New Bling from Shimano

warrwyc referred to -

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2006/news/03-09

[prototype dura ace electronic shifters used for the first time publicly in
race in Europe]

And the problem with any reliable set of brifters that this will solve is?

I was once told that handlebar mounted gear indicators were only for those
scared to look between their legs.

If they wanted to do something more useful I wouldn't mind them
incorporating SRM type strain gauges in the crank arms at time of
manufacture. I suspect inexpensive and reliable power measurement might be
of use in training and worth having.

Some very bitter experiences with mavic mektronic some years back convinced
me that electronic [censored] is a solution in search of a problem - mine used
to fail and leave you permanently in the 11, which built character and quads
but did become tiresome after 3 repeats. The distributor and I settled up
with him buying me a new Ultegra groupset which has never given a hint of
trouble.

best, Andrew

warrwych said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2006/news/03-09

but what happens when you ride under HV power lines???? 😄

Can you accidentally shift your team mate's gears (or the competition's) if you are riding too close together??? :eek:

At least Campag has its priorities right ie aesthetics! 😄

I think electronic shifting would have more place in MTBing to be honest. Shifting in mud can be a seriously hit and miss business, in part due to how dirty the shifters and cables get. I would if electronic shifters (properly sealed) would solve that problem?

On 2006-03-09, warrwych (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2006/news/03-09

What a pointless excercise. The sole positive given was that it will
reduce human error in shifting in that final sprint -- of course, only
to be replaced by machine error.

So it saves a few grams in the shifters!? Only to be replaced by big
honking solonoids and C sized battery. I am surprised it gets away
with a C battery that last "months". I thought the shifting force
required was much greater than could be supplied by such a small
battery.

So the total weight of the gear changing mechanism surely has to be
about the same as a set of hub gears and shifters? Why not just bite
the bullet? If the best we can do to improving the horribly clunky
derailleur system over the past ... whatever decades is to add a
couple of electronic solenoids, we aren't doing very well, are we?

/me wants everyone else to buy hub gears so their price comes down and
I can afford them 🙂

--
TimC
I'm sorry. The number you have reached is imaginary. Please rotate your
phone 90 degrees and try again. -- MIT's phone switch

TimC said:

On 2006-03-09, warrwych (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2006/news/03-09

What a pointless excercise. The sole positive given was that it will
reduce human error in shifting in that final sprint -- of course, only
to be replaced by machine error.

So it saves a few grams in the shifters!? Only to be replaced by big
honking solonoids and C sized battery. I am surprised it gets away
with a C battery that last "months". I thought the shifting force
required was much greater than could be supplied by such a small
battery.

So the total weight of the gear changing mechanism surely has to be
about the same as a set of hub gears and shifters? Why not just bite
the bullet? If the best we can do to improving the horribly clunky
derailleur system over the past ... whatever decades is to add a
couple of electronic solenoids, we aren't doing very well, are we?

/me wants everyone else to buy hub gears so their price comes down and
I can afford them 🙂

--
TimC
I'm sorry. The number you have reached is imaginary. Please rotate your
phone 90 degrees and try again. -- MIT's phone switch

Isn't "human error" part of the fun and excitement that is racing?? That helps make racing what it is?? And when the UCI is trying to standardise bikes to allow the human element to come through and do its thing, why bother with electronic shifting in this regard?

I have an image of the next step in electronic shifting - remote shifting done by the team director in the team car! 😄 "YOu're not spinning enough, damn you!!" hehe

warrwych said:

cyclingnews.comtech.phpOpen ↗

but what happens when you ride under HV power lines???? 😄

Can you accidentally shift your team mate's gears (or the competition's) if you are riding too close together??? :eek:

At least Campag has its priorities right ie aesthetics! 😄

There would have to be an evil electronics genious out there who could build a gear change transmitter with a 5000W output instead of the 20mW output of the factory unit. And an equally evil team director prepared to aim it at other team's riders. Mwhahahah.

What ever happened to the Shimano system that shifted using compressed air? Did anyone ever use it? It was for downhilling, if I recall.

SteveA

On 10/03/06 at 10:14:20 warrwych somehow managed to type:

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2006/news/03-09

but what happens when you ride under HV power lines???? 😄

Can you accidentally shift your team mate's gears (or the
competition's) if you are riding too close together??? :eek:

At least Campag has its priorities right ie aesthetics! 😄

Ahhhh Didn't Mavic have electronic shifting about 10 or 12 years ago
called Mavic Zap ? Can you get it now ? Admittedly their system was
wired but it REALLY caught on big time. Well perhaps not "big time".
Hmmmm perhaps not even a little bit...:-)

--
Humbug
BE A LOOF! (There has been a recent population explosion of lerts.)

On 2006-03-10, warrwych (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

TimC said:

On 2006-03-09, warrwych (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2006/news/03-09

What a pointless excercise. The sole positive given was that it will
reduce human error in shifting in that final sprint -- of course, only
to be replaced by machine error.

....

Quoted message said:

Isn't "human error" part of the fun and excitement that is racing??
That helps make racing what it is?? And when the UCI is trying to
standardise bikes to allow the human element to come through and do its
thing, why bother with electronic shifting in this regard?

I have an image of the next step in electronic shifting - remote
shifting done by the team director in the team car! 😄 "YOu're not
spinning enough, damn you!!" hehe

I would love to p0wn Jan Ullrich's shifting. In Soviet Russia, bike
demands you shift to monster gear!

--
TimC
"Meddle not in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle, and will
[censored] on your computer." - Jeff Wilder

Andrew Price said:

warrwyc referred to -

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2006/news/03-09

[prototype dura ace electronic shifters used for the first time publicly in
race in Europe]

And the problem with any reliable set of brifters that this will solve is?

I was once told that handlebar mounted gear indicators were only for those
scared to look between their legs.

If they wanted to do something more useful I wouldn't mind them
incorporating SRM type strain gauges in the crank arms at time of
manufacture. I suspect inexpensive and reliable power measurement might be
of use in training and worth having.

Some very bitter experiences with mavic mektronic some years back convinced
me that electronic [censored] is a solution in search of a problem - mine used
to fail and leave you permanently in the 11, which built character and quads
but did become tiresome after 3 repeats. The distributor and I settled up
with him buying me a new Ultegra groupset which has never given a hint of
trouble.

best, Andrew

The only advantage I can see is that if shifters became smart,
they could compensate for a moving chain line. For example, on
the small ring and you shift to smaller rear cogs. Rather than
feather the front yourself, the system does it for you. I can
imagine that subtle shifting could be included depending on the
gear you're in, the position of the cranks, cadence - a bit like
an advance curve in an EFI engine. Of course, improvement would
be marginal compared with normal levers for a competent rider.

DeF

--
e-mail: d.farrow@your finger.murdoch.edu.au
To reply, you'll have to remove your finger.

[PHP][/PHP]

Andrew Price said:

convinced me that electronic [censored] is a solution in search of a problem -

[PHP][/PHP]

Couldn't agree more - IMHO this stuff is purely for the gimmick freaks

NB - I'm talking about electronic shifting as against [censored] (which Andrew seems to have a stance on ..😄

TimC said:

O
What a pointless excercise. The sole positive given was that it will
reduce human error in shifting in that final sprint -- of course, only
to be replaced by machine error.

<[censored] comment> experiencing a mechanical in the dieing moments and losing a win might make you think differently about this </[censored] comment>

Cant help thinking it looks like Campy with stupidity added into it 😄

makes you wonder how long shifting of any sort 'at the front' has legs???
Why bother?

make rohloffs half the weight and shifting-be-gone 😄

monsterman pointed out that I said -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

convinced me that electronic [censored] is a solution in search of a
problem -

.... for which Freudian slip I apologise - hope this doesn't get the
newsgroup banned in England.

best, Andrew

warrwych said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2006/news/03-09

but what happens when you ride under HV power lines???? 😄

More importantly, what happens when the battery goes flat?
Does it come with a squeeze handle for recharging?

warrwych said:

cyclingnews.comtech.phpOpen ↗

but what happens when you ride under HV power lines???? 😄

Can you accidentally shift your team mate's gears (or the competition's) if you are riding too close together??? :eek:

At least Campag has its priorities right ie aesthetics! 😄

[font=Arial]Campagnolo is also known to be developing electronic shifting and prototypes have been seen, but no plans to actually market the equipment have been announced.[/font]

[font=Arial] [/font]

[font=Arial]One stumbling block for AC/DC drivetrains is the power required to push the chain up onto larger chainrings. Such shifts can quickly drain the battery. Shimano's patented solution is to use spring assistance, similar to its Rapid Rise mountain bike shifting.[/font]

[font=Arial] [/font]

[font=Arial]The Shimano and Campy systems, like ZAP, apparently are using wires rather than wireless technology. After all, something eventually needs to make the first generation old-fashioned. [/font]
[font=Arial][/font]
[font=Arial]From the RBR newsletter.🙂 [/font]

warrwych said:

At least Campag has its priorities right ie aesthetics! 😄

IHMO this is an expensive, heavy, failure-prone solution to a problem
that doesn't really exist, although I suppose some people would
buy it just for its novelty value.

--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw

TimC said:

I would love to p0wn Jan Ullrich's shifting. In Soviet Russia, bike
demands you shift to monster gear!

In Korea, only old people shift their own gears.

--
Dave Hughes | [email hidden]
A man might spend his life peering at the private life of elementary
particles and then find he either knew who he was or where he was, but
not both. - Terry Pratchett, Hogfather

From what I heard it was killed off due to reliability probelms

"Humbug" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 10/03/06 at 10:14:20 warrwych somehow managed to type:

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2006/news/03-09

but what happens when you ride under HV power lines???? 😄

Can you accidentally shift your team mate's gears (or the
competition's) if you are riding too close together??? :eek:

At least Campag has its priorities right ie aesthetics! 😄

Ahhhh Didn't Mavic have electronic shifting about 10 or 12 years ago
called Mavic Zap ? Can you get it now ? Admittedly their system was
wired but it REALLY caught on big time. Well perhaps not "big time".
Hmmmm perhaps not even a little bit...:-)

--
Humbug
BE A LOOF! (There has been a recent population explosion of lerts.)

"warrwych" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2006/news/03-09

but what happens when you ride under HV power lines???? 😄

Can you accidentally shift your team mate's gears (or the
competition's) if you are riding too close together??? :eek:

At least Campag has its priorities right ie aesthetics! 😄

--
warrwych

I can only think of 2 reasons why anyone would want these(well apart from
bling value)
1. you could use a shorter chain and a smaller rear derailleur and have
certain gears "locked out" electronically.(so of course you would need to be
able to plug into your PC to be able to update the memory every time you
change the chain rings or cassette). maybe handy for triples

2. for TT bike, as having two sets one switches would weigh almost nothing
more than on set, you could have switches on the TT bars and switches on the
brake levers. it would help a little at the start and out of corners where
they need to almost stop pedaling to reach the shifters on the TT bars

hey I never said they were good ideas

Stu

TimC said:

I would love to p0wn Jan Ullrich's shifting. In Soviet Russia, bike
demands you shift to monster gear!

In Soviet Russia, monster gear shifts you!

Humbug said:

On 10/03/06 at 10:14:20 warrwych somehow managed to type:

Quoted message said:

cyclingnews.comtech.phpOpen ↗

but what happens when you ride under HV power lines???? 😄

Can you accidentally shift your team mate's gears (or the
competition's) if you are riding too close together??? :eek:

At least Campag has its priorities right ie aesthetics! 😄

Ahhhh Didn't Mavic have electronic shifting about 10 or 12 years ago
called Mavic Zap ? Can you get it now ? Admittedly their system was
wired but it REALLY caught on big time. Well perhaps not "big time".
Hmmmm perhaps not even a little bit...:-)

--
Humbug
BE A LOOF! (There has been a recent population explosion of lerts.)

I'd love (hate?) to see the blue screen of death on the readouts on the hoods.

There could be a network engineer, computer programmer and a bike mechanic jump out the a support vehicle and run up to the bike and see whats wrong with during a race also 🙂

Ash