My wheels are making me nuts! ;)

Daniel Crispin said:

I purchased by bike a month ago. I had to get my spokes re-tightened

You needed it trued (if it was out of true, as in, the rim was
wobbly but the hub was straight), or you needed the spokes
re-tensioned (if they were even with eachother but not tight
enough), or both.

Quoted message said:

One of the shop I went to told me that because I was heavy, my wheels will
need to be adjusted often. Also told me that my spokes were low quality
and that made it worth. He wanted to sell me a new wheel for the back

Sounds like the quality issue is not the spokes, but rather, the
person (or machine) who built the wheel. For loads of discussion on
this issue, go to groups.google.com and search the rec.bicycles.tech
group. The spokes where probably never properly tensioned, and the
wheel was not "stress relieved", which is an important step in good
wheelbuilding but not so commonly practiced.

It could also be the wrong wheel for you; if you're heavy, you
probably should have 32 spokes or more. Even so, I'd suspect a bad
build as a contributing factor.

Quoted message said:

Does this make any sense? He offered to sell me a Deore wheel with Anodized
spokes and dual walled frame. Pretty similar to what I have except for the
spokes. 100 CAN$.

I wouldn't buy another wheel from the same shop. Try to find a local
shop with a _good_ wheelbuilder, or locate one elsewhere who can
build you a wheel and mail it to you. There are a few good
wheelbuilders on rec.bicycles.tech who post daily.
--
Rick Onanian

Well, I weigh 240 lbs and my bike is in the shop...

I've broken a spoke on the rear wheel twice. After the second one I rode
100 lbs before I found a loose spoke on the rear wheel. So now the bike
shop is rebuilding my rear wheel (which they should have done after the
first one since this is a new bike bought last fall). They've had my bike
since Monday, and I was supposed to pick it up today. I call them on the
way home to see if it is ready, but I find they don't have black spokes. I
don't want silver spokes as I may sell those wheels.

So, I'm going to have a custom set of wheels built (not by the bike shop).
I would do it myself but I'd lose too much time from riding while trying to
learn. I'll learn after I get riding again. I just wish I had my bike -- it
looks like I won't get to ride this weekend, either.

I must be free of the LBS for the mechanical needs of my bike.

Somehow, I don't think the problem is just the spokes, but I'm a noob, so
don't listen to me.

Daniel Crispin wrote:
:: I need some advice here.
::
:: I purchased by bike a month ago. I had to get my spokes re-tightened
:: (forget that word, my first language is French and I have no idea
:: for the correct english term) about a week ago. Today as I was
:: riding the bike started making the same racket noise that it did
:: before I had my wheels fixed.
::
:: One of the shop I went to told me that because I was heavy, my
:: wheels will need to be adjusted often. Also told me that my spokes
:: were low quality and that made it worth. He wanted to sell me a new
:: wheel for the back because that is where most of my weight is when I
:: ride. Said the rest of my wheel
:: is good quality but the spokes are not. I wanted to have the spokes
:: replaced but he said it would cost more than purchase a new wheel
:: entirelly...
::
:: Does this make any sense? He offered to sell me a Deore wheel with
:: Anodized spokes and dual walled frame. Pretty similar to what I
:: have except for the spokes. 100 CAN$.

Roger Zoul said:

So now the bike
shop is rebuilding my rear wheel (which they should have done after the
first one since this is a new bike bought last fall). They've had my bike
since Monday <snip>

They need the whole bike just to rebuild the wheel?

They couldn't loan you a wheel to ride while they rebuild it? I
mean, for all your trouble and everything...

Quoted message said:

Somehow, I don't think the problem is just the spokes, but I'm a noob, so
don't listen to me.

The OP's problem is not cheap spokes.
--
Rick Onanian

Daniel Crispin said:

He offered to sell me a Deore wheel with Anodized
spokes and dual walled frame. Pretty similar to what I have except for the
spokes. 100 CAN$.

You might want to buy stronger wheels, but I wouldn't buy them from the
same guys that sold you the bike 😄 😉

You can spend about $200 usd to get a decent set of handbuilt wheels or
you can shop around--I recently saw a nice pair of Ritchey 36 spoke offset
rims with DT spokes and Deore hubs at the local REI on sale for less than
$100usd. Having two complete sets of wheels with different types of
tires is very luxurious if you can afford it.

Another poster mentioned 32 spoke wheels--I'm going to recommend
36 spoke wheels if you have a choice. Unless you're racing, you won't feel
the difference and not having to true them very often is nice.

Handbuilt wheels are very reliable, but I've had good luck with machine
built--if they're touched up after the first couple rides [by me 😄]

Good luck!

Rick Onanian wrote:
:: On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 18:11:38 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
:: <[email hidden]> wrote:
::: So now the bike
::: shop is rebuilding my rear wheel (which they should have done after
::: the first one since this is a new bike bought last fall). They've
::: had my bike since Monday <snip>
::
:: They need the whole bike just to rebuild the wheel?
::
:: They couldn't loan you a wheel to ride while they rebuild it? I
:: mean, for all your trouble and everything...

Hmm.....didn't think to ask that til now....thanks...

::
::: Somehow, I don't think the problem is just the spokes, but I'm a
::: noob, so don't listen to me.
::
:: The OP's problem is not cheap spokes.
:: --
:: Rick Onanian

On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 20:06:17 -0400, "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Rick Onanian wrote:
:: On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 18:11:38 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
:: <[email hidden]> wrote:
::: So now the bike
::: shop is rebuilding my rear wheel (which they should have done after
::: the first one since this is a new bike bought last fall). They've
::: had my bike since Monday <snip>
::
:: They need the whole bike just to rebuild the wheel?
::
:: They couldn't loan you a wheel to ride while they rebuild it? I
:: mean, for all your trouble and everything...

Hmm.....didn't think to ask that til now....thanks...

Doesn't that just drive ya nuts, though? You'd think they'd suggest that,
at least to a good customer.

Wish I had a LBS like Mike J's around here. Read his site from
cover-to-cover if you get a chance - lots of good tips on stuff like this.

(Heck if I hadn't read this ng, I'd have paid about $85 more for my Trek
last month.)

Good luck and wishes for a fast repair and return of your steed, man.

-B

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

He offered to sell me a Deore wheel with Anodized
spokes and dual walled frame. Pretty similar to what I have except for

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

spokes. 100 CAN$.

You might want to buy stronger wheels, but I wouldn't buy them from the
same guys that sold you the bike 😄 😉

What do you mean by stronger wheels? Deore is high-midrange and dual walled
(or what ever it is called in english) is the best frame you can get. I
have talking
tech because all my tech books are in french and I can't explain easilly...

Quoted message said:

You can spend about $200 usd to get a decent set of handbuilt wheels or
you can shop around--I recently saw a nice pair of Ritchey 36 spoke offset
rims with DT spokes and Deore hubs at the local REI on sale for less than
$100usd. Having two complete sets of wheels with different types of
tires is very luxurious if you can afford it.

When you say hand build, do you mean putting the wheel together or forging
the rim?
I really doubt a rim can be forged by hand better than a machine can do it.
If you are
talking about putting the wheel together, then yes I agree it might be
better done by hand.
But I don't want to spend 200$ on a wheel when I have one that is only a
month old and
is supposed to be of good quality. If the spokes are the problem it might
be worth it to
replace them. 36$ plus labour will cost me maybe 60 CAN$. Not bad compared
to 200
US$.

Quoted message said:

Another poster mentioned 32 spoke wheels--I'm going to recommend
36 spoke wheels if you have a choice. Unless you're racing, you won't feel
the difference and not having to true them very often is nice.

Well that is what I have... I counted 35 but I must have missed one 😉

Daniel Crispin said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

He offered to sell me a Deore wheel with Anodized
spokes and dual walled frame. Pretty similar to what I have except for

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

spokes. 100 CAN$.

Well that is what I have... I counted 35 but I must have missed one 😉

<lots of snips>
You have a brand new wheel with 36 spokes. You probably need a decent
bike mechanic to re-tension your wheel. It's just like a rebuild.
Should cost no more than $40 CAD.
Saying that, you didn't say how much you weigh, or if you are beating
the rim on curbs, etc.
I have gone thru some wheel truing and tensioning problems in the past
few years. If the rim is not ruined, a decent shop can make your wheel
good as new. IMO, the hard thing is finding the shop that will properly
do the job.
I tend to agree with previous poster who advised not to buy a new wheel
from the shop that just sold you a new bike, then told you the nearly
new wheel was no good. Do tell more about your experiences, and about
the wheel, etc.
For an example, my bike mechanic took my "found in a dumpster" old
mountain bike rear wheel, which was dirty but not abused, re-tensioned
all the spokes (replaced none) and made it strong and true. It works
great, and I expect it to last a long time. He charged me less than $40
too.

Best regards, Bernie

Daniel Crispin wrote:
:::: He offered to sell me a Deore wheel with Anodized
:::: spokes and dual walled frame. Pretty similar to what I have
:::: except for the spokes. 100 CAN$.
:::
::: You might want to buy stronger wheels, but I wouldn't buy them from
::: the same guys that sold you the bike 😄 😉
::
:: What do you mean by stronger wheels? Deore is high-midrange and
:: dual walled (or what ever it is called in english) is the best frame
:: you can get. I have talking
:: tech because all my tech books are in french and I can't explain
:: easilly...
::
::: You can spend about $200 usd to get a decent set of handbuilt
::: wheels or you can shop around--I recently saw a nice pair of
::: Ritchey 36 spoke offset rims with DT spokes and Deore hubs at the
::: local REI on sale for less than $100usd. Having two complete sets
::: of wheels with different types of tires is very luxurious if you
::: can afford it.
::
:: When you say hand build, do you mean putting the wheel together or
:: forging the rim?
:: I really doubt a rim can be forged by hand better than a machine can
:: do it. If you are
:: talking about putting the wheel together, then yes I agree it might
:: be better done by hand.
:: But I don't want to spend 200$ on a wheel when I have one that is
:: only a month old and
:: is supposed to be of good quality. If the spokes are the problem it
:: might be worth it to
:: replace them. 36$ plus labour will cost me maybe 60 CAN$. Not bad
:: compared to 200
:: US$.

Get them to fix it under warranty. If they can't fix it, then have them
replace it. It could have been a poorly made wheel from teh get-go.

:::
::: Another poster mentioned 32 spoke wheels--I'm going to recommend
::: 36 spoke wheels if you have a choice. Unless you're racing, you
::: won't feel the difference and not having to true them very often is
::: nice.
::
:: Well that is what I have... I counted 35 but I must have missed one
:: 😉

Badger_South wrote:
:: On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 20:06:17 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
:: <[email hidden]> wrote:
::
::: Rick Onanian wrote:
::::: On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 18:11:38 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
::::: <[email hidden]> wrote:
:::::: So now the bike
:::::: shop is rebuilding my rear wheel (which they should have done
:::::: after the first one since this is a new bike bought last fall).
:::::: They've had my bike since Monday <snip>
:::::
::::: They need the whole bike just to rebuild the wheel?
:::::
::::: They couldn't loan you a wheel to ride while they rebuild it? I
::::: mean, for all your trouble and everything...
:::
::: Hmm.....didn't think to ask that til now....thanks...
::
:: Doesn't that just drive ya nuts, though? You'd think they'd suggest
:: that, at least to a good customer.
::
:: Wish I had a LBS like Mike J's around here. Read his site from
:: cover-to-cover if you get a chance - lots of good tips on stuff like
:: this.

I'm not sure if I know that site...

::
:: (Heck if I hadn't read this ng, I'd have paid about $85 more for my
:: Trek last month.)
::
:: Good luck and wishes for a fast repair and return of your steed, man.

Thanks...now is when a good second bike would be handy...

::
:: -B

On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 23:25:23 -0400, "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

:: Wish I had a LBS like Mike J's around here. Read his site from
:: cover-to-cover if you get a chance - lots of good tips on stuff like
:: this.

I'm not sure if I know that site...

Mike's site is:

http://www.chainreaction.com/

-B

Rick Onanian wrote:
:: On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 18:11:38 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
:: <[email hidden]> wrote:
::: So now the bike
::: shop is rebuilding my rear wheel (which they should have done after
::: the first one since this is a new bike bought last fall). They've
::: had my bike since Monday <snip>
::
:: They need the whole bike just to rebuild the wheel?
::
:: They couldn't loan you a wheel to ride while they rebuild it? I
:: mean, for all your trouble and everything...

I'm going to get my bike with a loaner rear wheel in a few minutes. Thanks
much for the idea.

Roger Zoul said:

Rick Onanian wrote:
:: They couldn't loan you a wheel to ride while they rebuild it? I
:: mean, for all your trouble and everything...

I'm going to get my bike with a loaner rear wheel in a few minutes. Thanks
much for the idea.

Sheesh, I said something, and it actually _helped_ somebody? Wow.
Hell must have frozen over... <BFG>

Er...you're quite welcome. Happy to help. Etc.
--
Rick Onanian

Daniel Crispin said:

But I don't want to spend 200$ on a wheel when I have one that is only a
month old and
is supposed to be of good quality. If the spokes are the problem it might
be worth it to
replace them. 36$ plus labour will cost me maybe 60 CAN$. Not bad compared
to 200 US$.

Consider having your existing wheel tensioned and trued by a good
wheelbuilder. You'll just be paying for the labor, using your old
parts, but you'll get an essentially new wheel out of it.
--
Rick Onanian

Rick Onanian wrote:
:: On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:58:37 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
:: <[email hidden]> wrote:
::: Rick Onanian wrote:
::::: They couldn't loan you a wheel to ride while they rebuild it? I
::::: mean, for all your trouble and everything...
:::
::: I'm going to get my bike with a loaner rear wheel in a few minutes.
::: Thanks much for the idea.
::
:: Sheesh, I said something, and it actually _helped_ somebody? Wow.
:: Hell must have frozen over... <BFG>
::
:: Er...you're quite welcome. Happy to help. Etc.

I was suprised that they put a brand new wheel on it, with a new tire, too.

Ok Bernie, full story then 😉

I weight 280, the bike is an aluminium frame hybrid with front suspension
and seat suspension.

The wheel itself have dual wall (is that the right term?) rim made by
Shining Extro (never heard of them)
and the middle part (moyeux in French) is from an other company I never
heard of: Joytech.
The guy told me the spokes were not stainless steel. I don't know what
comes bellow stainless steel,
steel maybe? He said they tendend to dull out, become white and break
rather quickly comparer to higher
quality spokes.

I had the wheel checked at a repair store, they don't sell bikes. Guy
seemed competent when I talked to him.
He said around 40$ to rebuild the wheel, which is what everyone seems to
agree on being a good price. He
simply said that it was not a great solution because of the low quality of
the spokes.

I ride on roads only. I don't jump sidewalks or do anything drastic. I
will of course hit a bump or pothole once in
a while but I try to go around them when possible. I 'have added a rack to
the rear and got 2 bags to go on it.
I use it to do my grocery among other things and that can sometimes add 50
or more pounds directly on the wheel.

Right now I am hesitating on 3 choices:

1. Have the wheel re-tentioned for 40$
2. Have the wheel re-tentioned and change the spokes for 40$ plus about 36$
for the spokes (total 76$)
3. Buy the wheel he suggests with the dual walled rim, Deore center piece
and high quality anodized spokes for 95$

One way or an other the racket has got to stop, it's driving me insane...
sounds like I am dragging a bunch of beer cans behind me.

"Bernie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Daniel Crispin said:

Quoted message said:

>He offered to sell me a Deore wheel with Anodized
>spokes and dual walled frame. Pretty similar to what I have except for
>

the

Quoted message said:

>spokes. 100 CAN$.
>

Well that is what I have... I counted 35 but I must have missed one 😉

<lots of snips>
You have a brand new wheel with 36 spokes. You probably need a decent
bike mechanic to re-tension your wheel. It's just like a rebuild.
Should cost no more than $40 CAD.
Saying that, you didn't say how much you weigh, or if you are beating
the rim on curbs, etc.
I have gone thru some wheel truing and tensioning problems in the past
few years. If the rim is not ruined, a decent shop can make your wheel
good as new. IMO, the hard thing is finding the shop that will properly
do the job.
I tend to agree with previous poster who advised not to buy a new wheel
from the shop that just sold you a new bike, then told you the nearly
new wheel was no good. Do tell more about your experiences, and about
the wheel, etc.
For an example, my bike mechanic took my "found in a dumpster" old
mountain bike rear wheel, which was dirty but not abused, re-tensioned
all the spokes (replaced none) and made it strong and true. It works
great, and I expect it to last a long time. He charged me less than $40
too.

Best regards, Bernie

Hum... I am not sure the warranty would apply... it's not broken... just out
of adjustment.

Cost nothing to try though. I will go talk to the tech at the store I
purchased the bike from.

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Daniel Crispin wrote:
:::: He offered to sell me a Deore wheel with Anodized
:::: spokes and dual walled frame. Pretty similar to what I have
:::: except for the spokes. 100 CAN$.
:::
::: You might want to buy stronger wheels, but I wouldn't buy them from
::: the same guys that sold you the bike 😄 😉
::
:: What do you mean by stronger wheels? Deore is high-midrange and
:: dual walled (or what ever it is called in english) is the best frame
:: you can get. I have talking
:: tech because all my tech books are in french and I can't explain
:: easilly...
::
::: You can spend about $200 usd to get a decent set of handbuilt
::: wheels or you can shop around--I recently saw a nice pair of
::: Ritchey 36 spoke offset rims with DT spokes and Deore hubs at the
::: local REI on sale for less than $100usd. Having two complete sets
::: of wheels with different types of tires is very luxurious if you
::: can afford it.
::
:: When you say hand build, do you mean putting the wheel together or
:: forging the rim?
:: I really doubt a rim can be forged by hand better than a machine can
:: do it. If you are
:: talking about putting the wheel together, then yes I agree it might
:: be better done by hand.
:: But I don't want to spend 200$ on a wheel when I have one that is
:: only a month old and
:: is supposed to be of good quality. If the spokes are the problem it
:: might be worth it to
:: replace them. 36$ plus labour will cost me maybe 60 CAN$. Not bad
:: compared to 200
:: US$.

Get them to fix it under warranty. If they can't fix it, then have them
replace it. It could have been a poorly made wheel from teh get-go.

:::
::: Another poster mentioned 32 spoke wheels--I'm going to recommend
::: 36 spoke wheels if you have a choice. Unless you're racing, you
::: won't feel the difference and not having to true them very often is
::: nice.
::
:: Well that is what I have... I counted 35 but I must have missed one
:: 😉

Daniel Crispin wrote:
:: Hum... I am not sure the warranty would apply... it's not broken...
:: just out of adjustment.

But it should not be....

::
:: Cost nothing to try though. I will go talk to the tech at the store
:: I purchased the bike from.

Good idea....they saw you when they sold you the bike...

::
::
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:[email hidden]...
::: Daniel Crispin wrote:
::::::: He offered to sell me a Deore wheel with Anodized
::::::: spokes and dual walled frame. Pretty similar to what I have
::::::: except for the spokes. 100 CAN$.
::::::
:::::: You might want to buy stronger wheels, but I wouldn't buy them
:::::: from the same guys that sold you the bike 😄 😉
:::::
::::: What do you mean by stronger wheels? Deore is high-midrange and
::::: dual walled (or what ever it is called in english) is the best
::::: frame you can get. I have talking
::::: tech because all my tech books are in french and I can't explain
::::: easilly...
:::::
:::::: You can spend about $200 usd to get a decent set of handbuilt
:::::: wheels or you can shop around--I recently saw a nice pair of
:::::: Ritchey 36 spoke offset rims with DT spokes and Deore hubs at the
:::::: local REI on sale for less than $100usd. Having two complete
:::::: sets
:::::: of wheels with different types of tires is very luxurious if you
:::::: can afford it.
:::::
::::: When you say hand build, do you mean putting the wheel together or
::::: forging the rim?
::::: I really doubt a rim can be forged by hand better than a machine
::::: can do it. If you are
::::: talking about putting the wheel together, then yes I agree it
::::: might
::::: be better done by hand.
::::: But I don't want to spend 200$ on a wheel when I have one that is
::::: only a month old and
::::: is supposed to be of good quality. If the spokes are the problem
::::: it might be worth it to
::::: replace them. 36$ plus labour will cost me maybe 60 CAN$. Not bad
::::: compared to 200
::::: US$.
:::
::: Get them to fix it under warranty. If they can't fix it, then have
::: them replace it. It could have been a poorly made wheel from teh
::: get-go.
:::
::::::
:::::: Another poster mentioned 32 spoke wheels--I'm going to recommend
:::::: 36 spoke wheels if you have a choice. Unless you're racing, you
:::::: won't feel the difference and not having to true them very often
:::::: is nice.
:::::
::::: Well that is what I have... I counted 35 but I must have missed
::::: one 😉

Daniel Crispin said:

Ok Bernie, full story then 😉

I weight 280, the bike is an aluminium frame hybrid with front suspension
and seat suspension.

I owned similar, but no suspension forks.

Quoted message said:

The wheel itself have dual wall (is that the right term?) rim made by
Shining Extro (never heard of them)
and the middle part (moyeux in French) is from an other company I never
heard of: Joytech.

Never heard of them either. Sounds like cheap Asian parts... but that's
not uncommon.

Quoted message said:

The guy told me the spokes were not stainless steel. I don't know what
comes bellow stainless steel,
steel maybe? He said they tendend to dull out, become white and break
rather quickly comparer to higher
quality spokes.

Straight gauge galavanized steel spokes. My mechanic considers them to
be fairly low quality compared to stainless steel spokes.

Quoted message said:

I had the wheel checked at a repair store, they don't sell bikes. Guy
seemed competent when I talked to him.
He said around 40$ to rebuild the wheel, which is what everyone seems to
agree on being a good price. He
simply said that it was not a great solution because of the low quality of
the spokes.

He may be correct.

Quoted message said:

I ride on roads only. I don't jump sidewalks or do anything drastic. I
will of course hit a bump or pothole once in
a while but I try to go around them when possible. I 'have added a rack to
the rear and got 2 bags to go on it.
I use it to do my grocery among other things and that can sometimes add 50
or more pounds directly on the wheel.

Keep the load balanced. Between you and the groceries you are carrying
lots. FWIW, I weigh about 205 lbs these days and broke several rear
spokes and eventually destroyed a rear wheel doing similarly. The
solution was a properly tensioned wheel (Deore hub, stainless spokes,
double wall rim, discounted to about $100 cad). I kept on loading
everything I wanted to put on it!
Q: do you have 700c or 26 inch wheels?

Quoted message said:

Right now I am hesitating on 3 choices:

1. Have the wheel re-tentioned for 40$
2. Have the wheel re-tentioned and change the spokes for 40$ plus about 36$
for the spokes (total 76$)
3. Buy the wheel he suggests with the dual walled rim, Deore center piece
and high quality anodized spokes for 95$

Well, it's your call. The wheel sounds like a cheapie, so I would not
spend the $76. You will quite possibly get a lot of miles out of the
$40 retensioning...
#3 is possibly the best choice, but personally, I don't know.

Quoted message said:

One way or an other the racket has got to stop, it's driving me insane...
sounds like I am dragging a bunch of beer cans behind me.

One way or the other, the mechanic you are seeing now can make that
noise go away. You definitely need a properly built wheel right away.

Best regards, Bernie
(this has been very interesting)