My Zipp 303 RW shattered!!!

Here is another pic...

Maybe you're too heavy for these wheels. What's your height and weight? And how much does your bike weigh?

If Zipps are delicate then I won't consider getting a pai of 404 tubulars. I'm happy with my Ksyrium SLs and Eurus wheels. Would like HED 3 wheels though.

wilmar13 said:

Here is another pic...

Wow, that's a spectacular failure. You were lucky not to crash. Sounds like max load conditions....max lean puts around 1.3 g's onto the wheel, plus the bumps add a lot of additional shock loads. Imagine Zipp tech support would like to see the photos.

JTE83 said:

Maybe you're too heavy for these wheels. What's your height and weight? And how much does your bike weigh?

Yeah I am a larger than average rider (6'4" 195-200lbs) but I mean come on, these wheels have less than 500 miles on them...It isn't like I hit a hole, or crashed into a curb, I was out of the saddle putting about 1200 watts down (which is less than smaller elite riders can generate). I wish I would have sold them before this happened since I really wasn't all that impressed with them (except they are amazingly light).

dhk said:

Wow, that's a spectacular failure. You were lucky not to crash. Sounds like max load conditions....max lean puts around 1.3 g's onto the wheel, plus the bumps add a lot of additional shock loads. Imagine Zipp tech support would like to see the photos.

Very lucky not to crash... you should see the hole in the tire from the skid, I didn't know one skid could totally melt the tire like that 😄

Yeah, I guess it must have cracked during the turn and then snapped under power... it was terrible timing though.

man, that's some bad luck. is there any warranty on the wheels?

Hey Wilber...

I TOLD YOU SO.

If you had [censored]'n metal wheels this wouldn't have happened. Seriously... what kind of dolt races eggshell fragile carbon fiber wheels in a crit?

Carbon fiber wheels are the only thing that exceed the stupidity of the carbon fiber mountain bike frames. Some things are just better left to metal.

You're gonna learn some day Wilber.

wilmar13 said:

Here is another pic...

IronDonut said:

You're gonna learn some day Wilber.

Well the truth is I already knew better, but I would have never guessed they would have failed like that. When I bought them I was smitten by how light and yet aero they were. Heck they are even built with a 28 spoke count which is rather beefy for Zipps.

Makes my post in response to Fat Hack about Mavic Cosmic Carbones on another thread seem all the more valid (he thought it was a rip-off that they weren't carbon and had a plastic fairing over an aluminum rim, but I argued that if it is more functional it was less of a rip-off). Looks like I will be getting a pair of Carbones sometime in the near future to try or just use my Neutrons for race wheels as even though they have more than 25K on them, they are still good as new.

mdbrown said:

man, that's some bad luck. is there any warranty on the wheels?

Well not that I expected anything different but: Zipp will not warranty the wheel since it happened in a race. They will give me the no fault/crash replacement policy though which really isn't that good. I tried to argue it wasn't a crash as evidenced by the large hole that was burned thru the tire and tube as I skidded to a stop, but they said that since I may have hit a hole or something while sprinting it isn't defective product. Hmmm lets see, I pay to ship the rim to them, so that I can buy another one at a SLIGHTLY reduced cost and pay to ship it back to me so that I can rebuild a wheel that has a very high likelihood of failing again under the conditions for which it is intended to be used... uh yeah I think I will pass. I hate to think of how expensive it was in terms of $/hr used already...

I am probably a giant moron for even considering Zipp again, but I do really like the new 520 rim, maybe I will build a set with Campy Hubs (Zipp hubs are lightweight junk, no matter how good they claim thier bearings are) for a nice set of aero wheels...of course I have not found anywhere that sells just the rim yet, but I would imagine it is pricy... perhaps the 404 clydesdale would be suitable, but I might as well just get a set of Cosmic Carbones as they will have better hubs and probably be at least as tough, equal in aero to the 404 clydesdales, and only slightly less aero than the 808's (520 rim).

Anyone know why Cosmic Carbones would be a bad idea as a set of all around race wheels?

wilmar13 said:

Well not that I expected anything different but: Zipp will not warranty the wheel since it happened in a race. They will give me the no fault/crash replacement policy though which really isn't that good. I tried to argue it wasn't a crash as evidenced by the large hole that was burned thru the tire and tube as I skidded to a stop, but they said that since I may have hit a hole or something while sprinting it isn't defective product. Hmmm lets see, I pay to ship the rim to them, so that I can buy another one at a SLIGHTLY reduced cost and pay to ship it back to me so that I can rebuild a wheel that has a very high likelihood of failing again under the conditions for which it is intended to be used... uh yeah I think I will pass. I hate to think of how expensive it was in terms of $/hr used already...

I am probably a giant moron for even considering Zipp again, but I do really like the new 520 rim, maybe I will build a set with Campy Hubs (Zipp hubs are lightweight junk, no matter how good they claim thier bearings are) for a nice set of aero wheels...of course I have not found anywhere that sells just the rim yet, but I would imagine it is pricy... perhaps the 404 clydesdale would be suitable, but I might as well just get a set of Cosmic Carbones as they will have better hubs and probably be at least as tough, equal in aero to the 404 clydesdales, and only slightly less aero than the 808's (520 rim).

Anyone know why Cosmic Carbones would be a bad idea as a set of all around race wheels?

Hey this is just what the UCI wheel tests are designed to produce. They don't want anyone to get hurt by a broken spoke so their test rewards wheels that fail that way rather than break a spoke. So it's working as designed to pass the UCI test. Unfortunately I think most of us would rather replace a spoke than a rim.

Well wilmar it's obvious that your explosive sprint power has finally gotten the best of you. I can tell by looking at the pics that the wheel was not destroyed by a bump, but by sheer torque. You should be racing on 36 hole, 3-cross traditional rims. 🙂

Any chance on a warranty replacement for the 303's?

wilmar13 said:

OK, if you have read some of my posts you know that I don't put much value in the whole rotational inertia thing, but I do like light-weight aero carbon bling all the same so I have (had) a pair of 303 tubs for racing... well today I managed to exploit their weakness in a spectacular fashion. I was racing in a two corner crit in an industrial park and doing pretty well, on the last lap I knew that I would not win the sprint so while everyone was sitting up and looking around to see who would jump, I went, dove into the last corner off the front and as I cleared the curb stood up to sprint for the line... I heard a strange crunch and my rear wheel locked up, somehow I didn't go down, and didn't take anyone down with me since I had about 20M on everyone. I skidded on the outside to a stop about 100M from the finish and looked down to see my wheel totally broken and locked against the chainstay. I bunch of people came running up to me and find out what happened...it was so weird the wheel did not come out of the dropouts, but it had broken so badly that it locked itself onto the chainstays. I was so [censored]! I don't know how it happened except that maybe it broke in the turn (it was very bumpy and I was at max tilt) and then when I got out of the saddle it bent it into the chainstay. Either way it sucks as these are reletively new wheels. I have only ever seen wheels that looked like this after a crash... Check out the pics, the only thing keeping the rim together is the tire and remaining spokes.

Sorry about your wheel, and glad to hear you didn't crash. But, dude, I wish I could rip a rim in two with my sprinting!!!!

wilmar13 said:

I am probably a giant moron for even considering Zipp again, but I do really like the new 520 rim, maybe I will build a set with Campy Hubs (Zipp hubs are lightweight junk, no matter how good they claim thier bearings are) for a nice set of aero wheels...of course I have not found anywhere that sells just the rim yet, but I would imagine it is pricy... perhaps the 404 clydesdale would be suitable, but I might as well just get a set of Cosmic Carbones as they will have better hubs and probably be at least as tough, equal in aero to the 404 clydesdales, and only slightly less aero than the 808's (520 rim).

I think Campy hubs are [censored] and that Zipp hubs are the best. My Campagnolo Eurus wheels with record hubs have a lot of friction - like if the skewers are put level with the ground they don't rotate due to gravity. I think these Campy hub are costing me 5 to 15 watts of power. Zipp hubs are frictionless, and I'm thinking of getting a set of Zipp 404 tubulars next year. But they may be wasted on me as I only do 19.8 mph average at 87% MHR average (that's what I did today on a 7 mile lap with no wind).

I'm lucky that I'm only 145lbs naked / 160 lbs with a pack of gear on.

Wilber,

In addition to being a bad [censored] you're also a boyscout. Take the wheel in for warrenty and don't tell them you were racing.

If I spent that much on a wheel and it folded up on smooth pavement I'd raise hell.

wilmar13 said:

Well not that I expected anything different but: Zipp will not warranty the wheel since it happened in a race. They will give me the no fault/crash replacement policy though which really isn't that good.

John M said:

Sorry about your wheel, and glad to hear you didn't crash. But, dude, I wish I could rip a rim in two with my sprinting!!!!

Ah if I can do it many others can, like I said I don't make much power compared to elite riders.

mises said:

Hey this is just what the UCI wheel tests are designed to produce. They don't want anyone to get hurt by a broken spoke so their test rewards wheels that fail that way rather than break a spoke. So it's working as designed to pass the UCI test. Unfortunately I think most of us would rather replace a spoke than a rim.

That is messed up, I didn't know that. But since it broke so bad it locked in my chainstay (at 55kmph) in addition to replacement worries, failure mode seems to be preferable with a broken spoke at least to my ignorance... but hearing a "toink", and having my wheel go out of true is worse than having my wheel snap in half and lock into my frame at speed I guess. Thanks UCI bureaucrats.

JTE83 said:

I think Campy hubs are [censored] and that Zipp hubs are the best. My Campagnolo Eurus wheels with record hubs have a lot of friction - like if the skewers are put level with the ground they don't rotate due to gravity. I think these Campy hub are costing me 5 to 15 watts of power. Zipp hubs are frictionless, and I'm thinking of getting a set of Zipp 404 tubulars next year. But they may be wasted on me as I only do 19.8 mph average at 87% MHR average (that's what I did today on a 7 mile lap with no wind).

I'm lucky that I'm only 145lbs naked / 160 lbs with a pack of gear on.

Different strokes for different folks. I prefer to ride on my wheels, but you are free to judge them while spinning them by hand if you like.

IronDonut said:

Wilber,

In addition to being a bad [censored] you're also a boyscout. Take the wheel in for warrenty and don't tell them you were racing.

If I spent that much on a wheel and it folded up on smooth pavement I'd raise hell.

Yeah well my morals cost more than $350... and the corner was pretty rough. Besides no matter what I told Zipp, they were not going to do anything but give me the no fault replacement policy. I bought them new from an ebay dealer that is not "authorized" to sell Zipp. Great little loophole for them to avoid doing the right thing.

After thinking about it some more, IMO what happened was that it must have cracked during the corner when I was leaned over really hard, and hit some bumpy pavement... then when I put the power down the torque split the rim hard enough that it caught the chainstay (and probably doing more damage). I don't see any other way it could have happened. Either way, even if they warranted it, how long would it be before it broke again. It wouldn't be worth it to me to ride them again even for a free replacement... and yeah I could just sell them, but remember I am a boyscout and would feel bad about profiting (or rather recovering my losses) at the cost of someone else's misfortune.

More CF is for suckers ammo... but yeah, I think I will stick to metal rims from now on. Cosmic Carbones seem to be the best choice, (Shamals would be awesome I wish I had a pair), the American Classic wheel is too flimsy, and I don't like the paired spoke of the Shimano wheels or Eurus.

cydewaze said:

Well wilmar it's obvious that your explosive sprint power has finally gotten the best of you. I can tell by looking at the pics that the wheel was not destroyed by a bump, but by sheer torque. You should be racing on 36 hole, 3-cross traditional rims. 🙂

Any chance on a warranty replacement for the 303's?

I know I sound like a broken record, but I have had all kinds of 32 spoke wheels over the years and I always broke spokes... I have a pair of Neutrons that have never gone out of true, have never broken a spoke, have been ridden in all kinds of weather, riden on mountain dirt roads, taken a beating on all kinds of lunar like surface which passes for roads in Brazil... they only have 22 spokes in front and 24 in rear... I don't think spoke count is all that matters. Perhaps I have a freak pair, but the 600 bucks I spent for them 4 or 5 years ago was the best bicycling investment I ever made...
Oh and guys I don't have explosive power, I am a nobody even in amateur racing. 😄