Near misses

Kinda used to it.
Kinda expect it.
Don't like it but don't let it get me down.
Cycling the same route every day there are places where I know I'll get cut
up etc. so I can take avoiding action, or place myself so the drivers have
to wait.
Happens all the time, but rarely would I describe it as a near miss, the
near misses are the unexpected ones.

"Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I cycle a short distance to work each day and it is very rare if I
don't have a near miss with a car driver pulling out of a side
turning, overtaking me and then doing an emergency stop in front, or
some other dangerous manouvre. Other cyclists I know rarely complain
so am I unique or do most cyclists not care?

TIA, Mark

Mark said:

Hi,

I cycle a short distance to work each day and it is very rare if I
don't have a near miss with a car driver pulling out of a side
turning, overtaking me and then doing an emergency stop in front, or
some other dangerous manouvre. Other cyclists I know rarely complain
so am I unique or do most cyclists not care?

Depends how you define near miss.

Personally, I regard it as something that, had I not taken
extraordinary evasive action, would have been a collision causing
injury or moderate damage. On my commute on an upright, I get about
one a month. On the same commute on a recumbent trike I get about one
every two years.

If you define it as things like motorists pulling out of a side
turning, cutting in too sharply, etc. then yes, I'd expect an average
of two or three a day, with about twice as many on the evening run as
the morning. It's not that I don't care, it's just that complaining
serves no purpose.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

Mark said:

I cycle a short distance to work each day and it is very rare if I
don't have a near miss with a car driver pulling out of a side
turning, overtaking me and then doing an emergency stop in front, or
some other dangerous manouvre. Other cyclists I know rarely complain
so am I unique or do most cyclists not care?

Get and read Cyclecraft. Amazon (referral) link:

http://qurl.net/om

Sounds like you need to make yourself more visible through your actions
and road positioning, assuming you're clever enough to be using
appropriate lights and clothing already. The book will help with that.

Last night, I had cause to yell at three motorists on my commute home.
Usually that number is zero - I don't know what was going on yesterday.
People seemed to be driving like idiots.

--
Mark.
http://tranchant.plus.com/

Following on from Mark's message. . .

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I cycle a short distance to work each day and it is very rare if I
don't have a near miss with a car driver pulling out of a side
turning, overtaking me and then doing an emergency stop in front, or
some other dangerous manouvre. Other cyclists I know rarely complain
so am I unique or do most cyclists not care?

You shouldn't be experiencing these problems. Occasionally there are
utter twits in cars but mostly you can control them. There is a bit of
an art to not giving them room to do silly things and leaving yourself
avoidance room. My guess is that you need to be more assertive.

Try the link in the sig.

--
PETER FOX Not the same since the bridge building business collapsed
[email hidden]
www.eminent.demon.co.uk - Lots for cyclists

Mark said:

Hi,

I cycle a short distance to work each day and it is very rare if I
don't have a near miss with a car driver pulling out of a side
turning, overtaking me and then doing an emergency stop in front, or
some other dangerous manouvre. Other cyclists I know rarely complain
so am I unique or do most cyclists not care?

TIA, Mark

I don't know if you (or I) are unique but it rarely happens to me. I
ride everyday and will complete 10,000 miles this year.

Mark Tranchant said:

Mark said:

I cycle a short distance to work each day and it is very rare
if I don't have a near miss with a car driver pulling out of
a side turning, overtaking me and then doing an emergency
stop in front, or some other dangerous manouvre. Other
cyclists I know rarely complain so am I unique or do most
cyclists not care?

Get and read Cyclecraft. Amazon (referral) link:

http://qurl.net/om

Sounds like you need to make yourself more visible through
your actions and road positioning, assuming you're clever
enough to be using appropriate lights and clothing already.
The book will help with that.
Last night, I had cause to yell at three motorists on my
commute home. Usually that number is zero - I don't know what
was going on yesterday. People seemed to be driving like
idiots.

I yelled at a one last week and ended up with not a near miss. A woman
in a 4x4 came out on me while I was on a roundabout, we both ended up
going the same way with her in the bus lane and me in the outside
lane. I called her a stupid [censored] so she swerved in front of me and
slammed her brakes on. There was nothing I could do but go into the
back of her. She then went off back into the bus lane. Luckily I
managed to unclip in time and not come off.

The driver behind said something I didn't quite hear properly but I
think it was bloody lunatic.
--
Cheers
the.Mark

"MSeries" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mark said:

Hi,

I cycle a short distance to work each day and it is very rare if I
don't have a near miss with a car driver pulling out of a side
turning, overtaking me and then doing an emergency stop in front, or
some other dangerous manouvre. Other cyclists I know rarely complain
so am I unique or do most cyclists not care?

TIA, Mark

I don't know if you (or I) are unique but it rarely happens to me. I
ride everyday and will complete 10,000 miles this year.

I think sometimes it depends on where you live. Here on the Wirral you're
seen as an object to get past as quickly as possible without any due care
and consideration by some car drivers. I was cycling down a series of S
bends (Brimstage for them that know it) in the primary riding position to
prevent any overtaking. All of a sudden a driver in a 4 * 4 decides too
overtake on one of the bends. As he attempts to do this, a car comes form
the opposite direction, so the idiot decides to move in quickly to avoid a
collision while nearly squashing me. This is the standard of driving you see
quite often on the Wirral.

John

Most places in London a little harsh to a cyclist. I stopped
complaining a long time ago and started to accept it. Mainly know I
ride defensivly. Make sure I'm visible. If that fails I have no
problems removing parts of cars that should stay attached. My metal
bolt in bar plugs also have various shades of paint colour on them. So
do my bear traps too. If you can get it under a sill it takes paint off
and lets rust in. And they don't notice it till its too late.

Please be advised I'm not condoning this sort of cycling and I
generally try and ride responsibly.

TR

Why I don't complain:

I've been cycling almost every day of my life since I was 8 years old.
I've had countless crashes (got a scar on my hip, my elbow, and my ribs
to prove it) which were mostly my own fault, but and never bad enough
to be hospitalised. I've had thousands of near-misses in traffic but
*never* an actual collision with a car (famous last words :-) ).

IMO slow moving traffic is less dangerous than it looks, and bicycles
are highly maneuverable. I always stay in the middle of the lane and
avoid busy roads where I can, which makes my journey longer, but still
quicker than it would be by car. Seems to do the job.

If you class a near miss as anything which needs action by you to
avoid a collision then they are unfortunately not rare. I've had two
this week. One a car not giving way to me as it entered a roundabout.
Two an ambulance pulling turning right from a side street and almost
hitting me. Both incidents required me to brake significantly (although
short of a full emergency stop) to avoid collisions which would have
caused injury. The ambulance driver apologised and said he hadn't seen
me because of the sun. Although that didn't stop him seeing the two
cars he let pass before pulling out in front of me. I suppose if
anything is going to knock you off it might as well be an ambulance !

As regards urban cyling heres how Colin Guthrie a
Glasgow cycling GP sees it.
"AS someone who has cycled in Glasgow on a daily basis for 20 years
may
I offer my 10 cycling tips?

1. Do not go out on a bike in Britain unless you are an aggressive
[censored] of the first order.

2. Assume you are the moving target of a computer game where vehicles
exist for the sole purpose of destroying you.

3. Assume all children will throw anything and everything at you
because you are a cyclist and, as everyone knows, you are a figure of
fun, someone to be ridiculed, someone to be spat upon, you are the
lowest of the low because when it comes to modes of transport you are
generally considered to be the very a******e.

4. Never assume that anyone, be they pedestrian, car, lorry, other
cyclist, mounted policeman, can ever actually see you regardless of
how conspicuous you are. You may have sufficient flashing
gear on you to challenge a minor town's millennium celebrations but
they do not want to see you so they will not see you.

5. The most dangerous threat you face is not from moving traffic but
from car doors opening from parked vehicles on your left. You must
cycle as if all car doors could open at any time. Now most city
streets have cars parked everywhere so you need to have good brakes
and cycle a door's length out from the parked cars. This results in
conflict because on most roads this will inevitably hold up following
traffic. If you are a cyclist and are "doored" then it's your own
fault.

6. Do not ride a bicycle when the roads are icy. You would think this
self-evident but there are some bikers out there who carry on
regardless even when roads are sheets of ice.

7. Cycle helmets will not protect you from serious injury in a proper
accident. Do not assume a cycle helmet has the same protective effect
as an airbag or seatbelts.

8. Be aggressive, know your light sequences, use your vastly superior
acceleration and vision between zero and 5mph to get ahead at lights
and other junctions. Don't feel guilty about going early at the
lights. Junctions should have advanced lights and advanced lines for
cyclists. Remember you're in the firing line and they are out to get
you and you have got to get away into safer and slower traffic.

9. Use the Green Man in a sensible fashion taking care to look both
ways and allow pedestrians to cross first.

10. Every cycle journey is something like 10 times more likely to
result in your death than a car journey but the health benefits
resulting from this exercise overcome this additional accident risk
and so you end up living a longer and healthier life. "

Iain

Peter Fox said:

Following on from Mark's message. . .

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I cycle a short distance to work each day and it is very rare if I
don't have a near miss with a car driver pulling out of a side
turning, overtaking me and then doing an emergency stop in front, or
some other dangerous manouvre. Other cyclists I know rarely complain
so am I unique or do most cyclists not care?

You shouldn't be experiencing these problems. Occasionally there are
utter twits in cars but mostly you can control them. There is a bit of
an art to not giving them room to do silly things and leaving yourself
avoidance room. My guess is that you need to be more assertive.

Thanks. I've just done the cycle safety quiz. I was quite surprized
at the results. In places it contradicts what I was taught.

I'm not sure how I can control the twits in cars though.

Mark.

Mark Tranchant said:

Mark said:

I cycle a short distance to work each day and it is very rare if I
don't have a near miss with a car driver pulling out of a side
turning, overtaking me and then doing an emergency stop in front, or
some other dangerous manouvre. Other cyclists I know rarely complain
so am I unique or do most cyclists not care?

Get and read Cyclecraft. Amazon (referral) link:

http://qurl.net/om

Sounds like you need to make yourself more visible through your actions
and road positioning, assuming you're clever enough to be using
appropriate lights and clothing already. The book will help with that.

I think I should be visible enough. My bike has many reflectors,
plenty of lights for night and I always wear a bright yellow jacket.

Mark.

On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 12:02:07 GMT, "John" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"MSeries" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mark said:

Hi,

I cycle a short distance to work each day and it is very rare if I
don't have a near miss with a car driver pulling out of a side
turning, overtaking me and then doing an emergency stop in front, or
some other dangerous manouvre. Other cyclists I know rarely complain
so am I unique or do most cyclists not care?

TIA, Mark

I don't know if you (or I) are unique but it rarely happens to me. I
ride everyday and will complete 10,000 miles this year.

I think sometimes it depends on where you live. Here on the Wirral you're
seen as an object to get past as quickly as possible without any due care
and consideration by some car drivers. I was cycling down a series of S
bends (Brimstage for them that know it) in the primary riding position to
prevent any overtaking. All of a sudden a driver in a 4 * 4 decides too
overtake on one of the bends. As he attempts to do this, a car comes form
the opposite direction, so the idiot decides to move in quickly to avoid a
collision while nearly squashing me. This is the standard of driving you see
quite often on the Wirral.

Maybe there is a problem here. The local rag is always publishing
anti-cyclist letters and I sometimes get abuse shouted at me just for
being on the road. There are many idiots on the road, the worst seem
to be parents rushing to drive their kid to school. School holidays
are much better!

My route to work is all urban with many narrow roads, some with parked
cars. There are many junctions most where I (should) have right of
way. There are some token efforts at cycle lanes which I rarely use
at all.

Mark.

Kinetic said:

Why I don't complain:

I've been cycling almost every day of my life since I was 8 years old.
I've had countless crashes (got a scar on my hip, my elbow, and my ribs
to prove it) which were mostly my own fault, but and never bad enough
to be hospitalised. I've had thousands of near-misses in traffic but
*never* an actual collision with a car (famous last words :-) ).

IMO slow moving traffic is less dangerous than it looks, and bicycles
are highly maneuverable. I always stay in the middle of the lane and
avoid busy roads where I can, which makes my journey longer, but still
quicker than it would be by car. Seems to do the job.

I am uncertain about the benefits of cycling in the middle of a lane.
I can see the advantages (more room, avoiding car doors opening etc)
but I am not sure that some other risks are greater.

Take the following situation for example. A narrow two-way street
with cars parked almost all the way up the left hand side (from my
perspective). A lot of traffic (for a narrow road) drives along this
road including buses. If I ride giving 1m gap from the parked cars I
am actually closer to the wrong side of the road and am in danger of
being hit by a car or bus coming the other way. Few slow down or
appear to notice I am there. Also if I ride like that I prevent cars
coming up behind me from overtaking which leads some drivers to
continuously sound their horn and/or swear loudly. When they finally
overtake me they sometimes drive as close as possible to me to try to
exact some kind or perverted revenge for delaying them for a second or
two.

Mark.

Mark said:

I'm not sure how I can control the twits in cars though.

My guess is that you ride too close to the edge of the road. This makes
you invisible, and fair game for passing under any circumstances.

It may seem less safe, indeed frightening at first, but if you ride
further out, you appear as a road user rather than a slight narrowing of
the road and most drivers will treat you as such.

The treatment you seem to be experiencing is probably not malicious for
the most part, just a result of thoughtlessness. You can make them think
through your positioning.

The only time I ride close to the edge of the road now is on wide
signle-carriageway roads where there is plenty of room for motor
vehicles to overtake without having to cross the centre line. On
narrower roads I generally ride no further over than where the passenger
in a car would be; and where necessary (blind bends, oncoming traffic)
move out to the centre of the road when appropriate.

--
Mark.
http://tranchant.plus.com/

"A narrow two-way street with cars parked almost all the way up the
left hand side (from my perspective). A lot of traffic (for a narrow
road) drives along this road including buses"

Rare situation. On my commute there is such a street, but I avoid it,
detouring through a residential street instead.

"Also if I ride like that I prevent cars coming up behind me from
overtaking which leads some drivers to continuously sound their horn
and/or swear loudly"

Not my problem. Just background noise.

"then they finally overtake me they sometimes drive as close as
possible to me to try to exact some kind or perverted revenge for
delaying them for a second or two."

Funnily enough, I've noticed the opposite. The closer to the gutter I
ride the less space drivers leave. There is the occasional vengeful
driver, but he's an exception. With most of them it's a case of "give
them a finger and they take the whole hand".

"Do not go out on a bike in Britain unless you are an aggressive
[censored] of the first order."

Only in more "working class" places.

"Assume all children will throw anything and everything at you"

Not a cycling-specific problem. Pedestrians face similar harassment by
minors (happy slapping) as do motorists (bricks thrown off motorway
bridges)

"Do not ride a bicycle when the roads are icy"

Or use studded tyres

"If you are a cyclist and are "doored" then it's your own
fault."

But it's the drivers own fault for having their arm crippled.

"Every cycle journey is something like 10 times more likely to
result in your death than a car journey"

If you're foolish enough to follow the Highway Code, yes.

"Don't feel guilty about going early at the lights"

And don't feel guilty about scratching the doors of cars half-parked on
cycle lanes with your
handle bars "by accident".

in message <[email hidden]>, Mark

(') said:

Mark Tranchant said:

Mark said:

I cycle a short distance to work each day and it is very rare if I
don't have a near miss with a car driver pulling out of a side
turning, overtaking me and then doing an emergency stop in front, or
some other dangerous manouvre. Other cyclists I know rarely complain
so am I unique or do most cyclists not care?

Sounds like you need to make yourself more visible through your actions
and road positioning, assuming you're clever enough to be using
appropriate lights and clothing already. The book will help with that.

I think I should be visible enough. My bike has many reflectors,
plenty of lights for night and I always wear a bright yellow jacket.

If you're not where they're looking, it won't help. Where they're looking
is straight ahead, so stay in the middle of where the car would be if
you were driving a car. Really. Assertive road positioning is 90% of
safe cycling.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

The trouble with Simon is that he only opens his mouth to change feet.
;; of me, by a 'friend'

How fast are you cycling? If they are stuck behind you wobbling along at
walking pace I can understand the driver's frustration, although it doesn't
justify their actions. If you are hacking along at 20Mph then they really
aren't beeing much inconvenienced on a narrow urban street.

"Mark" wrote in

Quoted message said:

Take the following situation for example. A narrow two-way street
with cars parked almost all the way up the left hand side (from my
perspective). A lot of traffic (for a narrow road) drives along this
road including buses. If I ride giving 1m gap from the parked cars I
am actually closer to the wrong side of the road and am in danger of
being hit by a car or bus coming the other way. Few slow down or
appear to notice I am there. Also if I ride like that I prevent cars
coming up behind me from overtaking which leads some drivers to
continuously sound their horn and/or swear loudly. When they finally
overtake me they sometimes drive as close as possible to me to try to
exact some kind or perverted revenge for delaying them for a second or
two.

Mark.