New bike

(K. David Marple) said:

Howdy,

I live in Portland, Or and a friend is looking for a new bike in the $300 to $600 range, not
including helmet, shoes, light...etc. They are reserving $200 for those items.

He is looking to ride 95% of the time on the road, but with the option to do some off.

He needs two bikes: an entry level road bike and a singlespeed mountain bike made from someone
lonely pup rescued from a dumpster.

--
Scott Johnson "There is nothing, I think, more unfortunate than to have soft, chubby, fat-looking
children who go to watch their school play basketball every Saturday and regard that as their week's
exercise."
- John F. Kennedy, 1962

Top Sirloin said:

(K. David Marple) said:

Howdy,

I live in Portland, Or and a friend is looking for a new bike in the $300 to $600 range, not
including helmet, shoes, light...etc. They are reserving $200 for those items.

He is looking to ride 95% of the time on the road, but with the option to do some off.

He needs two bikes: an entry level road bike and a singlespeed mountain bike made from someone
lonely pup rescued from a dumpster.

Agreed. If he wants to do 95 percent of his riding on pavement, then prioritize that first, and get
an entry-level roadie. However, with all the rain that you get in Portland, you might want to
consider a bicycle that will fit fenders--these will prevent muck from the road from being flung up
onto your backside, and more importantly, your eyes.

Most entry-level road bikes have very little clearance for fenders--ask the shopdudes and they might
be able to steer you in the right direction (if your'e lucky. If you're not, you'll be met with the
uncomprehending stare and a "why would you ever want to ride in the *rain*?"😉.

A dropped-bar tourer might be a good way to go, depending on price. I ride a Jamis Aurora which I
find to be perfectly adequate to my needs; just fast enough, just stable enough, just comfortable
enough. I also found it at a nigh unbeatable clearance price of US$450.

If he wants to ride off-road, you can pick up a used MTB pretty cheaply. Keep your eyes open in the
local community. Avoid any x*mart bikes--but relatively reliable used MTBs can be had for very
little money.

I find that people who say they want to ride 'a little' off-road are generally unsure as to what
they want to do. Their MTBs end up like a lot of 4x4's you see on the road--off-road ready, but
never seeing anything worse than a gravel parking lot.

-Luigi www.livejournal.com/users/ouij Photos, rants, raves

On 19 Feb 2004 01:18:30 -0800, [email hidden] (K. David

Marple) said:

I live in Portland, Or and a friend is looking for a new bike in the $300 to $600 range, not
including helmet, shoes, light...etc. They are reserving $200 for those items.

Quoted message said:

He is looking to ride 95% of the time on the road, but with the option to do some off.

Quoted message said:

Most of the bikes had Shimano on them and the people we talked to

If he likes grip shifters, Sram components are probably fine too; I haven't used them. I strongly
dislike grip shifters.

Quoted message said:

seemed to think Deoreo(sp) was a good set to have. Most of the people

Deore is a good group. Don't go beyond Deore in the price range you specified. Acera is fine for entry-
level; it hasn't failed me riding moderately hard in harsh off-road conditions since I bought my
mountain bike in 1998 or so. I did upgrade to Deore derailers to accommodate a wider gearing range
than my 1997 Acera stuff could handle, but I think the modern Acera can handle the wide range now.

I did try an Altus rear derailer, in an attempt to be ultra-cheap, when I originally did that
upgrade, but it didn't last long before it snapped while going up a long, shallow hill with semi-
rough terrain. It also didn't shift as nicely as the other stuff.

Quoted message said:

pressed disc brakes due in part to the high amount of rain we have here and the ease of changing
tires, except for the 'custom' shop who thought you were giving up too much money just for disc
brakes and should spend your budget on the other items. Not to mention the

Disc brakes do seem extravagant on an entry level bike. They are good for wet/muddy riding, though.
If the bike will be ridden with no regards to the weather daily, then disc brakes would be worth it;
but if the rider will balk at riding in the rain, then don't waste the money.

The V-brakes found on most mountain bikes are very good; but when wet, they take a revolution of the
wheel to squeegee the water off before they brake effectively, and when wet & gritty, they are very
noisy. If the wheel is out of true and the brakes are well adjusted, then the wheel will rub on
every revolution, which also gets noisy in wet weather; this shouldn't be a problem, because the
wheels should be kept true.

Quoted message said:

torque placed on the spokes was different than what bike spokes have been asked to do for the past
100 years.

In practice, this is not a problem. Modern wheel components, design, and construction all result in
a wheel capable of handling this torque load -- which, by the way, is probably similar when a very
heavy person pedals up a steep hill in an ultra-low gear. Such gearing places a different torque
load on the spokes than what was available until recently.

Quoted message said:

I'm wondering if anyone here has any suggestions to pass on, things to avoid, questions to ask the
shops, things to look for, etc.

You've got a pretty good idea of what you're doing; you seem to be primarily looking for a shop, and
then secondarily a bike.

Consider hybrid or comfort bikes. A mountain bike is heavy, and can be awkward and slow on the road,
compared to a bike made primarily for the road. Hybrids can handle light off-roading as well as a
mountain bike can; they just can't do the heavy-duty stuff well. They're probably more comfortable
for long road riding, too.

If a mountain bike is bought, put slicks, or at least semi-slicks with an inverted, automotive style
tread on. Knobby tires are unpleasant for pavement riding, and eat up some of your pedalling energy
that could otherwise have driven the bike faster/farther.

For any bike with straight handlebars, bar-ends are a cheap way to add a few good hand positions.
Bar ends that curve around to the front add two positions, one holding the side of the bar-ends, and
one nearly parallel to the handlebar but forward and up. They look like this: nashbar.comPSOpen ↗
BXR.gif Similar bar ends can be found inexpensively at many/most bike shops.
--
Rick Onanian

Luigi de Guzman said:

Quoted message said:

He needs two bikes: an entry level road bike and a singlespeed mountain bike made from someone
lonely pup rescued from a dumpster.

Not a singlespeed. A regular derailer-equipped mountain bike.

Quoted message said:

Agreed. If he wants to do 95 percent of his riding on pavement, then prioritize that first, and get
an entry-level roadie. However, with

The trouble is, drop bars are intimidating for new riders. It's not helped by the very low height at
which they are usually found.

A straight-bar road bike, or a drop-bar road bike with wide bars, cyclocross levers, and a higher
bar height, would do; but such bikes are probably out of the specified price range.
--
Rick Onanian

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 10:27:49 -0500, Rick Onanian <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Luigi de Guzman said:

Quoted message said:

He needs two bikes: an entry level road bike and a singlespeed mountain bike made from someone
lonely pup rescued from a dumpster.

Not a singlespeed. A regular derailer-equipped mountain bike.

That's what I said!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Agreed. If he wants to do 95 percent of his riding on pavement, then prioritize that first, and
get an entry-level roadie. However, with

The trouble is, drop bars are intimidating for new riders. It's not helped by the very low height
at which they are usually found.

A straight-bar road bike, or a drop-bar road bike with wide bars, cyclocross levers, and a higher
bar height, would do; but such bikes are probably out of the specified price range.

Newbies think they have to ride on the drops all the time.

I ride on the hoods. Far better.

-Luigi

(K. David Marple) said:

Howdy,

I live in Portland, Or and a friend is looking for a new bike in the $300 to $600 range, not
including helmet, shoes, light...etc. They are reserving $200 for those items.

there are a lot of shops here. for what you can spend looking for a used bike may be best. check out
city bikes and another one I really like I can't think of the name it starts with V it is on about
34th and hawthorne. right by a futon place. he sells road bikes on commission and is very
knowledgable and helpful. you may get the best bang or the buck.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices See knight-knight-Open ↗
toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

Rick Onanian <[email hidden]> wrote:
: or a drop-bar road bike with wide bars,

i've always wondered about the motivation behind wide bars. i'm 6'2" but fairly narrow (39cm
shoulders) and i've always ridden 39 or 40cm c-c bars and liked 'em. i rode a 42cm c-c bar for about
6 months and it always felt a little awkward .. for a shorter time 44cm c-c felt very awkward.
anything larger dowright awful.

do people that like 'em wide like 'em because you're wide and they actually fit whereas before
you'd been forced onto small bars or are they actually quite a bit wider than your shoulders and
you find that to be a good thing. if so, what is it about bars that are wider than your shoulders
that you like?

i'm not buying the opening up your lungs line, either.
--
david reuteler [email hidden]

David Reuteler said:

do people that like 'em wide like 'em because you're wide and they actually fit whereas before
you'd been forced onto small bars

I've always liked 42 cm Maes, but that's a touch smaller than the width of my shoulders, so I guess
that's the equivalent your 39 cm. OTOH, I've never ridden anything narrower except a track bike at
about 40 cm - and the steel bars and no levers made it hard to compare in feel.

Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on two wheels...

Rick Onanian said:

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 09:02:07 -0500, Luigi de Guzman <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Agreed. If he wants to do 95 percent of his riding on pavement, then prioritize that first, and
get an entry-level roadie. However, with

Quoted message said:

The trouble is, drop bars are intimidating for new riders. It's not helped by the very low height
at which they are usually found.

Why? No, it's a serious question. What's intimidating about a curvy piece of aluminum piping? The
low height is obviously a real live issue, especially with the bike shops being infested with racer
wannabe sales people. But I never found drop bars 'wierd' or 'uncomfortable' or 'intimidating'. Not
even as a very unfit teenager just hopping on a road bike for the first time.

Quoted message said:

A straight-bar road bike, or a drop-bar road bike with wide bars, cyclocross levers, and a higher
bar height, would do; but such bikes are probably out of the specified price range.

I added some cross levers to my wife's new bike, which seemed to make her much happier with the
setup. I would probably never use them on one of my bikes, but if $20 on some gadgetry makes her
happy, easy enough. Plus it was an excuse for me to pull out the cable cutters and fiddle with a
new gewgaw.

--
Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g
Q: How many surrealists does it take to change a light bulb?
R: Two, one to hold the giraffe, and the other to fill the bathtub with brightly colored
machine tools.

David Reuteler said:

Rick Onanian <[email hidden]> wrote:
: or a drop-bar road bike with wide bars,

Quoted message said:

i've always wondered about the motivation behind wide bars. i'm 6'2" but fairly narrow (39cm
shoulders) and i've always ridden 39 or 40cm c-c bars and liked 'em. i rode a 42cm c-c bar for
about 6 months and it always felt a little awkward .. for a shorter time 44cm c-c felt very
awkward. anything larger dowright awful.

Quoted message said:

do people that like 'em wide like 'em because you're wide and they actually fit whereas before
you'd been forced onto small bars or are they actually quite a bit wider than your shoulders and
you find that to be a good thing. if so, what is it about bars that are wider than your shoulders
that you like?

I have fairly broad shoulders, and I've always used 44 cm c-c bars. I have a alternate bike with
smaller bars, and I just feel squished on it. It would probably be more aero to go with smaller
bars, but comfort is the important thing to me.

Quoted message said:

i'm not buying the opening up your lungs line, either.

Next you'll tell me you don't believe me about them putting out the baby, winding the cat, and
spanking the clock.

--
Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g "A University without students is like an
ointment without a fly." -- Ed Nather, professor of astronomy at UT Austin

Quoted message said:

Rick Onanian <[email hidden]> wrote:
: or a drop-bar road bike with wide bars,

David Reuteler said:

i've always wondered about the motivation behind wide bars. i'm 6'2" but

<snip>

Quoted message said:

do people that like 'em wide like 'em because you're wide and they actually fit whereas before
you'd been forced onto small bars or are they actually quite a bit wider than your shoulders and
you find that to be a good thing.

Wider bars give you more length of the tops to ride on. Somebody who's looking at mountain bikes
with flat bars is expecting to put their hands a certain distance from the stem. They've test-
ridden bikes with wide flat bars, which steer differently (less sensitive, for example) than narrow
drop bars.

Quoted message said:

if so, what is it about bars that are wider than your shoulders that you like?

Not me. Just a guess at something to help a newbie. The point was that they could grip the tops
similar to how they grip a flat bar.

Quoted message said:

i'm not buying the opening up your lungs line, either.

Why not?
--
Rick Onanian

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 21:31:19 GMT, Dane Jackson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The trouble is, drop bars are intimidating for new riders. It's not helped by the very low height
at which they are usually found.

Why? No, it's a serious question. What's intimidating about a curvy piece of aluminum piping? The
low height is obviously a real live issue, especially with the bike shops being infested with racer
wannabe sales people. But I never found drop bars 'wierd' or 'uncomfortable' or 'intimidating'. Not
even as a very unfit teenager just hopping on a road bike for the first time.

A modern newbie looking at mountain bikes, who has already test-ridden mountain bikes, will feel
unstable on a road bike, gripping the bar so close to the stem. Not having brake levers available
where he wants to grip makes it worse. And the low height. If he doesn't grip the tops, then he'll
be down in the drops, which is a bit difficult (again, given the low height) for a brand-new rider,
and which also provides sensitive steering.

Quoted message said:

I added some cross levers to my wife's new bike, which seemed to make her much happier with the
setup. I would probably never use them on one of my bikes, but if $20 on some gadgetry makes her
happy, easy

That's it...just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it won't work for somebody else. $20
is cheap for a bike part that actually increases one's happiness with a bike.

Quoted message said:

enough. Plus it was an excuse for me to pull out the cable cutters and fiddle with a new gewgaw.

I can't seem to justify (to myself) the money for cable cutters when my Dremel does such a nice,
clean job nearly as fast. I'd rather save it for a trainer or something...
--
Rick Onanian

Dane Jackson said:

Rick Onanian said:

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 09:02:07 -0500, Luigi de Guzman <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Agreed. If he wants to do 95 percent of his riding on pavement, then prioritize that first, and
get an entry-level roadie. However, with

Quoted message said:

The trouble is, drop bars are intimidating for new riders. It's not helped by the very low height
at which they are usually found.

Why? No, it's a serious question. What's intimidating about a curvy piece of aluminum piping? The
low height is obviously a real live issue, especially with the bike shops being infested with
racer wannabe sales people. But I never found drop bars 'wierd' or 'uncomfortable' or
'intimidating'. Not even as a very unfit teenager just hopping on a road bike for the first time.

I feel the same way, but perhaps people just learning to ride as adults have a different experience.
I'm at somewhat of a loss to see why, but I've seen it reported. It's certainly often easier to
learn new things at a young age. It's not easy to remember what it was like to ride a bicycle for
the very first time -- I think the perceived difficulty gets muted over time.

--
Benjamin Lewis

"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you
underneath. At night, the ice weasels come." --Matt Groening

Volpe
"K. David Marple" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Howdy,

I live in Portland, Or and a friend is looking for a new bike in the $300 to $600 range, not
including helmet, shoes, light...etc. They are reserving $200 for those items.

He is looking to ride 95% of the time on the road, but with the option to do some off.

Today we looked at Gary Fisher, Trek, Giant, Specialized, Cannondale and a few others I can't
remember atm. We went to 5 different shops and looked at lots of stuff including a shop where it
seems they only put out bikes that are gone over from one end to the other before they go out. In
fact I think they said there really isn't a bike they sell that they don't make some changes to
due to certain things being below quality from the factory. Bearings and such that you can't see
under the name brand components. They might have had 6 bikes in the shop, which makes me think
they really do put out bikes just for the person they are selling them to.

Most of the bikes had Shimano on them and the people we talked to seemed to think Deoreo(sp) was a
good set to have. Most of the people pressed disc brakes due in part to the high amount of rain we
have here and the ease of changing tires, except for the 'custom' shop who thought you were giving
up too much money just for disc brakes and should spend your budget on the other items. Not to
mention the torque placed on the spokes was different than what bike spokes have been asked to do
for the past 100 years.

I'm wondering if anyone here has any suggestions to pass on, things to avoid, questions to ask the
shops, things to look for, etc.

Thanks to all in advance.

Dennis Johnston said:

Volpe

No. Jamis Aurora.

-Luigi

Quoted message said:

Howdy,

I live in Portland, Or and a friend is looking for a new bike in the $300 to $600 range, not
including helmet, shoes, light...etc. They are reserving $200 for those items.

He is looking to ride 95% of the time on the road, but with the option to do some off.

Today we looked at Gary Fisher, Trek, Giant, Specialized, Cannondale and a few others I can't
remember atm. We went to 5 different shops and looked at lots of stuff including a shop where it
seems they only put out bikes that are gone over from one end to the other before they go out. In
fact I think they said there really isn't a bike they sell that they don't make some changes to
due to certain things being below quality from the factory. Bearings and such that you can't see
under the name brand components. They might have had 6 bikes in the shop, which makes me think
they really do put out bikes just for the person they are selling them to.

Most of the bikes had Shimano on them and the people we talked to seemed to think Deoreo(sp) was a
good set to have. Most of the people pressed disc brakes due in part to the high amount of rain we
have here and the ease of changing tires, except for the 'custom' shop who thought you were giving
up too much money just for disc brakes and should spend your budget on the other items. Not to
mention the torque placed on the spokes was different than what bike spokes have been asked to do
for the past 100 years.

I'm wondering if anyone here has any suggestions to pass on, things to avoid, questions to ask the
shops, things to look for, etc.

Thanks to all in advance.

My first non department store bike was a Trek 7200. I modified it slightly by adding a straight bar,
bar ends and aerobars. This provided the best number of hand positions for long road rides and a
controlling feeling when riding on bumpy surfaces. Of course for this to work I needed an adjustable
stem that allowed me to position the handle bars straight forward with probably a 0 to 5 degree
rise. I also swapped out the tires for slicks which my dealer did not charge extra for.

Another word of advice is to stick with 700c rims for road riding and not 26" unless your off road
rides require muddy conditions. The overall performance will be drastic.

Dan.

"David Reuteler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Rick Onanian <[email hidden]> wrote:
: or a drop-bar road bike with wide bars,

i've always wondered about the motivation behind wide bars. i'm 6'2" but fairly narrow (39cm
shoulders) and i've always ridden 39 or 40cm c-c bars and liked 'em. i rode a 42cm c-c bar for
about 6 months and it always felt a little awkward .. for a shorter time 44cm c-c felt very
awkward. anything larger dowright awful.

do people that like 'em wide like 'em because you're wide and they actually fit whereas before
you'd been forced onto small bars or are they actually quite a bit wider than your shoulders and
you find that to be a good thing. if so, what is it about bars that are wider than your shoulders
that you like?

I didn't think bar width made much difference until I swapped my 42 for a 46, of course my shoulders
are 46-ish, so I was riding too small bars. Some people like too-small bars, I found (belatedly)
that I didn't. On my fixed-gear bike, I have even wider bars, I particularly like the width when
riding out of the saddle, something I do frequently on a fixer.

When I set up a commuter for my wife, I used a flat (short commute), very wide bar (actually a
"downhill" MTB bar). I told her to ride it then tell me how much to cut off. She told me she didn't
want any removed. I worry that the bar is too wide for best safety in traffic, but she's adamant.
Her concern is all about road hazards, and she feels the leverage of wide bars (together with fatter
tires) make things safer. Who am I to argue? Especially since I've seen 3 (coincidentally perhaps,
women) crash this year after hitting a road hazard and losing control.

[email hidden] (K. David Marple) wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Howdy,

I live in Portland, Or and a friend is looking for a new bike in the $300 to $600 range, not
including helmet, shoes, light...etc. They are reserving $200 for those items.

He is looking to ride 95% of the time on the road, but with the option to do some off.

Today we looked at Gary Fisher, Trek, Giant, Specialized, Cannondale and a few others I can't
remember atm. We went to 5 different shops and looked at lots of stuff including a shop where it
seems they only put out bikes that are gone over from one end to the other before they go out. In
fact I think they said there really isn't a bike they sell that they don't make some changes to
due to certain things being below quality from the factory. Bearings and such that you can't see
under the name brand components. They might have had 6 bikes in the shop, which makes me think
they really do put out bikes just for the person they are selling them to.

Most of the bikes had Shimano on them and the people we talked to seemed to think Deoreo(sp) was a
good set to have. Most of the people pressed disc brakes due in part to the high amount of rain we
have here and the ease of changing tires, except for the 'custom' shop who thought you were giving
up too much money just for disc brakes and should spend your budget on the other items. Not to
mention the torque placed on the spokes was different than what bike spokes have been asked to do
for the past 100 years.

I'm wondering if anyone here has any suggestions to pass on, things to avoid, questions to ask the
shops, things to look for, etc.

Thanks to all in advance.

Surly CrossCheck.

surlybikes.comSpecsCroCheFra.htmlOpen ↗

You don't need disk brakes.

In article <ERnZb.85326$jk2.432921@attbi_s53>,

Peter Cole said:

I have even wider bars, I particularly like the width when riding out of the saddle, something I
do frequently on a fixer.

When I set up a commuter for my wife, I used a flat (short commute), very wide bar (actually a
"downhill" MTB bar). I told her to ride it then tell me how much to cut off. She told me she
didn't want any removed. I worry that the bar is too wide for best safety in traffic, but she's
adamant. Her concern is all about road hazards, and she feels the leverage of wide bars (together
with fatter tires) make things safer.

I've certainly grown to appreciate my (super) wide MTB riser handlebar. The slower steering response
is great for track stands, as well as grinding up steepnesses, or tracking over straight 'n narrow
stuff in a more-or-less straight line. I used to be concerned about their safety in traffic too, but
I think drivers tend to pass me with a wider berth than they otherwise would. I've even increased
their width with a handlebar mirror (one of those velcro-on jobs) out of sheer bloody-mindedness.
They also preempt any temptations on my part to get too close to any door zones.

My handlebar measures 27.5" (about 70 cm) across at the widest. They indicate to drivers: "This
space is occupied".

cheers, Tom
--
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