my usual problem...

5mm... would it really make that much difference ?

"Luca Magnoni" <l u c a . m a g n o n i @ t i n . i t> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I need an advice on wether or not I should buy a Campy gruppo.

I have found a NOS Campagnolo Record 8 speed (year 96), brand new and w-o-n-d-e-r-f-u-l! But, it's
my usual problem, I use 165 mm crancks and there's nothing available that I could use to replace
the 170mm crancks

the

Quoted message said:

gruppo comes with.

So, I could put a 9-speed (year 99) Ultegra crancks on with a Shimano bb that I have here
(right length of course), but will it work, or will the 8-speed chain get stuck between the
chainrings etc?

As I get a very good deal on the gruppo, I'd really like to buy but I wouldn't like to be forced
to use the 170 mm.

Thanks in advance for your advice Luca

Luca Magnoni said:

I need an advice on wether or not I should buy a Campy gruppo.

I have found a NOS Campagnolo Record 8 speed (year 96), brand new and w-o-n-d-e-r-f-u-l! But, it's
my usual problem, I use 165 mm crancks and there's nothing available that I could use to replace
the 170mm crancks the gruppo comes with.

So, I could put a 9-speed (year 99) Ultegra crancks on with a Shimano bb that I have here
(right length of course), but will it work, or will the 8-speed chain get stuck between the
chainrings etc?

This will work fine.

Quoted message said:

As I get a very good deal on the gruppo, I'd really like to buy but I wouldn't like to be forced
to use the 170 mm.

I'd caution you that Campagnolo doesn't support their older groups very well, and 8-speed stuff is,
to a large extent, "orphaned."

There has also been a LOT of improvement in Campagnolo stuff since then. Current Chorus, even
Daytona stuff is WAY better than 96 Record. Even Veloce is arguably better.

Sheldon "Stick With The Odd Numbers" Brown +-----------------------------------------------+
| I saw a man pursuing the horizon; | Round and round they sped. | I was disturbed at this; |
| I accosted the man. |
| |
| "It is futile," I said, | "You can never--" |
| |
| "You lie," he cried, | And ran on. | --Stephen Crane |
+-----------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone
617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗ sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗

Sheldon Brown said:

I'd caution you that Campagnolo doesn't support their older groups very well, and 8-speed stuff
is, to a large extent, "orphaned." There has also been a LOT of improvement in Campagnolo stuff
since then. Current Chorus, even Daytona stuff is WAY better than 96 Record. Even Veloce is
arguably better.

Great, Luca. Any vultures in sight yet? I was just thinking of paying you a visit ...

Sergio Pisa

"Jim" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel messaggio
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

5mm... would it really make that much difference ?

<cut>

In my case (very short and muscular legs combined with weak knees and hips) yes. I solved 95% of
my bike-related problems when I switched from 170 to 165, 3 years ago, and my racing improved a
lot as well. I don't take part into crack length debates as I think it's a really subjective
matter, but when I talk about myself, I know that it made a big difference. Now, would you please
reply to my question?

Thanks Luca

<cut>

Quoted message said:

I'd caution you that Campagnolo doesn't support their older groups very well, and 8-speed stuff
is, to a large extent, "orphaned." There has also been a LOT of improvement in Campagnolo stuff
since then. Current Chorus, even Daytona stuff is WAY better than 96 Record. Even Veloce is
arguably better.

<cut>

Sheldon, thanks for your answer.

As far as this part -above- of your answer is concerned, I was thinking of buying 2 or 3 (4?) extra
chains directly from Campagnolo (the factory is less than 100 miles from my house) as these will be
hard to find in the future. The groups will be on a spare bike (steel Bianchi) that I don't plan to
use for heavy duty. Let's call it a little present I will give to myself.

The gruppo will cost me 300 Euro... now, what do you mean -above- by WAY better? please explain. I
don't see the 2001 Veloce that my wife has on her Pinarello *so much* better than 96 Record (I have
tried it), and for sure the second one has more "charme" (even if it's less compatible with the
current 9 and 10 speed gruppos, I admit it). Chains, for instance, used to last much longer in the
95, 96 and 97 Campy groups, isn't it?

Thanks in advance for your second answer Luca

"Sergio SERVADIO" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel messaggio
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sheldon Brown said:

I'd caution you that Campagnolo doesn't support their older groups very well, and 8-speed stuff
is, to a large extent, "orphaned." There has also been a LOT of improvement in Campagnolo stuff
since then. Current Chorus, even Daytona stuff is WAY better than 96 Record. Even Veloce is
arguably better.

Great, Luca. Any vultures in sight yet? I was just thinking of paying you a visit ...

Sergio Pisa

No vultures around here, and you're always welcome. Luca

I said:

Quoted message said:

I'd caution you that Campagnolo doesn't support their older groups very well, and 8-speed stuff
is, to a large extent, "orphaned." There has also been a LOT of improvement in Campagnolo stuff
since then. Current Chorus, even Daytona stuff is WAY better than 96 Record. Even Veloce is
arguably better.

Luca Magnoni said:

As far as this part -above- of your answer is concerned, I was thinking of buying 2 or 3 (4?)
extra chains directly from Campagnolo (the factory is less than 100 miles from my house) as these
will be hard to find in the future. The groups will be on a spare bike (steel Bianchi) that I
don't plan to use for heavy duty. Let's call it a little present I will give to myself.

Chains aren't a problem, any modern chain will work, but pickings are very slim for replacement
8-speed cassettes.

Quoted message said:

The gruppo will cost me 300 Euro... now, what do you mean -above- by WAY better? please explain. I
don't see the 2001 Veloce that my wife has on her Pinarello *so much* better than 96 Record (I
have tried it), and for sure the second one has more "charme" (even if it's less compatible with
the current 9 and 10 speed gruppos, I admit it). Chains, for instance, used to last much longer in
the 95, 96 and 97 Campy groups, isn't it?

I'm not aware of any important difference in chain longevity.

The newer rear hubs in particular are greatly improved over the older ones, which were prone to
bending axles.

Then there is that extra sprocket, which is a Good Thing.

I don't know what local prices are where you are, but Chorus is the hot ticket, best value
in the line.

Sheldon "Likes New And Old Campagnolo Stuff, But Not Middle-Aged" Brown
+------------------------------------+
| Experience is a hard teacher, | because she gives the test first, | the lesson after. --
| Vernon Law |
+------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772
FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗ sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗

Luca Magnoni said:

I need an advice on wether or not I should buy a Campy gruppo.

I have found a NOS Campagnolo Record 8 speed (year 96), brand new and w-o-n-d-e-r-f-u-l! But, it's
my usual problem, I use 165 mm crancks and there's nothing available that I could use to replace
the 170mm crancks the gruppo comes with.

So, I could put a 9-speed (year 99) Ultegra crancks on with a Shimano bb that I have here
(right length of course), but will it work, or will the 8-speed chain get stuck between the
chainrings etc?

It'll work fine.

Quoted message said:

As I get a very good deal on the gruppo, I'd really like to buy but I wouldn't like to be forced
to use the 170 mm.

Well, the difference between 165mm and 170mm cranks is not much.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored _`\(,_ | by little
statesmen and philosophers and divines." --Ralph Waldo (_)/ (_) | Emerson

Luca-<< I have found a NOS Campagnolo Record 8 speed (year 96), brand new and w-o-n-d-e-r-f-u-l!
But, it's my usual problem, I use 165 mm crancks and there's nothing available that I could use to
replace the 170mm cranks.

<< So, I could put a 9-speed (year 99) Ultegra crancks on with a Shimano bb that I have here (right
length of course), but will it work, or will the 8-speed chain get stuck between the chainrings etc?

It will work just fine. Remember that TA has really pretty cranks in 165mm as well...

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Capt Bike-<< I'd caution you that Campagnolo doesn't support their older groups very well, and
8-speed stuff is, to a large extent, "orphaned."

8s cogsets still being made by Campagnolo. Sram makes really great 8s chains. Inside of shifter uses
same springs as the 9/10s units. ANY rder will work with 8s ERGO, including 10s Record from 2003,
w/o modification.

While I agree that 8s stuff is not as available as 9/10s stuff...It is still possible to use and
find parts for Campagnolo 8s equipment.

<< There has also been a LOT of improvement in Campagnolo stuff since then. Current Chorus, even
Daytona stuff is WAY better than 96 Record. Even Veloce is arguably better.

I think the best stuff Campagnolo made was 1996(8s) and 1997(9s) Record gruppos.

Shifters are a wee bit softer now and lots 'o' cogs, but the crank and BBs are the same, brakes are
essentuially the same. Modern hubs are really nice but the older ones weren't bad(ti axles and all).

I don't see how 2003 Veloce is arguably better than 1996 Record...in what ways?

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Sheldon Brown said:

I'd caution you that Campagnolo doesn't support their older groups very well, and 8-speed stuff
is, to a large extent, "orphaned."

Good point. It may be why you're getting this at such a "good" deal. I gave up on 8-speed, since I
believe that parts will very soon become unobtainable.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or _`\(,_ | that we are to
stand by the president right or wrong, is not (_)/ (_) | only unpatriotic and servile, but is
morally treasonable to the American public. --Theodore Roosevelt

I said:

I'd caution you that Campagnolo doesn't support their older groups very well, and 8-speed stuff
is, to a large extent, "orphaned."

8s cogsets still being made by Campagnolo. Sram makes really great 8s chains. Inside of shifter
uses same springs as the 9/10s units. ANY rder will work with 8s ERGO, including 10s Record from
2003, w/o modification.

8-speed cassettes have gone through periods of being utterly unavailable, though at present it isn't
a problem.

Quoted message said:

While I agree that 8s stuff is not as available as 9/10s stuff...It is still possible to use and
find parts for Campagnolo 8s equipment.

Yes, it is possible now, but given Campagnolo's recent track record, I'd be nervous about
availability in a very few years.

Quoted message said:

<< There has also been a LOT of improvement in Campagnolo stuff since then. Current Chorus, even
Daytona stuff is WAY better than 96 Record. Even Veloce is arguably better.

I think the best stuff Campagnolo made was 1996(8s) and 1997(9s) Record gruppos.

Shifters are a wee bit softer now and lots 'o' cogs, but the crank and BBs are the same,

He was going to swap out the crank anyway, 'cause the gruppo he was looking at had the wrong arm
length. That fact greatly reduced the "bargain" factor of the older gruppo he was looking at.

Quoted message said:

brakes are essentuially the same. Modern hubs are really nice but the older ones weren't bad(ti
axles and all).

I don't see how 2003 Veloce is arguably better than 1996 Record...in what ways?

I must admit that I haven't yet dealt with any 2003 Veloce stuff...I was kinda hoping they'd gone to
the improved rear hub design, but perhaps that was overoptimistic of me. I've generally not been too
well impressed with Veloce, especially the cheesy Taiwanese front hubs.

I do consider the 9th sprocket a siginificant upgrade, though some folks wouldn't agree with
me on that.

Did '96 record have the ball-bearing shifters?

Sheldon "One Speed Or Nine" Brown
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a |
| thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that |
| cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be |
| impossible to get at or repair." - Douglas Adams, RIP - HHGTTG |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton,
Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find parts
shipped Worldwide captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗ sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel messaggio
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Luca-<< I have found a NOS Campagnolo Record 8 speed (year 96), brand new

and

Quoted message said:

w-o-n-d-e-r-f-u-l! But, it's my usual problem, I use 165 mm crancks and there's nothing available
that I could use to replace the 170mm cranks.

<< So, I could put a 9-speed (year 99) Ultegra crancks on with a Shimano

bb

Quoted message said:

that I have here (right length of course), but will it work, or will the 8-speed chain get stuck
between the chainrings etc?

It will work just fine. Remember that TA has really pretty cranks in 165mm

as

Quoted message said:

well...

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

I don't think that a 300 USD crank (+shipping, as nobody sells them here) are worth it... at least
on a 300 Euro gruppo... Ciao Luca

Luca Magnoni said:

As far as this part -above- of your answer is concerned, I was thinking of buying 2 or 3 (4?)
extra chains directly from Campagnolo (the factory is less than 100 miles from my house) as these
will be hard to find in the future.

Chains are not the problem. Sachs chains will be around for a long while. Cassettes! Buy cassettes!

Quoted message said:

The gruppo will cost me 300 Euro...

Not such a bargain, I don't think.

. Chains, for instance,

Quoted message said:

used to last much longer in the 95, 96 and 97 Campy groups, isn't it?

They used to last longer in the '70s, when chains were chains and men were men...

--

David L. Johnson

__o | When you are up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember _`\(,_ | that your initial
objective was to drain the swamp. -- LBJ (_)/ (_) |

Sheldon Brown said:

I wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

I do consider the 9th sprocket a siginificant upgrade, though some folks wouldn't agree with me
on that.

Did '96 record have the ball-bearing shifters?

Yes, So did 1995 Record. I would argue that 1995 was also a great year for Campagnolo, with the move
to the very nice low profile cranks- both Chorus and Record groups that year were nice upgrades over
1994 IMHO.

BTW, I agree with you on your assertion on 9 speed being better. I was a happy rider on 5 speeds,
then 6, then 7, and then 8 but I like the flexibility for cassettes at 9 speed. That said, I have no
need or desire to go to 10 speed unless Campy's availability forces me to.

Quoted message said:

Sheldon "One Speed Or Nine" Brown
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a |
| thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that |
| cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be |
| impossible to get at or repair." - Douglas Adams, RIP - HHGTTG |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton,
Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find parts
shipped Worldwide captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗ sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗

Sheldon Brown said:

+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a |
| thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that |
| cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be |
| impossible to get at or repair." - Douglas Adams, RIP - HHGTTG |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+

Fail-safe systems fail by failing to fail safe.

One of the axioms of systems in _Systemantics_ by John Gall; original edition 1975, enlarged and
going downhill successively ever since, sort of like anything you can name.
--
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