Need New Bike ASAP

"Jay Beattie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Gawd amighty, after laughing for years at all the people
on this NG positively agonizing over their bicycle
purchases, now I are one.

Anyway, everything broke on Saturday (I was out on the
Columbia River Gorge but made it home). First, I pulled an
entire spoke socket through the wall of a not-so-old Mavic
Suc Open something-or-another (yes, anodized). Then, while
attending to my wheel, I noticed that I had again cracked
a seat stay on an old-style Cannondale 2.8 (this is the
second 2.8 I have broken -- this was a replacement frame).
I do not usually dis Cannondale or Al because I have a
1968 Black Lightning and a T1000 that have withstood much
abuse -- but the 2.8s with the cantilever stays sucked big
time. Anyway, time for a new frame -- and fast.

I do not want a "steel is real" jihad, but I do wonder why
people buy a 6+ lb steel frame/fork when you can get
lighter CF or Ti frames for the same price. Being able to
fix steel is not a good enough reason to buy it, because I
assume that what ever frame I buy will have a good
warranty. No magic-of-steel stories needed. I bought my
first high quality steel frame over 30 years ago and have
had many since.

So, what is a worthy, reasonably light frame that can
withstand out of the saddle climbing by a 6'3" 205lb old
guy. Yes, fit is paramount, and I will make sure it fits
and has a reasonably long TT. I might go back to racing
this year, so no Rivendell's -- but then again, no zero-wheel-
base bikes either. I want something that won't skip around
a lot climbing, is stiff and affordable and comes in a 62
or 63cm. -- Jay Beattie.

Dear Jay,

I'm afraid that the price of the bicycle of your dreams has
risen from $53.73 to $58.88, possibly due to popular demand:

tinyurl.com2tohmOpen ↗

Undoubtedly some dimension measures 63 cm. "Its handcrafted
frame carries the confidence of a lifetime warranty."

More seriously, sorry about your troubles.

Carl Fogel

gvhbikes.comgvhbikes.comOpen ↗

See if you like anything at GVH Bikes. He has a variety of
large size bikes in an assortment of prices. He sells just
frames, just groups, or commplete bikes. I have bought a
bike from him and was happy with the purchase.

"Jay Beattie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Gawd amighty, after laughing for years at all the people
on this NG positively agonizing over their bicycle
purchases, now I are one.

Anyway, everything broke on Saturday (I was out on the
Columbia River Gorge but made it home). First, I pulled an
entire spoke socket through the wall of a not-so-old Mavic
Suc Open something-or-another (yes, anodized). Then, while
attending to my wheel, I noticed that I had again cracked
a seat stay on an old-style Cannondale 2.8 (this is the
second 2.8 I have broken -- this was a replacement frame).
I do not usually dis Cannondale or Al because I have a
1968 Black Lightning and a T1000 that have withstood much
abuse -- but the 2.8s with the cantilever stays sucked big
time. Anyway, time for a new frame -- and fast.

I do not want a "steel is real" jihad, but I do wonder why
people buy a 6+ lb steel frame/fork when you can get
lighter CF or Ti frames for the same price. Being able to
fix steel is not a good enough reason to buy it, because I
assume that what ever frame I buy will have a good
warranty. No magic-of-steel stories needed. I bought my
first high quality steel frame over 30 years ago and have
had many since.

So, what is a worthy, reasonably light frame that can
withstand out of the saddle climbing by a 6'3" 205lb old
guy. Yes, fit is paramount, and I will make sure it fits
and has a reasonably long TT. I might go back to racing
this year, so no Rivendell's -- but then again, no zero-wheel-
base bikes either. I want something that won't skip around
a lot climbing, is stiff and affordable and comes in a 62
or 63cm. -- Jay Beattie.

XL Litespeed Veneto gives me the same fit as a 63cm
Rivendell...

Nick

Jay Beattie said:

[snip]

So, what is a worthy, reasonably light frame that can
withstand out of the saddle climbing by a 6'3" 205lb old
guy. Yes, fit is paramount, and I will make sure it fits
and has a reasonably long TT. I might go back to racing
this year, so no Rivendell's -- but then again, no zero-wheel-
base bikes either. I want something that won't skip around
a lot climbing, is stiff and affordable and comes in a 62
or 63cm. -- Jay Beattie.

Trek's OCLV bikes come in a 62cm.

"Carl Fogel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm afraid that the price of the bicycle of your dreams
has risen from $53.73 to $58.88, possibly due to
popular demand:

tinyurl.com2tohmOpen ↗

Undoubtedly some dimension measures 63 cm. "Its
handcrafted frame carries the confidence of a lifetime
warranty."

But wait!! The 26 inch version is $58.88. You can still pick
up the 24 inch for $53.73. I'm sure that it will also have a
63cm dimension, perhaps even between the same 2 points as
the 26 inch.

tinyurl.comyqm3aOpen ↗

If you spend some time shopping on the site you might also
notice that you can pick up a 26 inch dual-suspension "power
climber" for the paltry sum of $68.68. An upgrade to full
suspension frame, for less than a sawbuck! If that's not
enough to close the deal, it has 18-speed Shimano shifting!
Alas, there is no "confidence of a lifetime warranty".

If $68.68 is beyond your budget, and the 15 speeds of the
Roadmaster Mt. Fury just aren't enough, you have another
option. The "Roadmaster Mountain Sport SX 26-inch Bike"
will give you "18-speed rear index shifting" for a price
that tucks neatly between the Mt. Fury and the "power
climber", $64.77.

--
Greg Estep

Jay Beattie said:

... I do not usually dis Cannondale or Al because I have a
1968 Black Lightning and a T1000 that have withstood much
abuse -- but the 2.8s with the cantilever stays sucked big
time. Anyway, time for a new frame -- and fast.

Isn't a 1968 Black Lightning a motorcycle? I also have and
like a C-dale tourer, but the 2.8 and its cantilever stays
should be disposed of on style grounds alone. They just
look stupid.

Quoted message said:

I do not want a "steel is real" jihad, but I do wonder why
people buy a 6+ lb steel frame/fork when you can get
lighter CF or Ti frames for the same price. Being able to
fix steel is not a good enough reason to buy it, because I
assume that what ever frame I buy will have a good
warranty. No magic-of-steel stories needed. I bought my
first high quality steel frame over 30 years ago and have
had many since.

Quoted message said:

So, what is a worthy, reasonably light frame that can
withstand out of the saddle climbing by a 6'3" 205lb old
guy. Yes, fit is paramount, and I will make sure it fits
and has a reasonably long TT. I might go back to racing
this year, so no Rivendell's -- but then again, no zero-wheel-
base bikes either. I want something that won't skip around
a lot climbing, is stiff and affordable and comes in a 62
or 63cm. -- Jay Beattie.

I can't tell you why people buy steel - aesthetics, mojo, an
extra margin of durability? For me, aesthetics and mojo
count, plus a good lightly used steel frame was cheap. In
order to save more than a pound off a high quality steel
frame with CF, Ti, Al you have to spend a lot of money
(forks now having been demoted to the level of accessory). I
think one could race a Rivendell without any significant
disadvantage, especially in lower-cat races and those which
do not go over a mountain pass. But you have to like that
kind of aesthetic statement.

IMO, steel frames with oversized tubing are plenty stiff,
more so than 80s-standard tubing if that's what you were
used to. I only really notice this as a decrease in chain
rub. I assume you're looking for a frameset only. Not sure
what is available from the big manufacturers. Plus their
current Al offerings trend to ugly paint jobs, little tire
clearance, and relatively short stays. How about a Gunnar,
Kelly (www.kellybike.com) or Habanero?

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Greg Estep
"Carl Fogel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm afraid that the price of the bicycle of your dreams
has risen from $53.73 to $58.88, possibly due to
popular demand:

tinyurl.com2tohmOpen ↗

Undoubtedly some dimension measures 63 cm. "Its
handcrafted frame carries the confidence of a lifetime
warranty."

But wait!! The 26 inch version is $58.88. You can still pick
up the 24 inch for $53.73. I'm sure that it will also have a
63cm dimension, perhaps even between the same 2 points as
the 26 inch.

tinyurl.comyqm3aOpen ↗

If you spend some time shopping on the site you might also
notice that you can pick up a 26 inch dual-suspension "power
climber" for the paltry sum of $68.68. An upgrade to full
suspension frame, for less than a sawbuck! If that's not
enough to close the deal, it has 18-speed Shimano shifting!
Alas, there is no "confidence of a lifetime warranty".

If $68.68 is beyond your budget, and the 15 speeds of the
Roadmaster Mt. Fury just aren't enough, you have another
option. The "Roadmaster Mountain Sport SX 26-inch Bike"
will give you "18-speed rear index shifting" for a price
that tucks neatly between the Mt. Fury and the "power
climber", $64.77.

--
Greg Estep

Dear Greg,

Twenty-four inch tires? Dear God! Why not just come
right out of the closet and admit that you're Alexander
Moulton?

As for your lavish, overpriced alternatives, need I remind
you that a fool and his money soon are parted? The UCI
forbids the use of suspension, and Jay has expressed an
interest in racing.

I can only hope that your well-meant extravagance does
not move Werehatrack to offer you a stiff lecture on the
value of substance over style.

More in sorrow than anger,

Carl Fogel

jay, i'm interested to see your frame failure because of
brake stress. i had a mountain frame with amazing flex in
the stays when applying high brake force, and was concerned
about this exact issue. to reduce it, i fitted one of those
horseshoe "booster" things and the flex pretty much
disappeared. you may want to consider that if you /do/ get
another aluminum frame.

jb

Jay Beattie said:

Gawd amighty, after laughing for years at all the people
on this NG positively agonizing over their bicycle
purchases, now I are one.

Anyway, everything broke on Saturday (I was out on the
Columbia River Gorge but made it home). First, I pulled an
entire spoke socket through the wall of a not-so-old Mavic
Suc Open something-or-another (yes, anodized). Then, while
attending to my wheel, I noticed that I had again cracked
a seat stay on an old-style Cannondale 2.8 (this is the
second 2.8 I have broken -- this was a replacement frame).
I do not usually dis Cannondale or Al because I have a
1968 Black Lightning and a T1000 that have withstood much
abuse -- but the 2.8s with the cantilever stays sucked big
time. Anyway, time for a new frame -- and fast.

I do not want a "steel is real" jihad, but I do wonder why
people buy a 6+ lb steel frame/fork when you can get
lighter CF or Ti frames for the same price. Being able to
fix steel is not a good enough reason to buy it, because I
assume that what ever frame I buy will have a good
warranty. No magic-of-steel stories needed. I bought my
first high quality steel frame over 30 years ago and have
had many since.

So, what is a worthy, reasonably light frame that can
withstand out of the saddle climbing by a 6'3" 205lb old
guy. Yes, fit is paramount, and I will make sure it fits
and has a reasonably long TT. I might go back to racing
this year, so no Rivendell's -- but then again, no zero-wheel-
base bikes either. I want something that won't skip around
a lot climbing, is stiff and affordable and comes in a 62
or 63cm. -- Jay Beattie.

carlfogel said:

... Dear Greg,

Twenty-four inch tires? Dear God! Why not just come right
out of the closet and admit that you're Alexander Moulton?

As for your lavish, overpriced alternatives, need I remind
you that a fool and his money soon are parted? The UCI
forbids the use of suspension, and Jay has expressed an
interest in racing.

I can only hope that your well-meant extravagance does not
move Werehatrack to offer you a stiff lecture on the value
of substance over style.

More in sorrow than anger,

Carl Fogel

Dear Carl,

Why would anyone want those huge 24-inch wheels, unless they
are trying to compensate for other inadequacies?

--
Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Tom Sherman

Bcarlfogel said:

... Dear Greg,

Twenty-four inch tires? Dear God! Why not just come right
out of the closet and admit that you're Alexander Moulton?

As for your lavish, overpriced alternatives, need I remind
you that a fool and his money soon are parted? The UCI
forbids the use of suspension, and Jay has expressed an
interest in racing.

I can only hope that your well-meant extravagance does not
move Werehatrack to offer you a stiff lecture on the value
of substance over style.

More in sorrow than anger,

Carl Fogel

Dear Carl,

Why would anyone want those huge 24-inch wheels, unless they
are trying to compensate for other inadequacies?

--
Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side) [/B]

Dear Tom,

I'm not going to take this kind of comment
lying down!

Carl Fogel

jim beam said:

Jay Beattie wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

... I noticed that I had again cracked a seat stay on an
old-style Cannondale 2.8 (this is the second 2.8 I have
broken --

Quoted message said:

jay, i'm interested to see your frame failure because of
brake stress. i had a mountain frame with amazing flex in
the stays when applying high brake force, and was
concerned about this exact issue. to reduce it, i fitted
one of those horseshoe "booster" things and the flex
pretty much disappeared. you may want to consider that if
you /do/ get another aluminum frame.

I'm pretty sure Jay was talking about breaking a Cannondale
2.8 road frame, the ones where the seatstay and chainstay
join the dropout well ahead of the rear axle. An arrangement
that looks fragile to me (not to mention dorky as hell).
Caliper brakes don't flex the stays like cantilever brakes
do. Never heard of anyone breaking off a rear brake bridge,
though I'm sure it's happened somewhere.

"Benjamin Weiner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:4060de6c$1@darkstar...

Quoted message said:

jim beam said:

Jay Beattie wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

... I noticed that I had again cracked a seat stay on
an old-style Cannondale 2.8 (this is the second 2.8 I
have

broken --

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

jay, i'm interested to see your frame failure because of

brake stress.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

i had a mountain frame with amazing flex in the
stays when

applying high

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

brake force, and was concerned about this exact
issue. to

reduce it, i

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

fitted one of those horseshoe "booster" things and
the flex

pretty much

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

disappeared. you may want to consider that if you
/do/ get

another

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

aluminum frame.

I'm pretty sure Jay was talking about breaking a
Cannondale 2.8

road

Quoted message said:

frame, the ones where the seatstay and chainstay join the

dropout well

Quoted message said:

ahead of the rear axle. An arrangement that looks
fragile to

me (not

Quoted message said:

to mention dorky as hell). Caliper brakes don't flex
the stays

like

Quoted message said:

cantilever brakes do. Never heard of anyone breaking off a

rear brake

Quoted message said:

bridge, though I'm sure it's happened somewhere.

This was the second 2.8 frame that I broke, both in the same
place: where the right side seat stay is "squashed" flat
before it is welded into the chain stay. Right at the squash
point there must be a horrendous stress-riser. I developed
circumferential cracking on both frames in that area.

The design of the original 2.8s was problematic, and
Cannondale dumped it long ago. I got one cheap in '93, raced
it a lot and broke it by '95. the '95 replacement frame is
the one I just broke. I am going for warranty replacement,
but I do not know whether I will build the frame or sell it.
-- Jay Beattie.

"Jay Beattie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I do not want a "steel is real" jihad, but I do wonder why
people buy a 6+ lb steel frame/fork when you can get
lighter CF or Ti frames for the same price.

Why obsess over a pound or two on the frame? Even with the
lightest components, your frame+parts will weigh over 15
lbs. Put you on it, and you have 220 lbs. The weight
difference in frame/fork is going to be a couple of pounds
at best (my *HEAVY* custom, steel touring frame/fork is
about 5.5 lbs). You are niggling over < 1% weight difference
on the road. I lose more than a couple of pounds every
Saturday and Sunday, and as a percentage it is a lot more
(at end-of-winter high I am 160). Rather than obsess over
weight I would look for the frame that felt best to me, and
not exclude a lot of options because of a minor weight
issue. Todd Kuzma has built up a Heron Road, steel frame, at
something just north of 17 lbs., complete. Best advice: keep
an open mind, and hit the shops for some test rides. Last
time I did that I [censored] the salesperson by walking out
with a relatively inexpensive steel bike, at < 1/2 the price
of the Al bike he was trying to push, and < 1/3 the price of
the CF bike I went there to buy. But 15 miles into the hills
on each bike and the choice was obvious to me.

- rick

Jay Beattie said:

The '95 replacement frame is the one I just broke. I am
going for warranty replacement, but I do not know whether
I will build the frame or sell it. -- Jay Beattie.

I am all but certain that Cannondale have no more 2.8 frames
with which to replace yours, so you will surely receive a
more recent frame-- a CAAD4 or even a more recent variation,
none of which suffer the weird cantilevered dropouts that
have proven to be your problem.

In the past, Cannondale have always furnished me with both a
replacement frame and all the necessary bits to go with it
(e.g. a different diameter fork and headset.) The quality of
warranty support I've gotten from them has left me no basis
whatsoever for complaint. IMO it's the single best reason to
buy a Cannondale.

Chalo Colina