New runner query

In article <[email hidden]>,

La Pedrera said:

I've been running for 3 weeks now and the groups I run
wiht runs 3 times a week (Tuesday, Thursday, Friday). I
started of on the first week running once, second week
twice and last week 3 times.

My question is regarding leg / knee soreness or stiffness.
- how much of it should I expect / how much is normal ?
- how long might it take for me to get my " runners
legs " ?

Typically, the day after teh runs my knees are a tad sore,
but if I am runing, no discomfort whatsoever.

La Pedrera,

You knees need to have the quads kneaded. Check out
www.mindfulness.com/of5.asp for some ideas on rolling out
your quads.

Some previous posts that might be of help in your thinking
about your knees, which most often than not is caused by
the quads or the hamstrings being too tight. There's a lot
to look at as you continue thta deals with your form and
style of running. It's about learning to run lighter, with
the foot landing more under your center of gravity and
with your foot landing more flat rather than landing on
the back of the heel.

Oz

Post #1

Quoted message said:

Hi, I am looking for a bit of advice, I have recently
started to increase my mileage (outdoors, mostly on road)
and in the last month or so my right knee has started to
give me grief after running. Its a generally feeling of
stiffness, slight discomfort not localized in any
particular place but across the whole knee. It is
particularly noticeable when going down stairs. It doesn't
give me any problems when running but a couple of hours
after/next day it seems to stiffen up. From what i've read
it seems to be "runners knee", I think I roll my right
foot more than the left but whether that is the root cause
I am not sure. I have read some of Ozzie's posts on this
or similar, (Sept 1st on rolling pins and facia release)
and that is a long term cure/relief, what I was wonder is
what I should do now?

Stop running for a couple of weeks. Cut down on my
running. Only run on soft surfaces or treadmills. Wear a
(neoprene) knee support. Seek medical advice. or none of
the above.   Any advice or help would be gratefully
received.

Neil Riddoch

Neil,

The rolling of the quads or massaging them is extremely
helpful in loosening the quad muscle so that it can relax
and release. Once that happens, the muscles relaxes and
takes the pressure off the tendon which then takes the
pressure off the knee.

As I've mentioned in other posts, during a training run, I
may stop 6 to 10 times to keep loosening the quads or
hamstrings.

Freeing the quads and working on the hamstring by using the
edge of a chair on them or sitting on a tennis ball or later
a baseball as a way to accupressure the hamstrings will do
more for the release of tendons around the knee.

Remember muscles relax and contract. If they only partially
relax, then the tendon has to take up that tension. Tendons
can stretch but they're not suppose to. It's the muscles
that relax and contract. Loosen that which is suppose to
relax and unnecessary tension to the tendon disappears.

If you are hitting on the back of the heel of the shoe as
you run, as in heel striker, then you are giving your joints
a beating. We're back to lifting the knees and marching in
place to see what running is about. If you are lifting your
center of gravity with each step more than is needed, then
you are coming back down to earth with a rather hard jar to
the knees. If you are landing on the back of the heel of the
shoe, they your running is a deceleration with each step
because of the overstride. Overstride defined as your foot
is landing in front of your center of gravity.

Don't know how much running you're doing so don't know if
it's about cutting down. Practice lifting the knees as in
marching in place and lean from the ankle. Land softly ball
then heel. As soon as the heel touches that triggers the
lifting of the other knee. The transition means you don't
have to jump up and down with each step.

I'm for running on uneven ground so as to get the foot/ankle
and leg able to do what they're suppose to do, adjust. I
have an article somewhere that talks about FSOS (Flat
Surface Overuse Syndrome)

We'll be watching as you play with finding out what works
for you. As mentioned many times. My stuff is folklore. If
it works for you, use
it. If it doesn't don't give it any (read: ZERO) energy and
find someone that does make sense and whose folklore
works for you. And when you find that, come back and
share it with me and the others so that we can educate
ourselves better. And finally when you can't find any
good folklore, create what works for you and then share
it back here at rec.running for all of us to play with
and test and experiment with.

Post #2

In article <[email hidden]>, "jerry

freedman said:

I wrote here a few weeks ago. I had just started running
and had a bad cramp in on calf(soleus) and achilles
tendinitis in the other. Ozzie replied (thanks again)along
with others who pointed me to Ozzie's stuff. I took a few
weeks off, did all the stretches, the marching exercises,
the "stirrup" squat and started back running (quietly).
The good news is that my calf problems are gone. Even with
the running my AT gets better everyday. The question I
have is about my quads. To run quietly ( as recommended)
with a ball heel strike I find I have to maintain a sort
of crouch. This is very hard on my quads. I am doing 2
minutes run/1 minute walk for 20 minutes and my quads can
barely take it. Is this something I work through? Is it a
technique problem? I already lift weights including squats
and deadlifts..

Jerry Freedman

Jerry,

The second picture at mindfulness.comof5.aspOpen ↗
where the people are on hands and feet with the quads across
the lower railing of a hand rail would be a way to massage
out the quads. You can use a rolling pin on the ground or a
piece of PVC, inch and a half or two inch. Most of the
weight is on the forearms and toes and knees. Gradually you
allow the railing/rolling pin/PVC to sink into the quads as
you relax and allow the quads to let go but taking weight
off the forearms and toes and knees. Do it lovingly and
gradually.

Then you can begin to roll forward or backward to work the
quads loose always keeping most of the weight on the feet,
knees and forearms/hands. Also continue to breathe and keep
the face and shoulders relaxed otherwise you're transferring
the tension from one part of your body to another. The
various techniques of breathing used in helping women
prepare for the birthing process follow the same idea of
keeping the body relaxed completely.

Regarding loosening up the hamstrings to release the quads
more, here's a piece from a previous post:

When sprinting, the quads(antagonists) get overstretched by
the hamstrings and gluts (agonists). I think I read in John
Jesse that hams and/or gluts account for 55% of the forward
thrust when sprinting. As they contract to catapult the
body forward, the quads and the illiopsoas are suppose to
be relaxing and stretching to their max. But if one's
posture is prone to slouching, then the psoas is shortened
and when overstretched as happens in sprinting, it
contracts or tightens to protect itself. That tightening
when joined by the Illiacus is deep and often one feels it
in the origin of the illiacus at the top of the illiac
crest of the pelvis. It may be the symptom of the
hamstrings having also tightened because they were strained
because the quads only partially relaxed when they quads
were to have been totally relaxed.

So. Get two baseballs. Or more gently start with two
tennis balls.

Sit on a chair and let the tennis balls rest in the middle
of the hamstring. Or you can go up toward the sitz bones of
the pelvis and roll across the tennis balls by moving your
body side to side over the tennis balls. Up toward the sitz
bones you'll feel yourself going over tendons, feels like
going over pieces of rope. Just sitting on the tennis balls
can act almost like an accupressure which can let the
muscle's tight spot or trigger point relax.

If you want to see how tight one of the hams is, sit on the
EDGE of the chair. One leg has the foot on the ground with
the foot under the knee, as most of of sit anyway. The other
leg is out straight resting on the heel. Close to a 45
degree angle between the ground and the leg. Stay slouched
and lift up that straightened leg. Now sit up straight so
that you are sitting on your sitz bones and the body is
erect. Now lift up your leg and you'll see that it's harder
to lift up the leg because the lifting muscle illiopsoas has
to now work against your hamstring which has been stretched
by you sitting up straight.

So work on the hamstrings and loosen them by massage with
the tennis balls and them gradually go to the baseballs.

Also practice sitting up a quarter of an inch straighter
during your day. Remind yourself to do it ten times a day
and know that it will only last 20 to 30 seconds each time.
This way you're not straining the hams or the psoas and
gradually you'll elongate those muscles. But they're much
easier to elongate if you're doing the rolling with the
tennis and/or baseballs when you're sitting at your desk at
your computer. Sit in a chair which has no back and no arms,
so that you are practicing the erect posture of a good
runner. Gradually as you stretch the hams, and psoas by good
posture, it will effect your running so that the tone of the
quads, hams and gluts will be such that their range of
motion doesn't restrict the range of motion of the agonist
muscle group(s).

Let us know how you continue to progress.

Ozzie Gontang Maintainer - rec.running FAQ faqs.orgbyOpen ↗
newsgroup/rec/rec.running.html Director, San Diego Marathon
Clinic, est. 1975

Mindful Running mindfulness.commr.aspOpen ↗

"La Pedrera" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

I am going to answer your questions from my own experience.
Keep in mind that you may be very different.

Quoted message said:

I've been running for 3 weeks now and the groups I run
wiht runs 3 times a week (Tuesday, Thursday, Friday). I
started of on the first week running once, second week
twice and last week 3 times.

I find 3 times a week to be too few. I get an enormous mood
elevation after the first 2 miles. I have grown to depend on
it to get through the day.

Quoted message said:

My question is regarding leg / knee soreness or stiffness.
- how much of it should I expect / how much is normal ?

This depend on my physical condition. I once restarted my
running after 1 month or two of layoff. After my first run,
my muscles were terribly sore for about a week. It was so
painful that I could hardly walk. It was probably because my
muscles were not able to get rid of the lactic acid quickly
enough. These days I expect to experience little or no sign
of soreness or stiffness on at least 6 days of the week. If
I train harder than that, I may need to skip days, and that
will have a depressive effect on me which may cause me to
skip more days. As for knee soreness, I become very
concerned if there is ANY soreness or swelling of my knees.
This is because knee injuries can lead to an abrupt end to
my running. If I experience any knee soreness I expect it to
be gone in 48 hours.

Quoted message said:

- how long might it take for me to get my " runners
legs " ?

If by "runners legs" you mean not sore for most days of the
week, I got my runners legs after I lost 35 lbs. It took me
several months.

Quoted message said:

Typically, the day after teh runs my knees are a tad sore,
but if I am runing, no discomfort whatsoever.

f you w

So, you want joggers legs, huh? I had no idea that the
splotchy, red, emaciated look was in right now.

[email hidden] (ManWorld42) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"La Pedrera" <[email hidden]> wrote in message ne-
ws:<[email hidden]-
s.com>...

I am going to answer your questions from my own
experience. Keep in mind that you may be very different.

Quoted message said:

I've been running for 3 weeks now and the groups I run
wiht runs 3 times a week (Tuesday, Thursday, Friday). I
started of on the first week running once, second week
twice and last week 3 times.

I find 3 times a week to be too few. I get an enormous
mood elevation after the first 2 miles. I have grown to
depend on it to get through the day.

How far? How fast?

Beginners should try not to extend their effort too quickly.
A good guideline I like to suggest is go by time. So for
example as you begin, you can go three times a week, but
each run only 10minutes long. You should run (or mix running
and walking) at a pace where you can still talk. When you
can run the entire time comfortably (and that includes not
being sore the next day), then begin extending the time a
little, say to 15minutes each run. When you get to 30minutes
each run you can consider adding more days. At that point
you would then also start to make different runs on
different days, one day a faster 30minute run, while another
day a longer than 30minute run.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My question is regarding leg / knee soreness or
stiffness.
- how much of it should I expect / how much is normal ?

Most likely you are going too far, too fast for you
condition. You body needs time to adjust.

Quoted message said:

This depend on my physical condition. I once restarted my
running after 1 month or two of layoff. After my first
run, my muscles were terribly sore for about a week. It
was so painful that I could hardly walk. It was probably
because my muscles were not able to get rid of the lactic
acid quickly enough.

If it was a week of soreness it was like NOT lactic acid.
Running produces micro-tears in the muscles. Running hard
when muscles are not ready can produce even more. Manworld,
you likely tried to run at your pre-layoff level and
suffered for it.

Quoted message said:

........... These days I expect to experience little
or no sign of soreness or stiffness on at least 6 days
of the week. If I train harder than that, I may need
to skip days, and that will have a depressive effect
on me which may cause me to skip more days. As for
knee soreness, I become very concerned if there is ANY
soreness or swelling of my knees. This is because knee
injuries can lead to an abrupt end to my running. If I
experience any knee soreness I expect it to be gone in
48 hours.

Meaning you take off two days if your knees are sore after a
run? Not a bad idea. But it does sound like you go hard in
every run. Try to put a little more variety in your training
runs. You may be surprised at the results.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- how long might it take for me to get my " runners
legs " ?

If by "runners legs" you mean not sore for most days of
the week, I got my runners legs after I lost 35 lbs. It
took me several months.

Quoted message said:

Typically, the day after teh runs my knees are a tad
sore, but if I am runing, no discomfort whatsoever.

Beginners must allow time for their whole body to adjust,
including the skeletal system. Assuming you moderate your
pace, you should be fine in a few weeks. But this is very
individual.

One last suggestion: make sure you have decent shoes.

Welcome to runnng and enjoy the run. Ed

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

f you w

With that tiny pecker you have John, chances are you could,
and he wouldn't even wake up.

New runners (or any sort of exercise) may have sore muscles
for two weeks until they used it. Joint soreness is a more
serious symptom that something is wrong. Let me guess: you
bought new shoes fitted by a professional running store
before starting running, didnt you? :-) [ Nine out of ten
times bad shoes are the problem. ]

actually, I did. 🙂

I went to Running Room (on the recomendations of the group)
and first pair was a Saucony. They bit me on the heel (right
foot) so I took them back, and now I'm on a brooks pair.

So far so good with the new pair.

"rick++" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

New runners (or any sort of exercise) may have sore
muscles for two weeks until they used it. Joint soreness
is a more serious symptom that

something

Quoted message said:

is wrong. Let me guess: you bought new shoes fitted by a
professional

running

Quoted message said:

store before starting running, didnt you? :-) [ Nine out
of ten times bad shoes are the problem. ]

Firstly, thanks for all the suggestions and information.

Quoted message said:

This depend on my physical condition. I once restarted my
running after 1 month or two of layoff. After my first
run, my muscles were terribly sore for about a week. It
was so painful that I could hardly walk. It was probably
because my muscles were not able to get rid of the lactic
acid quickly enough. These days I expect to experience
little or no sign of soreness or stiffness on at least 6
days of the week. If I train harder than that, I may need
to skip days, and that will have a depressive effect on me
which may cause me to skip more days. As for knee
soreness, I become very concerned if there is ANY soreness
or swelling of my knees. This is because knee injuries can
lead to an abrupt end to my running. If I experience any
knee soreness I expect it to be gone in 48 hours.

I'm currently trying the rolling of the quads on the current
week of runs, seems ok thus far. Seems that it is helping
quite a bit, but I want to keep up with it for a while to
get a complete feel. One thing is with the flexibility, it's
getting worse and worse (I'm rather flexible to begin wiht,
but it's decreasing with the running - so I have to stretch
much more).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If by "runners legs" you mean not sore for most days of
the week, I got my runners legs after I lost 35 lbs. It
took me several months.

I'll update in a few months then. 🙂

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Typically, the day after teh runs my knees are a tad
sore, but if I am runing, no discomfort whatsoever.

Exactly what I'm experiencing. I have no discomfort at all
if I'm running, but stairs are the big pain.

[email hidden] (Ed prochak) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (ManWorld42) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"La Pedrera" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]-
gers.com>...

I am going to answer your questions from my own
experience. Keep in mind that you may be very different.

Quoted message said:

I've been running for 3 weeks now and the groups I run
wiht runs 3 times a week (Tuesday, Thursday, Friday).
I started of on the first week running once, second
week twice and last week 3 times.

I find 3 times a week to be too few. I get an enormous
mood elevation after the first 2 miles. I have grown to
depend on it to get through the day.

How far? How fast?

I get a elevated sense of well-being after 2 miles at a 10
min/mile pace. 10 minutes is not enough for me.

Quoted message said:

Beginners should try not to extend their effort too
quickly. A good

That is a good suggestion.

Quoted message said:

guideline I like to suggest is go by time. So for example
as you begin, you can go three times a week, but each run
only 10minutes long. You should run (or mix running and
walking) at a pace where you can still talk. When you can
run the entire time comfortably (and that includes not
being sore the next day), then begin extending the time a
little, say to 15minutes each run. When you get to
30minutes each run you can consider adding more days. At
that point you would then also start to make different
runs on different days, one day a faster 30minute run,
while another day a longer than 30minute run.

Quoted message said:

This is trite. How did you come up with such a scheme? 10
minutes? Will that produce any signficant health benefits?
Everything I read suggested at least 20 minutes. If you
can't run 20 minutes you run and walk as you suggested.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My question is regarding leg / knee soreness or
stiffness.
- how much of it should I expect / how much is
normal ?

Most likely you are going too far, too fast for you
condition. You body needs time to adjust.

One thing a beginner needs to figure out is whether his/her
bottle neck lies. If the person is very overweight. It may
be a good idea to try to bike or swim instead. This is
because his/her joints may not ever adjust to the running
activity until the excess pounds come off.

Another thing to determine is his/her goal. For me, I don't
get sore if I run 5 miles or less, but if I were to run 7
miles or more I will get sore. But does anyone really want
to run 7 miles? That is a personal question. For me, the
answer is I don't want to be sore more than one day a week
so I adjust my intensity accordingly. Someone may want to
run harder than that, but I don't think it is worth it for
me because I risk injuries. Incidentally, in the more than 2
years I have run actively I only have to stop running due to
injury for 2 days. The lesson I learned from that injury was
not to sprint if I were not used to sprinting. The slight
injury to my left hamstring healed in 2 days.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This depend on my physical condition. I once restarted
my running after 1 month or two of layoff. After my
first run, my muscles were terribly sore for about a
week. It was so painful that I could hardly walk. It was
probably because my muscles were not able to get rid of
the lactic acid quickly enough.

If it was a week of soreness it was like NOT lactic acid.
Running produces micro-tears in the muscles. Running hard
when muscles are not ready can produce even more.
Manworld, you likely tried to run at your pre-layoff level
and suffered for it.

Probably so. I remembered the run was done at a 8 min/mile
pace for 2 miles. Felt great during the run....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

........... These days I expect to experience little
or no sign of soreness or stiffness on at least 6
days of the week. If I train harder than that, I may
need to skip days, and that will have a depressive
effect on me which may cause me to skip more days.
As for knee soreness, I become very concerned if
there is ANY soreness or swelling of my knees. This
is because knee injuries can lead to an abrupt end
to my running. If I experience any knee soreness I
expect it to be gone in 48 hours.

Meaning you take off two days if your knees are sore after
a run? Not a bad idea. But it does sound like you go hard
in every run. Try to put a little more variety in your
training runs. You may be surprised at the results.

How did you come to that conclusion? You may be confusing my
post with that from the original poster. I have given you no
information on how much or how fast I run. The only
information I provided was how I react pain if any from my
runs. When I wrote that I aim to have absolutely no pain in
6 out of 7 days a week, it does not mean I run 6 or 7 days a
week. All it means is that I will do no more than 1 very
hard day a week that may produce discomfort after the run.
It is in my opinion that regularity is more important than
intensity for people who run for health. I disagree on your
fiat statement about variety. It all depends on whether you
are trying to improve your running performance. If I were
not interested in improving, I don't need any hard days. I
will just run 3.5 miles at an easy pace most days of the
week. That is adequate to keep most people healthy.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- how long might it take for me to get my " runners
legs " ?

If by "runners legs" you mean not sore for most days of
the week, I got my runners legs after I lost 35 lbs. It
took me several months.

Quoted message said:

Typically, the day after teh runs my knees are a tad
sore, but if I am runing, no discomfort whatsoever.

Beginners must allow time for their whole body to adjust,
including the skeletal system. Assuming you moderate your
pace, you should be fine in a few weeks. But this is very
individual.

One last suggestion: make sure you have decent shoes.

Ah shoes! I tried the expensive ($70+) New Balance and I
hated it. I use a cheap pair of Spaldings Anton from
Target at $20 a pair and loved it. Your mileage may vary.
I run very lightly, a result from years of Karate and
Aikido training.

I have come to the conclusion that a lot of runners are
terrible consumers, equating price with quality. I suggest
people become aware of the condition of their legs, and use
their awareness and not the price tag to choose their shoes.

Quoted message said:

Welcome to runnng and enjoy the run. Ed

[email hidden] (ManWorld42) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Ed prochak) wrote in
message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (ManWorld42) wrote in message ne-
ws:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"La Pedrera" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden].-
rogers.com>...

I am going to answer your questions from my own
experience. Keep in mind that you may be very
different.

> I've been running for 3 weeks now and the groups I
> run wiht runs 3 times a week (Tuesday, Thursday,
> Friday). I started of on the first week running
> once, second week twice and last week 3 times.
>
I find 3 times a week to be too few. I get an enormous
mood elevation after the first 2 miles. I have grown
to depend on it to get through the day.

How far? How fast?

I get a elevated sense of well-being after 2 miles at a 10
min/mile pace. 10 minutes is not enough for me.

Quoted message said:

Beginners should try not to extend their effort too
quickly. A good

That is a good suggestion.

Quoted message said:

guideline I like to suggest is go by time. So for
example as you begin, you can go three times a week, but
each run only 10minutes long. You should run (or mix
running and walking) at a pace where you can still talk.
When you can run the entire time comfortably (and that
includes not being sore the next day), then begin
extending the time a little, say to 15minutes each run.
When you get to 30minutes each run you can consider
adding more days. At that point you would then also
start to make different runs on different days, one day
a faster 30minute run, while another day a longer than
30minute run.

Quoted message said:

This is trite. How did you come up with such a scheme? 10
minutes? Will that produce any signficant health benefits?
Everything I read suggested at least 20 minutes. If you
can't run 20 minutes you run and walk as you suggested.

Having a goal that beginners can easily reach sets up a
positive feedback. When they cannot run for even 10minutes,
getting them to keep going for 20 on their first runs sets
up a tough goal.

For advice, I try to err on the conservative/safe side. Yes
the best benefit comes from 20minutes or more, at least
three times a week. Walking for even 10minutes does help.
It's the repetition over many days that seems to build up
the benefit.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> My question is regarding leg / knee soreness or
> stiffness.
> - how much of it should I expect / how much is
> normal ?

Most likely you are going too far, too fast for you
condition. You body needs time to adjust.

One thing a beginner needs to figure out is whether
his/her bottle neck lies. If the person is very
overweight. It may be a good idea to try to bike or swim
instead. This is because his/her joints may not ever
adjust to the running activity until the excess pounds
come off.

Another thing to determine is his/her goal. For me, I
don't get sore if I run 5 miles or less, but if I were to
run 7 miles or more I will get sore. But does anyone
really want to run 7 miles? That is a personal question.
For me, the answer is I don't want to be sore more than
one day a week so I adjust my intensity accordingly.
Someone may want to run harder than that, but I don't
think it is worth it for me because I risk injuries.
Incidentally, in the more than 2 years I have run actively
I only have to stop running due to injury for 2 days. The
lesson I learned from that injury was not to sprint if I
were not used to sprinting. The slight injury to my left
hamstring healed in 2 days.

Good general advice. As the saying goes: we are each an
experiment of one.

FWIW, I tend to both give and take advice conservatively.
I've managed to run with no runnning related time off for
about 12years now.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This depend on my physical condition. I once restarted
my running after 1 month or two of layoff. After my
first run, my muscles were terribly sore for about a
week. It was so painful that I could hardly walk. It
was probably because my muscles were not able to get
rid of the lactic acid quickly enough.

If it was a week of soreness it was like NOT lactic
acid. Running produces micro-tears in the muscles.
Running hard when muscles are not ready can produce even
more. Manworld, you likely tried to run at your pre-
layoff level and suffered for it.

Probably so. I remembered the run was done at a 8 min/mile
pace for 2 miles. Felt great during the run....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

........... These days I expect to experience
little or no sign of soreness or stiffness on at
least 6 days of the week. If I train harder than
that, I may need to skip days, and that will have
a depressive effect on me which may cause me to
skip more days. As for knee soreness, I become
very concerned if there is ANY soreness or
swelling of my knees. This is because knee
injuries can lead to an abrupt end to my running.
If I experience any knee soreness I expect it to
be gone in 48 hours.

Meaning you take off two days if your knees are sore
after a run? Not a bad idea. But it does sound like you
go hard in every run. Try to put a little more variety
in your training runs. You may be surprised at the
results.

How did you come to that conclusion? You may be confusing
my post with that from the original poster. I have given
you no information on how much or how fast I run. The only
information I provided was how I react pain if any from my
runs. When I wrote that I aim to have absolutely no pain
in 6 out of 7 days a week, it does not mean I run 6 or 7
days a week.

I did read it as meaning you run 6days or more per week.

Quoted message said:

... All it means is that I will do no more than 1 very
hard day a week that may produce discomfort after the run.
It is in my opinion that regularity is more important than
intensity for people who run for health. I disagree on
your fiat statement about variety.

But is sounds like you incorporate the variety to a small
extent at least. What I meant was, for example, for a three
times per week runner, you might have one short easy run,
one short hard(ie fast) run, and one long easy run. The
regularity is getting out there three days per week
consistantly. Don't you agree?

Quoted message said:

It all depends on whether you are trying to improve your
running performance. If I were not interested in
improving, I don't need any hard days. I will just run 3.5
miles at an easy pace most days of the week. That is
adequate to keep most people healthy.

OR 30minutes three days per week. Again time here is a
little better measure.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> - how long might it take for me to get my " runners
> legs " ?
>
If by "runners legs" you mean not sore for most days
of the week, I got my runners legs after I lost 35
lbs. It took me several months.

> Typically, the day after teh runs my knees are a tad
> sore, but if I am runing, no discomfort whatsoever.

Beginners must allow time for their whole body to
adjust, including the skeletal system. Assuming you
moderate your pace, you should be fine in a few weeks.
But this is very individual.

One last suggestion: make sure you have decent shoes.

Ah shoes! I tried the expensive ($70+) New Balance and I
hated it. I use a cheap pair of Spaldings Anton from
Target at $20 a pair and loved it. Your mileage may vary.
I run very lightly, a result from years of Karate and
Aikido training.

I have come to the conclusion that a lot of runners are
terrible consumers, equating price with quality. I
suggest people become aware of the condition of their
legs, and use their awareness and not the price tag to
choose their shoes.

good advice.

All I would add is something I have mentioned other times
on the shoe topic: there is no such thing as a break-in
period for running shoes, IMHO. If they don't feel right
and comfortable just out of the box, don't buy them.

Enjoy the run. Ed