Need some help chosing a new rim

Brett Jaffee said:

I've had my FS bike (Kona Dawg) for about 9 months, and I'm already on my
second rear wheel...a Mavic 223 disc (same type as what came on the bike).
That wheel has a dent in it too, though.

I weigh 200lbs, and while I don't consider myself very fast, I am evidently
hard on rear wheels. That's probably not going to change, despite my best
efforts. So, I'm thinking about going with a somewhat stronger rim,
hopefully without going overboard.

Here's the alphabet soup I'm looking at:

Mavic XM719: Apparently stronger then the 223, but its a rim brake rim
(I have discs)... not sure if that makes a diff. This wheel replaces the
older Mavic 517, btw.

Mavic XM819 disc: About the same weight (465grams) as the 719, but disc
specific. However, its a UST wheel, and I don't really want to go tubless,
so I dunno if this makes sense for me.

Mavic XM321 disc: A much heavier rim than either of the two above (570
grams). Replaces the old Mavic F219.

Sun Rhynolite XL: Heavy duty rim, pretty much the same weight as the XM
321.

People have told me that the 321 and the Rhynolyte would be overkill,
especially since they add so much weight. Assuming that's the case, any
thoughts on the rim brake 719 vs the disc-specific but UST 819?

The EX 721 (old 521) is what you need. It's a great rim and can hold up
to your weight, no problem.

Forget about the weight, you need strong rim firstly.

--
Slacker

Slacker <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

The EX 721 (old 521) is what you need. It's a great rim and can hold
up to your weight, no problem.

Thanks. I understand what you're saying, but by all acounts, the 223's
aren't the greatest rims. I figure I might try an incremental jump.

Quoted message said:

Forget about the weight, you need strong rim firstly.

True, but those 721's are really heavy. FWIW, I'm not tacoing the 223's.
The first went slightly out of round (I couldn't feel it, but I kept
breaking spokes), and the second has a small dent in the side. If I was
totally destroying them, I'd think more about getting a much more heavy
duty rim.

Brett Jaffee said...

Quoted message said:

I've had my FS bike (Kona Dawg) for about 9 months, and I'm already on my
second rear wheel...a Mavic 223 disc (same type as what came on the bike).
That wheel has a dent in it too, though.

I weigh 200lbs, and while I don't consider myself very fast, I am evidently
hard on rear wheels. That's probably not going to change, despite my best
efforts. So, I'm thinking about going with a somewhat stronger rim,
hopefully without going overboard.

Here's the alphabet soup I'm looking at:

Mavic XM719: Apparently stronger then the 223, but its a rim brake rim
(I have discs)... not sure if that makes a diff. This wheel replaces the
older Mavic 517, btw.

Quoted message said:

Mavic XM819 disc: About the same weight (465grams) as the 719, but disc
specific. However, its a UST wheel, and I don't really want to go tubless,
so I dunno if this makes sense for me.

You don't have to use tubless (sic) tires on a UST rim. You can use
regular tub(e)s and ordinary tires if you want. The weight given by
Mavic apparently doesn't include the huge threaded eyelets that you need
for the 'fore' design.

Quoted message said:

Mavic XM321 disc: A much heavier rim than either of the two above (570
grams). Replaces the old Mavic F219.

Dude, you weigh 200lbs and you are worried about 3oz extra weight? Time
for a reality check. I would be a lot more worried about keeping rims on
the bike. I think this one is the logical choice.

Quoted message said:

Sun Rhynolite XL: Heavy duty rim, pretty much the same weight as the XM
321.

A wide downhill rim. Be aware that wide rims will require wide tires, so
you may not be able to use anything less than a 2.1. That is the case
for the EX series Mavic rims that Slacker recommended. Actually, you may
be able to use somewhat narrower tires, but it would be outside
manufacturer specs. The regular Rhyno Lite is the same but narrower and
would be a more versatile choice.

Quoted message said:

People have told me that the 321 and the Rhynolyte would be overkill,
especially since they add so much weight. Assuming that's the case, any
thoughts on the rim brake 719 vs the disc-specific but UST 819?

Those people are full of doo-doo. You need a rim that will support your
weight and riding style.

SuperSlinky <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

You don't have to use tubless (sic) tires on a UST rim. You can use
regular tub(e)s and ordinary tires if you want. The weight given by
Mavic apparently doesn't include the huge threaded eyelets that you
need for the 'fore' design.

Sorry, what's the "fore" design?

Quoted message said:

Dude, you weigh 200lbs and you are worried about 3oz extra weight?
Time for a reality check. I would be a lot more worried about keeping
rims on the bike. I think this one is the logical choice.

Heh, no...3oz by itself wouldnt worry me (comparing the Rhyno/321 with the
721), but the Rhynos are already nearly a 1/2 pound heavier then the other
choices. My understanding is that it's going to be weight added to the
bike in the worst possible place. Adding 1/2 pound wouldn't worry me too
much anywhere else on the bike except the wheels.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sun Rhynolite XL: Heavy duty rim, pretty much the same weight as the
XM 321.

A wide downhill rim. Be aware that wide rims will require wide tires,
so you may not be able to use anything less than a 2.1.

That's cool. I typically use Panaracer Fire 2.1's anyway.

Brett Jaffee said...

Quoted message said:

Sorry, what's the "fore" design?

The spoke holes are drilled only through the rim wall facing the hub
leaving the inner wall without holes and airtight for tubeless tires.
The spoke nipples are then installed from the top using a threaded
eyelet instead of from the bottom.

Quoted message said:

Heh, no...3oz by itself wouldnt worry me (comparing the Rhyno/321 with the
721), but the Rhynos are already nearly a 1/2 pound heavier then the other
choices. My understanding is that it's going to be weight added to the
bike in the worst possible place. Adding 1/2 pound wouldn't worry me too
much anywhere else on the bike except the wheels.

I guess I just don't understand the worry about weight since the Dawg is
a heavy bike with lots of heavy components. And with you being 200lbs,
it isn't something that you will notice. You could make up that 7oz a
dozen ways, probably just by switching to lighter tires. Rolling weight
isn't infinitely more important than any other weight, maybe it is worth
twice as much, but no more. Losing one pound from the engine (that's
you) would be more valuable. Aside from all that, you evidently need a
sturdy rim. Them's the breaks. If I had just trashed two rims, I would
stop wasting time and money and get something that works. Disc specific
rims are stronger than the rim brake counterparts. The lightest rim in
your list isn't a disc rim, therefore it will be the weakest. Pay your
money and take your chances I guess.

SuperSlinky <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I guess I just don't understand the worry about weight since the Dawg
is a heavy bike with lots of heavy components. And with you being
200lbs, it isn't something that you will notice. You could make up
that 7oz a dozen ways, probably just by switching to lighter tires.
Rolling weight isn't infinitely more important than any other weight,
maybe it is worth twice as much, but no more. Losing one pound from
the engine (that's you) would be more valuable. Aside from all that,
you evidently need a sturdy rim. Them's the breaks. If I had just
trashed two rims, I would stop wasting time and money and get
something that works. Disc specific rims are stronger than the rim
brake counterparts. The lightest rim in your list isn't a disc rim,
therefore it will be the weakest. Pay your money and take your chances
I guess.

I'm not really disagreeing with anything you're saying. It's just that I
don't see myself as that hard a rider as to need a hard-core freeride rim,
versus a rim that might not be as strong as that, but will definitely be
stronger then the 223. Yeah, I might be taking a chance that those other
rims might not hold up...but hey, I don't see any other way to find out
what is really needed for how I ride.

Anyway, I appreciate the input. Believe it or not, I haven't made up my
mind yet.

"Brett Jaffee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Slacker <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

The EX 721 (old 521) is what you need. It's a great rim and can hold
up to your weight, no problem.

Thanks. I understand what you're saying, but by all acounts, the 223's
aren't the greatest rims. I figure I might try an incremental jump.

Quoted message said:

Forget about the weight, you need strong rim firstly.

True, but those 721's are really heavy. FWIW, I'm not tacoing the 223's.
The first went slightly out of round (I couldn't feel it, but I kept
breaking spokes), and the second has a small dent in the side. If I was
totally destroying them, I'd think more about getting a much more heavy
duty rim.

I've been running the 521's for a while, and I only weigh ~160lb. What's the
point in moving up a bit at a time and leaving several trashed rims in your
wake? - Go for a tough wheel right off, one that will hold up under your
weight, and be done with it!

',;~}~

Shaun aRe

"Shaun Rimmer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Brett Jaffee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Slacker <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

The EX 721 (old 521) is what you need. It's a great rim and can hold
up to your weight, no problem.

Thanks. I understand what you're saying, but by all acounts, the 223's
aren't the greatest rims. I figure I might try an incremental jump.

Quoted message said:

Forget about the weight, you need strong rim firstly.

True, but those 721's are really heavy. FWIW, I'm not tacoing the

223's.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The first went slightly out of round (I couldn't feel it, but I kept
breaking spokes), and the second has a small dent in the side. If I was
totally destroying them, I'd think more about getting a much more heavy
duty rim.

I've been running the 521's for a while, and I only weigh ~160lb. What's

the

Quoted message said:

point in moving up a bit at a time and leaving several trashed rims in

your

Quoted message said:

wake? - Go for a tough wheel right off, one that will hold up under your
weight, and be done with it!

',;~}~

Shaun aRe

P.s. - not that *I'm* gonna worry about the weight of those rims when I have
tyres on them that weight *3* lbs each, mind ',;~}~

"Shaun Rimmer" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I've been running the 521's for a while, and I only weigh ~160lb.
What's the point in moving up a bit at a time and leaving several
trashed rims in your wake?

I don't think that's a given...but if it is, I'll post and you can say "I
told ya so." 🙂

Nuke Proof it.

I MTB 2004

Brett Jaffee said:

"Shaun Rimmer" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I've been running the 521's for a while, and I only weigh ~160lb.
What's the point in moving up a bit at a time and leaving several
trashed rims in your wake?

I don't think that's a given...but if it is, I'll post and you can say "I
told ya so." 🙂

Hey, you could post if you find something lighter that works too.

--
Slacker - doesn't always have to be bad news

Slacker <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Brett Jaffee said:

"Shaun Rimmer" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I've been running the 521's for a while, and I only weigh ~160lb.
What's the point in moving up a bit at a time and leaving several
trashed rims in your wake?

I don't think that's a given...but if it is, I'll post and you can
say "I told ya so." 🙂

Hey, you could post if you find something lighter that works too.

True, but what's an appropriate interval? Just my luck if I post "these
are great"...then watch them bend the next day.

FWIW, I'm having a wheel built with the Mavic F519 and an XT hub (rear).
The 519 is the same thing as the newer XM719 (only cheaper, because its
last year's model).

I've posed the original question in a couple of places and to a number of
folks, and opinions were pretty much split between the somewhat lighter
xc/freeride type rims versus the heavier dedicated freeride types.
However, the guys who I ride with and have actually seen how I ride tended
to suggest the lighter ones, so that's what really swayed me.

P.S. I don't think I mentioned it before, but both the previous and
current Mavic 223 I have were machine-built wheels. Based on what I've
been reading, there can be a huge difference between a wheel built by an
experienced builder versus the same wheel built by machine. I'm having the
new wheel hand built. Anyway, wish me luck!

Brett Jaffee said:

Slacker wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hey, you could post if you find something lighter that works too.

True, but what's an appropriate interval? Just my luck if I post "these
are great"...then watch them bend the next day.

Good question. Maybe some initial impressions after 200-300 miles, and a
solid review after 1000 +- a couple hundred depending on terrain??

Quoted message said:

FWIW, I'm having a wheel built with the Mavic F519 and an XT hub (rear).
The 519 is the same thing as the newer XM719 (only cheaper, because its
last year's model).

I've posed the original question in a couple of places and to a number of
folks, and opinions were pretty much split between the somewhat lighter
xc/freeride type rims versus the heavier dedicated freeride types.
However, the guys who I ride with and have actually seen how I ride tended
to suggest the lighter ones, so that's what really swayed me.

Sounds good :-)

Quoted message said:

P.S. I don't think I mentioned it before, but both the previous and
current Mavic 223 I have were machine-built wheels. Based on what I've
been reading, there can be a huge difference between a wheel built by an
experienced builder versus the same wheel built by machine. I'm having the
new wheel hand built. Anyway, wish me luck!

I was assuming that was a given.

I had the same problems with the crappy machine made wheels that came on
my bike (221's I believe). I also have gone to hand built only wheel
sets. I've been very impressed with my local wheel builder; Hope you
experience the same.

--
Slacker

Quoted message said:

Nuke Proof it.

I MTB 2004

Is that company still around?

--
Slacker

Slacker <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I had the same problems with the crappy machine made wheels that came
on my bike (221's I believe). I also have gone to hand built only
wheel sets. I've been very impressed with my local wheel builder; Hope
you experience the same.

Thanks. And now allow me to go totally overboard in the other
direction...the front wheel. I've got a 223 on the front, and after 9
months it's seems to be holding up well. No dents or dings, though it
might be slightly out of true. I wonder if I could go with a lighter wheel
in the front, such as the Mavic 317 (or 717, as I think they call it now).
Well, probably not a good idea, unless...is the 317/717 as strong as the
223, only lighter? I know it's a more pricey rim. At any rate, I'm not
seriously thinking of replacing it at the moment.

Quoted message said:

I'm not really disagreeing with anything you're saying. It's just
that I don't see myself as that hard a rider as to need a hard-core
freeride rim,

I'm 135lbs, use Rhyno Lites on the rear, and put them out of true on a
monthly basis. When the wheel gets bad enough that the spokes have tension
that's pretty different from each other, I detension the spokes, bend the
rim back, and have at it again. It's worked well, although I haven't had to
do it in a while. Then again, I ride very little cross country and lots of
urban.

If I were riding a 223 in the back (I use a 223 in the front w/almost no
maintenance) then I would put it out of commission breathing funny.

It takes one mistake to mess it all up. Unless you're racing or you never
crash/land sideways, your rear wheel is going to take a hit sooner or later,
and you might be stranded. You'll have to go fix the wheel and spend time
not riding because your wheel got messed up.

It's all an issue of how much you value strength vs. weight. With your
weight and heavyish bike, you should be looking for strength, not light
weight.

I bet you it will be almost imperceptible if you switch to a 560 gram rim.

If you've read all this and you want to ignore it, ride more smoothly,
especially since you have a dual-sus!

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

"Brett Jaffee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Shaun Rimmer" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I've been running the 521's for a while, and I only weigh ~160lb.
What's the point in moving up a bit at a time and leaving several
trashed rims in your wake?

I don't think that's a given...but if it is, I'll post and you can say "I
told ya so." 🙂

I'll just say it now and get it outa the way: "I told ya so!"

',;~}~

Shaun aRe

Brett Jaffee said:

I've had my FS bike (Kona Dawg) for about 9 months, and I'm already on my
second rear wheel...a Mavic 223 disc (same type as what came on the bike).
That wheel has a dent in it too, though.

I weigh 200lbs, and while I don't consider myself very fast, I am evidently
hard on rear wheels. That's probably not going to change, despite my best
efforts. So, I'm thinking about going with a somewhat stronger rim,
hopefully without going overboard.

Here's the alphabet soup I'm looking at:

Mavic XM719: Apparently stronger then the 223, but its a rim brake rim
(I have discs)... not sure if that makes a diff. This wheel replaces the
older Mavic 517, btw.

Mavic XM819 disc: About the same weight (465grams) as the 719, but disc
specific. However, its a UST wheel, and I don't really want to go tubless,
so I dunno if this makes sense for me.

Mavic XM321 disc: A much heavier rim than either of the two above (570
grams). Replaces the old Mavic F219.

Sun Rhynolite XL: Heavy duty rim, pretty much the same weight as the XM
321.

People have told me that the 321 and the Rhynolyte would be overkill,
especially since they add so much weight. Assuming that's the case, any
thoughts on the rim brake 719 vs the disc-specific but UST 819?

The build is just as or even more important than the components. Also,
the number of spokes. Get them handbuilt by a good mechanic with 36
spokes.

Fredzep

Brett Jaffee <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I've had my FS bike (Kona Dawg) for about 9 months, and I'm already on my
second rear wheel...a Mavic 223 disc (same type as what came on the bike).
That wheel has a dent in it too, though.

I weigh 200lbs, and while I don't consider myself very fast, I am evidently
hard on rear wheels. That's probably not going to change, despite my best
efforts. So, I'm thinking about going with a somewhat stronger rim,
hopefully without going overboard.

Here's the alphabet soup I'm looking at:

Mavic XM719: Apparently stronger then the 223, but its a rim brake rim
(I have discs)... not sure if that makes a diff. This wheel replaces the
older Mavic 517, btw.

Mavic XM819 disc: About the same weight (465grams) as the 719, but disc
specific. However, its a UST wheel, and I don't really want to go tubless,
so I dunno if this makes sense for me.

Mavic XM321 disc: A much heavier rim than either of the two above (570
grams). Replaces the old Mavic F219.

Sun Rhynolite XL: Heavy duty rim, pretty much the same weight as the XM
321.

People have told me that the 321 and the Rhynolyte would be overkill,
especially since they add so much weight. Assuming that's the case, any
thoughts on the rim brake 719 vs the disc-specific but UST 819?

I ran a 321 for years on my xc bike. you won't notice the weight, but
you'll notice the way it doesn't fall apart.

cheers

g