Needed new bike design

cmcanulty said:

I think the thing needed for practical winter riding where snow
and salt are the norm is a fully enclosed drivetrain

That does exists for decades already, with internal gear hubs or
single speed.

Quoted message said:

and brake system.

Tricky, as you need to get the heat off somehow.

--
MfG/Best regards
helmut springer

cmcanulty said:

I think the thing needed for practical winter riding where snow and
salt are the norm is a fully enclosed drivetrain and brake system. Why
has no one come up with this? It would also greatly ease cleaning and
maintenance chores for everyone.

Internal hub with a nickel plated chain. You don't need a chain guard
if you don't want one. I commuted with this setup for years in Chicago
winters.I'd have an old towel or rag handy and wipe the [censored] off the
chain when I got home. Wet lube once weekly and no trouble at all. I
like those KMC "heavy duty" bmx chains for winter use with Nexus and
Sram hubs. Strong, cheap, and say FU to the elements.

landotter said:

cmcanulty said:

I think the thing needed for practical winter riding where snow and
salt are the norm is a fully enclosed drivetrain and brake system. Why
has no one come up with this? It would also greatly ease cleaning and
maintenance chores for everyone.

Internal hub with a nickel plated chain. You don't need a chain guard
if you don't want one. I commuted with this setup for years in Chicago
winters.I'd have an old towel or rag handy and wipe the [censored] off the
chain when I got home. Wet lube once weekly and no trouble at all. I
like those KMC "heavy duty" bmx chains for winter use with Nexus and
Sram hubs. Strong, cheap, and say FU to the elements.

What he said, but you can even skip the wet lube and wipe off bit if
you want. Comes with internal foot brake too if you want.

Joseph

Quoted message said:

landotter said:

cmcanulty said:

I think the thing needed for practical winter riding where snow and
salt are the norm is a fully enclosed drivetrain and brake system. Why
has no one come up with this? It would also greatly ease cleaning and
maintenance chores for everyone.

Internal hub with a nickel plated chain. You don't need a chain guard
if you don't want one. I commuted with this setup for years in Chicago
winters.I'd have an old towel or rag handy and wipe the [censored] off the
chain when I got home. Wet lube once weekly and no trouble at all. I
like those KMC "heavy duty" bmx chains for winter use with Nexus and
Sram hubs. Strong, cheap, and say FU to the elements.

What he said, but you can even skip the wet lube and wipe off bit if
you want. Comes with internal foot brake too if you want.

Joseph

Or roller brake. I liked how mine had traditional cantis with Eagle
Claws up front and an ultra reliable roller brake in rear. Another
thing: if it's really cold, moisture in cable housings can freeze and
disable your brakes. I spritz of your choice of lube in the housings at
the beginning of the winter can prevent this. I used to always use it
as an excuse to bring my bike into a pub to warm up the brake lines.
Nothing like a nice pint for the rider either. :-D

cmcanulty said:

I think the thing needed for practical winter riding where snow and
salt are the norm is a fully enclosed drivetrain and brake system. Why
has no one come up with this? It would also greatly ease cleaning and
maintenance chores for everyone.

Well, they've been made since 1889, but if you can find one it's going to
be expensive.

http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/Museum/Transport/bicycles/Sunbeam.htm

Mike

Quoted message said:

Well, they've been made since 1889, but if you can find one it's going to
be expensive.

http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/Museum/Transport/bicycles/Sunb...

I like that two speed crankset. Interesting!

Rex Kerr said:

Quoted message said:

Well, they've been made since 1889, but if you can find one it's going to
be expensive.

http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/Museum/Transport/bicycles/Sunb...

I like that two speed crankset. Interesting!

Schlumpf Speed Drive, still expensive:

http://www.google.com/search?num=30&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=schlumpf+mountain+speed+drive+&btnG=Search

Rex Kerr said:

Quoted message said:

Well, they've been made since 1889, but if you can find one it's going to
be expensive.

Quoted message said:

http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/Museum/Transport/bicycles/Sunb...I like that two speed crankset. Interesting!

What I find interesting is that their lightweight race model in 1890
weighed only 16 pounds. That's not all that much more than modern race
bikes. How?? Is it a typo for 26 pounds?

"In 1890 Sunbeam exhibited some interesting new models at the Stanley
Show. Their lightweight road racer weighed only 16 lbs, and the Light
Roadster weighed 29 lbs. Also on display was the spring frame Sunbeam,
an anti-vibration model. Unfortunately the idea did not prove to be
successful due to the launch of J. B. Dunlop's pneumatic tyre."

On 23 Jan 2007 09:44:58 -0800, "cmcanulty" <[email hidden]> may

have said:

I think the thing needed for practical winter riding where snow and
salt are the norm is a fully enclosed drivetrain and brake system. Why
has no one come up with this? It would also greatly ease cleaning and
maintenance chores for everyone.

Huh? I have a bike like that here. It's about 30 years old, and ones
like it were (and probably still are) as common in parts of Europe as
pickup trucks are in Texas. Fully enclosed chain, gearhub, drum
brakes; all of these things have been around since before WWII. The
reason that you don't see them in the US very often is that most
Americans are wimps when it comes to going places, particularly in bad
weather; they drive *everywhere*, even to a store two blocks from
where they live. Even a lot of otherwise avid cyclists won't ride in
rain...and even fewer in snow. Thus, there's just not enough demand
to make it possible to market a bike like that in the US mass-market
arenas profitably. At least, not yet.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Werehatrack said:

On 23 Jan 2007 09:44:58 -0800, "cmcanulty" <[email hidden]> may

have said:

I think the thing needed for practical winter riding where snow and
salt are the norm is a fully enclosed drivetrain and brake system. Why
has no one come up with this? It would also greatly ease cleaning and
maintenance chores for everyone.Huh? I have a bike like that here. It's about 30 years old, and ones

like it were (and probably still are) as common in parts of Europe as
pickup trucks are in Texas. Fully enclosed chain, gearhub, drum
brakes; all of these things have been around since before WWII. The
reason that you don't see them in the US very often is that most
Americans are wimps when it comes to going places, particularly in bad
weather; they drive *everywhere*, even to a store two blocks from
where they live. Even a lot of otherwise avid cyclists won't ride in
rain...and even fewer in snow.

The bravery of the American casual cyclist is certainly lacking (My
neighbors were amazed that I rode errands in a drizzle yesterday), but
that's not the reason we don't have full chain case bikes. It had very
much to do with the weight of imported bikes and the law (duty I
believe). A full chaincase put a lot of bikes right over the limit.
That's the reason my rod brake Raleigh Tourist has a hockey stick
chainguard and not a case.

Quoted message said:

Rex Kerr said:

Quoted message said:

Well, they've been made since 1889, but if you can find one it's going to
be expensive.

Quoted message said:

http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/Museum/Transport/bicycles/Sunb...I like that two speed crankset. Interesting!

What I find interesting is that their lightweight race model in 1890
weighed only 16 pounds. That's not all that much more than modern race
bikes. How?? Is it a typo for 26 pounds?

No brakes, no gears, no mudguards (fenders), but even then without
a lot of aluminium components, which were /very/ expensive and unusual at
the time, I can't see them getting to 16lb. Must be a typo or complete hype.

Mike

Mike Causer said:

Quoted message said:

Rex Kerr said:

>Well, they've been made since 1889, but if you can find one it's going to
> be expensive.

>http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/Museum/Transport/bicycles/Sunb...I like that two speed crankset. Interesting!

What I find interesting is that their lightweight race model in 1890
weighed only 16 pounds. That's not all that much more than modern race
bikes. How?? Is it a typo for 26 pounds?

No brakes, no gears, no mudguards (fenders), but even then without
a lot of aluminium components, which were /very/ expensive and unusual at
the time, I can't see them getting to 16lb. Must be a typo or complete hype.

Mike

Bamboo frames and laminated track wheel sets would get very close and
probably make it in small sizes. Bamboo was light and, when properly
constructed, strong enough for track and cinder track racing. Not
unknown in the 1890s on.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

On 24 Jan 2007 08:39:55 -0800, "landotter" <[email hidden]> may

have said:

The bravery of the American casual cyclist is certainly lacking (My
neighbors were amazed that I rode errands in a drizzle yesterday), but
that's not the reason we don't have full chain case bikes. It had very
much to do with the weight of imported bikes and the law (duty I
believe). A full chaincase put a lot of bikes right over the limit.
That's the reason my rod brake Raleigh Tourist has a hockey stick
chainguard and not a case.

The regs were doubtless devised carefully; I have no doubt that the
limits were established at just the point at which the typical non-US
bike would be over the low-tariff limit. Of course, there are many
ways to address such an obstacle, but the obvious one in this instance
was to simply acknowledge that US riders didn't care about a full
chain case anyway, and delete the non-feature to save weight and cost.
(Not that it weighs that much, really; the one on my Puch isn't much
more than a pound.)

If full-case chains were in demand in the US market in the era when
bikes were still made here, rest assured that Murray, Huffy, Schwinn
and Columbia (among others) would have commonly provided them. That
they didn't is ample evidence of the absence of demand in the
marketplace...and it wasn't a matter of weight on a bike that already
weighed 40 lbs, as plenty of them did in those days.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Werehatrack said:

On 24 Jan 2007 08:39:55 -0800, "landotter" <[email hidden]> may

have said:

The bravery of the American casual cyclist is certainly lacking (My
neighbors were amazed that I rode errands in a drizzle yesterday), but
that's not the reason we don't have full chain case bikes. It had very
much to do with the weight of imported bikes and the law (duty I
believe). A full chaincase put a lot of bikes right over the limit.
That's the reason my rod brake Raleigh Tourist has a hockey stick
chainguard and not a case.The regs were doubtless devised carefully; I have no doubt that the

limits were established at just the point at which the typical non-US
bike would be over the low-tariff limit. Of course, there are many
ways to address such an obstacle, but the obvious one in this instance
was to simply acknowledge that US riders didn't care about a full
chain case anyway, and delete the non-feature to save weight and cost.
(Not that it weighs that much, really; the one on my Puch isn't much
more than a pound.)

If full-case chains were in demand in the US market in the era when
bikes were still made here, rest assured that Murray, Huffy, Schwinn
and Columbia (among others) would have commonly provided them. That
they didn't is ample evidence of the absence of demand in the
marketplace...and it wasn't a matter of weight on a bike that already
weighed 40 lbs, as plenty of them did in those days.

Tut tut, you know as well as I, that the bicycle marketplace isn't so
much driven by the needs or demands of the consumer as by trends. :-P

The Swedes could have well done with closed chain cases as well,
considering the climate, but Swedish made bikes rarely had them. It was
as much a feature on British and Dutch roadsters as a styling element.
The Swedes had their own style, check out some of the neato full guards
here:

http://www.cykelhistoriska.se/sofiero06.html

Could you at least send over the part and install it yourself then? If so
inclined.

SN

On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 00:56:09 GMT, "nash" <[email hidden]>

may have said:

Could you at least send over the part and install it yourself then? If so
inclined.

They're remarkably non-portable between frames.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Curtis L. Russell said:

Bamboo frames and laminated track wheel sets would get very close and
probably make it in small sizes. Bamboo was light and, when properly
constructed, strong enough for track and cinder track racing. Not
unknown in the 1890s on.

....or even today:

http://www.calfeedesign.com/pages/bamboo.php

Matt O.