New (folding) 27 x 1 1/4 tyres

Rob Shields said:

Hi

I'm going loaded (camping) touring in Europe on my old Dawes Galaxy with
27 inch wheels. I'm looking at the 27 x 1 1/4 Continental Ultra Gator
Duraskin on wiggle.co.uk for
£16. Are these any good for loaded touring?

Your other main choices in that size are IRC Roadwinner, Panaracer
Pasela, Continental Sport 1000. If you feel them in the shop you will
notice that the UltraGator is stiffer and less pliable. So, it will
roll that much less easily. If you compare the thicknesses of the
treads, they are similar- it may have a little more puncture resistance
because of the harder rubber, but I doubt it. I believe the IRC
Roadwinner has the biggest air volume and so should, all things
considered, have the nicest ride. It is also likely the cheapest, along
with the Conti. I would expect it to have more durable sidewalls too,
if only because the tread rubber wraps around higher. I use a
different-branded version of the IRC and can testify that it is
excellent. It is the one I would choose, no contest.

Quoted message said:

Al so, I'd like to take a
folding tyre with me in case of an emergency. Does anyone know where a 27
x 1 1/4 folding tyre can be found in the UK?

SJS <www.sjscycles.com> should still carry Panaracer Pasela Tourguard
in that size..

41 said:

Your other main choices in that size are IRC Roadwinner, Panaracer
Pasela, Continental Sport 1000. If you feel them in the shop you will
notice that the UltraGator is stiffer and less pliable. So, it will
roll that much less easily.

Good point. I have some slightly
perished Ultra Gatorskins at the moment with plently of tread and they
seem to roll OK. My touring buddy has some 700 x 28mm Schwalbe Marathon
tyres and I roll downhill considerably faster that he does, although
that's probably due to the fact I weigh 10kg more than him! I have some Armadillos on
another bike and the Gators seem to ride better, they also come
recommended by Cycling Plus!

Quoted message said:

If you compare the thicknesses of the
treads, they are similar- it may have a little more puncture resistance
because of the harder rubber, but I doubt it.

Puncture resistance is a consideration, I'd rather get something that
rolls a bit slower (to a point) if I get fewer punctures.

Quoted message said:

I believe the IRC
Roadwinner has the biggest air volume and so should, all things
considered, have the nicest ride. It is also likely the cheapest, along
with the Conti. I would expect it to have more durable sidewalls too,
if only because the tread rubber wraps around higher. I use a
different-branded version of the IRC and can testify that it is
excellent. It is the one I would choose, no contest.

I can't see these on Wiggle or SJS, maybe I'll have a look for them
elsewhere. Wiggle have some IRC redstorm classic, not sure if these are
similar.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Al so, I'd like to take a
folding tyre with me in case of an emergency. Does anyone know where a 27
x 1 1/4 folding tyre can be found in the UK?

SJS <www.sjscycles.com> should still carry Panaracer Pasela Tourguard
in that size..

Excellent! They have one in 1 1/8 which is close enough for rock and roll.
Do you know what the availability of 27 inch stuff is in Europe? I'm going
through Austria, Germany, France and Italy.

Rob

try the conti tt: there are no substitutes for hdt beyond the T in 27".
pump to 80 pounds or no or minimal contact patch expansion. liners plus
self sealing tubes. seacrh to 'self sealing tubes' in tech,
using the folding tire for a second spare is reasonable on long
distance rides or for primary on short rides but across your personal
yemani landscape-go TT
but space taken by a figure 8 fold on the TT werighs far less than
using an vastly inferior spare tire in the 27 category.
i use the TT in a harsh glass filled environment for daily HDT.
there may be subs but for 26" and 700cc not 27".
in considering a switch to 700cc from 27"-i have cartridge 700cc wheels
in stock-i dwell on the curb/water clearance reduction as unfavorable.

41 said:

Rob Shields said:

I'm going loaded (camping) touring in Europe on my old Dawes Galaxy with
27 inch wheels. I'm looking at the 27 x 1 1/4 Continental Ultra Gator
Duraskin on wiggle.co.uk for
£16. Are these any good for loaded touring?

Your other main choices in that size are IRC Roadwinner, Panaracer
Pasela, Continental Sport 1000.

Can anybody tell me the actual width of the IRC 27 x 1 1/4 Roadwinner?

I mail ordered some Panaracer Pasela 27 x 1 1/4's and they are only
27.5mm wide (measured) on my SuperChamp Mod. 58 rim (a fairly wide rim).

Going on a tandem tour, the Paselas seem a bit narrow for the purpose.

Thanks,
Mark

datakoll said:

try the conti tt: there are no substitutes for hdt beyond the T in 27".

I guess the Top Touring is designed for touring, but I'm not really sure
what the technical difference is. Are the TTs heavier and stronger?

Quoted message said:

pump to 80 pounds or no or minimal contact patch expansion. liners plus
self sealing tubes. seacrh to 'self sealing tubes' in tech,

Good tip, I know about self sealing, slime filled tubes, and I've got some
plastic liners knocking about.

Quoted message said:

using the folding tire for a second spare is reasonable on long
distance rides or for primary on short rides but across your personal
yemani landscape-go TT
but space taken by a figure 8 fold on the TT werighs far less than
using an vastly inferior spare tire in the 27 category.

I guess I could fold a tyre in a figure of 8 and put it in my rear
pannier, this would mean I can carry a good spare as you say. Does folding
the tyre like this damage it at all?

Quoted message said:

i use the TT in a harsh glass filled environment for daily HDT.
there may be subs but for 26" and 700cc not 27".
in considering a switch to 700cc from 27"-i have cartridge 700cc wheels
in stock-i dwell on the curb/water clearance reduction as unfavorable.

Thanks for the advice
Rob

datakoll said:

try the conti tt:

I've been reading about these tyres and it seems people are concerned
about or have experienced side wall blowouts due to thin side walls. As
I'm going to be carrying 40 kilos or so this is definitely an issue, I
need something that's going to be up to the job.

Rob

Rob Shields said:

datakoll said:

try the conti tt: there are no substitutes for hdt beyond the T in 27".

I guess the Top Touring is designed for touring, but I'm not really sure
what the technical di fference is. Are the TTs heavier and stronger?

The TT is definitely a heavier and tougher tire than most anything out
there. It weighs, uh, get ready for it, 550g per tire. The tread is
thick and will last >5000 miles or so, the sidewalls are thick too, and
it has two extra nylon puncture resistant belts under the tread. Rather
a different tire from the UG so I didn't mention it. On the other hand,
people who use it say it rolls quite well, and if you feel it in the
shop it is reasonably pliable, for such a heavy tire. It will withstand
a heck of a lot of puncture abuse and if you still need tire liners or
slime or similar with this tire, you have my sincere condolences. It is
rather expensive.

Another reasonable tire to mention in this category is the Michelin
World Tour- also extra thick and puncture resistant, with gumwall
sides. Actual width is about 33mm, probably the fattest of all. It is
also likely the cheapest.

Someone was asking about Panaracer Pasela widths vs. IRC. Paselas run
one size small: a 32 (or 1-1/4) is actually a 28, a 28 is actually a
25-26, and a 35 is actually a 32. Once you get to the 37s they run true
to size. The Roadwinners run true to size or pretty close to it.

So, your choices divide into three groups: super puncture resistant,
heavy, extra thick rubber, althougj reasonably rolling tires like TT or
World Tour; super puncture resistant, terribly rolling like Specialized
Armadillo; or normal but quite durable tires like Roadwinner, Pasela,
UG, Sport 1000, and also some Vittoria model. Note that Pasela and
Roadwinner are available with or without an extra Kevlar cut resistant
belt (new production Roadwinner only available with [called Roadwinner
Duro; Pasela with Kevlar belt is Pasela Tourguard], some places still
have the ones without).

For most use I'd stick with the IRC Roadwinner. If I needed maximal
puncture resistance and longevity above all else, I'd go with TT if I
had loads of cash, World Tour if not.

See the rec.bicycles.tech FAQ for the proper way to fold a wire bead
clincher tire: not a figure 8 but into 3 loops. Still not all that
compact; unless you have a lot of room, I'd go with the folder. Folding
a wire bead tire the right way will not damage it.

41 said:

Rob Shields said:

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 08:38:41 -0700, datakoll wrote:

Quoted message said:

The TT is definitely a heavier and tougher tire than most anything out
there. It weighs, uh, get ready for it, 550g per tire. The tread is
thick and will last >5000 miles or so, the sidewalls are thick too, and
it has two extra nylon puncture resistant belts under the tread.

I've read alarming things about this tyre, that the sidewalls are thin and
can tear under load. I shall be carrying 40 kilos or so so this is a big
problems. Conti have also stopped or are stopping making these tyres, and
they are replaced by another model (City Contact?).

Quoted message said:

Rather
a different tire from the UG so I didn't mention it. On the other hand,
people who use it say it rolls quite well, and if you feel it in the
shop it is reasonably pliable, for such a heavy tire. It will withstand
a heck of a lot of puncture abuse and if you still need tire liners or
slime or similar with this tire, you have my sincere condolences. It is
rather expensive.

Another reasonable tire to mention in this category is the Michelin
World Tour- also extra thick and puncture resistant, with gumwall
sides. Actual width is about 33mm, probably the fattest of all. It is
also likely the cheapest.

Someone was asking about Panaracer Pasela widths vs. IRC. Paselas run
one size small: a 32 (or 1-1/4) is actually a 28, a 28 is actually a
25-26, and a 35 is actually a 32. Once you get to the 37s they run true
to size. The Roadwinners run true to size or pretty close to it.

I know what you mean about the Paselas, I have some 28s that are actually
25s.

Quoted message said:

So, your choices divide into three groups: super puncture resistant,
heavy, extra thick rubber, althougj reasonably rolling tires like TT or
World Tour; super puncture resistant, terribly rolling like Specialized
Armadillo; or normal but quite durable tires like Roadwinner, Pasela,
UG, Sport 1000, and also some Vittoria model. Note that Pasela and
Roadwinner are available with or without an extra Kevlar cut resistant
belt (new production Roadwinner only available with [called Roadwinner
Duro; Pasela with Kevlar belt is Pasela Tourguard], some places still
have the ones without).

I have also heard good things about Schwalbe Marathons, not sure which
category they fit in, I guess "normal but quite durable" or "super puncture resistant,

Quoted message said:

heavy, extra thick rubber, although reasonably rolling".

Quoted message said:

For most use I'd stick with the IRC Roadwinner. If I needed maximal
puncture resistance and longevity above all else, I'd go with TT if I
had loads of cash, World Tour if not.

See the rec.bicycles.tech FAQ for the proper way to fold a wire bead
clincher tire: not a figure 8 but into 3 loops. Still not all that
compact; unless you have a lot of room, I'd go with the folder. Folding
a wire bead tire the right way will not damage it.

Thanks
Rob

Rob Shields said:

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 22:33:15 -0700, 41 wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The TT is definitely a heavier and tougher tire than most anything out
there. It weighs, uh, get ready for it, 550g per tire. The tread is

Quoted message said:

I've read alarming things about this tyre, that the sidewa lls are thin and
can tear under load. I shall be carrying 40 kilos or so so this is a big
problems. Conti have also stopped or are stopping making these tyres, and
they are replaced by another model (City Contact?).

The TT is still widely available and still listed on the Conti website.
A few years ago (c.2000) there were many complaints about all Conti
sidewalls in general. These seem to have resolved into the following:
(a) the chafing strips were made of cotton and under certain conditions
they unravelled into long strings. Conti changed the material and in
new production this problem should be solved. (b) The pressures people
were using may have been too low, giving too much sidewall flex and
they failed prematurely. At higher pressures or lower weights no
problem. In any case I believe the sidewall problems have been solved
because one doesn't hear much about them any more, and e.g. you have
Chisholm here recommending the TT (different thread). The TT is a
really heavy tire with thick rubber.

Quoted message said:

I have also heard good things about Schwalbe Marathons, not sure which
category they fit in, I guess "normal but quite durable" or "super p uncture resistant,

Quoted message said:

heavy, extra thick rubber, although reasonably rolling".

The Marathon is in the same category as the Top Touring, I didn't
realize it was available in 27" but it is. It weighs 610g per tire,
even more than the TT. Schwalbe tires are high quality.

One useful thing in the Schwalbe catalogue is that they give a rating
of the maximal load for the tire. For 1-1/4" (32mm) tires, that load is
about 100kg. Carrying 40kg of baggage? That is an enormous amount and a
32 is rather thin for it, you will have to overinflate them
considerably: 40kg baggage + 13kg bicycle doesn't leave much left over
for the rider. Normally people would use at least a 35 or 37 for such a
huge load.

Unless you are crossing the Sahara solo or some such, do you really
need so much weight? Perhaps you could leave the golf clubs at home?

Good luck!!

right-the obvioos choice is- buy a 26" or 700cc touring bike or change
the 27" rims to cr-18 700 dropping the brakes(see sheldon brown)
tyhat takes car of the load.
50 pounds touring on the rear alone is par. when one '''work's''' with
these loads rather than uh conjecture-that's what loads up-50 pounds.
to trim that, well, it costs money. and like the man said-yes, its a
beautiful ($$$) tent but i worry about branches falling through it.
and tell me, when buying custom $$$ stove fuel on the road what do you
do with a gallon after filling the two pints Ti - kevlar bottles?

the pressure thing is point on. if the TT (or other) bottom with load
on to the road-it is possible to then have the rim cut into the
sidewall. go for the wal mart auto pump with locking head or go to
biketoolsect.com and look for their german schrader locking pump head
for $4 and buy touring toools while there-eg the cassette breaker.

i ran several thin (see thru) wall TT and had no problem carrying 70 (i
weighed the load) pounds on the rear but carefully from the grocery
store. elsewhere i write of downwind for 6-7 miles on a smoooth surface
at 20 plus mph with seat stay paint showing load stress but without TT
problems under a 30-40 pound max rear load-i am 165lbs on an '87
raleigh steel lugged sports tourer.

the rage is 26" for touring and if one gloms the tire selection-also
consider the lower baggage CG, newton! take a look at tech archives for
touring

one more before we go-under HD touring- tubes leak air reducing tire
longevity/handling...checking twice a day and providing a way to get
the pressure back up is essential.
i use nashbar and walmart slime tubes. a specialized thick wall torn
proof tube with slime could be the answer but i don't know if this
exists.that approach goes into the too much weight realm where touring
from cafe to motel ( and where the foundation for $$$ into the bike
system exists ) might resist the approach.
10 grams off the front wheel is a big deal. but 10 grams off the front
then adding a can of beans doesn't make much sense. 10 grams and the
cafe however...