New Deore Lineup

Whats this flippy shifter thing? And why bother with rapid rise - just
means that when you get cack on your cables and mech you have to worry
that the spring isnt strong enough to pull the chain up the block? Just
bought me a nice XT normal mech and the guy selling it went on about
how many complaints he has had about the rapid rise setups not shifting
proplerly. If it aint broke, dont fix it. And what possible reason is
there for having rapid rise?? Is it that peoples brains are too small
to deal with differing shift directions on each hand?

J

Coyoteboy said:

Whats this flippy shifter thing? And why bother with rapid rise - just
means that when you get cack on your cables and mech you have to worry
that the spring isnt strong enough to pull the chain up the block? Just
bought me a nice XT normal mech and the guy selling it went on about
how many complaints he has had about the rapid rise setups not shifting
proplerly. If it aint broke, dont fix it. And what possible reason is
there for having rapid rise?? Is it that peoples brains are too small
to deal with differing shift directions on each hand?

J

SRAM! Everything you mention and more!!!

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Just bought me a nice XT normal mech and the guy selling it went on about
how many complaints he has had about the rapid rise setups not shifting
proplerly.

Yup. My Uncle, whom I race with, had the rapid rise on his Trek Fuel 98 that
he bought at the end of last year... after complaining that it shifted for
[censored] for the past 6 months he had his shop remove it and put standard XT on.
The guy did it for free because he has so many complaints about rapid rise.
In the last race we did he rode the new (old) setup and was much happier
with the shifting... Personally, I think rapid rise is just dumb.

--
Dave -
www.blurredistinction.com/director
www.macromedia.com/go/team

Dave Mennenoh said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Just bought me a nice XT normal mech and the guy selling it went on
about how many complaints he has had about the rapid rise setups
not shifting proplerly.

Yup. My Uncle, whom I race with, had the rapid rise on his Trek Fuel
98 that he bought at the end of last year... after complaining that
it shifted for [censored] for the past 6 months he had his shop remove it
and put standard XT on. The guy did it for free because he has so
many complaints about rapid rise. In the last race we did he rode the
new (old) setup and was much happier with the shifting... Personally,
I think rapid rise is just dumb.

Conversely, people who grow up with Rapid Rise will say that high-normal is
dumb.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Phil said:

Conversely, people who grow up with Rapid Rise will say that high-normal is
dumb.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Can someone just explain the difference between normal and rapid rise for me please?

Sram with all the bikes I have its in my brain which way
to shift Halfpipe or not. That Shimano Rapid Raise derailleur is still
in the show case at one LBS for all those years now.

"Chris Phillipo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
| In article <[email hidden]>,
| [email hidden] says...
| > Subject: Re: New Deore Lineup
| > From: "Coyoteboy" <[email hidden]>
| > Newsgroups: alt.mountain-bike
| >
| > Whats this flippy shifter thing? And why bother with rapid rise - just
| > means that when you get cack on your cables and mech you have to worry
| > that the spring isnt strong enough to pull the chain up the block? Just
| > bought me a nice XT normal mech and the guy selling it went on about
| > how many complaints he has had about the rapid rise setups not shifting
| > proplerly. If it aint broke, dont fix it. And what possible reason is
| > there for having rapid rise?? Is it that peoples brains are too small
| > to deal with differing shift directions on each hand?
| >
| > J
| >
| >
| >
|
| I guess they figure if they cram enough rapid rise down our throats we
| will eventually see the light, even if things appear to be getting
| dimmer on the Shimano end.

When the Shimano rep hit our store a couple months ago I complained about
Low-Normal (they'll slap you around a bit if you call it "Rapid-Rise" any
more) and you'd have thought I insulted his mother. He wasn't swayed by the
fact I haven't had a single person come in and ask for the flippy [censored] or a
bass-ackward derailleur - or the fact that the three personal bikes parked
in the repair bay all had RD750 (traditional XT) derailleurs on them (hooked
up to old-style thumbshifters!)

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...
| Dave Mennenoh wrote:
| >>> Just bought me a nice XT normal mech and the guy selling it went on
| >>> about how many complaints he has had about the rapid rise setups
| >>> not shifting proplerly.
| >
| > Yup. My Uncle, whom I race with, had the rapid rise on his Trek Fuel
| > 98 that he bought at the end of last year... after complaining that
| > it shifted for [censored] for the past 6 months he had his shop remove it
| > and put standard XT on. The guy did it for free because he has so
| > many complaints about rapid rise. In the last race we did he rode the
| > new (old) setup and was much happier with the shifting... Personally,
| > I think rapid rise is just dumb.
|
| Conversely, people who grow up with Rapid Rise will say that high-normal
is
| dumb.

That still doesn't get into the problem of the spring doing the hardest work
instead of your thumb.

When the Shimano rep hit our store a couple months ago I complained about

Quoted message said:

Low-Normal (they'll slap you around a bit if you call it "Rapid-Rise" any
more) and you'd have thought I insulted his mother. He wasn't swayed by
the
fact I haven't had a single person come in and ask for the flippy [censored] or
a
bass-ackward derailleur - or the fact that the three personal bikes parked
in the repair bay all had RD750 (traditional XT) derailleurs on them
(hooked
up to old-style thumbshifters!)

That setup is the ticket, old school RF's with XT/XTR RD's after it breaks
I'm going Shimano cogs and SRAM shifters unless they keep the old school
stuff around. Hell I may go all the way radical and switch back to 8 speed
Shimano

"TBF::." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
| When the Shimano rep hit our store a couple months ago I complained about
| > Low-Normal (they'll slap you around a bit if you call it "Rapid-Rise"
any
| > more) and you'd have thought I insulted his mother. He wasn't swayed by
| > the
| > fact I haven't had a single person come in and ask for the flippy [censored]
or
| > a
| > bass-ackward derailleur - or the fact that the three personal bikes
parked
| > in the repair bay all had RD750 (traditional XT) derailleurs on them
| > (hooked
| > up to old-style thumbshifters!)
| >
| >
|
| That setup is the ticket, old school RF's with XT/XTR RD's after it breaks
| I'm going Shimano cogs and SRAM shifters unless they keep the old school
| stuff around. Hell I may go all the way radical and switch back to 8 speed
| Shimano

I still run 8s on my XC rig - the shifting is more forgiving than 9 speed
and since I use the old 7s thumbies I'm limited to 8 (using the "ghost"
shift.

Nelson Binch said:

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]>
wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dave Mennenoh said:

>> Just bought me a nice XT normal mech and the guy selling it went
>> on about how many complaints he has had about the rapid rise
>> setups not shifting proplerly.

Yup. My Uncle, whom I race with, had the rapid rise on his Trek Fuel
98 that he bought at the end of last year... after complaining that
it shifted for [censored] for the past 6 months he had his shop remove it
and put standard XT on. The guy did it for free because he has so
many complaints about rapid rise. In the last race we did he rode
the new (old) setup and was much happier with the shifting...
Personally, I think rapid rise is just dumb.

Conversely, people who grow up with Rapid Rise will say that
high-normal is dumb.

That still doesn't get into the problem of the spring doing the
hardest work instead of your thumb.

I'm all for high-normal. Even after an endorsement and historical lesson
from Sheldon Brown on r.b.t, I still don't get it. Either that or I haven't
fallen for it.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

davebee said:

Phil said:

Conversely, people who grow up with Rapid Rise will say that
high-normal is
dumb.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Can someone just explain the difference between normal and rapid rise
for me please?

Yes. From SheldonBrown.com:

Low-normal/High-normal
Modern derailers are spring loaded, pulled one way by the spring and the
other way by the control cable. A "low-normal" derailer is one in which the
spring pulls it toward the lower gear(s). If you release the tension on the
cable, it will shift to the lowest gear.
Up until the late 1950s, all spring loaded derailers were low-normal type.
When Campagnolo introduced the parallelogram-type rear derailer, they
changed to high-normal, and most rear derailers made since then have been of
the high-normal type.
The major advantage of high-normal rear derailers is that, when used with a
low-normal front, both levers move in the same direction for double shifts.
This makes it easier to perform a double shift with down-tube shift levers.
The major advantage of low-normal derailers is that they generally downshift
a bit better than high-normal units.
Since the late 1990s, Shimano has attempted to revive the low-normal rear
derailer design, using the trademark "RapidRise." This has met with
increasing acceptance by cyclists.
Sun Tour used to make high-normal front derailers. The principal advantage
of this was that the front and rear shift levers moved in the same direction
to either raise or lower the gear, which was less confusing for beginner
cyclists.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Speaking of low-normal rear derailers said:

That still doesn't get into the problem of the spring doing the hardest work
instead of your thumb.

What "problem" is that?

The main advantage of low-normal is improved downshifting, so it
doesn't seem to me that such a "problem" exists in practice.

Indeed, Shimano maintains that this system solves the problem of folks
forcing the derailer to move over too fast, losing the benefits of the
Hyperglide ramps and gates. Those only work properly if the chain
moves from one sprocket to the next without jumping over an
intermediate one. For smooth downshifting under load, this is a big
plus.

Sheldon "It Works!" Brown
Newtonville, Massachusetts
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
+--------------------------------------------+
| If you haven't yet discovered the novels |
| of Neal Stephenson, don't wait! |
| Start with Snow Crash or Quicksilver |
+--------------------------------------------+
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
| Speaking of low-normal rear derailers, Nelson Binch wrote:
|
| > That still doesn't get into the problem of the spring doing the hardest
work
| > instead of your thumb.
|
| What "problem" is that?
|
| The main advantage of low-normal is improved downshifting, so it
| doesn't seem to me that such a "problem" exists in practice.
|
| Indeed, Shimano maintains that this system solves the problem of folks
| forcing the derailer to move over too fast, losing the benefits of the
| Hyperglide ramps and gates. Those only work properly if the chain
| moves from one sprocket to the next without jumping over an
| intermediate one. For smooth downshifting under load, this is a big
| plus.

Sounds like they are calling something a problem that wasn't one. In the 7
speed era you could easily 'slam' a cassette (downshifting from small cogs
to the largest) very easily by backing off pedal pressure slightly. The
earlier versions of rapidfire would even shift 4 places, sending you more
than halfway across the cogs before the later versions limited it to 3.

Helical (coil) springs in current model derailleurs lose their strength
after some time, faster than the flat springs of the 7 speed stuff. I don't
like relying on just a spring to move to larger cogs.

Personally I've never had a problem with any form of standard mech
system, so why change to rapid rise, why not just teach people how to
shift properly? We've been to the moon yet its too complex to learn not
to jump too many cogs at once? 🙂

"Coyoteboy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
| Personally I've never had a problem with any form of standard mech
| system, so why change to rapid rise, why not just teach people how to
| shift properly? We've been to the moon yet its too complex to learn not
| to jump too many cogs at once? 🙂
|

Most of the folks I've know have learned after shelling out for high-dollar
chains a couple times in one week.

Only ever broken two chains in my life - one was a sachs one I split
and re-linked too many times, and the other was last week - a shimano
cheapo, split and re-linked without a proper pin as an emergency,
forgot about it and eventually it went "[censored]...and now ive eaten your
rear der. too" lol.

Seriously though, maybe its cos im mechanically minded, but when you
need to shift large numbers of cogs at once you dont, its only cos you
left it too late, and why not change up front instead lol.

J