General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

"Natural Cures" book

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
24 August 2005
Last activity
2 September 2005
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Mr-Natural-Health
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  1. George Lagergren said:

    I was quicking browsering thru the updated edition of the "Natural Cures"
    book by Kevin Trudeau at a book store. His number one idea for better
    health is to eliminate dairy and cows' book from one's diet. A book
    recommendation for this area is given: "Milk: The Deadly Poison".

    So, let me get this straight. You browse this book that claims it can
    cure diabetes, doesn't say nothing about how to cure diabetes in the
    book itself, but tells you to subscribe to his web site at $10 a month
    get the information that you paid for when you spent $30 for the book;
    and then persist on promoting it on newsgroups?

    I think that your name, George, should be added to the lawsuit as part
    of the conspiracy to defraud the public.

    Just my opinion, but I am right as usual.

  2. "Mr-Natural-Health" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    George Lagergren said:

    I was quicking browsering thru the updated edition of the "Natural Cures"
    book by Kevin Trudeau at a book store. His number one idea for better
    health is to eliminate dairy and cows' book from one's diet. A book
    recommendation for this area is given: "Milk: The Deadly Poison".

    So, let me get this straight. You browse this book that claims it can
    cure diabetes, doesn't say nothing about how to cure diabetes in the
    book itself, but tells you to subscribe to his web site at $10 a month
    get the information that you paid for when you spent $30 for the book;
    and then persist on promoting it on newsgroups?

    I think that your name, George, should be added to the lawsuit as part
    of the conspiracy to defraud the public.

    Just my opinion, but I am right as usual.

    Consumer Agency Trashes Trudeau's "Natural Cures" Book
    http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/trudeau_cpb.html

    Judge Suspends New York's Interference With Sale of Kevin Trudeau's
    Best-Selling Book
    http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050818/dcth021.html

    Closing the book
    Modern-day shaman stymies state's case to protect public
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ideas_opinions/story/339617p-290039c.html

  3. The Xu study found an incredible amount of glycation, the hallmark of
    "diabetes," with arachidonic acid. I've posted it many times before.
    There was a sciencedaily.com report today (below) about diabetes and
    mitochondrial dysfunction. The mitochondria damage ususally occurs
    with excessive oxidative stress, usually due to too much dietary
    polyunsaturated fatty acids. If the milk is homogenized, there will be
    more oxidative stress. If you heat it too much, there will be more
    oxidative stress, if you don't buy whole milk, there will be more
    oxidative stress, and so on. But it's the highly unsaturated oils and
    meats cooked while exposed to air that are probably doing much more
    damage than anything else. Why don't these snake oil salesmen (who are
    now mostly fish oil salesmen) tell you this? Because it's a bit more
    complicated than the average person can handle, these chanlatans need
    something simpler, so they generate these phrases that have no
    scientific merit whatsoever. I, on the other hand, want to see the
    scientific foundation for any claim. If you go to pubmed.com and
    search for arachidonic inflammation, for example, you will see what is
    probably the biggest problem in health today (in nations like the USA).
    That is, the highly unstable arachidonic acid is at terribly high
    levels in most peoples' tissues, leading to the "epidemics" of "chronic
    disease" we are witnessing these days.

    8/24/2005
    Type 2 Diabetes: Problems In The Furnace

    A detectable decline in energy production by mitochondria - the
    organelles that are the cell's furnace for energy production - seems
    to be a key problem leading to insulin resistance, and thus to type 2
    diabetes, according to studies by Howard Hughes Medical Institute
    researchers.

    The research team said that insulin resistance - an impaired response
    to the presence of insulin - is detectable as early as 20 years
    before the symptoms of diabetes become evident. In fact, insulin
    resistance is now seen as the best predictor that type 2 diabetes will
    eventually develop, said the study's senior author, Gerald I. Shulman,
    a Howard Hughes Medical Institute investigator at the Yale University
    School of Medicine.

    In the new study examining how insulin interacts with the
    energy-producing mitochondria inside living cells, Shulman and his
    colleagues found that the rate of insulin-stimulated energy production
    by mitochondria is significantly reduced in the muscles of lean,
    healthy young adults who have already developed insulin resistance and
    who are at increased risk of developing diabetes later in life.

    "This is further evidence that people who are prone to develop
    diabetes have signs of mitochondrial dysfunction," Shulman said in an
    interview. This is important because mitochondria are the "energy
    factories" inside cells and produce most of the chemical power needed
    to sustain life.

    The new research, which is published in the September 2005 issue of the
    open-access journal PLoS Medicine, indicates that a decreased ability
    to burn sugars and fats efficiently is an early and central part of the
    diabetes problem. Their new data also suggest the basic defect lies
    within the mitochondria, which exist in almost every cell.

    The young adults studied by the research team are the offspring of
    parents who have type 2 diabetes, adding support to the idea that the
    risk can be inherited, and that the problem begins well before diabetes
    symptoms become evident. In an earlier research study published in the
    journal Science, Shulman and his colleagues had also found that
    healthy, lean older individuals have a major reduction in mitochondrial
    energy production that leads to accumulation of fat inside muscle cells
    resulting in insulin resistance. "These data may explain the
    increased prevalence of type 2 diabetes that occurs with aging"
    Shulman said.

    In the new studies, Shulman and his Yale colleagues - Kitt Falk
    Petersen and Sylvie Dufour - discovered that the mitochondria in
    muscle cells respond poorly to insulin stimulation. Normal mitochondria
    react to insulin by boosting production of an energy-carrying molecule,
    ATP, by 90 percent. But the mitochondria from the insulin-resistant
    people they tested only boosted ATP production by 5 percent.

    "These data demonstrate that insulin-stimulated rates of ATP
    synthesis are reduced in the insulin-resistant offspring of parents
    with Type 2 diabetes," the researchers wrote in their report. Their
    work offers new insight into the early steps in the development of
    insulin resistance, and offers important clues to where the problem
    lies.

    Among their findings was also evidence for a severe reduction in the
    amount of insulin stimulated phosphorus transport into the muscle cells
    of the insulin-resistant participants. This also points to a dramatic
    defect in insulin signaling and may explain the observed abnormalities
    in insulin-stimulated power production in the insulin-resistant study
    subjects, since phosphorus is a key element in the mitochondrion's
    complex energy-production process, the oxidative-phosphorylation
    pathway.

    "Type 2 diabetes affects about 171 million people worldwide, and the
    number of people likely to be affected by diabetes is expected to
    double by 2030," Shulman and his colleagues added. "Type 2 Diabetes
    develops when resistance to insulin action is combined with impaired
    insulin secretion," resulting in a severe oversupply of sugars and
    fats in the blood. "Studies have demonstrated the presence of insulin
    resistance in virtually all patients with type 2 diabetes," Shulman
    added. Diabetes is the leading cause of blindness, end stage kidney
    disease and non-traumatic loss of limb, and has associated health care
    costs that exceed $130 billion a year in the United States.

    Such fundamental research is important because the problem of diabetes
    is growing rapidly worldwide, and effective drugs are needed to halt or
    even reverse the disease process. Understanding how the cell's internal
    energy system is controlled by the hormone, insulin, and how the
    mitochondria behave, may eventually lead to improved ways to overcome
    or prevent diabetes.

  4. Mr-Natural-Health said:
    George Lagergren said:

    I was quicking browsering thru the updated edition of the "Natural Cures"
    book by Kevin Trudeau at a book store. His number one idea for better
    health is to eliminate dairy and cows' book from one's diet. A book
    recommendation for this area is given: "Milk: The Deadly Poison".

    So, let me get this straight. You browse this book that claims it can
    cure diabetes, doesn't say nothing about how to cure diabetes in the
    book itself, but tells you to subscribe to his web site at $10 a month
    get the information that you paid for when you spent $30 for the book;
    and then persist on promoting it on newsgroups?

    I think that your name, George, should be added to the lawsuit as part
    of the conspiracy to defraud the public.

    Just my opinion, but I am right as usual.

    For once, you are.

    Trudeau is a convicted felon for check fraud. He is violating the spirit
    of the FTC order.

    And, NYS is trying to get his BS infomercial yanked.

  5. "Ricthy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > I was quicking browsering thru the updated edition of the "Natural
    > Cures"
    > book by Kevin Trudeau at a book store. His number one idea for
    > better
    > health is to eliminate dairy and cows' book from one's diet. A book
    > recommendation for this area is given: "Milk: The Deadly Poison".

    Consumer Agency Trashes Trudeau's "Natural Cures" Book
    http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/trudeau_cpb.html
    Judge Suspends New York's Interference With Sale of Kevin Trudeau's
    Best-Selling Book
    http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050818/dcth021.html
    Closing the book
    Modern-day shaman stymies state's case to protect public
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ideas_opinions/story/339617p-290039c.html

    He may be lean toward the slimey side of marketing, but he speaks many
    surprising truths on the
    consumer affairs website. Any doctor, any food company, any drug company
    won't have much business
    if everybody got healthy. Its simply not in their interest to have
    perfectly healthy people walking
    around. A great doctor that sets his patient on the road to health will
    theorectically lose the
    client - except for possible annual checkups. Its simply bad for
    business. And since so many kids
    go into medicine/research for the big bucks it offers, do you think for a
    second most of them really
    care about you? Unprocessed foods, fasting, etc are almost never
    recommended by the medical
    profession. Whenever I told my MD about some natural thing I tried that
    really worked (like cutting
    out heavy fats in my diet and watching my hay fever immediately
    dissappear) he wasn't the slightest
    bit interested. Yet none of the drugs I had taken in the past had worked
    like that and they ALL had
    side effects. You could have the cure for cancer and they wouldn't listen
    to you. It verges on the
    diabolical. The real problem is a lack of faith. If people would have
    faith that fasting and
    natural, simple eating really works they would simply try it. EVERYBODY
    that tries it acknowledges
    they feel better. Once they feel better, only an idiot bent on total self
    destruction would digress
    back into their previous health choking lifestyle. We live in a strange
    world.

    You, at least, live in a fantasy world where doctors conspire to keep their
    patients sick. The only thing you got right is that Trudeau is slimy.
    --

    --Rich

    Recommended websites:

    http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
    http://www.acahf.org.au
    http://www.quackwatch.org/
    http://www.skeptic.com/
    http://www.csicop.org/

    Quoted message said:


  6. "Ricthy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    He may be lean toward the slimey side of marketing, but he speaks many
    surprising truths on the
    consumer affairs website. Any doctor, any food company, any drug
    company
    won't have much business
    if everybody got healthy. Its simply not in their interest to have
    perfectly healthy people walking
    around. A great doctor that sets his patient on the road to health
    will
    theorectically lose the
    client - except for possible annual checkups. Its simply bad for
    business. And since so many kids
    go into medicine/research for the big bucks it offers, do you think for
    a
    second most of them really
    care about you? Unprocessed foods, fasting, etc are almost never
    recommended by the medical
    profession. Whenever I told my MD about some natural thing I tried
    that
    really worked (like cutting
    out heavy fats in my diet and watching my hay fever immediately
    dissappear) he wasn't the slightest
    bit interested. Yet none of the drugs I had taken in the past had
    worked
    like that and they ALL had
    side effects. You could have the cure for cancer and they wouldn't
    listen
    to you. It verges on the
    diabolical. The real problem is a lack of faith. If people would have
    faith that fasting and
    natural, simple eating really works they would simply try it.
    EVERYBODY
    that tries it acknowledges
    they feel better. Once they feel better, only an idiot bent on total
    self
    destruction would digress
    back into their previous health choking lifestyle. We live in a
    strange
    world.

    You, at least, live in a fantasy world where doctors conspire to keep
    their
    patients sick. The only thing you got right is that Trudeau is slimy.

    Its not a conspiracy. Rather just a better way of doing business
    economically.
    It would take a lot of courage for a doctor to break out of the mold - and
    there
    just isn't much incentive there for them to do it. Especially as their
    costs rise
    and the revenue they were counting on to pay off their student loans,
    offices,
    etc., often dissappoints. Doctors in the emergency ward that work on
    accident
    victims are angels/wizards that deserve the utmost respect.

    I work with ER docs every day. Some are great. Some are dufusses that I
    don't respect at all.

    Quoted message said:

    The others, well not
    from me. My experiences are born out by many visits to the medical
    profession
    over my lifetime. They are totally useless for anything except diagnosis.

    Totally? That's a pretty tall accusation. When you get your kidney stone,
    after your doctor has diagnosed it, trot right on down to your
    accupuncturist to have it treated.

    Quoted message said:

    They
    are simply not trained to keep the public healthy. They receive almost no
    education in health prevention, nutrition, and other things that common
    sense
    tells us are the cornerstones to health.

    So have you been to med school? Have you even read a med school cirriculum?

    Quoted message said:

    The vast majority keep their own
    bodies in atrocious condition.

    Some do. "Vast majority" is an exageration you would find hard to support.

    Quoted message said:

    Would you take your car to a mechanic that
    can't maintain his own car? We are known by our fruits. Their record in
    disease
    prevention and treatment is abysmal. Why trust someone whose record is so
    very unimpressive?

    Compare the record of medical doctors with the records of practitioners of
    ANY altie modality. Bear in mind that doctors are often treating people who
    are really sick, not just those who think they are sick.

    Quoted message said:


    Have you ever tried urine therapy? I have and it works wonders.

    It doesn't.

    Quoted message said:

    Have you ever tried a multi day water fast? I have and it works wonders.

    It doesn't.

    Quoted message said:

    Have you ever eaten not a gram of processed or cooked foods for several
    months and kept to a animal free diet? I have and it works wonders.

    I hope you were paying very close attention to the nutrient content of the
    raw foods you were eating. It's easy to become deficient.

    Quoted message said:

    Do you test your diet with intense cardio exercise that sends your
    heartrate
    to 180 bpm for extended periods? I have and its a great test for a diet.

    Such exercise is good for you. I don't really understand how it "tests your
    diet", though

    Quoted message said:

    You see I have eaten the processed food way, taken the prescription drugs
    when ill and generally trusted the medical profession. Then I tried new
    angles that worked far better. They go to the root cause of the problem.
    Not bandaid solutions that mask symptoms. If I would return to something
    that didn't work, it would be like a dog returning to his own vomit. Once
    you try something better, its a no brainer to continue. The naysayers
    have
    NEVER gone on multi day fasts. They have NEVER been processed-food-
    free for months. They have NEVER tried urine therapy. I have been on
    both sides - have tried both sides. I have chosen because it works. They
    scoff having zero experience. Its the height of hypocritical ignorance.
    Have a healthy day.

    Your experience is anecdote. Come back and tell us all about it when you get
    really sick.
    --

    --Rich

    Recommended websites:

    http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
    http://www.acahf.org.au
    http://www.quackwatch.org/
    http://www.skeptic.com/
    http://www.csicop.org/

  7. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I was quicking browsering thru the updated edition of the "Natural Cures"
    book by Kevin Trudeau at a book store. His number one idea for better
    health is to eliminate dairy and cows' book from one's diet. A book
    recommendation for this area is given: "Milk: The Deadly Poison".

    Consumer Agency Trashes Trudeau's "Natural Cures" Book
    http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/trudeau_cpb.html
    Judge Suspends New York's Interference With Sale of Kevin Trudeau's
    Best-Selling Book
    http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050818/dcth021.html
    Closing the book
    Modern-day shaman stymies state's case to protect public
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ideas_opinions/story/339617p-290039c.html

    He may be lean toward the slimey side of marketing, but he speaks many surprising truths on the
    consumer affairs website. Any doctor, any food company, any drug company won't have much business
    if everybody got healthy. Its simply not in their interest to have perfectly healthy people walking
    around. A great doctor that sets his patient on the road to health will theorectically lose the
    client - except for possible annual checkups. Its simply bad for business. And since so many kids
    go into medicine/research for the big bucks it offers, do you think for a second most of them really
    care about you? Unprocessed foods, fasting, etc are almost never recommended by the medical
    profession. Whenever I told my MD about some natural thing I tried that really worked (like cutting
    out heavy fats in my diet and watching my hay fever immediately dissappear) he wasn't the slightest
    bit interested. Yet none of the drugs I had taken in the past had worked like that and they ALL had
    side effects. You could have the cure for cancer and they wouldn't listen to you. It verges on the
    diabolical. The real problem is a lack of faith. If people would have faith that fasting and
    natural, simple eating really works they would simply try it. EVERYBODY that tries it acknowledges
    they feel better. Once they feel better, only an idiot bent on total self destruction would digress
    back into their previous health choking lifestyle. We live in a strange world.

  8. Ricthy said:

    Have you ever tried urine therapy? I have and it works wonders.

    [snip]

    Quoted message said:

    If I would return to something
    that didn't work, it would be like a dog returning to his own vomit.

    COMMENT:

    It takes a bold man to write both those sentences in the same
    paragraph. One wonders why you haven't been open-minded enough to try
    vomit-therapy, as dogs sometimes do. I hear it works wonders.

    As for the rest of your diatribe about doctors keeping their patients
    ill, and needing to have some direct experience, I think a direct
    experience YOU need to have is keeping an experimental colony of aging
    experimental rodents. They don't have any doctors. But you can feed
    them any kind of diet you like, and at a certain age (or not far from
    it) they'll get all kinds of problems from pneumonia to arthritis to
    bad looking hair to multiple types of cancers. Nobody's ever seen a
    colony of rats or mice that didn't. Or an aging set of dogs or cats or
    zoo animals that didn't, either, for that matter. The only reason you
    don't see as much of it in the wild, is those animals are all young. In
    the wild, there are only two kinds of animals-- the quick and the dead.
    If you ran all humans around a mile track once a month and shot
    everybody who didn't make it in under 8 minutes, you'd have a pretty
    healthy looking bunch of humans, too. That's sort of what happens in
    nature.

    Speaking of "experience," have you ever had a 15 year-old cat or dog in
    your life? Or have all your pets been run over by cars, or
    "disappeared" at the age of 3, as happens with the pets of lowerclass
    people who've never heard of Animal Control?

    Tell me about your pets, Richy. Presumably you never took them to vets,
    who no doubt keep them ill, as a matter of good business. So did they
    live to be 20, bounding across the room to greet you, the whole time?
    Then just pass away in their sleep, looking the same as ever?

    [censored], they did. You might have seen that ONCE. But if you've kept
    many pets into old age, you've seen the actual truth of what it means
    to be a mammal. And it's not pretty. And it's not due to doctors.

    SBH

  9. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    He may be lean toward the slimey side of marketing, but he speaks many
    surprising truths on the
    consumer affairs website. Any doctor, any food company, any drug company
    won't have much business
    if everybody got healthy. Its simply not in their interest to have
    perfectly healthy people walking
    around. A great doctor that sets his patient on the road to health will
    theorectically lose the
    client - except for possible annual checkups. Its simply bad for
    business. And since so many kids
    go into medicine/research for the big bucks it offers, do you think for a
    second most of them really
    care about you? Unprocessed foods, fasting, etc are almost never
    recommended by the medical
    profession. Whenever I told my MD about some natural thing I tried that
    really worked (like cutting
    out heavy fats in my diet and watching my hay fever immediately
    dissappear) he wasn't the slightest
    bit interested. Yet none of the drugs I had taken in the past had worked
    like that and they ALL had
    side effects. You could have the cure for cancer and they wouldn't listen
    to you. It verges on the
    diabolical. The real problem is a lack of faith. If people would have
    faith that fasting and
    natural, simple eating really works they would simply try it. EVERYBODY
    that tries it acknowledges
    they feel better. Once they feel better, only an idiot bent on total self
    destruction would digress
    back into their previous health choking lifestyle. We live in a strange
    world.

    You, at least, live in a fantasy world where doctors conspire to keep their
    patients sick. The only thing you got right is that Trudeau is slimy.

    Its not a conspiracy. Rather just a better way of doing business economically.
    It would take a lot of courage for a doctor to break out of the mold - and there
    just isn't much incentive there for them to do it. Especially as their costs rise
    and the revenue they were counting on to pay off their student loans, offices,
    etc., often dissappoints. Doctors in the emergency ward that work on accident
    victims are angels/wizards that deserve the utmost respect. The others, well not
    from me. My experiences are born out by many visits to the medical profession
    over my lifetime. They are totally useless for anything except diagnosis. They
    are simply not trained to keep the public healthy. They receive almost no
    education in health prevention, nutrition, and other things that common sense
    tells us are the cornerstones to health. The vast majority keep their own
    bodies in atrocious condition. Would you take your car to a mechanic that
    can't maintain his own car? We are known by our fruits. Their record in disease
    prevention and treatment is abysmal. Why trust someone whose record is so
    very unimpressive?

    Have you ever tried urine therapy? I have and it works wonders.
    Have you ever tried a multi day water fast? I have and it works wonders.
    Have you ever eaten not a gram of processed or cooked foods for several
    months and kept to a animal free diet? I have and it works wonders.
    Do you test your diet with intense cardio exercise that sends your heartrate
    to 180 bpm for extended periods? I have and its a great test for a diet.
    You see I have eaten the processed food way, taken the prescription drugs
    when ill and generally trusted the medical profession. Then I tried new
    angles that worked far better. They go to the root cause of the problem.
    Not bandaid solutions that mask symptoms. If I would return to something
    that didn't work, it would be like a dog returning to his own vomit. Once
    you try something better, its a no brainer to continue. The naysayers have
    NEVER gone on multi day fasts. They have NEVER been processed-food-
    free for months. They have NEVER tried urine therapy. I have been on
    both sides - have tried both sides. I have chosen because it works. They
    scoff having zero experience. Its the height of hypocritical ignorance.
    Have a healthy day.

  10. Sbharrisatsignix.netcom.com said:

    It takes a bold man to write both those sentences in the same
    paragraph. One wonders why you haven't been open-minded enough to try
    vomit-therapy, as dogs sometimes do. I hear it works wonders.

    Yep! Way too long and way too irrelevant.

    May I suggest again taking Writing 101 at your local community college?

    You have my condolences.

  11. "Ricthy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    He may be lean toward the slimey side of marketing, but he speaks many
    surprising truths on the
    consumer affairs website. Any doctor, any food company, any drug
    company
    won't have much business
    if everybody got healthy. Its simply not in their interest to have
    perfectly healthy people walking
    around. A great doctor that sets his patient on the road to health
    will
    theorectically lose the
    client - except for possible annual checkups. Its simply bad for
    business. And since so many kids
    go into medicine/research for the big bucks it offers, do you think for
    a
    second most of them really
    care about you? Unprocessed foods, fasting, etc are almost never
    recommended by the medical
    profession. Whenever I told my MD about some natural thing I tried
    that
    really worked (like cutting
    out heavy fats in my diet and watching my hay fever immediately
    dissappear) he wasn't the slightest
    bit interested. Yet none of the drugs I had taken in the past had
    worked
    like that and they ALL had
    side effects. You could have the cure for cancer and they wouldn't
    listen
    to you. It verges on the
    diabolical. The real problem is a lack of faith. If people would have
    faith that fasting and
    natural, simple eating really works they would simply try it.
    EVERYBODY
    that tries it acknowledges
    they feel better. Once they feel better, only an idiot bent on total
    self
    destruction would digress
    back into their previous health choking lifestyle. We live in a
    strange
    world.

    You, at least, live in a fantasy world where doctors conspire to keep
    their
    patients sick. The only thing you got right is that Trudeau is slimy.

    Its not a conspiracy. Rather just a better way of doing business
    economically.
    It would take a lot of courage for a doctor to break out of the mold - and
    there
    just isn't much incentive there for them to do it. Especially as their
    costs rise
    and the revenue they were counting on to pay off their student loans,
    offices,
    etc., often dissappoints.

    Did it ever occur to you that doctors who have great
    success in making their patients healthy will have long-
    lived clients, lots of referrals, and a practice-building
    reputation? No, I guess not.

    GWC

  12. "Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Ricthy said:

    Have you ever tried urine therapy? I have and it works wonders.

    [snip]

    Quoted message said:

    If I would return to something
    that didn't work, it would be like a dog returning to his own vomit.

    COMMENT:

    It takes a bold man to write both those sentences in the same
    paragraph. One wonders why you haven't been open-minded enough to try
    vomit-therapy, as dogs sometimes do. I hear it works wonders.

    LOL! How about [censored] therapy?

    Quoted message said:

    As for the rest of your diatribe about doctors keeping their patients
    ill, and needing to have some direct experience, I think a direct
    experience YOU need to have is keeping an experimental colony of aging
    experimental rodents. They don't have any doctors. But you can feed
    them any kind of diet you like, and at a certain age (or not far from
    it) they'll get all kinds of problems from pneumonia to arthritis to
    bad looking hair to multiple types of cancers. Nobody's ever seen a
    colony of rats or mice that didn't. Or an aging set of dogs or cats or
    zoo animals that didn't, either, for that matter. The only reason you
    don't see as much of it in the wild, is those animals are all young. In
    the wild, there are only two kinds of animals-- the quick and the dead.
    If you ran all humans around a mile track once a month and shot
    everybody who didn't make it in under 8 minutes, you'd have a pretty
    healthy looking bunch of humans, too. That's sort of what happens in
    nature.

    Speaking of "experience," have you ever had a 15 year-old cat or dog in
    your life? Or have all your pets been run over by cars, or
    "disappeared" at the age of 3, as happens with the pets of lowerclass
    people who've never heard of Animal Control?

    Tell me about your pets, Richy. Presumably you never took them to vets,
    who no doubt keep them ill, as a matter of good business. So did they
    live to be 20, bounding across the room to greet you, the whole time?
    Then just pass away in their sleep, looking the same as ever?

    [censored], they did. You might have seen that ONCE. But if you've kept
    many pets into old age, you've seen the actual truth of what it means
    to be a mammal. And it's not pretty. And it's not due to doctors.

    Why oh why didn't the Intelligent Designer do a better job on us?
    I know! The Intelligent Designer is a ... sadist!

    George

  13. "George Cherry" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Ricthy said:

    Have you ever tried urine therapy? I have and it works wonders.

    [snip]

    Quoted message said:

    If I would return to something
    that didn't work, it would be like a dog returning to his own vomit.

    COMMENT:

    It takes a bold man to write both those sentences in the same
    paragraph. One wonders why you haven't been open-minded enough to try
    vomit-therapy, as dogs sometimes do. I hear it works wonders.

    LOL! How about [censored] therapy?

    Quoted message said:

    As for the rest of your diatribe about doctors keeping their patients
    ill, and needing to have some direct experience, I think a direct
    experience YOU need to have is keeping an experimental colony of aging
    experimental rodents. They don't have any doctors. But you can feed
    them any kind of diet you like, and at a certain age (or not far from
    it) they'll get all kinds of problems from pneumonia to arthritis to
    bad looking hair to multiple types of cancers. Nobody's ever seen a
    colony of rats or mice that didn't. Or an aging set of dogs or cats or
    zoo animals that didn't, either, for that matter. The only reason you
    don't see as much of it in the wild, is those animals are all young. In
    the wild, there are only two kinds of animals-- the quick and the dead.
    If you ran all humans around a mile track once a month and shot
    everybody who didn't make it in under 8 minutes, you'd have a pretty
    healthy looking bunch of humans, too. That's sort of what happens in
    nature.

    Speaking of "experience," have you ever had a 15 year-old cat or dog in
    your life? Or have all your pets been run over by cars, or
    "disappeared" at the age of 3, as happens with the pets of lowerclass
    people who've never heard of Animal Control?

    Tell me about your pets, Richy. Presumably you never took them to vets,
    who no doubt keep them ill, as a matter of good business. So did they
    live to be 20, bounding across the room to greet you, the whole time?
    Then just pass away in their sleep, looking the same as ever?

    [censored], they did. You might have seen that ONCE. But if you've kept
    many pets into old age, you've seen the actual truth of what it means
    to be a mammal. And it's not pretty. And it's not due to doctors.

    Why oh why didn't the Intelligent Designer do a better job on us?
    I know! The Intelligent Designer is a ... sadist!

    Good point.

    In reality, longevity has no evolutionary value. Once you are too old to
    participate in the gene pool your genes no longer count even if you live to
    a hundred and beyond. Perhaps wealth has evolutionary value, though. If they
    are rich enough, the old guys can attract those young chikas and keep
    playing the game.

    ;o) Rich

  14. Rich said:

    "George Cherry" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Ricthy wrote:
    > Have you ever tried urine therapy? I have and it works wonders.

    [snip]

    >If I would return to something
    > that didn't work, it would be like a dog returning to his own vomit.

    COMMENT:

    It takes a bold man to write both those sentences in the same
    paragraph. One wonders why you haven't been open-minded enough to try
    vomit-therapy, as dogs sometimes do. I hear it works wonders.

    LOL! How about [censored] therapy?

    Quoted message said:

    As for the rest of your diatribe about doctors keeping their patients
    ill, and needing to have some direct experience, I think a direct
    experience YOU need to have is keeping an experimental colony of aging
    experimental rodents. They don't have any doctors. But you can feed
    them any kind of diet you like, and at a certain age (or not far from
    it) they'll get all kinds of problems from pneumonia to arthritis to
    bad looking hair to multiple types of cancers. Nobody's ever seen a
    colony of rats or mice that didn't. Or an aging set of dogs or cats or
    zoo animals that didn't, either, for that matter. The only reason you
    don't see as much of it in the wild, is those animals are all young. In
    the wild, there are only two kinds of animals-- the quick and the dead.
    If you ran all humans around a mile track once a month and shot
    everybody who didn't make it in under 8 minutes, you'd have a pretty
    healthy looking bunch of humans, too. That's sort of what happens in
    nature.

    Speaking of "experience," have you ever had a 15 year-old cat or dog in
    your life? Or have all your pets been run over by cars, or
    "disappeared" at the age of 3, as happens with the pets of lowerclass
    people who've never heard of Animal Control?

    Tell me about your pets, Richy. Presumably you never took them to vets,
    who no doubt keep them ill, as a matter of good business. So did they
    live to be 20, bounding across the room to greet you, the whole time?
    Then just pass away in their sleep, looking the same as ever?

    [censored], they did. You might have seen that ONCE. But if you've kept
    many pets into old age, you've seen the actual truth of what it means
    to be a mammal. And it's not pretty. And it's not due to doctors.

    Why oh why didn't the Intelligent Designer do a better job on us?
    I know! The Intelligent Designer is a ... sadist!

    Good point.

    In reality, longevity has no evolutionary value. Once you are too old to
    participate in the gene pool your genes no longer count even if you live to
    a hundred and beyond. Perhaps wealth has evolutionary value, though. If they
    are rich enough, the old guys can attract those young chikas and keep
    playing the game.

    There is a theory that those who survive to grandparenthood have
    evolutionary value in their nurturing and protective role as
    grandparents. Can't remember where I read it though.

    Cathy

    Quoted message said:


    ;o) Rich

  15. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Mr-Natural-Health said:


    Sbharrisatsignix.netcom.com said:

    It takes a bold man to write both those sentences in the same
    paragraph. One wonders why you haven't been open-minded enough to try
    vomit-therapy, as dogs sometimes do. I hear it works wonders.

    Yep! Way too long and way too irrelevant.

    May I suggest again taking Writing 101 at your local community college?

    Says the guy who puts his moronic "Ha, ... Hah, Ha!" in most of his
    postings. I would say the pot is calling the kettle black, but in
    this case, the pot is blackened and the kettle is not.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
    -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth

  16. "Rich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    George Cherry said:

    Why oh why didn't the Intelligent Designer do a better job on us?
    I know! The Intelligent Designer is a ... sadist!

    Good point.

    In reality, longevity has no evolutionary value. Once you are too old to
    participate in the gene pool your genes no longer count even if you live
    to a hundred and beyond. Perhaps wealth has evolutionary value, though. If
    they are rich enough, the old guys can attract those young chikas and keep
    playing the game.

    Another good point. Also there is something called the
    "grandmother" or "grandparent" effect. If the grandparents
    are around to help look after and raise the kids, the kids
    are more likely to survive and propagate their genes. This
    also accounts for kinship compassion. We're more likely to
    help our kin than strangers (because they share some
    of our genes).

    George

  17. "cathyb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Rich said:

    "George Cherry" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message
    news:[email hidden]...
    >
    > Ricthy wrote:
    >> Have you ever tried urine therapy? I have and it works wonders.
    >
    > [snip]
    >
    >>If I would return to something
    >> that didn't work, it would be like a dog returning to his own vomit.
    >
    >
    > COMMENT:
    >
    > It takes a bold man to write both those sentences in the same
    > paragraph. One wonders why you haven't been open-minded enough to try
    > vomit-therapy, as dogs sometimes do. I hear it works wonders.

    LOL! How about [censored] therapy?

    > As for the rest of your diatribe about doctors keeping their patients
    > ill, and needing to have some direct experience, I think a direct
    > experience YOU need to have is keeping an experimental colony of aging
    > experimental rodents. They don't have any doctors. But you can feed
    > them any kind of diet you like, and at a certain age (or not far from
    > it) they'll get all kinds of problems from pneumonia to arthritis to
    > bad looking hair to multiple types of cancers. Nobody's ever seen a
    > colony of rats or mice that didn't. Or an aging set of dogs or cats or
    > zoo animals that didn't, either, for that matter. The only reason you
    > don't see as much of it in the wild, is those animals are all young.
    > In
    > the wild, there are only two kinds of animals-- the quick and the
    > dead.
    > If you ran all humans around a mile track once a month and shot
    > everybody who didn't make it in under 8 minutes, you'd have a pretty
    > healthy looking bunch of humans, too. That's sort of what happens in
    > nature.
    >
    > Speaking of "experience," have you ever had a 15 year-old cat or dog
    > in
    > your life? Or have all your pets been run over by cars, or
    > "disappeared" at the age of 3, as happens with the pets of lowerclass
    > people who've never heard of Animal Control?
    >
    > Tell me about your pets, Richy. Presumably you never took them to
    > vets,
    > who no doubt keep them ill, as a matter of good business. So did they
    > live to be 20, bounding across the room to greet you, the whole time?
    > Then just pass away in their sleep, looking the same as ever?
    >
    > [censored], they did. You might have seen that ONCE. But if you've kept
    > many pets into old age, you've seen the actual truth of what it means
    > to be a mammal. And it's not pretty. And it's not due to doctors.

    Why oh why didn't the Intelligent Designer do a better job on us?
    I know! The Intelligent Designer is a ... sadist!

    Good point.

    In reality, longevity has no evolutionary value. Once you are too old to
    participate in the gene pool your genes no longer count even if you live
    to
    a hundred and beyond. Perhaps wealth has evolutionary value, though. If
    they
    are rich enough, the old guys can attract those young chikas and keep
    playing the game.

    There is a theory that those who survive to grandparenthood have
    evolutionary value in their nurturing and protective role as
    grandparents. Can't remember where I read it though.

    Oops, I just see Cathy had already posted about the
    grandparent effect. I expect that the effect is mentioned
    lots of places.

    George

  18. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > He may be lean toward the slimey side of marketing, but he speaks many
    > surprising truths on the
    > consumer affairs website. Any doctor, any food company, any drug
    > company
    > won't have much business
    > if everybody got healthy. Its simply not in their interest to have
    > perfectly healthy people walking
    > around. A great doctor that sets his patient on the road to health
    > will
    > theorectically lose the
    > client - except for possible annual checkups. Its simply bad for
    > business. And since so many kids
    > go into medicine/research for the big bucks it offers, do you think for
    > a
    > second most of them really
    > care about you? Unprocessed foods, fasting, etc are almost never
    > recommended by the medical
    > profession. Whenever I told my MD about some natural thing I tried
    > that
    > really worked (like cutting
    > out heavy fats in my diet and watching my hay fever immediately
    > dissappear) he wasn't the slightest
    > bit interested. Yet none of the drugs I had taken in the past had
    > worked
    > like that and they ALL had
    > side effects. You could have the cure for cancer and they wouldn't
    > listen
    > to you. It verges on the
    > diabolical. The real problem is a lack of faith. If people would have
    > faith that fasting and
    > natural, simple eating really works they would simply try it.
    > EVERYBODY
    > that tries it acknowledges
    > they feel better. Once they feel better, only an idiot bent on total
    > self
    > destruction would digress
    > back into their previous health choking lifestyle. We live in a
    > strange
    > world.

    You, at least, live in a fantasy world where doctors conspire to keep
    their
    patients sick. The only thing you got right is that Trudeau is slimy.

    Its not a conspiracy. Rather just a better way of doing business
    economically.
    It would take a lot of courage for a doctor to break out of the mold - and
    there
    just isn't much incentive there for them to do it. Especially as their
    costs rise
    and the revenue they were counting on to pay off their student loans,
    offices,
    etc., often dissappoints. Doctors in the emergency ward that work on
    accident
    victims are angels/wizards that deserve the utmost respect.

    I work with ER docs every day. Some are great. Some are dufusses that I
    don't respect at all.

    I meant the principle of what they are doing. I could have been more clear.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The others, well not
    from me. My experiences are born out by many visits to the medical
    profession
    over my lifetime. They are totally useless for anything except diagnosis.

    Totally? That's a pretty tall accusation. When you get your kidney stone,
    after your doctor has diagnosed it, trot right on down to your
    accupuncturist to have it treated.

    But you undoubtedly wouldn't even have the kidney stone following a
    healthy lifestyle. And they won't tell you that for sure.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    They
    are simply not trained to keep the public healthy. They receive almost no
    education in health prevention, nutrition, and other things that common
    sense
    tells us are the cornerstones to health.

    So have you been to med school? Have you even read a med school cirriculum?

    A lifetime of interacting with them has taught me. My family is in the field.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The vast majority keep their own bodies in atrocious condition.

    Some do. "Vast majority" is an exageration you would find hard to support.

    Almost all the ones I see are a disgrace. Nurses are even worse.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Would you take your car to a mechanic that
    can't maintain his own car? We are known by our fruits. Their record in
    disease
    prevention and treatment is abysmal. Why trust someone whose record is so
    very unimpressive?

    Compare the record of medical doctors with the records of practitioners of
    ANY altie modality. Bear in mind that doctors are often treating people who
    are really sick, not just those who think they are sick.

    I have. Just my opinion.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Have you ever tried urine therapy? I have and it works wonders.

    It doesn't.

    What was your experience? (Bet you haven't tried it!)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Have you ever tried a multi day water fast? I have and it works wonders.

    It doesn't.

    Millions of people that have used it throughout history would say you're wrong.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Have you ever eaten not a gram of processed or cooked foods for several
    months and kept to a animal free diet? I have and it works wonders.

    I hope you were paying very close attention to the nutrient content of the
    raw foods you were eating. It's easy to become deficient.

    Yes. Though I was a lot more concerned when I was eating a "normal" diet.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Do you test your diet with intense cardio exercise that sends your
    heartrate
    to 180 bpm for extended periods? I have and its a great test for a diet.

    Such exercise is good for you. I don't really understand how it "tests your
    diet", though

    I guess its like racing a car. You may not notice better fuel until you push
    it to its limits. 180 bpm is a high limit for me and it works. When I used to
    eat the typical diet I would often feel physically ill after pushing myself to
    those limits. With this lifestyle, it never heppens. Exercise, pure food,
    fasting, urine therapy all work to keep you young. Each compliments the
    other.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    You see I have eaten the processed food way, taken the prescription drugs
    when ill and generally trusted the medical profession. Then I tried new
    angles that worked far better. They go to the root cause of the problem.
    Not bandaid solutions that mask symptoms. If I would return to something
    that didn't work, it would be like a dog returning to his own vomit. Once
    you try something better, its a no brainer to continue. The naysayers
    have NEVER gone on multi day fasts. They have NEVER been processed-
    food- free for months. They have NEVER tried urine therapy. I have been
    on both sides - have tried both sides. I have chosen because it works. They
    scoff having zero experience. Its the height of hypocritical ignorance.
    Have a healthy day.

    Your experience is anecdote. Come back and tell us all about it when you get
    really sick.

    Hopefully I won't! I was just reading about parents whose children had been all
    raw/vegan all there lives. No cavities and never had been sick. I've never heard
    of such a thing with normal diets.

  19. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It takes a bold man to write both those sentences in the same
    paragraph. One wonders why you haven't been open-minded enough to try
    vomit-therapy, as dogs sometimes do. I hear it works wonders.

    Yep! Way too long and way too irrelevant.
    May I suggest again taking Writing 101 at your local community college?
    You have my condolences.

    I'll try to keep it more brief next time.

  20. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > He may be lean toward the slimey side of marketing, but he speaks many
    > surprising truths on the
    > consumer affairs website. Any doctor, any food company, any drug
    > company
    > won't have much business
    > if everybody got healthy. Its simply not in their interest to have
    > perfectly healthy people walking
    > around. A great doctor that sets his patient on the road to health
    > will
    > theorectically lose the
    > client - except for possible annual checkups. Its simply bad for
    > business. And since so many kids
    > go into medicine/research for the big bucks it offers, do you think for
    > a
    > second most of them really
    > care about you? Unprocessed foods, fasting, etc are almost never
    > recommended by the medical
    > profession. Whenever I told my MD about some natural thing I tried
    > that
    > really worked (like cutting
    > out heavy fats in my diet and watching my hay fever immediately
    > dissappear) he wasn't the slightest
    > bit interested. Yet none of the drugs I had taken in the past had
    > worked
    > like that and they ALL had
    > side effects. You could have the cure for cancer and they wouldn't
    > listen
    > to you. It verges on the
    > diabolical. The real problem is a lack of faith. If people would have
    > faith that fasting and
    > natural, simple eating really works they would simply try it.
    > EVERYBODY
    > that tries it acknowledges
    > they feel better. Once they feel better, only an idiot bent on total
    > self
    > destruction would digress
    > back into their previous health choking lifestyle. We live in a
    > strange
    > world.

    You, at least, live in a fantasy world where doctors conspire to keep
    their
    patients sick. The only thing you got right is that Trudeau is slimy.

    Its not a conspiracy. Rather just a better way of doing business
    economically.
    It would take a lot of courage for a doctor to break out of the mold - and
    there
    just isn't much incentive there for them to do it. Especially as their
    costs rise
    and the revenue they were counting on to pay off their student loans,
    offices,
    etc., often dissappoints.

    Did it ever occur to you that doctors who have great
    success in making their patients healthy will have long-
    lived clients, lots of referrals, and a practice-building
    reputation? No, I guess not.


    ------------
    In theory that sounds great. I just haven't found that happens in real
    life. It would be wonderful if it did. Though I've never heard of a
    doctor that changed the lifestyle of a patient without saying something
    like, "If you don't stop smoking you will be dead in a few months."
    They just don't seem to care about nature solutions to modern health
    problems. And even if they did, who would they tell to spread the
    good news? Its not exactly an organization seeking input from its
    patients.

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