New Mavic r-sys wheelset

sheldon said:

Saw them at my LBS this week, the employees have been singing their
praises as they have been using a demo set to try them out. They are
supposed to be very light, very stiff, but not particularly harsh to
ride. The rims are pretty low profile so not much aero benefit to
them. They are also (yikes!) $1400 for the set. Anyone own them yet or
had a chance to try them out? Would appreciate any feedback...thanks

I got to test ride them for a bit. I found them to be quite stiff and
very responsive. 1400 grams for $1400 seems a touch steep but it is
new technology. I would say they are specificly a climbing wheel. I
would think that the aerodynamics of these wheels would have to be
pretty poor when you are dealing with low profile rims and 4mm round
spokes. The other thing I was a little skeptical about was how the
aluminum drive spokes would hold up since they are now at lower
tensions. The reason for the lower tensions was so they could make a
lighter rim and because the carbon spokes could handle compression,
but aluminum spokes can't. So in theory radial loads could
significantly accelerate the fatigue of the drive spokes since they
will not be able to handle compressive loads. Also, don't nick the
carbon spokes or else they will be severely weakened. According to
our mavic rep. they have already had a few cases of broken carbon
spokes which they are still trying to determine whether or not they
were caused from nicks in the spokes. I would wait a year before
investing in these wheels.

steve said:

sheldon said:

Saw them at my LBS this week, the employees have been singing their
praises as they have been using a demo set to try them out. They are
supposed to be very light, very stiff, but not particularly harsh to
ride. The rims are pretty low profile so not much aero benefit to
them. They are also (yikes!) $1400 for the set. Anyone own them yet or
had a chance to try them out? Would appreciate any feedback...thanks

I got to test ride them for a bit. I found them to be quite stiff and
very responsive. 1400 grams for $1400 seems a touch steep but it is
new technology. I would say they are specificly a climbing wheel. I
would think that the aerodynamics of these wheels would have to be
pretty poor when you are dealing with low profile rims and 4mm round
spokes. The other thing I was a little skeptical about was how the
aluminum drive spokes would hold up since they are now at lower
tensions. The reason for the lower tensions was so they could make a
lighter rim and because the carbon spokes could handle compression,
but aluminum spokes can't. So in theory radial loads could
significantly accelerate the fatigue of the drive spokes since they
will not be able to handle compressive loads.

compression doesn't cause fatigue, tension does. if tension is lower,
fatigue will be less, other things being equal.

Quoted message said:

Also, don't nick the
carbon spokes or else they will be severely weakened. According to
our mavic rep. they have already had a few cases of broken carbon
spokes which they are still trying to determine whether or not they
were caused from nicks in the spokes. I would wait a year before
investing in these wheels.

so keep them in their bags when not using them - just like mavic say.
that's why the bags come with the wheels! if you nick steel or aluminum
spokes, they can break too!

"steve" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I found them to be quite stiff and very responsive.

How did you determine their stiffness? Do you feel the other wheels you
ride flexing?

What do you mean by responsive? What does a more "responsive" wheel feel
like? What does a less "responsive" wheel feel like?

I have no trouble understanding what $1400 means.

BobT

BobT said:

"steve" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I found them to be quite stiff and very responsive.

How did you determine their stiffness? Do you feel the other wheels you
ride flexing?

What do you mean by responsive? What does a more "responsive" wheel feel
like? What does a less "responsive" wheel feel like?

I have no trouble understanding what $1400 means.

BobT

Dear Bob,

The wheel is very stiff and formal and addresses potential buyers as
"Mr. Smith" or "Sir" without making eye contact or smiling.

It refuses to talk to other wheels about lateral deflection or weight.

But it is quite responsive when a potential buyer asks "How much do
you cost?" and becomes positively chatty about sales tax.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

sheldon said:

Saw them at my LBS this week, the employees have been singing their
praises as they have been using a demo set to try them out. They are
supposed to be very light, very stiff, but not particularly harsh to
ride. The rims are pretty low profile so not much aero benefit to
them. They are also (yikes!) $1400 for the set. Anyone own them yet or
had a chance to try them out? Would appreciate any feedback...thanks

Strong, complient, stiff, yet comfy, black yet white..expensive!!!

Employess singing their praises, not surprised since they enjoy gettin
paid regularly...

steve said:

sheldon said:

Saw them at my LBS this week, the employees have been singing their
praises as they have been using a demo set to try them out. They are
supposed to be very light, very stiff, but not particularly harsh to
ride. The rims are pretty low profile so not much aero benefit to
them. They are also (yikes!) $1400 for the set. Anyone own them yet or
had a chance to try them out? Would appreciate any feedback...thanks

I got to test ride them for a bit. I found them to be quite stiff and
very responsive. 1400 grams for $1400 seems a touch steep but it is
new technology. I would say they are specificly a climbing wheel.

How about this..DT hubs, Velocity rims, DT spokes..1450 grams and 1/2
the price...climbing wheels also.

I

Quoted message said:

would think that the aerodynamics of these wheels would have to be
pretty poor when you are dealing with low profile rims and 4mm round
spokes. The other thing I was a little skeptical about was how the
aluminum drive spokes would hold up since they are now at lower
tensions. The reason for the lower tensions was so they could make a
lighter rim and because the carbon spokes could handle compression,
but aluminum spokes can't. So in theory radial loads could
significantly accelerate the fatigue of the drive spokes since they
will not be able to handle compressive loads. Also, don't nick the
carbon spokes or else they will be severely weakened. According to
our mavic rep. they have already had a few cases of broken carbon
spokes which they are still trying to determine whether or not they
were caused from nicks in the spokes. I would wait a year before
investing in these wheels.

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 10:40:20 -0500, "BobT"

Quoted message said:

"steve" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I found them to be quite stiff and very responsive.

Quoted message said:

How did you determine their stiffness? Do you feel the other wheels you
ride flexing?

Quoted message said:

What do you mean by responsive? What does a more "responsive" wheel feel
like? What does a less "responsive" wheel feel like?

Quoted message said:

I have no trouble understanding what $1400 means.

Quoted message said:

BobT

Dear Bob,

The wheel is very stiff and formal and addresses potential buyers as
"Mr. Smith" or "Sir" without making eye contact or smiling.

It refuses to talk to other wheels about lateral deflection or weight.

But it is quite responsive when a potential buyer asks "How much do
you cost?" and becomes positively chatty about sales tax.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Well said.......

Quoted message said:

How about this..DT hubs, Velocity rims, DT spokes..1450 grams and 1/2
the price...climbing wheels also.

I think the classic wheels are doomed. Boutique wheels have taken over.
The question I have is why haven't the classic suppliers given us the parts
to build boutique wheels (where is the Sun scandium rim that was promised
years ago? lighter hubs? stronger or alloy spokes available to wheel
builders?) Without the boutique parts classic wheel builders will go the
way of the dino.

jim beam said:

steve said:

sheldon said:

Saw them at my LBS this week, the employees have been singing their
praises as they have been using a demo set to try them out. They are
supposed to be very light, very stiff, but not particularly harsh to
ride. The rims are pretty low profile so not much aero benefit to
them. They are also (yikes!) $1400 for the set. Anyone own them yet or
had a chance to try them out? Would appreciate any feedback...thanks

Quoted message said:

I got to test ride them for a bit. I found them to be quite stiff and
very responsive. 1400 grams for $1400 seems a touch steep but it is
new technology. I would say they are specificly a climbing wheel. I
would think that the aerodynamics of these wheels would have to be
pretty poor when you are dealing with low profile rims and 4mm round
spokes. The other thing I was a little skeptical about was how the
aluminum drive spokes would hold up since they are now at lower
tensions. The reason for the lower tensions was so they could make a
lighter rim and because the carbon spokes could handle compression,
but aluminum spokes can't. So in theory radial loads could
significantly accelerate the fatigue of the drive spokes since they
will not be able to handle compressive loads.

compression doesn't cause fatigue, tension does. if tension is lower,
fatigue will be less, other things being equal.

Quoted message said:

Also, don't nick the
carbon spokes or else they will be severely weakened. According to
our mavic rep. they have already had a few cases of broken carbon
spokes which they are still trying to determine whether or not they
were caused from nicks in the spokes. I would wait a year before
investing in these wheels.

so keep them in their bags when not using them - just like mavic say.
that's why the bags come with the wheels! if you nick steel or aluminum
spokes, they can break too!

I had some 32 spoked wheels a while back. The dérailleur's adjustment
was off so, the chain went into the spokes a few times. Once I checked
the wheels and I noticed that the chain had worked a pattern around
all the spokes at the point where the chain was hitting them.

I rode those wheels for ages in different frames. The spokes were all
messed up. Once. I broke a spoke while I was riding. I remember
because i rode the bike into a bike shop and they replaces the spoke.
The wheels had one smooth spoke and the rest had an indentation.

I figured that the spokes wouldn't go out all at once and I kept
riding the wheels. Eventually, in 95 I had a bad bike car accident and
the wheel, spokes, frame and everything else was totaled.

Point of the story is that I'm not sure about aluminum or carbon
spokes. However, regular double butted 14-15-14 spokes will sustain a
lot more than a nick before they brake.

Andres

DougA said:

lighter hubs? stronger or alloy spokes available to wheel
builders?) Without the boutique parts classic wheel builders will go the
way of the dino.

Oh... I think this came close to happening a few years ago, but custom
builds won't be *extinct* anytime soon. Peter's build is actually
pretty conservative. With Tune hubs and lighter spokes you can get in
the low 1300g range and still be real close to half the price of the
Mavic wheels. There will always be a few people who can appreciate
that sort of logic.

BTW... aluminum spokes are just fat and create more air drag.

jim beam said:

so keep them in their bags when not using them - just like mavic say.
that's why the bags come with the wheels! if you nick steel or aluminum
spokes, they can break too!

When I first heard about Mavic R-SYS wheels, I thought, "they're
Mavic, they're a totally inappropriate use of CFRP, they're a
horrible, horrible idea-- I bet jb would really dig these!" Looks
like I was right.

I predict that nothing good will come of these. I wouldn't wish them
on anybody!

Chalo

Ron Ruff said:

BTW... aluminum spokes are just fat and create more air drag.

I think we've figured out one way in which hollow carbon-plastic
spokes are certain to excel. 16 CFRP spokes with the drag of 48 steel
ones. That's what I call performance!

Chalo

DougA said:

Quoted message said:

How about this..DT hubs, Velocity rims, DT spokes..1450 grams and 1/2
the price...climbing wheels also.

I think the classic wheels are doomed. Boutique wheels have taken over.
The question I have is why haven't the classic suppliers given us the parts
to build boutique wheels (where is the Sun scandium rim that was promised
years ago? lighter hubs? stronger or alloy spokes available to wheel
builders?) Without the boutique parts classic wheel builders will go the
way of the dino.

---------------
Didn't you hear, the nation is getting
fatter. Classic wheelsets will always
be in demand.

Quoted message said:

Even worse, very few bicycles are ridden on surfaces smooth to within
two to three thousandths of an inch.

Worst of all, rumor has it that bicycle tires deform several orders of
magnitude more than two to three thousandths of an inch when they hit
bumps with 1700N of force.

If you're trying to visualize that tiny 0.002 to 0.003 inches of extra
"suspension" travel, take a $100 bill--

You do have a $100 bill handy, don't you? If you believe in sales tax,
you'll need at least 15 of them if you really want those wheels.

Oops! Never mind--too thick. U.S. currency is about 0.0043" thick,
more than twice as thick as the theoretical increase in "suspension"
travel with the "softer" wheel.

Okay, grab a phone book, a little one with the really thin, flimsy
paper. There you are--0.0020" thick!

"Very stiff, but not particularly harsh" is how a sympathetic but
hopeful salesman might describe the price.

"Princess and the pea" describes any actual "suspension" difference.

You might as well try to tell the difference between riding on tires
inflated to 110 or 109 psi.

I just wrap my handlebars with a couple of layers of
20 dollar bills under the handlebar tape. It's actually
less expensive than stiff, yet responsive, yet compliant
boutique wheels, and provides greater suspension travel.
Plus, if I break my bike and need an emergency cab ride
home, I just have to unwrap the bar tape.

Sincerely,
Ben

On Sep 17, 3:18 am, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Even worse, very few bicycles are ridden on surfaces smooth to within
two to three thousandths of an inch.

Quoted message said:

Worst of all, rumor has it that bicycle tires deform several orders of
magnitude more than two to three thousandths of an inch when they hit
bumps with 1700N of force.

Quoted message said:

If you're trying to visualize that tiny 0.002 to 0.003 inches of extra
"suspension" travel, take a $100 bill--

Quoted message said:

You do have a $100 bill handy, don't you? If you believe in sales tax,
you'll need at least 15 of them if you really want those wheels.

Quoted message said:

Oops! Never mind--too thick. U.S. currency is about 0.0043" thick,
more than twice as thick as the theoretical increase in "suspension"
travel with the "softer" wheel.

Quoted message said:

Okay, grab a phone book, a little one with the really thin, flimsy
paper. There you are--0.0020" thick!

Quoted message said:

"Very stiff, but not particularly harsh" is how a sympathetic but
hopeful salesman might describe the price.

Quoted message said:

"Princess and the pea" describes any actual "suspension" difference.

Quoted message said:

You might as well try to tell the difference between riding on tires
inflated to 110 or 109 psi.

I just wrap my handlebars with a couple of layers of
20 dollar bills under the handlebar tape. It's actually
less expensive than stiff, yet responsive, yet compliant
boutique wheels, and provides greater suspension travel.
Plus, if I break my bike and need an emergency cab ride
home, I just have to unwrap the bar tape.

Sincerely,
Ben

That is certainly a low quality handlebar tape. The one that will
increase compliance while being stiffer and more responsive is the one
with the $50 bills. Now, if you also want to reduce weight, then you
need the $100 bills. You can use a couple less and make the tape
lighter. I myself carry a wallet with a credit card in my wallet. I
put the wallet in my seatbag and tell myself that I am testing a new
ultra-expensive seatpost.

Andres

DougA said:

Quoted message said:

How about this..DT hubs, Velocity rims, DT spokes..1450 grams and 1/2
the price...climbing wheels also.

I think the classic wheels are doomed. Boutique wheels have taken over.
The question I have is why haven't the classic suppliers given us the parts
to build boutique wheels (where is the Sun scandium rim that was promised
years ago? lighter hubs? stronger or alloy spokes available to wheel
builders?) Without the boutique parts classic wheel builders will go the
way of the dino.

Nope, at least not these days. Hubs are still fairly plentiful and
even shimano makes a new/better one for 2008. Rims are too, with DT
and Velocity making mnore models all the time. Nuthin better than
stainless steel spokes, IMO, gauges galore. Our success in building
wheels(numbers have increased every year for the last 8) is due in no
small part to the crappy, expensive wheelsouttaboxes now available.
This Mavic and other new ones will only help us(see cyclingnews about
the crankbros new wheel).

On Sep 17, 8:23 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com" > Nope,
at least not these days. Hubs are still fairly plentiful and

Quoted message said:

even shimano makes a new/better one for 2008. Rims are too, with DT
and Velocity making more models all the time.

Hooray for Shimano, goodbye stupid AL 10 speed only freehub.
Great thing about boutique is that you can easily justify DuraAce/
Velocity.
"See honey, they're $800 cheaper than the Mavics, so sos wife let him
buy."

Best quote on the R-Sys wheel, "Mavic has reinvented the wagon wheel,
solid spokes, brilliant."
bikesnobnyc iirc.

Scott G.

Scott G. said:

On Sep 17, 8:23 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com" > Nope,
at least not these days. Hubs are still fairly plentiful and

Quoted message said:

even shimano makes a new/better one for 2008. Rims are too, with DT
and Velocity making more models all the time.

Hooray for Shimano, goodbye stupid AL 10 speed only freehub.
Great thing about boutique is that you can easily justify DuraAce/
Velocity.
"See honey, they're $800 cheaper than the Mavics, so sos wife let him
buy."

Too bad the new ti freehub isn't backward compatible with 7800/7801
hubs..7800/7801 freehubs are even different, as I found out the hard
way.

Quoted message said:

Best quote on the R-Sys wheel, "Mavic has reinvented the wagon wheel,
solid spokes, brilliant."
bikesnobnyc iirc.

Scott G.

A package of Twinkies to anybody who can guess the material used on
ultegra SL to make it lighter.

In article
<[email hidden]>,
"Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com"

Quoted message said:

Scott G. said:

On Sep 17, 8:23 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com" > Nope,
at least not these days. Hubs are still fairly plentiful and

Quoted message said:

even shimano makes a new/better one for 2008. Rims are too, with DT
and Velocity making more models all the time.

Hooray for Shimano, goodbye stupid AL 10 speed only freehub.
Great thing about boutique is that you can easily justify DuraAce/
Velocity.
"See honey, they're $800 cheaper than the Mavics, so sos wife let him
buy."

Too bad the new ti freehub isn't backward compatible with 7800/7801
hubs..7800/7801 freehubs are even different, as I found out the hard
way.

Quoted message said:

Best quote on the R-Sys wheel, "Mavic has reinvented the wagon wheel,
solid spokes, brilliant."
bikesnobnyc iirc.

Scott G.

A package of Twinkies to anybody who can guess the material used on
ultegra SL to make it lighter.

Steel.

--
Michael Press