New Record

"Joshua Goldberg" skrev...

Quoted message said:

I like his philosophy about riding and was a tad confused at him saying it took him 2 years and
20,000 miles to get his bent muscles after leaving a
DF....

Only 2000 miles. Guess thats why it took so long.

M.

Mikael Seierup said:

Only 2000 miles. Guess thats why it took so long.

Quite. After six weeks I was well in the groove and now, nine months and over 2,500 miles down the
line, the 'bent feels right natural. Even though it was off the road for six weeks of that time.

Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.comOpen ↗ Advance
notice: ADSL service in process of transfer to a new ISP. Obviously there will be a week of downtime
between the engineer removing the BT service and the same engineer connecting the same equipment on
the same line in the same exchange and billing it to the new ISP.

What the report failed to mention was that he was beat by 18 DF riders, one of which beat him by 75
miles which means the guy was ~4 hours ahead of him at the 383 mile point. This was obviously a flat
course. Where were all the recumbent riders that say they are so much faster than DFs when the race
contains both types of bikes? I know this ride didn't have all the best riders, DF or recumbent, but
this guy broke a recumbent record in a race that's been going on for 20 years. Of course this is
anecdotal evidence, but it kind of shows that recumbents can't beat DFs in a road race. It's not
even close.

Gene

"Joshua Goldberg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

That was a really good story to read. This guy breaks a record doing only
15.9 mph on an unfaired stock tadpole. I like his philosophy about riding and was a tad confused
at him saying it took him 2 years and 20,000 miles to get his bent muscles after leaving a
DF....it took me 8 weeks....but I was a lot younger than age 45. It would

be

Quoted message said:

a good article to show someone who is Unbent and thinking about making the change to
bents...especially of the 3 wheeled variety.
-----------------------
"Mitch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I just noticed this is Google News. I don't remember it being mentioned

here:

Quoted message said:

press-citizen.com061703cyclist.htmOpen ↗

Does anybody know Steve?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Eugene Cottrell
[B]Of course this is anecdotal evidence, but it kind of shows that recumbents can't beat DFs in a road race. It's not
even close.

Although I was disappointed that recumbents didn't have a better showing, I have a different take on it than you do, Gene.

I see a 45 year old on a TRIKE beating over 90% of all riders! I'd like to see the ages of the first 18 riders. My suspicion is that most would be in their late 20's or early 30's. Age matters.

Dennis

Eugene Cottrell said:

What the report failed to mention was that he was beat by 18 DF riders, one of which beat him by
75 miles which means the guy was ~4 hours ahead of him at the 383 mile point.

I note that even the overall winner of this event was some seventy-five miles behind the current
RTTC 24 hour record.

Quoted message said:

Where were all the recumbent riders that say they are so much faster than DFs when the race
contains both types of bikes?

Switzerland, I think.

Quoted message said:

Of course this is anecdotal evidence, but it kind of shows that recumbents can't beat DFs in a
road race. It's not even close.

Since it requires only one example to disprove the point, the above is Clearly Bollocks. A recent
post from Marc Tauss on the 'bent Rider Online message board tell us:

"On June 22th, the "Classique Genevoise" (a racing bike event near Geneva Switzerland) has been
competed. For the first time, 23 recumbents took part in this race... And you know what : the First
5 are all recumbents :

1) Werner De Hamer (M5 Carbon low racer)
2) Seppe Hoozgaad (M5 Cro-mo low racer)
3) Thomas Schott (Razz-Fazz)
4) Charles Henry (Birk Comet)
5) Vincent Pfister (Baron X-Low)

Werner win by 9 minutes over the first racing bike... Quite a bit on a less than 2 hours race quite
hilly (80 km 600 meter elevation)."

Results at classiquegenevoise.ch2003.pdfOpen ↗

We might also note that 4th place man Charles Henry covered 929 km / 577 miles in the 2002 running
of the "24 Hours world cycle Race Schötz 2002" on a Birk Comet. Story (in German)
petrix.dreifels.chpage.aspOpen ↗

Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================

FWIW there should have been another zero added to that 2,000 mile figure. Here is his own reply in
another newsgroup: ihpva.org025902.htmlOpen ↗

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Dave Larrington

BEugene Cottrell said:

What the report failed to mention was that he was beat by 18 DF riders, one of which beat him by
75 miles which means the guy was ~4 hours ahead of him at the 383 mile point.

I note that even the overall winner of this event was some seventy-five miles behind the current
RTTC 24 hour record.

Quoted message said:

Where were all the recumbent riders that say they are so much faster than DFs when the race
contains both types of bikes?

Switzerland, I think.

Quoted message said:

Of course this is anecdotal evidence, but it kind of shows that recumbents can't beat DFs in a
road race. It's not even close.

Since it requires only one example to disprove the point, the above is Clearly Bollocks. A recent
post from Marc Tauss on the 'bent Rider Online message board tell us:

"On June 22th, the "Classique Genevoise" (a racing bike event near Geneva Switzerland) has been
competed. For the first time, 23 recumbents took part in this race... And you know what : the First
5 are all recumbents :

1) Werner De Hamer (M5 Carbon low racer)
2) Seppe Hoozgaad (M5 Cro-mo low racer)
3) Thomas Schott (Razz-Fazz)
4) Charles Henry (Birk Comet)
5) Vincent Pfister (Baron X-Low)

Werner win by 9 minutes over the first racing bike... Quite a bit on a less than 2 hours race quite
hilly (80 km 600 meter elevation)."

Results at classiquegenevoise.ch2003.pdfOpen ↗

We might also note that 4th place man Charles Henry covered 929 km / 577 miles in the 2002 running
of the "24 Hours world cycle Race Schötz 2002" on a Birk Comet. Story (in German)
petrix.dreifels.chpage.aspOpen ↗

Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
=========================================================== [/B]

IMHO comparing apples to oranges (18 to 30 YO's to 30 to 70+ YO's) does not do the equation justice.

I say, start allowing recumbents into the sanctioned races with types like Lance and Flabio😄 , and you will develop a cadre of competively fit recumbent riders who will dominate the fields.

Where then will be the DF trolls who frequent this forum?

Who holds the hpv bike speed records?

Why were recumbents banned from racing in the bike races?

Mitch said:

I just noticed this is Google News. I don't remember it being mentioned here:

press-citizen.com061703cyclist.htmOpen ↗

Does anybody know Steve?

The results for all riders are posted at n24hc.orgresults.htmlOpen ↗ . What's great, is
that a 45 year old man on a recumbent was faster in this race than all men from 25 to 34 years of
age. Within his own age group, 45 to 49, he came in a very respectable 7th for both DF and bent
riders. As a 48 year old male bent rider, I take great comfort in these results. Based on the
results of this race, one would have to conclude that 45-49 year old men are faster than 25-34 year
old men. ;-)

But seriously, if you go back through the results for this race from previous years, men 45 and
above have consistently done very well compared to younger men. I think that says more about the
types of riders this race attracts, than actual differences in performance between riders of
different ages. Or different types of bikes.

The reports I heard about this ride was that it was indeed quite hilly. Maybe not mountainous but
hilly. Also the roads were pretty bad (lots of chip-n-seal) which makes the small wheeled trike
accomplishment even more impressive. I still would like to see some better showing from recumbents
but that requires much more than just a bike. Craig

speedracer <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Originally posted by Eugene Cottrell Of course this is anecdotal evidence, but it kind of shows
that recumbents can't beat DFs in a road race. It's not even close.

Although I was disappointed that recumbents didn't have a better showing, I have a different take
on it than you do, Gene.

I see a 45 year old on a TRIKE beating over 90% of all riders! I'd like to see the ages of the
first 18 riders. My suspicion is that most would be in their late 20's or early 30's. Age matters.

Dennis

g19glock1 said:

IMHO comparing apples to oranges (18 to 30 YO's to 30 to 70+ YO's) does not do the equation
justice.

Er, which category does that put Mr. Armstrong (born September 18, 1971) in, then?

Quoted message said:

Where then will be the DF trolls who frequent this forum?

My recumbent is a quadruple triangle "double diamond"[1] frame. No, really, this is not a troll.
Many cyclists reach their best in their 30's.

Quoted message said:

Who holds the hpv bike speed records?

Google.

Quoted message said:

Why were recumbents banned from racing in the bike races?

Politics and Frenchmen.

[1] A British beer heavily advertised in the 1970's.
--
Jim Price

jimprice.dsl.pipex.comjimprice.dsl.pipex.comOpen ↗

Conscientious objection is hard work in an economic war.

Aye!.

"John" skrev...

Quoted message said:

FWIW there should have been another zero added to that 2,000 mile figure. Here is his own reply in
another newsgroup: ihpva.org025902.htmlOpen ↗

Aha. Well he sounds horribly fit so maybe that was what he meant.

M.

" Of course this is anecdotal evidence,

Quoted message said:

but it kind of shows that recumbents can't beat DFs in a road race. It's not even close.

The logics you explain here are flawed. Nothing have been shown except that the winners
rode farther.

What you say is similar if my footbal team wins against the team of my nipotes who are young and
then to say that they lose because they have more worse shoes.

There is some talk of this riding on the bentrideronline messages and it talks of how hilly it is
this course and so of course a heavy machine like a tricycle will do not as well.

Also if you are reading the story you see that this man train very little only riding to work and
back and a couple of longer rides. I would be betting that the winners have been training much much
more. It is not possible to do so many distances as they have done without training very hard and be
strong enough to never get off the bike.

This means not that the winners don't deserve the praise but to compare the effort of another who
does not ride as much is to flow the logic.

I will believe many of this men on the recumbent would never even try the race without because of
the pain of the upright. If we take the winner of the upright bicicle and teach him on a recumbent I
think we will see him go just as far or farther very soon.

How is this a national record?

Easy Racers still holds the national record I believe.

August 1 1994 24 Hour Record 623.44 miles in 24 hrs.
Mr. Myhee Eureka CA

Almost double this guys supposed record... Maybe they mean unfaired?

Axel Fehlau holds the world record at 634 miles in 24 hours

"Mitch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I just noticed this is Google News. I don't remember it being mentioned

here:

Quoted message said:

press-citizen.com061703cyclist.htmOpen ↗

Does anybody know Steve?

OK. I am retracting my "Age matters" statement. After looking at the actual results and age groups, I have no leg to stand on. Of course, I now have to figure out what has happened to me over the last 10 years. I ride more and work out more than I did 10 years ago, but no way could I ride as fast and far as I did back then.

I now find myself looking for excuses...maybe the 3 hernia surgeries?...2 knee surgeries?...How in the heck would they slow me down?

Oh, I know, my back tire must be flat 🙂

Dennis

What type of bike holds the HPV record is of no real world consequence. In a real world race on
hilly public roads (i.e road race), recumbents do not stand a chance against DFs given equal rider
abilities. I was forced to ride a recumbent last year and after working like a dog for months, I was
not able to come anywhere near my performance on my DF. I am in excellent shape, ride in the top 20%
of the club I belong to with 600+ members, average 5-8,000 miles per year, have ridden across the
USA and have been riding bicycles for years. There are experienced contributors to this group that
know that recumbents can not equal the performance of a DF on hilly terrain.

Recumbents are not allowed in UCI racing because they don't fit the design requirements established
to maintain the integrity of the records kept. There are many DF designs that are disallowed also.
It's a myth perpetrated only by recumbent riders that it's because of some perception that
recumbents could beat a DF, that's ridiculous! Once the mountain stages of the Tour De France began,
any recumbent would be disqualified for coming in too far behind the leader, anyway. Certainly, on
some of the flattest stages and possibly the time trials, recumbents would fair quite well.

Even if recumbents were faster, why would that cause the UCI to ban them? Everyone could ride them
and it wouldn't make any difference. The reason, of course is tradition and record comparisons. It's
exactly the same in many major sports such as baseball and golf. These sports have rules on ball
size, weight, shape, cover material, bats/clubs, etc, etc. Is it because they're "afraid" of
aluminum bats? Of course not, but they try to maintain the game as it is.

It would be a simple thing for recumbents to organize their own international races. All they need
is to do it, but who would care?

All of that said, I should probably just forget it. I occasionally let the bent nuts suck me into
this discussion and it never gets resolved to anyones satisfaction. I here-by vow to stay out of
this "which is faster" argument from now on, just as the smarter contributors to the group do. I am
not an advocate for DFs and I think everyone should ride the type of bike they like best, for
whatever reason. Riding is good for the heart and the soul whether you're upright or laid back.

--
Gene O _ \ _/\,%) (*)--(*) Bachetta - Strada et/~gene8

"g19glock1" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I say, start allowing recumbents into the sanctioned races with types like Lance and Flabio😄 ,
and you will develop a cadre of competively fit recumbent riders who will dominate the fields.

Where then will be the DF trolls who frequent this forum?

Who holds the hpv bike speed records?

Why were recumbents banned from racing in the bike races?

--
G19, Giant and a V-Rex

- - - - Derek Burley Canto, modified

Quoted message said:

--------------------------<

Posted via cyclingforums.com cyclingforums.comcyclingforums.comOpen ↗

John <[email hidden]> wrote:
: n24hc.orgresults.htmlOpen ↗ . What's great, is that a 45 year old man on a recumbent
: was faster in this race than all men from 25 to 34 years of age. Within his own age group, 45 to
: 49, he came in a very respectable 7th for both DF and bent riders. As a 48 year old male bent
: rider, I take great comfort in these results. Based on the results of this race, one would have to
: conclude that 45-49 year old men are faster than 25-34 year old men. ;-)

: But seriously, if you go back through the results for this race from previous years, men 45 and
: above have consistently done very well compared to younger men. I think that says more about the
: types of riders this race attracts, than actual differences in performance between riders of
: different ages. Or different types of bikes.

Those 40+ granpas have had the opportunity to have a few decades of hard endurance training. Things
like that matter in ultrariding ;p

--
Risto Varanka | helsinki.fihpv.htmlOpen ↗ varis at no spam please iki fi

Quoted message said:

My suspicion is that most would be in their late 20's or early 30's. Age matters.

Not always. One afternoon a few weeks ago the wife and I were out riding home from the supermarket
-- she on her DF and I on my Vivo. We came upon a group of teenage boys riding DFs. They gave the
standard salute, "Wow! Kewl bike, mister!" Then they decided to show off their speed. They took off
ahead of us at full tilt. My sweetheart noticed the evil grin on my face as I started to pump. In a
couple of blocks I passed them like they were standing still. My top speed was only about 26 mph at
the time -- pretty good for a slightly overweight, bald guy in his 50's. :^)

I realize this was no real match and I wouldn't try to beat an "A" rider on his DF. The point is it
often matters more who is riding than what they are riding. I could also have beaten those kids on
my DF, but it wouldn't have been as impressive since the DF isn't pulling a trailer full of
groceries.