My spokes keep breaking!

BarSteward said:

Talk to anybody who knows me and they'll mention my spokes! I've gone through a real rough patch with wheels. I bought a pair of Mvaic M3s on Shimano 105 hubs (32 spoke) about 2 years ago (cheap offer, to good to be refused!). They fell apart on the first ride as the builder had not built them properly. After three more visits for broken spokes and finally, the little nut in the rim on the back wheel got pulled out of the rim! At this point, I decided to change shop. I ended up with a couple of 32 spokers on Mavic Open Pro rims. Guess what? the Spokes on left hand side (non cassette) start snapping after 20 or so miles. I may loose 2 or 3 in a 70 miler, usually in quick succession and then no more for the rest of the ride. After the third time, I'm planning something nasty to do with a wheel builder and a spoke spanner! I take advise from Brian Rouke, a UK bike builder who knows what he's doing. He suggests I'm too big (95Kg) for 32s and I should go to 36ers. He also tells be to get my frame checked for twisting. I did and it was (I had fallen off just before my wheel problems started and the frame was twisted by 15mm at the dropouts!). So here I am, New frame (Fort Rot Gard) and 36 spoke Mavic Open Pros. I've Done over 800 miles on this now with no problems until today! I've got a broken spoke on the left hand side (non cassette). Is it all going to start again?????

Does anybody else have this problem? I note the Sheldon Brown web site suggests Radial on the Left and 3 cross on the right for this problem. Anybody tried this? Did it work?
I know it's a wordy post, but hopefully, somebody with experience will take pity on my plight.

You weigh 95 kg and are breaking spokes on a 36 hole Mavic Open Pro?
Wow!

That's interesting that you are breaking spokes on the non-drive side because I'd think the opposite would happen. I'd expect drive side spokes to give out first becasue they are under higher tension.

This is a new frame you say?

BarSteward said:

Talk to anybody who knows me and they'll mention my spokes! I've gone through a real rough patch with wheels. I bought a pair of Mvaic M3s on Shimano 105 hubs (32 spoke) about 2 years ago (cheap offer, to good to be refused!). They fell apart on the first ride as the builder had not built them properly. After three more visits for broken spokes and finally, the little nut in the rim on the back wheel got pulled out of the rim! At this point, I decided to change shop. I ended up with a couple of 32 spokers on Mavic Open Pro rims. Guess what? the Spokes on left hand side (non cassette) start snapping after 20 or so miles. I may loose 2 or 3 in a 70 miler, usually in quick succession and then no more for the rest of the ride. After the third time, I'm planning something nasty to do with a wheel builder and a spoke spanner! I take advise from Brian Rouke, a UK bike builder who knows what he's doing. He suggests I'm too big (95Kg) for 32s and I should go to 36ers. He also tells be to get my frame checked for twisting. I did and it was (I had fallen off just before my wheel problems started and the frame was twisted by 15mm at the dropouts!). So here I am, New frame (Fort Rot Gard) and 36 spoke Mavic Open Pros. I've Done over 800 miles on this now with no problems until today! I've got a broken spoke on the left hand side (non cassette). Is it all going to start again?????

Does anybody else have this problem? I note the Sheldon Brown web site suggests Radial on the Left and 3 cross on the right for this problem. Anybody tried this? Did it work?
I know it's a wordy post, but hopefully, somebody with experience will take pity on my plight.

Are Velocity rims available in the UK?
Are Sapim Spokes available in the UK?
If the answer to both the above is yes, have a competent builder select Velocity Aerohead OC 36 hole rim, 18 Sapim Laser spokes correct length for 3 cross left, 18 Sapim Race spokes correct length for 3 cross right; and build with Sapim Polyax nipples. Make sure they are properly tensioned, spoke aligned, stress relieved, and bedded in at the hub end.
What kind of hub are you using?
MA-3 is not suitable for riders over 85 kg.
Open Pro is suitable, but not as durable as Velocity Aerohead OC in the rear wheel application. If you really want to put some extra durability in the rear go with Velocity Deep V, Velocity Dyad (only for 28 mm & wider tires), or Mavic A719 (only for 28 mm & wider tires).

Sheldon Brown's "radial on the left rear" concept has some merit when built with spoke heads out. However, many hub manufacturers don't warranty their hubs in radial applications. Radial left rear with spoke heads out decreases the spoke support angle on the left side and "help" maintain higher tension in left side spokes. The Velocity Aerohead OC rim helps decrease the left spoke support angle while increasing the right support angle. The end result is more even sharing right-to-left of the dynamic loads placed on the spokes.
I know it is obvious, but the more you weigh the more the quality of the wheel build comes into eveidence.

BarSteward said:

Talk to anybody who knows me and they'll mention my spokes! I've gone through a real rough patch with wheels. I bought a pair of Mvaic M3s on Shimano 105 hubs (32 spoke) about 2 years ago (cheap offer, to good to be refused!). They fell apart on the first ride as the builder had not built them properly. After three more visits for broken spokes and finally, the little nut in the rim on the back wheel got pulled out of the rim! At this point, I decided to change shop. I ended up with a couple of 32 spokers on Mavic Open Pro rims. Guess what? the Spokes on left hand side (non cassette) start snapping after 20 or so miles. I may loose 2 or 3 in a 70 miler, usually in quick succession and then no more for the rest of the ride. After the third time, I'm planning something nasty to do with a wheel builder and a spoke spanner! I take advise from Brian Rouke, a UK bike builder who knows what he's doing. He suggests I'm too big (95Kg) for 32s and I should go to 36ers. He also tells be to get my frame checked for twisting. I did and it was (I had fallen off just before my wheel problems started and the frame was twisted by 15mm at the dropouts!). So here I am, New frame (Fort Rot Gard) and 36 spoke Mavic Open Pros. I've Done over 800 miles on this now with no problems until today! I've got a broken spoke on the left hand side (non cassette). Is it all going to start again?????

Does anybody else have this problem? I note the Sheldon Brown web site suggests Radial on the Left and 3 cross on the right for this problem. Anybody tried this? Did it work?
I know it's a wordy post, but hopefully, somebody with experience will take pity on my plight.

Just blew a spoke this weekend 25 miles into a 40 mile ride - I am about your same wight (97 kg) and all I can say is that atour weight the strength of the wheel set is much more important than light weight etc. Get with a reputable shop and go with something more sturdy.

Open pros are fine rims, but they are light (420 grams). The spokes are breaking becasue they are being fatigued too much.

While build quality is essential, the others are correct in saying you should focus on a sturdier rim that won't put as much stress on the spokes.

Wow, I'm still suprised you are breaking spokes on a 36 hole rear though. I'd go for a stiffer rim. Aerohead OC may help too, but it is still a light rim.

[font=Times New Roman]I’m no expert, but… It sure sounds like the first shop you had your wheels built at had no clue how to properly build a wheel. I suspect that second shop did a better job…[/font]

[font=Times New Roman]How can I be so sure? Because I weigh 235lbs(106.6kg) and I ride on Mavic Ksyruim Equipe wheels, 20 radial laced spokes on the front and 24 2x laced spokes on the rear.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman]At about 800 miles (1300km) I started to notice a clicking noise. It took me almost 100 miles to finally figure out what the noise was. A few of my non-drive side spokes had become loose. They still had some tension, but they were loose compared to the other non-drive side spokes.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman]I’ve never built a wheel, but I’ve always kept my wheels true lateral and vertical. I added tension to the loose non-drive side spokes, so all the non-drive side spokes had about the same tension, and then I trued the wheel. I haven’t broken a spoke on the wheel yet, and it’s been almost 900 miles since I trued the wheel.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman]And for those of you who are wondering why I ride 20 and 24 spokes, the wheels came with my bike, and the LBS didn’t think my weight would be a problem for the wheels. So far (about 1800 miles) no problems, except when I trued the rear wheel.[/font]

Guys, thanks for your suggestions and comments. I'm inclined to let the shop have a look at the wheel first before making a decision. They agree that the Half radial is a possibility but they're worried that I'll end up with broken hubs rather than spokes. I let you'll know how it turns out.

BarSteward said:

Guys, thanks for your suggestions and comments. I'm inclined to let the shop have a look at the wheel first before making a decision. They agree that the Half radial is a possibility but they're worried that I'll end up with broken hubs rather than spokes. I let you'll know how it turns out.

After you get done with the shop adjustments, I'd go with Dave's advice above. Find a quality builder, spend some money to get wheels built right to the heavy-duty specs he's given you, and you'll likely never break another spoke.