nashbar ripoffs?

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

You might think this, but it is not true. For example, I bought a great bike 5 or 6 years ago for
$300. I rode the hell outa that bike and sold it for $300. How much value has your stuff retained?

If the bike was new, you are one heck of a sales person to sell the bike for the same amount as you
bought it for.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Many items at the bike shop sell for up to 40% more than in nashbar. So if you can afford it, buy
local. If not, GO NASHBAR!

Yes, you can buy cheap at Nashbar, et. al. That doesn't mean you're getting a good deal. Don't
forget to factor in the poor service typical of mailorder.

What do you mean poor service typical of mailorder? All they need to do is make sure they send out
the stuff you ordered in a timely fashion. They do that most of the time.

Quoted message said:

There's only so much you can do on the phone, and most who answer those phones don't know about
that which they're selling.

This is true, but the same thing also happens at your LBS.

Quoted message said:

How about the follow-up service you'd normally get at a shop?

Some of use don't need it, so why should we pay for it?

Quoted message said:

How about actually being able to hold the parts and examining them for yourself?

Do you really need to hold and examine a tube before you buy it and use it?

Quoted message said:

I'm sorry to say that rock-bottom price joints also cheapen the industry (I'm sorry 'cause I'm in
that industry). This "No-one will beat our price" [censored] is getting ridiculous. I have customers,
and know of people who'll spend hours shopping to save $3.

What's wrong with that? Why should you care how someone else spends their time and money?

Quoted message said:

Imagine a world without bike shops. There would be only mail order joints. That'd suck.

Won't happen. Shops that provide superior service will always be around. People are willing to pay
for superior service. What people are not willing to pay for is attitude and sloppy work.
-----------------
Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)

I think you ripped off the person you sold the $300 bike to. Bike stores are good at pressuring
people to buy stuff just to get it off the floor. Nashbar sells all the same parts the bike store
does and then some. How can parts bought at the bike store retain more value? It's the same stuff no
matter where you get it. I would rather save 40% off the bike store price and not worry about
selling it later. I have never had poor service from nashbar. In fact my orders all arrive a day
early and come with a 10% off coupon for my next order. How do I live with that kind of poor
customer service? I have been told by my LBS that he pays more for his parts than they sell for in
nashbar. Distributors that sell cheap to mail order and then raise prices for bike stores are the
ones you should be [censored]'in at. Again, just my opinion

Just stickin to the facts, Robin

Nate

"Robin Hubert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Nate" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Some of us poor students could never own bikes if it was not for

companies

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

like nashbar.

You might think this, but it is not true. For example, I bought a great bike 5 or 6 years ago for
$300. I rode the hell outa that bike and sold

it

Quoted message said:

for $300. How much value has your stuff retained?

Quoted message said:

Many items at the bike shop sell for up to 40% more than in nashbar. So if you can afford it,
buy local. If not, GO NASHBAR!

Yes, you can buy cheap at Nashbar, et. al. That doesn't mean you're getting a good deal. Don't
forget to factor in the poor service typical of mailorder. There's only so much you can do on the
phone, and most who answer those phones don't know about that which they're selling. How

about

Quoted message said:

the follow-up service you'd normally get at a shop? How about actually being able to hold the
parts and examining them for yourself?

<rambling rant follows>

I'm sorry to say that rock-bottom price joints also cheapen the industry (I'm sorry 'cause I'm
in that industry). This "No-one will beat our

price"

Quoted message said:

[censored] is getting ridiculous. I have customers, and know of people who'll spend hours shopping to
save $3.

Imagine a world without bike shops. There would be only mail order

joints.

Quoted message said:

That'd suck.

Quoted message said:

Just my opinion,

Quoted message said:

Robin Hubert

"Robin Hubert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yes, you can buy cheap at Nashbar, et. al. That doesn't mean you're getting a good deal. Don't
forget to factor in the poor service typical of mailorder. There's only so much you can do on the
phone, and most who answer those phones don't know about that which they're selling. How

about

Quoted message said:

the follow-up service you'd normally get at a shop? How about actually being able to hold the
parts and examining them for yourself?

I support my bike shop -- a buy bikes and service there -- but keeping a deep inventory of a wide
variety of parts and accessories of many brands is not what local shops are good at.

A Shimano 105 double derailleur is what it is. If I shop for price via the catalogs and buy via mail
order, I get the same part I'd get at the LBS. The one from Nashbar will be new in a box, with
instructions. The one from the LBS may have come off a new bike and be just like new, but not be
packaged for retail sale. Does this matter? That's up to the buyer.

If you're going to have the shop install the part, it's one thing. If you're buying a part to
install yourself it's another, and the shop loses its advantage and is playing from its weaknesses:
lack of inventory, etc.

For other kinds of merchandise, catalog operations have even greater advantages. Since
shipping/receiving/inventory control are the core operations of their businesses, handling returns
is (or at least should be) routine. Customers who order things just to see what they're like, how
they fit, how they feel, and who return 90% of what they order, are expected. The costs of handling
these returns and dealing with the returned merchandise are planned for. Local shops often tend to
resist returns because they're proportionally more expensive to process.

If the bike shops have to find new ways to compete, then they do. That's the evolution of business.
But one thing's true: whining about competition instead of actually competing is not a winning
strategy. If they can't compete on the price of parts and accessories, then they have to compete on
sales and service of bicycles, and on other things like fitting, community involvement, sponsorship
of local events, etc.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm sorry to say that rock-bottom price joints also cheapen the industry (I'm sorry 'cause I'm
in that industry).

That's what I mean by "whining."

Quoted message said:

This "No-one will beat our price" [censored] is getting ridiculous. I have customers, and know of people
who'll spend hours shopping to save $3.

And that's their privilege.

Quoted message said:

Imagine a world without bike shops. There would be only mail order

joints.

Quoted message said:

That'd suck.

If I had to use mail order to get a wheel trued or to test-ride a new touring bike, that'd suck. Oh,
wait, the last time I went looking for a touring bike, no shops in the area had one in stock. Uh oh.

RichC

"Nate" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I think you ripped off the person you sold the $300 bike

to. Bike stores are

Quoted message said:

good at pressuring people to buy stuff just to get it off

the floor. Nashbar

Quoted message said:

sells all the same parts the bike store does and then

some. How can parts

Quoted message said:

bought at the bike store retain more value? It's the same

stuff no matter

Quoted message said:

where you get it. I would rather save 40% off the bike

store price and not

Quoted message said:

worry about selling it later. I have never had poor

service from nashbar. In

Quoted message said:

fact my orders all arrive a day early and come with a 10%

off coupon for my

Quoted message said:

next order. How do I live with that kind of poor customer

service? I have

Quoted message said:

been told by my LBS that he pays more for his parts than

they sell for in

Quoted message said:

nashbar. Distributors that sell cheap to mail order and

then raise prices

Quoted message said:

for bike stores are the ones you should be [censored]'in at.

Again, just my

Quoted message said:

opinion

I wonder why the bike industry is so antiquated that bike shops are still buying brand name stuff
from distributors. It's like living in the 1940s. I can understand it for the myriad small parts
from hundreds of generic manufacturers in Taiwan, but not for stuff from Shimano, Campagnolo,
Blackburn, Giro/Bell, etc. There's no reason for that stuff to not come directly from the
manufacturer. I'm quite suprised that companies like Shimano, the relative smartypants of the
industry, have not figured out they could eliminate distributors and take that markup for
themselves. Not only that, they'd be able to keep a running tab on inventory and consumption.

Matt O.

"Nate" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Some of us poor students could never own bikes if it was not for companies like nashbar.

"Robin Hubert" <[email hidden]>> >You might think this, but it is not true. For example, I
bought a great

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bike 5 or 6 years ago for $300. I rode the hell outa that bike and sold

it

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for $300. How much value has your stuff retained?

"Alex Rodriguez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If the bike was new, you are one heck of a sales person to sell the bike for the same amount as
you bought it for.

"Nate"> >> Many items at the bike shop sell for up to 40% more than in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

nashbar. So if you can afford it, buy local. If not, GO NASHBAR!

"Robin Hubert" > >Yes, you can buy cheap at Nashbar, et. al. That doesn't mean you're

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

getting a good deal. Don't forget to factor in the poor service typical

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mailorder.

"Alex Rodriguez"> What do you mean poor service typical of mailorder? All they need to do is

Quoted message said:

make sure they send out the stuff you ordered in a timely fashion. They

do

Quoted message said:

that most of the time.

"Robin Hubert" > >There's only so much you can do on the phone, and most who

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

answer those phones don't know about that which they're selling.

"Alex Rodriguez"> This is true, but the same thing also happens at your LBS.

"Robin Hubert" > >How about

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the follow-up service you'd normally get at a shop?

"Alex Rodriguez"> Some of use don't need it, so why should we pay for it?

"Robin Hubert" > >How about actually

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

being able to hold the parts and examining them for yourself?

"Alex Rodriguez"> Do you really need to hold and examine a tube before you buy it and use it?

Quoted message said:

"Robin Hubert" > > I'm sorry to say that rock-bottom price joints also cheapen the industry

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(I'm sorry 'cause I'm in that industry). This "No-one will beat our

price"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[censored] is getting ridiculous. I have customers, and know of people who'll spend hours shopping to
save $3.

"Alex Rodriguez"> What's wrong with that? Why should you care how someone else spends their

Quoted message said:

time and money?

"Robin Hubert" > >Imagine a world without bike shops. There would be only mail order joints.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That'd suck.

"Alex Rodriguez"> Won't happen. Shops that provide superior service will always be around.

Quoted message said:

People are willing to pay for superior service. What people are not

willing

Quoted message said:

to pay for is attitude and sloppy work.

Both Alex and Robin make good points.

All of us can recite ( and some of us probably will later in this thread) examples of both
exceptional grace and competence and examples of rudeness, ignorance and incompetence.
Proves nothing.

There are many vendors of all descriptions because, as Alex notes, people evaluate problems
differently. For some, price is all. For others it is less important. And most of us change our
criteria with each purchase!

Choice is good! Large outlets wil never horn in on our speciality business and we'll never cause
them any lost sleep. And it's dynamic, not static. Just as we frequently change what we do and how
we do it, Nashbar and their ilk make decisions every day that either enhance or aggravate your
shopping experience.

--
Andrew Muzi yellowjersey.orgyellowjersey.orgOpen ↗ Open every day since 1 April 1971

Great bikes don't sell for $300. And if you sold somebody a 6 year old bike for nearly the same
price that the bike retailed for then you are the one doing the ripping off. A good reason to avoid
at least one local bike shop.

"Robin Hubert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Nate" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Some of us poor students could never own bikes if it was not for

companies

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

like nashbar.

You might think this, but it is not true. For example, I bought a great bike 5 or 6 years ago for
$300. I rode the hell outa that bike and sold

it

Quoted message said:

for $300. How much value has your stuff retained?

Quoted message said:

Many items at the bike shop sell for up to 40% more than in nashbar. So if you can afford it,
buy local. If not, GO NASHBAR!

Yes, you can buy cheap at Nashbar, et. al. That doesn't mean you're getting a good deal. Don't
forget to factor in the poor service typical of mailorder. There's only so much you can do on the
phone, and most who answer those phones don't know about that which they're selling. How

about

Quoted message said:

the follow-up service you'd normally get at a shop? How about actually being able to hold the
parts and examining them for yourself?

<rambling rant follows>

I'm sorry to say that rock-bottom price joints also cheapen the industry (I'm sorry 'cause I'm
in that industry). This "No-one will beat our

price"

Quoted message said:

[censored] is getting ridiculous. I have customers, and know of people who'll spend hours shopping to
save $3.

Imagine a world without bike shops. There would be only mail order

joints.

Quoted message said:

That'd suck.

Quoted message said:

Just my opinion,

Just stick to the facts, son! ;-)

Robin Hubert

You're a God-damned idiot. I bought the bike used (got a good deal, I thought - it was already 6
years old), rode the hell out of it, and sold it, in excellent condition, 2 years later. It was a
'92 Bridgestone RB-1 and worth every penny. The buyer was happy. Where else can you buy and Ultegra
equipped road bike for that kind of money? You ought to speak of that which you know, dumbass. And
please, yes, do avoid my shop.

Robin Hubert

"Jim Quinn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Great bikes don't sell for $300. And if you sold somebody a 6 year old

bike

Quoted message said:

for nearly the same price that the bike retailed for then you are the one doing the ripping off. A
good reason to avoid at least one local bike

shop.

Quoted message said:

"Robin Hubert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Nate" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Some of us poor students could never own bikes if it was not for

companies

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

like nashbar.

You might think this, but it is not true. For example, I bought a great bike 5 or 6 years ago
for $300. I rode the hell outa that bike and sold

it

Quoted message said:

for $300. How much value has your stuff retained?

Quoted message said:

Many items at the bike shop sell for up to 40% more than in nashbar. So if you can afford it,
buy local. If not, GO NASHBAR!

Yes, you can buy cheap at Nashbar, et. al. That doesn't mean you're getting a good deal. Don't
forget to factor in the poor service typical

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mailorder. There's only so much you can do on the phone, and most who answer those phones don't
know about that which they're selling. How

about

Quoted message said:

the follow-up service you'd normally get at a shop? How about actually being able to hold the
parts and examining them for yourself?

<rambling rant follows>

I'm sorry to say that rock-bottom price joints also cheapen the

industry

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(I'm sorry 'cause I'm in that industry). This "No-one will beat our

price"

Quoted message said:

[censored] is getting ridiculous. I have customers, and know of people who'll spend hours shopping to
save $3.

Imagine a world without bike shops. There would be only mail order

joints.

Quoted message said:

That'd suck.

Quoted message said:

Just my opinion,

Just stick to the facts, son! ;-)

Robin Hubert

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

You're a God-damned idiot. I bought the bike used (got a good deal, I thought - it was already 6
years old), rode the hell out of it, and sold it, in excellent condition, 2 years later. It was a
'92 Bridgestone RB-1 and worth every penny. The buyer was happy. Where else can you buy and Ultegra
equipped road bike for that kind of money?

$300 for a 8 year old ultegra is not such a bargain. I would call it average.

Quoted message said:

You ought to speak of that which you know, dumbass. And please, yes, do avoid my shop.

I think your posts will take care of that.
-----------------
Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)

I believe do believe Robin, your comments are what is referred to as flaming. Your right, I would
never stop at your shop. Good reason to buy from Nashbar.

Per Newsgroup FAQ- Flaming: On the Internet, flaming is giving someone a verbal lashing in public.
Often this is on a Usenet newsgroup but it could be on a Web forum or perhaps even as e-mail with
copies to a distribution list. flaming is poor netiquette. Certain issues tend to provoke
emphatically stated responses, but flaming is often directed at a self-appointed expert rather than
at the issues or information itself.

Just sticking to the facts-

Nate

"Robin Hubert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You're a God-damned idiot. I bought the bike used (got a good deal, I thought - it was already 6
years old), rode the hell out of it, and sold

it,

Quoted message said:

in excellent condition, 2 years later. It was a '92 Bridgestone RB-1 and worth every penny. The
buyer was happy. Where else can you buy and

Ultegra

Quoted message said:

equipped road bike for that kind of money? You ought to speak of that

which

Quoted message said:

you know, dumbass. And please, yes, do avoid my shop.

Robin Hubert

"Jim Quinn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Great bikes don't sell for $300. And if you sold somebody a 6 year old

bike

Quoted message said:

for nearly the same price that the bike retailed for then you are the

one

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

doing the ripping off. A good reason to avoid at least one local bike

shop.

Quoted message said:

"Robin Hubert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Nate" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
> Some of us poor students could never own bikes if it was not for

companies

Quoted message said:

> like nashbar.

You might think this, but it is not true. For example, I bought a

great

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bike 5 or 6 years ago for $300. I rode the hell outa that bike and

sold

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it

Quoted message said:

for $300. How much value has your stuff retained?

> Many items at the bike shop sell for up to 40% more than in nashbar. So if you can afford
> it, buy local. If not, GO NASHBAR!

Yes, you can buy cheap at Nashbar, et. al. That doesn't mean you're getting a good deal. Don't
forget to factor in the poor service

typical

Quoted message said:

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mailorder. There's only so much you can do on the phone, and most

who

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

answer those phones don't know about that which they're selling. How

about

Quoted message said:

the follow-up service you'd normally get at a shop? How about

actually

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

being able to hold the parts and examining them for yourself?

<rambling rant follows>

I'm sorry to say that rock-bottom price joints also cheapen the

industry

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(I'm sorry 'cause I'm in that industry). This "No-one will beat our

price"

Quoted message said:

[censored] is getting ridiculous. I have customers, and know of people

who'll

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

spend hours shopping to save $3.

Imagine a world without bike shops. There would be only mail order

joints.

Quoted message said:

That'd suck.

>
> Just my opinion,
>

Just stick to the facts, son! ;-)

Robin Hubert

SJ said:

I heard that Performance bought Nashbar a few years ago and now uses Nashbar for much of its
lower-end merchandise while selling the higher-end stuff through the Performance site/catalog.

I really don't think Performance is any more high end than Nashbar. They sell a lot of the same
stuff (though Performance is usually a little more expensive). Neither is particuarly high end.
They're more like the middle with limited coverage of the high and low ends of the market.

--Bill Davidson
--
Please remove ".nospam" from my address for email replies.

"Nate" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I believe do believe Robin, your comments are what is referred to as flaming. Your right, I would
never stop at your shop. Good reason to buy from Nashbar.

Per Newsgroup FAQ- Flaming: On the Internet, flaming is giving someone a verbal lashing in public.
Often this is on a Usenet newsgroup but it could be on a Web forum or perhaps even as e-mail with
copies to a distribution list. flaming is poor netiquette. Certain issues tend to provoke
emphatically stated responses, but flaming is often directed at a self-appointed expert rather
than at the issues or information itself.

Just sticking to the facts-

Nate

Hey Nate,I don't disagree with you about netiquette (oh, is top-posting good netiquette?), but the
guy basically said I ripped someone off. I have never ripped anyone off. Sure, sometimes I'm a loose
cannon, but I most often treat people with respect unless they mistreat me and if someone calls me
dishonest, they get an earful. I don't have to and won't take that kind of [censored] from anyone. As for
whether or not I ripped anyone off, you all ought to just mind your business and let the buyer
decide that.

Robin Hubert

Quoted message said:

"Robin Hubert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You're a God-damned idiot. I bought the bike used (got a good deal, I thought - it was already 6
years old), rode the hell out of it, and sold

it,

Quoted message said:

in excellent condition, 2 years later. It was a '92 Bridgestone RB-1 and worth every penny. The
buyer was happy. Where else can you buy and

Ultegra

Quoted message said:

equipped road bike for that kind of money? You ought to speak of that

which

Quoted message said:

you know, dumbass. And please, yes, do avoid my shop.

Robin Hubert

"Jim Quinn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Great bikes don't sell for $300. And if you sold somebody a 6 year old

bike

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for nearly the same price that the bike retailed for then you are the

one

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

doing the ripping off. A good reason to avoid at least one local bike

shop.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Robin Hubert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
> "Nate" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
> > Some of us poor students could never own bikes if it was not for

companies

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > like nashbar.
>
> You might think this, but it is not true. For example, I bought a

great

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> bike 5 or 6 years ago for $300. I rode the hell outa that bike and

sold it

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> for $300. How much value has your stuff retained?
>
> > Many items at the bike shop sell for up to 40% more than in nashbar. So if you can afford
> > it, buy local. If not, GO NASHBAR!
>
> Yes, you can buy cheap at Nashbar, et. al. That doesn't mean you're getting a good deal.
> Don't forget to factor in the poor service

typical of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> mailorder. There's only so much you can do on the phone, and most

who

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> answer those phones don't know about that which they're selling. How

about

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> the follow-up service you'd normally get at a shop? How about

actually

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> being able to hold the parts and examining them for yourself?
>
> <rambling rant follows>
>
> I'm sorry to say that rock-bottom price joints also cheapen the

industry

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> (I'm sorry 'cause I'm in that industry). This "No-one will beat our

price"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> [censored] is getting ridiculous. I have customers, and know of people

who'll

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> spend hours shopping to save $3.
>
> Imagine a world without bike shops. There would be only mail order

joints.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> That'd suck.
>
> >
> > Just my opinion,
> >
>
> Just stick to the facts, son! ;-)
>
> Robin Hubert
>
>

Robin Hubert said:

I was trying to help this fellow (my original response) out by enlightening him as to what can be
had without having to resort to mailorder (the business I'm in, BTW) for bikes, and this idiot
slams me for it. And I'm the bad guy! That's funny.

Well, as I read it, you asked the O.P. to compare the value retention of your (used) bike to his
(new) Nashbar gear, without mentioning the very relevant fact that your bike was used. You only
brought this fact (used bike) out when pressed.

This does not make your original argument look very strong. Maybe you intended all along for the
O.P. and everybody else to realize you were talking about used bikes - it would have made a big
difference if this had been said. Used bikes are indeed a bargain, and if you can find an LBS that
sells them, even better.

By the way, since you feel that your harsh words (in a later post) were entirely appropriate,

why not add the name and address of your shop below your name? People who

agree with you would then know who to patronize, and people who don't would

know who to avoid.

Regards,
--
Mark Janeba remove antispam phrase in address to reply

"Mark Janeba" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Robin Hubert said:

I was trying to help this fellow (my original response) out by enlightening him as to what can
be had without having to resort to mailorder (the business I'm in, BTW) for bikes, and this
idiot slams me for it. And I'm the bad guy! That's funny.

Well, as I read it, you asked the O.P. to compare the value retention of your (used) bike to his
(new) Nashbar gear, without mentioning the very relevant fact that your bike was used. You only
brought this fact (used bike) out when pressed.

This does not make your original argument look very strong. Maybe you intended all along for the
O.P. and everybody else to realize you were talking about used bikes - it would have made a big
difference if this had been said. Used bikes are indeed a bargain, and if you can find an LBS that
sells them, even better.

I never said either way. I said I bought a bike. So, if someone assumes that it's new, that makes an
ass out of them and not me.

I bought mine over the internet ... USENET, I think.

Quoted message said:

By the way, since you feel that your harsh words (in a later post) were

entirely appropriate,

Quoted message said:

why not add the name and address of your shop below your name? People who

agree with you would then know who to patronize, and people who don't

would

Quoted message said:

know who to avoid.

Well, because I don't own it. To do so would be stupid but, if you want to ask, plenty of people
know. I've been posting here a long time.

Robin Hubert

I think I've made my point. Thanks for your help Robin

Nate

"Robin Hubert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Nate" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I believe do believe Robin, your comments are what is referred to as flaming. Your right, I
would never stop at your shop. Good reason to buy from Nashbar.

Per Newsgroup FAQ- Flaming: On the Internet, flaming is giving someone a verbal lashing in
public. Often this is on a Usenet newsgroup but it could be on a Web

forum

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

or perhaps even as e-mail with copies to a distribution list. flaming is poor netiquette.
Certain issues tend to provoke emphatically stated responses, but flaming is often directed at a
self-appointed expert

rather

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

than at the issues or information itself.

Just sticking to the facts-

Nate

Hey Nate,I don't disagree with you about netiquette (oh, is top-posting good netiquette?), but the
guy basically said I ripped someone off. I have never ripped anyone off. Sure, sometimes I'm a
loose cannon, but I most often treat people with respect unless they mistreat me and if someone
calls me dishonest, they get an earful. I don't have to and won't take that kind of [censored] from
anyone. As for whether or not I ripped anyone off, you all ought to just mind your business and
let the buyer decide that.

Robin Hubert

Quoted message said:

"Robin Hubert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You're a God-damned idiot. I bought the bike used (got a good deal, I thought - it was already
6 years old), rode the hell out of it, and

sold

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it,

Quoted message said:

in excellent condition, 2 years later. It was a '92 Bridgestone RB-1

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

worth every penny. The buyer was happy. Where else can you buy and

Ultegra

Quoted message said:

equipped road bike for that kind of money? You ought to speak of that

which

Quoted message said:

you know, dumbass. And please, yes, do avoid my shop.

Robin Hubert

"Jim Quinn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
> Great bikes don't sell for $300. And if you sold somebody a 6 year

old

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bike

Quoted message said:

> for nearly the same price that the bike retailed for then you are

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

one

Quoted message said:

> doing the ripping off. A good reason to avoid at least one local

bike

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

shop.

Quoted message said:

>
>
> "Robin Hubert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> "]news:[email hidden]...
> > "Nate" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
> > > Some of us poor students could never own bikes if it was not for

companies

Quoted message said:

> > > like nashbar.
> >
> > You might think this, but it is not true. For example, I bought a

great

Quoted message said:

> > bike 5 or 6 years ago for $300. I rode the hell outa that bike

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

sold it

Quoted message said:

> > for $300. How much value has your stuff retained?
> >
> > > Many items at the bike shop sell for up to 40% more than in nashbar. So if you can
> > > afford it, buy local. If not, GO NASHBAR!
> >
> > Yes, you can buy cheap at Nashbar, et. al. That doesn't mean

you're

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > getting a good deal. Don't forget to factor in the poor service

typical of

Quoted message said:

> > mailorder. There's only so much you can do on the phone, and

most

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

who

Quoted message said:

> > answer those phones don't know about that which they're selling.

How

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

about

Quoted message said:

> > the follow-up service you'd normally get at a shop? How about

actually

Quoted message said:

> > being able to hold the parts and examining them for yourself?
> >
> > <rambling rant follows>
> >
> > I'm sorry to say that rock-bottom price joints also cheapen the

industry

Quoted message said:

> > (I'm sorry 'cause I'm in that industry). This "No-one will beat

our

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

price"

Quoted message said:

> > [censored] is getting ridiculous. I have customers, and know of people

who'll

Quoted message said:

> > spend hours shopping to save $3.
> >
> > Imagine a world without bike shops. There would be only mail

order

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

joints.

Quoted message said:

> > That'd suck.
> >
> > >
> > > Just my opinion,
> > >
> >
> > Just stick to the facts, son! ;-)
> >
> > Robin Hubert
> >
> >
>
>
>

"Nate" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I think I've made my point. Thanks for your help Robin

Well, of course you did Nate old boy. Congratulations.

Robin

Quoted message said:

Nate

"Robin Hubert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Nate" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I believe do believe Robin, your comments are what is referred to as flaming. Your right, I
would never stop at your shop. Good reason to

buy

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

from Nashbar.

Per Newsgroup FAQ- Flaming: On the Internet, flaming is giving someone a verbal lashing

in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

public. Often this is on a Usenet newsgroup but it could be on a Web

forum

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

or perhaps even as e-mail with copies to a distribution list. flaming

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

poor netiquette. Certain issues tend to provoke emphatically stated responses, but flaming is
often directed at a self-appointed expert

rather

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

than at the issues or information itself.

Just sticking to the facts-

Nate

Hey Nate,I don't disagree with you about netiquette (oh, is top-posting good netiquette?), but
the guy basically said I ripped someone off. I have never ripped anyone off. Sure, sometimes I'm
a loose cannon, but I most often treat people with respect unless they mistreat me and if
someone calls me dishonest, they get an earful. I don't have to and won't take that kind of [censored]
from anyone. As for whether or not I ripped anyone off, you all ought to just mind your business
and let the buyer decide that.

Robin Hubert

Quoted message said:

"Robin Hubert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
> You're a God-damned idiot. I bought the bike used (got a good deal,

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> thought - it was already 6 years old), rode the hell out of it, and

sold

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it,
> in excellent condition, 2 years later. It was a '92 Bridgestone

RB-1

Quoted message said:

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> worth every penny. The buyer was happy. Where else can you buy and
Ultegra
> equipped road bike for that kind of money? You ought to speak of

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

which
> you know, dumbass. And please, yes, do avoid my shop.
>
>
> Robin Hubert
>
> "Jim Quinn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> "]news:[email hidden]...
> > Great bikes don't sell for $300. And if you sold somebody a 6

year

Quoted message said:

old

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bike
> > for nearly the same price that the bike retailed for then you are

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

one
> > doing the ripping off. A good reason to avoid at least one local

bike

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

shop.
> >
> >
> > "Robin Hubert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> > "]news:[email hidden]...
> > > "Nate" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
> > > > Some of us poor students could never own bikes if it was not

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

companies
> > > > like nashbar.
> > >
> > > You might think this, but it is not true. For example, I bought

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

great
> > > bike 5 or 6 years ago for $300. I rode the hell outa that bike

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

sold it
> > > for $300. How much value has your stuff retained?
> > >
> > > > Many items at the bike shop sell for up to 40% more than in nashbar. So if you can
> > > > afford it, buy local. If not, GO

NASHBAR!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > >
> > > Yes, you can buy cheap at Nashbar, et. al. That doesn't mean

you're

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > getting a good deal. Don't forget to factor in the poor service
typical of
> > > mailorder. There's only so much you can do on the phone, and

most

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

who
> > > answer those phones don't know about that which they're selling.

How

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

about
> > > the follow-up service you'd normally get at a shop? How about
actually
> > > being able to hold the parts and examining them for yourself?
> > >
> > > <rambling rant follows>
> > >
> > > I'm sorry to say that rock-bottom price joints also cheapen

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

industry
> > > (I'm sorry 'cause I'm in that industry). This "No-one will beat

our

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

price"
> > > [censored] is getting ridiculous. I have customers, and know of

people

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

who'll
> > > spend hours shopping to save $3.
> > >
> > > Imagine a world without bike shops. There would be only mail

order

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

joints.
> > > That'd suck.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Just my opinion,
> > > >
> > >
> > > Just stick to the facts, son! ;-)
> > >
> > > Robin Hubert
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Alex Rodriguez <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

You're a God-damned idiot. I bought the bike used (got a good deal, I thought - it was already 6
years old), rode the hell out of it, and sold

it,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in excellent condition, 2 years later. It was a '92 Bridgestone RB-1 and worth every penny. The
buyer was happy. Where else can you buy and

Ultegra

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

equipped road bike for that kind of money?

$300 for a 8 year old ultegra is not such a bargain. I would call it average.

Ok, Alex. I forgot that you are *the* expert. [censored], all this time I've been researching things to
arrive at fair prices and I could simply consult you!

You pay what you want for your bikes. I really don't care. I just gave an opinion.

Quoted message said:

Price yourself an RB-1. Ask the folks on the IBOB mailing list what is a good price. Get back to us
and post your results. I base my pricing on research and do my best to offer fair pricing (IOW,
what's the going price). Don't forget that all bikes aren't equal, and some maintain desirability
over others (whether you agree with it or not). I'll say it again, "speak of that which you know".

You asked about an ultegra equipped bike, not an RB1 specifically. Your original text is above. To
me an RB-1 is not more special than any other lugged steel frame of the era, so I wouldn't pay more
for it. If you an other folks want to, that's fine. That's your business.
-----------------
Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)

Andrew Muzi, who happens to run one of the best if not the best bike shop in the States, makes some
good points. To expand a little on his posting and some other contributions: Pricing practices of
manufacturers combined with the bulk-buying clout of places like Performance/Nashbar mean there are
areas where it is impossible for small, independent bike shops to be competitive. So, if:

1. you know exactly what you want and
2. how to install it and
3. it is a fairly commonplace item from a major manufacturer

then 99 times out of 100 you will be able to get a better deal from a mail order company.

On the other hand, if

4. you need to know what is available to meet your needs and you also need
5. help/advice evaluating choices/compatibilities etc. or if
6. you need something fixed, not merely replaced or
7. you need something rare, no longer made or perhaps only available used or
8. you need a special service like having a part installed for which the installation tool costs
5-times the price of the part itself or
9. you need an introduction to the local cycling community, information about good rides, friendly
clubs etc. etc.

then there is no substitute for a good local shop with a friendly, knowledgable and receptive staff.
Unfortunately, these are getting harder and harder to find. It is a great mystery to me how the
majority of bike shops survive since they seem only to provide what is readily available by mail
order but for a lot more money. I can't count the number of times a bike shop has been unable to
supply a simple item - a spare spoke, rim tape - or lacked even the most basic knowledge - What's a
freewheel? Don't you mean freeHUB?' - or was unable to re-dish a rear wheel, or was even criminally
negligent - a place that, wonder of wonders, actually had spare 15 gauge spokes, presented them to
me complete with 14 gauge nipples, a recipe for a wheel disaster. I could go on (and have been known
to). Such places deserve to crash and burn.

What bothers me is that a whole generation, tired of having its intelligence insulted or its wallet
unnecessarily lightened by these superfluous operations, will never know about the few outstanding
places and these too will disappear in the dust arising from the failure of the others.

Back to the topic of the thread: I have always had pretty decent service from Nashbar.

Nigel Grinter

Quoted message said:

Both Alex and Robin make good points.

All of us can recite ( and some of us probably will later in this thread) examples of both
exceptional grace and competence and examples of rudeness, ignorance and incompetence. Proves
nothing.

There are many vendors of all descriptions because, as Alex notes, people evaluate problems
differently. For some, price is all. For others it is less important. And most of us change our
criteria with each purchase!

Choice is good! Large outlets wil never horn in on our speciality business and we'll never cause
them any lost sleep. And it's dynamic, not static. Just as we frequently change what we do and how
we do it, Nashbar and their ilk make decisions every day that either enhance or aggravate your
shopping experience.

"Robin Hubert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Well, of course you did Nate old boy. Congratulations.

Robin

FYI Everybody

Robin Hubert Lickton's Cycles 310 Lake Street Oak Park, Illinois 60302
(708) 848-2453
(709) 323-4083 Http://www.lickbike.com

"Friend of Robin Hubert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Robin Hubert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Well, of course you did Nate old boy. Congratulations.

Robin

FYI Everybody

Robin Hubert Lickton's Cycles 310 Lake Street Oak Park, Illinois 60302
(708) 848-2453
(800) 323-4083 Http://www.lickbike.com

My God! I've been outed!!!!

Bad form, old boy. Are you truly a friend, or just Nate?

It's awful cute of you to be anonymous like that. Would you like to post my home phone number and
address as well? I'd be happy to take calls. Don't be shy!

Robin Hubert

"Alex Rodriguez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]... <snip> You asked about an ultegra equipped bike, not
an RB1 specifically.

Quoted message said:

Your original text is above. To me an RB-1 is not more special than any other lugged steel frame
of the era, so I wouldn't pay more for it. If you an other folks want to, that's fine. That's your
business.

Now you're catching on!

Robin Hubert