New danger for cyclists?

wafflycat said:

Have a look at

<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/4535408.stm>

"Ramp creates power as cars pass "

"A road ramp that uses passing cars to generate power has been
developed. Dorset inventor Peter Hughes' Electro-Kinetic Road Ramp
creates around 10kW of power each time a car drives over its metal
plates.
More than 200 local authorities had expressed an interest in ordering
the £25,000 ramps to power their traffic lights and road signs, Mr
Hughes said. Around 300 jobs are due to be created in Somerset for a
production run of 2,000 ramps next year.
Plates in the ramp move up and down as vehicles pass over them,
driving a generator.
"The ramp is silent, comfortable and safe for vehicles," Mr Hughes
said. "

Have a look at the pictures, and, if the pics are accurate, imagine a
cyclist attempting to negotiate such a ramp... I wonder if the
inventor has considered cyclists at all? It looks positively
dangerous. Of course, it may not be, but it certainly looks suspect.

Cheers, helen s

Saw this on the TV the other night.

They didn't look as if they stretched accross the whole carriageway so
cyclists could proceed down the side of them on the normal road I presume.

Of course I could be totally wrong.

Sam Salt

"Sam Salt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Saw this on the TV the other night.

They didn't look as if they stretched accross the whole carriageway so
cyclists could proceed down the side of them on the normal road I presume.

Of course I could be totally wrong.

Sam Salt

Another possible point of concern... how does the positioning affect the
cyclist who needs to position him/herself by taking the primary positin on
the road...

Cheers, helen s

wafflycat said:

Have a look at

<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/4535408.stm>

"Ramp creates power as cars pass "

Should be "ramp creates polution as cars pass" or "ramp makes cars less
efficient converting petrol to electrical energy". I can't see the idea
of powering electric street furniture by tapping into the energy created
by burning petrol[1] as a step forward for anyone but the shareholders
in the petrochemical industry. Why not just build a small petrol fueled
power station and up the tax on petrol to cover it. That would achieve
the same thing, but curiously I hear no calls to make that happen.

Quoted message said:

"A road ramp that uses passing cars to generate power has been developed.
Dorset inventor Peter Hughes' Electro-Kinetic Road Ramp creates around
10kW of power each time a car drives over its metal plates.

A useless figure unless you know how long it creates 10Kw for.

Quoted message said:

More than 200 local authorities had expressed an interest in ordering
the £25,000 ramps to power their traffic lights and road signs, Mr
Hughes said.

More council tax frittered away then.

Quoted message said:

Around 300 jobs are due to be created in Somerset for a production run
of 2,000 ramps next year.
Plates in the ramp move up and down as vehicles pass over them, driving
a generator.
"The ramp is silent, comfortable and safe for vehicles," Mr Hughes said. "

I doubt it is as safe as the equivalent area of asphalt, especially if
there is what looks like a steel surface on it.

Quoted message said:

Have a look at the pictures, and, if the pics are accurate, imagine a
cyclist attempting to negotiate such a ramp... I wonder if the inventor
has considered cyclists at all? It looks positively dangerous. Of
course, it may not be, but it certainly looks suspect.

I agree, even though there is not really enough detail in this report to
make a final judgement. Its just another solution looking for a problem.

JimP
[1] For petrol read petrol, diesel, gas, hydrogen, coal or any other
fuel used to power motor vehicles.

wafflycat said:

<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/4535408.stm>

Quoted message said:

Have a look at the pictures, and, if the pics are accurate, imagine a
cyclist attempting to negotiate such a ramp...

Even worse, what happens to a cyclist crossing it at the same time that a
vehicle overtakes?

Mike

"wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Have a look at

<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/4535408.stm>

"Ramp creates power as cars pass "

"A road ramp that uses passing cars to generate power has been developed.
Dorset inventor Peter Hughes' Electro-Kinetic Road Ramp creates around
10kW of power each time a car drives over its metal plates.
More than 200 local authorities had expressed an interest in ordering the
£25,000 ramps to power their traffic lights and road signs, Mr Hughes
said.
Around 300 jobs are due to be created in Somerset for a production run of
2,000 ramps next year.
Plates in the ramp move up and down as vehicles pass over them, driving a
generator.
"The ramp is silent, comfortable and safe for vehicles," Mr Hughes said. "

Have a look at the pictures, and, if the pics are accurate, imagine a
cyclist attempting to negotiate such a ramp... I wonder if the inventor
has considered cyclists at all? It looks positively dangerous. Of course,
it may not be, but it certainly looks suspect.

It looked like an early april fool to me - A set of traffic lights would
need to use a *vast* amount of electric before the cost of the ramp and the
install costs were recouped, and there would need to be some very expensive
electrical equipment to convert the short 10kw surge caused by each vehicle
into stored enery via an elaborate generator & battery system. Also if the
public are now providing power for traffic lights would they expect a
reduction in their council tax?

wafflycat said:

Have a look at the pictures, and, if the pics are accurate, imagine a
cyclist attempting to negotiate such a ramp... I wonder if the
inventor has considered cyclists at all? It looks positively
dangerous. Of course, it may not be, but it certainly looks suspect.

Judging from the photo, the leading 'step' looks to be about 1.5-2" high,
and, from the left-hand edge, there doesn't seem to be a gentle, rounded
lead-in. However, it looks double-ended - there seems to be a matching ramp
with the gentle slope pointing towards the traffic, the ramp having been
operated by the car.

If it is doubled ended, and doesn't yield to a cyclist's weight, then it
would be more like a sleeping policeman with what looks like smooth lead-in
and lead-out. However, it could still be encountered in a semi-operated
state - a vehicle in traffic could stop on the first plate, leaving the
second one up, filtering cyclist comes along and hits the 'kerb'.

I would also be concerned about how well it operates in winter. A bit of
snowfall, a bit of thaw, some more snow, and a night of freeze, could clog
up the works, preventing it from operating properly.

--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Jim Price said:

wafflycat wrote:
Should be "ramp creates polution as cars pass" or "ramp makes cars less
efficient converting petrol to electrical energy". I can't see the idea
of powering electric street furniture by tapping into the energy created
by burning petrol[1] as a step forward for anyone but the shareholders
in the petrochemical industry.

[1] For petrol read petrol, diesel, gas, hydrogen, coal or any other
fuel used to power motor vehicles.

They should make a version that just goes in cycle lanes, then it
would only be human power taken! enviromentally sound!

Jim.

Wally said:

Judging from the photo, the leading 'step' looks to be about 1.5-2" high,
and, from the left-hand edge, there doesn't seem to be a gentle, rounded
lead-in. However, it looks double-ended - there seems to be a matching ramp
with the gentle slope pointing towards the traffic, the ramp having been
operated by the car.

More detailed info and animations at
http://www.hughesresearch.co.uk/index.htm

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham

Adrian Boliston said:

Quoted message said:

Have a look at the pictures, and, if the pics are accurate, imagine a
cyclist attempting to negotiate such a ramp... I wonder if the inventor
has considered cyclists at all? It looks positively dangerous. Of course,
it may not be, but it certainly looks suspect.

It looked like an early april fool to me - A set of traffic lights would
need to use a *vast* amount of electric before the cost of the ramp and the
install costs were recouped, and there would need to be some very expensive
electrical equipment to convert the short 10kw surge caused by each vehicle
into stored enery via an elaborate generator & battery system. Also if the
public are now providing power for traffic lights would they expect a
reduction in their council tax?

A friend of mine is the bus shelter guru for Transport for London,
employed to drive forward their bus shelter strategy.

He reliably informs me that most of the cost of the bus shelters which
display times for the next busses is laying the electricity and data
cables.

However, when questioned about using solar panels and mobile phone
technology to receive the information and power the display, he said
that it would be even more expensive.

Jim Price came up with the following;:

Quoted message said:

wafflycat said:

Have a look at

<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/4535408.stm>

"Ramp creates power as cars pass "

Should be "ramp creates polution as cars pass" or "ramp makes cars less
efficient converting petrol to electrical energy". I can't see the idea
of powering electric street furniture by tapping into the energy created
by burning petrol[1] as a step forward for anyone but the shareholders
in the petrochemical industry.

Maybe because the cars are going to be passing anyway, so generating power
from them doesn't actually cost anything other than the initial expenditure
and upkeep.

Quoted message said:

Why not just build a small petrol fueled
power station and up the tax on petrol to cover it. That would achieve
the same thing, but curiously I hear no calls to make that happen.

No it wouldn't. You'd then be burning petrol specifically to turn into
electricity. The scheme above suggests using a resource that is currently
un-tapped 'spare' energy.

--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!
ebay 8023391484

Paul - censored said:

Jim Price came up with the following;:

Quoted message said:

Should be "ramp creates polution as cars pass" or "ramp makes cars less
efficient converting petrol to electrical energy". I can't see the idea
of powering electric street furniture by tapping into the energy created
by burning petrol[1] as a step forward for anyone but the shareholders
in the petrochemical industry.

Maybe because the cars are going to be passing anyway, so generating power
from them doesn't actually cost anything other than the initial expenditure
and upkeep.

er, and the extra fuel burnt by the car, or do you really think this
is free energy?

Quoted message said:

No it wouldn't. You'd then be burning petrol specifically to turn into
electricity. The scheme above suggests using a resource that is currently
un-tapped 'spare' energy.

You're saying that this material has no higher resistance than a
normal road? In which case how much of the countries roads would need
to be covered to supply the whole countries electricity needs?

Jim.

wafflycat came up with the following;:

Quoted message said:

Have a look at

<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/4535408.stm>

"Ramp creates power as cars pass "

Quoted message said:

Have a look at the pictures, and, if the pics are accurate, imagine a
cyclist attempting to negotiate such a ramp... I wonder if the inventor
has considered cyclists at all? It looks positively dangerous. Of course,
it may not be, but it certainly looks suspect.

I've never known a metal road surface, which is what it appears to be, ever
be safe in anything other than bone dry conditions [1] for any two wheeled
vehicle.

I guess they could cover it in bitumen/tarmac/a n other 'normal road
covering.

Mind, they might allow us to practice bunny-hopping, instead of using the
pavement and kerb ... 😉

[1] And even bone-dry it's not ideal ...

--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!
ebay 8023391484

Paul - censored said:

Maybe because the cars are going to be passing anyway, so generating
power from them doesn't actually cost anything other than the initial
expenditure and upkeep.

Nobel Prize for you laddie. You've just invented perpetual motion

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham

Jim Ley came up with the following;:

Quoted message said:

Paul - censored said:

Jim Price came up with the following;:

Quoted message said:

Should be "ramp creates polution as cars pass" or "ramp makes cars less
efficient converting petrol to electrical energy". I can't see the idea
of powering electric street furniture by tapping into the energy created
by burning petrol[1] as a step forward for anyone but the shareholders
in the petrochemical industry.

Maybe because the cars are going to be passing anyway, so generating
power from them doesn't actually cost anything other than the initial
expenditure and upkeep.

er, and the extra fuel burnt by the car, or do you really think this
is free energy?

ISTM that the cars would be only rolling over a small ramp and burning an
insignificant, indeed infinitessimally small amount of extra fuel to do so
(momentum etc) so that argument seems false.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

No it wouldn't. You'd then be burning petrol specifically to turn into
electricity. The scheme above suggests using a resource that is
currently un-tapped 'spare' energy.

You're saying that this material has no higher resistance than a
normal road? In which case how much of the countries roads would need
to be covered to supply the whole countries electricity needs?

I dunno. ISTM that it's a small movable ramp that is raised an inch or so
and would take no effort for any car travelling above walking pace to
negotiate. There is no suggestion that it is to be used as you suggest, or
didn't you read the article?

--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!
ebay 8023391484

wafflycat said:

Have a look at

<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/4535408.stm>

"Ramp creates power as cars pass "

ISTR reading about this in New Scientist some time ago. Can't find
anything about it now, though. The ensuing letters pointed out that the
electricity is not free, or pollution free, as cars will have to burn
more fuel to compensate.

Quoted message said:

Have a look at the pictures, and, if the pics are accurate, imagine a
cyclist attempting to negotiate such a ramp... I wonder if the inventor has
considered cyclists at all? It looks positively dangerous. Of course, it may
not be, but it certainly looks suspect.

That's quite scary.

--
Danny Colyer (my reply address is valid but checked infrequently)
<URL:http://www.colyer.plus.com/danny/>
Subscribe to PlusNet <URL:http://www.colyer.plus.com/referral/>
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

"wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Sam Salt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Saw this on the TV the other night.

They didn't look as if they stretched accross the whole carriageway so
cyclists could proceed down the side of them on the normal road I
presume.

Of course I could be totally wrong.

Sam Salt

Another possible point of concern... how does the positioning affect the
cyclist who needs to position him/herself by taking the primary positin on
the road...

Same argument could be had about sleeping policemen. Totally lacks any
substance. It's the positioning and not the device that would be the issue.

On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 14:41:58 +0000 someone who may be Bertie Wiggins
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

He reliably informs me that most of the cost of the bus shelters which
display times for the next busses is laying the electricity and data
cables.

That seems highly likely.

Quoted message said:

However, when questioned about using solar panels and mobile phone
technology to receive the information and power the display, he said
that it would be even more expensive.

That seems unlikely. Using solar for lighting is certainly supposed
to be cheaper in Edinburgh. I imagine the controller could activate
suitably low power displays at the same time as it activates the
lights http://news.scotsman.com/scitech.cfm?id=2111692005 for little
extra cost.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Tony Raven said:

More detailed info and animations at
http://www.hughesresearch.co.uk/index.htm

Thanks for that. The version on the web site looks a bit different from the
one on the BBC site (presumably a photo of a prototype). With the 'kerb'
gone, I suppose it would be a lot more benign for cyclists, although there
would still be the possiblity of a car hitting the high half just as a bike
is on the low half, causing the latter to suddenly bump upwards.

--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Paul - censored said:

ISTM that the cars would be only rolling over a small ramp and burning
an insignificant, indeed infinitessimally small amount of extra fuel to
do so (momentum etc) so that argument seems false.

The car will have to supply more power than is generated by the ramp -
simple thermodynamics. If the ramp extracts energy the car will slow
down and fuel will be expended to speed it back up. Momentum doesn't
help you. There is no such thing as a free lunch.

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham