New 1/8" interlock chain - any thoughts?

"[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

There's a new chain for sale (patents pending) by this company which
consists entirely of half links:
http://www.theshadowconspiracy.com/main.html (flash content - navigate
to Interlock chain).

I was wondering if anyone is using it or has any thoughts on the
information provided on their website. They claim it is stronger and
offers more adjustability over normal chains.

Joss

Can`t see how patents could be `pending` as I have seen this type of chain
in use on agriculural muck spreaders, quarrying machinery, conveyor belt
drive systems, road pavers etc. in various sizes (mostly 2" - 3" half links)
.. Various connecting systems are used including nuts washers and bolts,
headed bolt and washers with split pins or R clips and peened rivets with
washers. The smallest that I have seen were in an old tape recorder. The
pitch on the recorder chains must have been about 1/16".

Colin N.

email hidden said:

There's a new chain for sale (patents pending) by this company which
consists entirely of half links:
http://www.theshadowconspiracy.com/main.html (flash content - navigate
to Interlock chain).

I was wondering if anyone is using it or has any thoughts on the
information provided on their website. They claim it is stronger and
offers more adjustability over normal chains.

Their patent should not be granted. I have seen this type of chain on
machinery that's from a century ago. There is nothing novel about
their design or this application.

There is no advantage in using more than one half-link in a chain.

I am amused by their statement that the chain is not recommended for
9-tooth sprockets.

IMO, this is snake oil.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Werehatrack said:

email hidden said:

There's a new chain for sale (patents pending) by this company which
consists entirely of half links:
http://www.theshadowconspiracy.com/main.html (flash content -
navigate to Interlock chain).

I was wondering if anyone is using it or has any thoughts on the
information provided on their website. They claim it is stronger and
offers more adjustability over normal chains.

Their patent should not be granted. I have seen this type of chain on
machinery that's from a century ago. There is nothing novel about
their design or this application.

There is no advantage in using more than one half-link in a chain.

I am amused by their statement that the chain is not recommended for
9-tooth sprockets.

I like this line:

"What is the warranty of the chain?"
"There is no warranty."

That should give users lots of confidence, especially when the designing
company has none.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

"Werehatrack" wrote: Their patent should not be granted. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"Patent Pending" is a very interesting part of marketing a product. Once a
patent is granted, the claims are open to the world, and the clock starts to
run toward expiration. Anyone is free to try to evade the patent, or just
ignore it. The inventor has the burden of enforcing the patent, and he may
lose.

With "Patent Pending" on the product, the claims are kept secret, so
competitors are in the dark about what is going to be protected--they can
only guess, so they are at greater risk if they start infringing. And the
time toward expiration of the patent has not started. So, if the inventor
wants to, he can deliberately keep batting the claims back and forth with
the patent office, to make the pending part run for years, thus gaining more
years of protection.

We don't know what this inventor is claiming in his application. It could
be something about the bevel on the pins, or the alloy of the metal, or some
other minor feature.

Leo Lichtman said:

"Werehatrack" wrote: Their patent should not be granted. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"Patent Pending" is a very interesting part of marketing a product. Once a
patent is granted, the claims are open to the world, and the clock starts to
run toward expiration. Anyone is free to try to evade the patent, or just
ignore it. The inventor has the burden of enforcing the patent, and he may
lose.

With "Patent Pending" on the product, the claims are kept secret, so
competitors are in the dark about what is going to be protected--they can
only guess, so they are at greater risk if they start infringing. And the
time toward expiration of the patent has not started. So, if the inventor
wants to, he can deliberately keep batting the claims back and forth with
the patent office, to make the pending part run for years, thus gaining more
years of protection.

We don't know what this inventor is claiming in his application. It could
be something about the bevel on the pins, or the alloy of the metal, or some
other minor feature.

U.S. patent law has changed, mainly because of abuse of the old
system be Lemelson. In the past, patents were good for 17 years
from the date of issue, but now, when a patent is granted, it
expires 20 years after first filing, not after when it is granted,
so the tactic of keeping it pending for long periods is less
effective.

Dave Lehnen

Werehatrack said:

I am amused by their statement that the chain is not recommended for
9-tooth sprockets.

9-tooth sprockets are common in newer high-end BMX and freestyle bikes.
9- to 13-tooth sprockets were made possible by the development of the
single-speed BMX cassette hub.

The advantage, if there is one, lies in the ability to use a compact
drivetrain (epitomized by a 25/9 gear ratio). It may be hard on chains
and sprocket teeth (not to mention drivetrain efficiency), but it
allows very small, relatively lightweight chainrings that tolerate
"grinding" on integral or ring-mounted bashguards.

http://www.danscomp.com/cgi-bin/hazel.cgi?action=DETAIL&item=457151

Chalo Colina

Chalo said:

Werehatrack said:

I am amused by their statement that the chain is not recommended for
9-tooth sprockets.

9-tooth sprockets are common in newer high-end BMX and freestyle
bikes. 9- to 13-tooth sprockets were made possible by the development
of the single-speed BMX cassette hub.

The advantage, if there is one, lies in the ability to use a compact
drivetrain (epitomized by a 25/9 gear ratio). It may be hard on
chains and sprocket teeth (not to mention drivetrain efficiency), but
it allows very small, relatively lightweight chainrings that tolerate
"grinding" on integral or ring-mounted bashguards.

http://www.danscomp.com/cgi-bin/hazel.cgi?action=DETAIL&item=457151

Not to mention vastly increased ground clearance.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Phil said:

Chalo said:

Werehatrack said:

I am amused by their statement that the chain is not recommended for
9-tooth sprockets.

9-tooth sprockets are common in newer high-end BMX and freestyle
bikes. 9- to 13-tooth sprockets were made possible by the development
of the single-speed BMX cassette hub.

The advantage, if there is one, lies in the ability to use a compact
drivetrain (epitomized by a 25/9 gear ratio). It may be hard on
chains and sprocket teeth (not to mention drivetrain efficiency), but
it allows very small, relatively lightweight chainrings that tolerate
"grinding" on integral or ring-mounted bashguards.

http://www.danscomp.com/cgi-bin/hazel.cgi?action=DETAIL&item=457151

Not to mention vastly increased ground clearance.

is this an opportunity for shimano to re-introduce their 10mm chain
pitch drive system? same result in terms of sprocket diameter but
without the mechanical problems of low tooth count. there's plenty of
10mm industrial chain available.

Quoted message said:

There's a new chain for sale (patents pending) by this company which
consists entirely of half links:
http://www.theshadowconspiracy.com/main.html (flash content - navigate
to Interlock chain).

I was wondering if anyone is using it or has any thoughts on the
information provided on their website. They claim it is stronger and
offers more adjustability over normal chains.

I don't see where the adjustability is an issue, except for a single speed or
hub gear bike that doesn't have enough adjustability at the rear dropout. Maybe
with this chain you can forget about the usual solutions, like chain tensioners
or eccentric axle ends.

Matt O.

"jim beam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Phil said:

Chalo said:

Werehatrack wrote:

>I am amused by their statement that the chain is not recommended for
>9-tooth sprockets.

9-tooth sprockets are common in newer high-end BMX and freestyle
bikes. 9- to 13-tooth sprockets were made possible by the development
of the single-speed BMX cassette hub.

The advantage, if there is one, lies in the ability to use a compact
drivetrain (epitomized by a 25/9 gear ratio). It may be hard on
chains and sprocket teeth (not to mention drivetrain efficiency), but
it allows very small, relatively lightweight chainrings that tolerate
"grinding" on integral or ring-mounted bashguards.

http://www.danscomp.com/cgi-bin/hazel.cgi?action=DETAIL&item=457151

Not to mention vastly increased ground clearance.

is this an opportunity for shimano to re-introduce their 10mm chain pitch
drive system? same result in terms of sprocket diameter but without the
mechanical problems of low tooth count. there's plenty of 10mm industrial
chain available.

Can you elaborate? Pics? What reduction in mechanical problems?

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Phil said:

"jim beam" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

is this an opportunity for shimano to re-introduce their 10mm chain pitch
drive system? same result in terms of sprocket diameter but without the
mechanical problems of low tooth count. there's plenty of 10mm industrial
chain available.

Can you elaborate? Pics? What reduction in mechanical problems?

Below 13 teeth, the meshing action between a roller chain and sprocket
grows substantially harsher and noisier (with vastly accelerated wear
rates) for each reduction in tooth count. Roller chain sprockets come
in tooth counts as low as 6, but even in industrial machinery-- with
wide and massive roller chain-- it is best to avoid such small
sprockets when possible.

When a smaller chain pitch length is used, a sprocket of a given
diameter has more teeth on it, and therefore will mesh more smoothly
than the coarser pitch sprocket. Using 10mm pitch in place of 1/2"
pitch would allow a 12 tooth sprocket to replace a 9 tooth sprocket of
approximately the same diameter.

Chalo Colina

Chalo said:

Phil said:

"jim beam" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

is this an opportunity for shimano to re-introduce their 10mm chain pitch
drive system? same result in terms of sprocket diameter but without the
mechanical problems of low tooth count. there's plenty of 10mm industrial
chain available.

Can you elaborate? Pics? What reduction in mechanical problems?

Below 13 teeth, the meshing action between a roller chain and sprocket
grows substantially harsher and noisier (with vastly accelerated wear
rates) for each reduction in tooth count. Roller chain sprockets come
in tooth counts as low as 6, but even in industrial machinery-- with
wide and massive roller chain-- it is best to avoid such small
sprockets when possible.

When a smaller chain pitch length is used, a sprocket of a given
diameter has more teeth on it, and therefore will mesh more smoothly
than the coarser pitch sprocket. Using 10mm pitch in place of 1/2"
pitch would allow a 12 tooth sprocket to replace a 9 tooth sprocket of
approximately the same diameter.

Chalo Colina

perfect answer! thank you.

to elaborate for phil, shimano used to sell a 10mm chain pitch system
for track bikes back in the 70's. 1976, according to this.

http://dura-ace.shimano.com/publish/content/duraace/en/home/history/original_dura-ace.html

never caught on. theoretically, it is a great idea. no reason why it
couldn't be used on derailleur systems as well.

jim beam said:

Chalo said:

Phil said:

"jim beam" <[email hidden]> wrote

> is this an opportunity for shimano to re-introduce their 10mm
> chain pitch drive system? same result in terms of sprocket
> diameter but without the mechanical problems of low tooth count.
> there's plenty of 10mm industrial chain available.

Can you elaborate? Pics? What reduction in mechanical problems?

Below 13 teeth, the meshing action between a roller chain and
sprocket grows substantially harsher and noisier (with vastly
accelerated wear rates) for each reduction in tooth count. Roller
chain sprockets come in tooth counts as low as 6, but even in
industrial machinery-- with wide and massive roller chain-- it is
best to avoid such small sprockets when possible.

When a smaller chain pitch length is used, a sprocket of a given
diameter has more teeth on it, and therefore will mesh more smoothly
than the coarser pitch sprocket. Using 10mm pitch in place of 1/2"
pitch would allow a 12 tooth sprocket to replace a 9 tooth sprocket
of approximately the same diameter.

Chalo Colina

perfect answer! thank you.

to elaborate for phil, shimano used to sell a 10mm chain pitch system
for track bikes back in the 70's. 1976, according to this.

http://dura-ace.shimano.com/publish/content/duraace/en/home/history/original_dura-ace.html

never caught on. theoretically, it is a great idea. no reason why it
couldn't be used on derailleur systems as well.

Cost may have been the factor. What other industrial systems use the
current 1/2" or 1" pitch?

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Phil said:

What other industrial systems use the current 1/2" or 1" pitch?

the most common industrial 1/2" pitch chain is called ANSI #40. It is
much wider than bicycle chain (5/16" between side plates vs. 3/32" for
a derailleur bike chain), with much thicker side plates and pins. It
weighs about 7.75 g per link as opposed to about 2.75 g per link for
bicycle chain. Its rollers are very close to their nominal diameter
of 5/16", while bicycle chain rollers are slightly undersized.

Such chain is used in conveyors and lifts, printing presses, and
agricultural machinery, among many other applications.

Smaller 3/8" or #35 chain is often used for final drive on go-karts and
minibikes, while several specialized variations of 1/2", 5/8", and 3/4"
pitch industrial chains are used for full-sized motorcycles.

Chalo Colina

Dave Lehnen said:

Quoted message said:

We don't know what this inventor is claiming in his application. It could
be something about the bevel on the pins, or the alloy of the metal, or some
other minor feature.

U.S. patent law has changed, mainly because of abuse of the old
system be Lemelson. In the past, patents were good for 17 years
from the date of issue, but now, when a patent is granted, it
expires 20 years after first filing, not after when it is granted,
so the tactic of keeping it pending for long periods is less
effective.

Even more significant is that U.S. patent applications are now
published 18 months after filing, i.e., no more secrecy. This was one
of the reasons prolonging the application process was beneficial in the
past.

DR

Chalo said:

Phil said:

What other industrial systems use the current 1/2" or 1" pitch?

the most common industrial 1/2" pitch chain is called ANSI #40. It is
much wider than bicycle chain (5/16" between side plates vs. 3/32" for
a derailleur bike chain), with much thicker side plates and pins. It
weighs about 7.75 g per link as opposed to about 2.75 g per link for
bicycle chain. Its rollers are very close to their nominal diameter
of 5/16", while bicycle chain rollers are slightly undersized.

Such chain is used in conveyors and lifts, printing presses, and
agricultural machinery, among many other applications.

Smaller 3/8" or #35 chain is often used for final drive on go-karts
and minibikes, while several specialized variations of 1/2", 5/8",
and 3/4" pitch industrial chains are used for full-sized motorcycles.

Chalo Colina

We had a customer come in a few days ago looking for a chain breaker. He
held up his portion of full-size motorcycle chain, and said that the CT-3
would work fine. I said, "uh." He said with a little modification, it
would work. I then asked how much a dedicated tool would be. He said $120.
Wow.

I also asked if they found that the rubber o-rings actually did keep
lubricant completely sealed inside the chain. He said they did.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

"Abiit, excessit, evasit, erupit." - Cicero
On Sun, 29 May 2005 07:05:01 -0700, jim beam <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

there's plenty of
10mm industrial chain available.

Could you point me to a source for 10 mm pitch chain (3 mm wide)?

-------------------------------
John Dacey
Business Cycles, Miami, Florida
http://www.businesscycles.com
Since 1983
Our catalog of track equipment: online since 1996
-------------------------------

Squid-in-Training said:

We had a customer come in a few days ago looking for a chain breaker. He
held up his portion of full-size motorcycle chain, and said that the CT-3
would work fine. I said, "uh." He said with a little modification, it
would work. I then asked how much a dedicated tool would be. He said $120.
Wow.

Dear Phil,

Motorcycle chain breakers that handle much heftier chains
than found on bicycles are $4 to $80 here:

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Browse/showCustom-0/c-10111/Nty-1/Ntx-mode+matchallpartial/N-10101/tf-Browse/in_dym-1/s-10101/Ntk-AllTextSearchGroup?Ntt=chain%20breaker

Bicycle chain breakers are $16 to $40 here:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/tools/chain.html

More bicycle chain breakers are $55 to $95 here:

http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=992156678118&c=Tools&sc=Chain&tc=Rivet%20Pliers

Carl Fogel

[email hidden said:

"]On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:24:02 -0400, "Phil, Squid-in-Training"

Quoted message said:

We had a customer come in a few days ago looking for a chain breaker. He
held up his portion of full-size motorcycle chain, and said that the CT-3
would work fine. I said, "uh." He said with a little modification, it
would work. I then asked how much a dedicated tool would be. He said $120.
Wow.

Dear Phil,

Motorcycle chain breakers that handle much heftier chains
than found on bicycles are $4 to $80 here:

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Browse/showCustom-0/c-10111/Nty-1/Ntx-mode+matchallpartial/N-10101/tf-Browse/in_dym-1/s-10101/Ntk-AllTextSearchGroup?Ntt=chain%20breaker

Bicycle chain breakers are $16 to $40 here:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/tools/chain.html

More bicycle chain breakers are $55 to $95 here:

http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=992156678118&c=Tools&sc=Chain&tc=Rivet%20Pliers

Carl Fogel

And given that they are the sam pitch motorcycle chains can be used on bikes (there is one on the fixed gear gallery) - can't remember what number it was though.

Found it here.

fixedgeargallery.complass.htmOpen ↗