need to strengthen upper back?

Sounds like a fit issue. i just set up another bike, after 2 hours my shoulders would start to hurt and burn. i was to close to the bars thuss causing more weight to be put on my shoulders. have a friend hold up your bike, get in your ride postition and take your hands off the bars, if you fall foward it's a fit issue. maybe move the seat back or a longer stem. by the way i was also hunching my shoulders.

beckyl said:

I am a 40 yo road cyclist who does charity rides.

The first thing that hurts when I ride a "longer" ride is my shoulders. I'm pretty sure my bike is properly fitted - - so let's just ignore that possibility for now.

I think I ride with my shoulders up by my ears a little bit. When I concentrate on dropping my shoulders, this helps. But I have tried for months to get in that habit and always go back to hunching if I stop concentrating.

I think I need to strengthen some back muscles. Any ideas on what exercise to try?😕

I'm afraid I agree that it's most likely a fit issue. Unless you have an unusual pre-existing condition that limits you, generally riding a bicycle that is fit properly is not limited by strength of anykind - upper or lower body.

zaskar said "have a friend hold up your bike, get in your ride postition and take your hands off the bars, if you fall foward it's a fit issue"

I do not fall forward in that situation.

I had the bike fit at a very good LBS. When I asked them this question they said I probably just wasn't used to those longer rides yet and it would eventually go away as I did more of them. I have found this to be true . . . I used to hurt at30 and 40 miles. Now I don't start until 70 or 80 miles . . .
. . . still, I was hoping to avoid the pain :o

My pre-existing condition is 3 teenagers and a pre-teen! Plus, I am generally a stressed out person and hunch my shoulders whenever I get tense.

What muscles hold your shoulders down? Lats?

beckyl said:

zaskar said "have a friend hold up your bike, get in your ride postition and take your hands off the bars, if you fall foward it's a fit issue"

I do not fall forward in that situation.

I had the bike fit at a very good LBS. When I asked them this question they said I probably just wasn't used to those longer rides yet and it would eventually go away as I did more of them. I have found this to be true . . . I used to hurt at30 and 40 miles. Now I don't start until 70 or 80 miles . . .
. . . still, I was hoping to avoid the pain :o

My pre-existing condition is 3 teenagers and a pre-teen! Plus, I am generally a stressed out person and hunch my shoulders whenever I get tense.

What muscles hold your shoulders down? Lats?

When you are in a standing position (let's assume no gravity for a moment), your lats are the primary mover for pulling the shoulders away from the ears. However, when in a cycling position, this role moves more and more to the chest muscles (serratus anterior, pectoralis major and minor) as your arms move more and more out in front of you (envision a push up). If you sit rather upright on the bike, it's a combination of the two.
But again, keep in mind that it's not strength, but rather muscular endurance that you would be looking to work on. And if you have a regular issue with hunching your shoulders, I recommend a visit to a sports physical therapist who can teach you some quality exercises/stretches that you can do on your own to counteract your habit.

Smartt/RST said:

. . .And if you have a regular issue with hunching your shoulders, I recommend a visit to a sports physical therapist who can teach you some quality exercises/stretches that you can do on your own to counteract your habit.

Thanks. I will do this . . . I assume you are suggesting I NOT simply use the trainer I've used off and on? She has a BA in exercise physiology and works as a trainer at a few small clubs . . . but it sounds like you are suggesting this wouldn't be good enough.

beckyl said:

Thanks. I will do this . . . I assume you are suggesting I NOT simply use the trainer I've used off and on? She has a BA in exercise physiology and works as a trainer at a few small clubs . . . but it sounds like you are suggesting this wouldn't be good enough.

No, that should be fine. I'm sure she knows the difference between muscular strength and endurance. Btw, I'm always working with my clients to not hunch their shoulders while performing a multitude of exercises...its' very common.

As a posture comment off the bike.

Core stability may be the key word even though your focus is on your shoulder area. It is an overall balance through these muscle groups that help in retaining good posture.

Good posture is a balance of abdominal and back strength and as it was just stated it is a sustained strength. It not only takes physical effort to strengthen the torso stability, but it takes a mental focus of repeating to yourself not to slouch. Kind of like I am doing while typing this. 😄 Yelling at myself not to slouch while at the computer. It will take time to strengthen these muscle groups so be patient.

Do a web search on "core stability" and you will find a lot of information.
Some listed below.

exercise.about.comcoreandposture.htmOpen ↗

sportsinjurybulletin.comsports injury.htmlOpen ↗

mayoclinic.cominvoke.cfmOpen ↗

pponline.co.uk0701.htmOpen ↗+

I used to suffer from shoulder, wrist and lower back pain when I rode. Since that time, I haven't really altered my riding position much. I would even get tingling pain in my wrists and all types of pains. For some reason, all these symptoms just vanished. One possibility is the problem may have been linked to my hayfever symptoms but all I know is I'm fine at present.
You could try massage with some deep heat that might help. You haven't said whether you spend much time in the drops since too much time leaning forward can cause one or two aches.
Bike-fit is also worth checking out as the others have stated.

beckyl said:

I am a 40 yo road cyclist who does charity rides.

The first thing that hurts when I ride a "longer" ride is my shoulders. I'm pretty sure my bike is properly fitted - - so let's just ignore that possibility for now.

I think I ride with my shoulders up by my ears a little bit. When I concentrate on dropping my shoulders, this helps. But I have tried for months to get in that habit and always go back to hunching if I stop concentrating.

I think I need to strengthen some back muscles. Any ideas on what exercise to try?😕

zaskar said:

Sounds like a fit issue. i just set up another bike, after 2 hours my shoulders would start to hurt and burn. i was to close to the bars thuss causing more weight to be put on my shoulders. have a friend hold up your bike, get in your ride postition and take your hands off the bars, if you fall foward it's a fit issue. maybe move the seat back or a longer stem. by the way i was also hunching my shoulders.

Are you saying that the guy in this picture is not going to do a big face plant right into his stem if he removes his hands from the handlebars?

How can someone not do a face plant unless they are riding in an upright position as they would on a beach cruiser?

The reason I ask is because my hands get so numb it becomes painful.

Disclaimer: I know there are better pics somewhere of people riding their bikes but most shots I see are "action" shots where the riders were in the drops, standing, catching big air or some other such thing. Actually had some trouble just finding a pic of somebody simply riding a bike. That's why I picked this one although it may not be the best representation available.

Felt_Rider said:

As a posture comment off the bike.

Core stability may be the key word even though your focus is on your shoulder area. It is an overall balance through these muscle groups that help in retaining good posture.

Good posture is a balance of abdominal and back strength and as it was just stated it is a sustained strength. It not only takes physical effort to strengthen the torso stability, but it takes a mental focus of repeating to yourself not to slouch. Kind of like I am doing while typing this. 😄 Yelling at myself not to slouch while at the computer. It will take time to strengthen these muscle groups so be patient.

Do a web search on "core stability" and you will find a lot of information.
Some listed below.

exercise.about.comcoreandposture.htmOpen ↗

sportsinjurybulletin.comsports injury.htmlOpen ↗

mayoclinic.cominvoke.cfmOpen ↗

pponline.co.uk0701.htmOpen ↗+

This is very helpful. Core issues are something I've just started thinking about.

As far as what Doctor Morbius says: When I said I didn't fall forward I meant that I could stay in that position for at least the few minutes I tried it (it wasn't difficult) and sit back up without struggling. Maybe this is related to core training for some people?

beckyl said:

This is very helpful. Core issues are something I've just started thinking about.

As far as what Doctor Morbius says: When I said I didn't fall forward I meant that I could stay in that position for at least the few minutes I tried it (it wasn't difficult) and sit back up without struggling. Maybe this is related to core training for some people?

So in other words, you're taking the pressure off of your hands/arms and placing it on your lumbar area. Is that correct?

[quote="beckyl"]zaskar
My pre-existing condition is 3 teenagers and a pre-teen! Plus, I am generally a stressed out person and hunch my shoulders whenever I get tense.

LOL i have this condition also!

i agree, it is probably more the core muscles that need strengthening rather that the Lats etc. Also there are a load of small muscles in the shoulder area that become lazy with bad posture and just stop doing their job. In fact working on the Lats can make this condition worse because the smaller muscles become weaker. The same problem exists with ab muscles, the core ones you can't see.
A good sports physio can recommend specific exercises to stregthen these muscles. The shoulder ones are usually with a rubber band thingy and not exactly easy - technique is very important.
I'm saying this because my shoulders and neck muscles are currently in a bad way and i'm just starting to get them sorted.

beckyl, if you relate this to your trainer that you want to focus on "core strength" and you do not feel the attention is given. Let us know and perhaps we can give more advice.

However, it is more beneficial for your trainer to help you since many of the exercises are too difficult to relate through text.

Again the achievement of the this goal could take months (depending on genetics) to see improvement and many people lose focus after a period of time.

Also remember a key word is "balance". The lower & middle back must be as equally trained as the abdominal muscles. If one is substantially stronger than the other it could have a negative effect on posture as well. The abdominal muscles that play the key role in core strength are not developed by doing the normal situps/crunch type exercises. Although those type of exercises are essential as well for other purposes.

One of the abdominal exercises that I was taught by a doctor for an olympic team was to sit on the edge of a bench with an upright position. Take in a deep breath and let out the air. As you exhale flex/tighten you abs and hold as long as you can. Then repeat several more times.

Now days exercise balls, yoga & pilates have become more popular and each of those incorporate exercises that strengthen the core muscle groups.

( chionline.comchionline.comOpen ↗ ) chionline.comyogastretch.htmOpen ↗ for overall strength and flexibility. what kind of bike is it racing bike with drop handle bars? if so maybe you could do with increasing or decreasing the length of your stem?

closesupport said:

( chionline.comchionline.comOpen ↗ ) chionline.comyogastretch.htmOpen ↗ for overall strength and flexibility. what kind of bike is it racing bike with drop handle bars? if so maybe you could do with increasing or decreasing the length of your stem?

The brake has drop bars . . . it's actually more comfortable on my shoulders when I use them (my upper back relaxes) but I rarely stay in them for longer than 20 min. I think I just sit up to talk but maybe I'm tired and don't realize it.

Anyway, I wanted to pass on that for the chest muscles to exercise I found this site
[url="http://www.exrx.net/Lists/ExList/ChestWt.html"][u]exrx.netChestWt.htmlOpen ↗[/u][/url]

I assume that I would just do low weight and lots of reps to work on endurance of these muscles (which is always what I've been told on bike related weight training). I'm still waiting to hear back from that trainer . . .

Thanks!

Becky L

[quote="beckyl"]The brake has drop bars . . . it's actually more comfortable on my shoulders when I use them (my upper back relaxes) but I rarely stay in them for longer than 20 min. I think I just sit up to talk but maybe I'm tired and don't realize it.

Anyway, I wanted to pass on that for the chest muscles to exercise I found this site
[url="http://www.exrx.net/Lists/ExList/ChestWt.html"][u]exrx.netChestWt.htmlOpen ↗[/u][/url]

I assume that I would just do low weight and lots of reps to work on endurance of these muscles (which is always what I've been told on bike related weight training). I'm still waiting to hear back from that trainer . . .

Thanks!

Becky L[/QUOTE]when your in the drop bar position how much gap is there between your elbow and your knee at the most forward position of the pedal stroke, there should be 1 or 2 inches gap between them both if the gap is greater than that (shorten the stem) or less to the point that you have to move your elbows to prevent them from coliding you will find that your stem needs lengthening. i personally think it is a bike fit issue where your over extending in the most upright position which is enabling you to hunch due to over extending.

here is a site i find helpful;
pponline.co.ukcycling.htmOpen ↗

along with

brianmac.demon.co.ukbrianmac.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

you can contact brian mackensie for advice he is really informative and helpful 😉

best of luck
chris

Just an update:

I just finished the BP MS150. Because of the shoulder pain I was having I did the following:

*scooted my seat forawrd a few millimeters
*worked on pec major & minor and serratus anterior
*stretched a lot during the ride
*practiced keeping my shoulders down

It's hard to say what helped the most, but I'd guess the last one. I did have a little pain in my right shoulder towards the end and I was a little tight the next morning, but generally I felt pretty good.

I also wonder if the albuterol inhaler I started taking for wheezing helped? Perhaps I was lifting my shoulders trying to open up my lungs to get more air?

I never moved my stem (it's adjustable). I thought the distance was just fine a I was able to have a good bend in my elbows and be comfortable. Anyway, thanks for the advice.

I also tend to hunch, but I've attributed it to a habit of looking far up the road for hazards, or trying to look over/past the rider in front of me. I have to force myself to periodically stretch out my neck/shoulders, and have found that letting my head hang down just a little to a more neutral position helps. Concentrating on keeping my elbows slightly bent also helps keep my shoulders down.

Good Luck.