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My poor, cold bike

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16 December 2004
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psycholist
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  1. I've recently moved to a small house on a big piece of land in the country.
    No room for all my bike gear in the house. I have a little 12x12
    out-building that I've dubbed "the bike barn." All my bikes and gear are
    there. It's where I ride the rollers, etc. The building is of frame and
    plywood construction with no insulation.

    It was 18 degrees last night. I took my favorite bike out at 10:00 this
    morning to go for a ride. The headset was frozen solid. There was no
    turning the front wheel. Another bike wasn't as bad, but the front
    derailleur on that bike wouldn't shift. Fortunately, I was able to wait an
    hour and I left my bike out in the sun. The headset loosened right up and I
    was good to go.

    The question is, does anyone know if there's any serious harm in allowing a
    bike to freeze and unfreeze like this on a regular basis. I'm in the South
    and there's not that much really cold weather, but this could happen 30
    times over the course of the winter. I've had the bikes out there for 2
    winters now and haven't really noticed any problems that a few minutes of
    sunshine or above-freezing temps won't cure.

    Thoughts? Warnings? Flames?

    --
    Bob C.

    "Of course it hurts. The trick is not minding that it hurts."
    T. E. Lawrence (of Arabia)

  2. "psycholist" wrote...

    Quoted message said:

    I've recently moved to a small house on a big piece of land in the


    country.

    Quoted message said:

    No room for all my bike gear in the house. I have a little 12x12
    out-building that I've dubbed "the bike barn." All my bikes and gear are
    there. It's where I ride the rollers, etc. The building is of frame and
    plywood construction with no insulation.

    It was 18 degrees last night. I took my favorite bike out at 10:00 this
    morning to go for a ride. The headset was frozen solid. There was no
    turning the front wheel. Another bike wasn't as bad, but the front
    derailleur on that bike wouldn't shift. Fortunately, I was able to wait


    an

    Quoted message said:

    hour and I left my bike out in the sun. The headset loosened right up and


    I

    Quoted message said:

    was good to go.

    The question is, does anyone know if there's any serious harm in allowing


    a

    Quoted message said:

    bike to freeze and unfreeze like this on a regular basis. I'm in the


    South

    Quoted message said:

    and there's not that much really cold weather, but this could happen 30
    times over the course of the winter. I've had the bikes out there for 2
    winters now and haven't really noticed any problems that a few minutes of
    sunshine or above-freezing temps won't cure.

    Thoughts? Warnings? Flames?

    --
    Bob C.


    Sounds like your bikes are in a very humid environment, as well as getting
    cold on a regular basis. If any of our bikes have steel frames I wold apply
    some kind of rustproofing treatment to the inside of the frame tubing. I
    would also make sure that the various moving parts are well lubed, so that
    the grease will prevent moisture from getting at any steel parts, like
    bearings and bearing races.

    I live in an area where 18 deg temps at night (and much colder) are common,
    but the humidity is low enough that I've never experienced what you
    describe. My bikes have spent the last few winters in unheated storage, and
    I've had no problems with rust.
    --
    mark

  3. Quoted message said:

    The question is, does anyone know if there's any serious harm in allowing a
    bike to freeze and unfreeze like this on a regular basis.

    condensation bad.

    cold + humidity = condensation. bad.
    "frozen solid" = there's water coming from somewhere. bad.

    pb

  4. I'm sorry to hear that you don't have room for your bikes in the house.

    You may find that if you use Phil Wood's 'tenacious' oil on your
    bearings, instead of grease, that you wouldn't have this problem.
    In the summer, you could go back to 'grease'.

    Lewis.

    ***************

  5. I'm sorry to hear that you don't have room for your bikes in the house.

    You may find that if you use Phil Wood's 'tenacious' oil on your
    bearings, instead of grease, that you wouldn't have this problem.
    In the summer, you could go back to 'grease'.

    Lewis.

    ***************

  6. psycholist said:

    I've recently moved to a small house on a big piece of land in the country.
    No room for all my bike gear in the house. I have a little 12x12
    out-building that I've dubbed "the bike barn." All my bikes and gear are
    there. It's where I ride the rollers, etc. The building is of frame and
    plywood construction with no insulation.

    It was 18 degrees last night. I took my favorite bike out at 10:00 this
    morning to go for a ride. The headset was frozen solid. There was no
    turning the front wheel. Another bike wasn't as bad, but the front
    derailleur on that bike wouldn't shift. Fortunately, I was able to wait an
    hour and I left my bike out in the sun. The headset loosened right up and I
    was good to go.

    The question is, does anyone know if there's any serious harm in allowing a
    bike to freeze and unfreeze like this on a regular basis. I'm in the South
    and there's not that much really cold weather, but this could happen 30
    times over the course of the winter. I've had the bikes out there for 2
    winters now and haven't really noticed any problems that a few minutes of
    sunshine or above-freezing temps won't cure.

    Thoughts? Warnings? Flames?


    I think you should lubricate it occasionally!

  7. On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 22:37:14 -0500, "psycholist" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Thoughts? Warnings? Flames?

    The conditions described are ripe with possibilities for moisture to
    condense in unwanted places. I think I'd be tempted to go through the
    most cherished hardware and repack all bearings using a synthetic
    grease that won't congeal at low temps, but even more, I'd look at
    getting a little insulation in the walls and roof of the barn.
    --
    Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
    Some gardening required to reply via email.
    Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

  8. "psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    It was 18 degrees last night. I took my favorite bike out at 10:00 this
    morning to go for a ride. The headset was frozen solid. There was no
    turning the front wheel. Another bike wasn't as bad, but the front
    derailleur on that bike wouldn't shift. Fortunately, I was able to wait


    an

    Quoted message said:

    hour and I left my bike out in the sun. The headset loosened right up


    and I

    Quoted message said:

    was good to go.

    I'm guessing you've got some water in your headset, and perhaps in the
    cable housing of that other bike. Our bikes live in an unheated garage and
    are ridden in temps below 0F without headsets seizing.

  9. Werehatrack said:

    On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 22:37:14 -0500, "psycholist" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Thoughts? Warnings? Flames?

    The conditions described are ripe with possibilities for moisture to
    condense in unwanted places. I think I'd be tempted to go through the
    most cherished hardware and repack all bearings using a synthetic
    grease that won't congeal at low temps, but even more, I'd look at
    getting a little insulation in the walls and roof of the barn.


    insulation will only help if its heated, otherwise it simply serves to
    draw out the temp change curve.

  10. psycholist said:

    The question is, does anyone know if there's any serious harm in allowing a
    bike to freeze and unfreeze like this on a regular basis. I'm in the South

    Well, as long it is the grease hardening/thickening, and not a downtube
    full of water, I don't see a problem.

    Tons of us winter bicycles commuters subject our bikes to daily
    freeze thaw cycles. (park bike in warm house, ride to work, bike
    sits in cold all day. poor bike. ride home). No evident damage over
    many years of winter commuting.

    justen

  11. "psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I've recently moved to a small house on a big piece of land in the
    country. No room for all my bike gear in the house. I have a little 12x12
    out-building that I've dubbed "the bike barn." All my bikes and gear are
    there. It's where I ride the rollers, etc. The building is of frame and
    plywood construction with no insulation.

    It was 18 degrees last night. I took my favorite bike out at 10:00 this
    morning to go for a ride. The headset was frozen solid. There was no
    turning the front wheel. Another bike wasn't as bad, but the front
    derailleur on that bike wouldn't shift. Fortunately, I was able to wait
    an hour and I left my bike out in the sun. The headset loosened right up
    and I was good to go.

    The question is, does anyone know if there's any serious harm in allowing
    a bike to freeze and unfreeze like this on a regular basis. I'm in the
    South and there's not that much really cold weather, but this could happen
    30 times over the course of the winter. I've had the bikes out there for
    2 winters now and haven't really noticed any problems that a few minutes
    of sunshine or above-freezing temps won't cure.

    Thoughts? Warnings? Flames?

    Quoted message said:

    --
    Bob C.

    Quoted message said:


    "Of course it hurts. The trick is not minding that it hurts."
    T. E. Lawrence (of Arabia)

    Go to a yard sale and pick up and electric blanket. Put it on a timer and
    set it for about 2 hours before you go riding. when you get your bike out,
    it will be unthawed and the seat will be toasty warm for your tush.

    Jason

    Quoted message said:
  12. Fleaman said:

    "psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I've recently moved to a small house on a big piece of land in the
    country. No room for all my bike gear in the house. I have a little
    12x12 out-building that I've dubbed "the bike barn." All my bikes
    and gear are there. It's where I ride the rollers, etc. The
    building is of frame and plywood construction with no insulation.

    It was 18 degrees last night. I took my favorite bike out at 10:00
    this morning to go for a ride. The headset was frozen solid. There
    was no turning the front wheel. Another bike wasn't as bad, but the
    front derailleur on that bike wouldn't shift. Fortunately, I was
    able to wait an hour and I left my bike out in the sun. The headset
    loosened right up and I was good to go.

    The question is, does anyone know if there's any serious harm in
    allowing a bike to freeze and unfreeze like this on a regular basis.
    I'm in the South and there's not that much really cold weather, but
    this could happen 30 times over the course of the winter. I've had
    the bikes out there for 2 winters now and haven't really noticed any
    problems that a few minutes of sunshine or above-freezing temps
    won't cure.

    Thoughts? Warnings? Flames?

    Go to a yard sale and pick up and electric blanket. Put it on a
    timer and set it for about 2 hours before you go riding. when you
    get your bike out, it will be unthawed and the seat will be toasty
    warm for your tush.

    Jason

    Oooh . . . dunno' about this one. Make sure you have an adequate and
    working circuit breaker on that sucker first. I smell moisture.

    Also, since (or if) moisture is the culprit, then the concept of freeze-thaw
    is what's getting to you, so--while /keeping/ it warm makes sense, allowing
    moisture to freeze, then thawing it faster just hastens the cycle. That's
    good for rust.

    I like the advice of those who've said take it apart, clean it out well, and
    repack it using low temp grease (www.icebike.com has good info on this
    entire subject). The idea is to displace the moisture (which WD-40 excels
    at, btw).

    Neil
    (from San Diego, so feel free to disregard my input!)

  13. Peter Cole said:

    "psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    It was 18 degrees last night. I took my favorite bike out at 10:00
    this morning to go for a ride. The headset was frozen solid. There
    was no turning the front wheel. Another bike wasn't as bad, but the
    front derailleur on that bike wouldn't shift. Fortunately, I was
    able to wait an hour and I left my bike out in the sun. The headset
    loosened right up and I was good to go.

    I'm guessing you've got some water in your headset, and perhaps in the
    cable housing of that other bike. Our bikes live in an unheated
    garage and are ridden in temps below 0F without headsets seizing.

    Yup, that's what it sounds like. Try repacking your bearings, stuffing in as
    much grease as you can -- so there's no room for water to collect. Your headset
    probably collects sweat while riding on the rollers.

    Matt O.

  14. Neil Brooks said:

    Also, since (or if) moisture is the culprit, then the concept of
    freeze-thaw is what's getting to you, so--while /keeping/ it warm
    makes sense, allowing moisture to freeze, then thawing it faster just
    hastens the cycle. That's good for rust.

    For this reason, some people prefer to leave their bikes outside. They figure
    it's better to be caked with (salty) ice than continually subjected to corrosive
    meltwater torture.

    Quoted message said:

    I like the advice of those who've said take it apart, clean it out
    well, and repack it using low temp grease (www.icebike.com has good
    info on this entire subject). The idea is to displace the moisture

    Yes, with grease. Eventually the grease will wash away, leaving a cavity for
    water to collect again. But a good "waterproof" grease lasts a pretty long
    time.

    Quoted message said:

    (which WD-40 excels at, btw).

    Does not, cannot. It's all about specific gravity. Try this test -- squirt
    some WD40 on a metal part, and drop it in a bucket of water. Betcha the WD40
    is left floating on the surface of the water. Now pour off the water. Betcha
    the metal has no WD40 left on it.

    Just because it says it displaces water, or leads you to believe it because of
    the "WD" in the name, doesn't mean it actually does. BTW, I don't think it
    actually makes that claim. In any case, it's snake oil of the greate$t kind.
    It's an OK penetrating oil and cleaning solvent, and smells better than some
    others.

    Matt O.

  15. In article <[email hidden]>, psycholist

    Quoted message said:

    I've recently moved to a small house on a big piece of land in the country.
    No room for all my bike gear in the house. I have a little 12x12
    out-building that I've dubbed "the bike barn." All my bikes and gear are
    there. It's where I ride the rollers, etc. The building is of frame and
    plywood construction with no insulation.

    <snip>

    The problem has more to do with water/condensation penetration than sub
    zero temperatures. I'd disassemble the concerned parts and lubricate.
    My bikes have forged through (Canadian) winters for years and have
    never suffered a frozen headset.

    luke

  16. On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 22:53:24 -0500, "Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    Just because it says it displaces water, or leads you to believe it because of
    the "WD" in the name, doesn't mean it actually does. BTW, I don't think it
    actually makes that claim. In any case, it's snake oil of the greate$t kind.
    It's an OK penetrating oil and cleaning solvent, and smells better than some
    others.

    Matt O.


    Apparently you have never used WD-4- to start a wet engine. In that
    application, it does displace moisture and works as advertised.

    It certainly does have its limitations and people often misuse it, but
    I don't believe it is snake oil. Spraying it into a headset, might
    loosen it up, temporarily, but is certainly not the right product for
    the job.

    Life is Good!
    Jeff

  17. Jeff Starr said:

    On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 22:53:24 -0500, "Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    Just because it says it displaces water, or leads you to believe it because of
    the "WD" in the name, doesn't mean it actually does. BTW, I don't think it
    actually makes that claim. In any case, it's snake oil of the greate$t kind.
    It's an OK penetrating oil and cleaning solvent, and smells better than some
    others.

    Matt O.


    Apparently you have never used WD-4- to start a wet engine. In that
    application, it does displace moisture and works as advertised.

    It certainly does have its limitations and people often misuse it, but
    I don't believe it is snake oil. Spraying it into a headset, might
    loosen it up, temporarily, but is certainly not the right product for
    the job.

    Life is Good!
    Jeff

    Dear Jeff,

    I've been wondering about WD-40 and water lately, since
    there have been other "it's-snake-oil" comments.

    Just to clarify things, did you mean spraying WD-40 on wet
    ignition parts, like old-fashioned breaker points?

    I'm curious if anyone knows what the actual claim is--does
    WD-40 (supposedly) work by chemically working its way in
    between metal and water, by combining and carrying the water
    away when it evaporates, or just by mechanically scouring
    the moisture off the metal when blasted at the parts?

    Carl Fogel

  18. psycholist said:

    I've recently moved to a small house on a big piece of land in the country.
    No room for all my bike gear in the house. I have a little 12x12
    out-building that I've dubbed "the bike barn." All my bikes and gear are
    there. It's where I ride the rollers, etc. The building is of frame and
    plywood construction with no insulation.

    It was 18 degrees last night. I took my favorite bike out at 10:00 this
    morning to go for a ride. The headset was frozen solid. There was no
    turning the front wheel. Another bike wasn't as bad, but the front
    derailleur on that bike wouldn't shift. Fortunately, I was able to wait an
    hour and I left my bike out in the sun. The headset loosened right up and I
    was good to go.

    The question is, does anyone know if there's any serious harm in allowing a
    bike to freeze and unfreeze like this on a regular basis. I'm in the South
    and there's not that much really cold weather, but this could happen 30
    times over the course of the winter. I've had the bikes out there for 2
    winters now and haven't really noticed any problems that a few minutes of
    sunshine or above-freezing temps won't cure.

    Thoughts? Warnings? Flames?


    Cold doesn't hurt per se but cables and bearings which are
    filled with dirt hold water and that is a problem as you found.

    Clean out your headset and redo it with fresh grease. It
    will be fine.

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    www.yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

  19. jim c said:
    Werehatrack said:

    The conditions described are ripe with possibilities for moisture to
    condense in unwanted places. I think I'd be tempted to go through the
    most cherished hardware and repack all bearings using a synthetic
    grease that won't congeal at low temps, but even more, I'd look at
    getting a little insulation in the walls and roof of the barn.

    insulation will only help if its heated, otherwise it simply serves to
    draw out the temp change curve.

    If the ground temp is substantially above the air temp, which is the
    case in many locales, then with adequate insulation, the interior temp
    will still tend to remain above what it would have been, assuming (as
    is likely) that the shed rests on grade on a slab. This won't make it
    *warm*, but a difference of 5C can reduce condensation quite a bit.
    --
    Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
    Some gardening required to reply via email.
    Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

  20. Quoted message said:

    I'm curious if anyone knows what the actual claim is--does
    WD-40 (supposedly) work by chemically working its way in
    between metal and water, by combining and carrying the water
    away when it evaporates, or just by mechanically scouring
    the moisture off the metal when blasted at the parts?

    The claim made on the admittedly old can of WD40 in front of me is:

    WD 40 DISPLACES MOISTURE
    Drives moisture off metal surfaces.
    -Distributors -Relays -Switches
    -Wet engines -Spark plugs

    I can attest to the fact that an engine which has been drowned
    sufficiently due to driving through deep puddles will often have
    moisture beaded throughout the inside of the distributor cap. In that
    situation, the spark from the coil will simply discharge across the
    moisture film to the distributor housing, rather than jumping the two
    air gaps in the normal discharge path. Merely wiping the cap out with
    a dry cloth *sometimes* will allow the engine to be restarted, but
    often this is not sufficient. Spraying the inside of the distributor
    cap with WD40 will usually cause the moisture to bead up and flow off
    the surface; apparently at least some of the fractions in WD40 have a
    higher affinity for the plastic and metal surfaces than water does,
    and can "get under" the moisture to some extent. It may also be that
    WD40 may increase the dielectric constant between the various isolated
    moisture beads and patches, interrupting the alternate path to ground
    that the moisture was providing; they make no claim about that, but it
    seems likely that it would have this effect.

    On the other hand, despite the claims made on the can, in my
    experience WD40 evaporates too fast to provide any kind of long-term
    (or even medium-term) moisture exclusion and/or rust prevention
    factor. I've seen acquaintances use it to get wet engines started
    many times, and have used it that way myself as well. If the
    distributor cap is removed from the hot engine again a few hours
    later, there's nary a trace of the product to be found. When I lived
    in sodden South Florida, it was considered simple prudence to carry a
    can of WD40 under the driver's seat of one's car. While the puddles
    there were seldom deep enough to cause water to come in when the door
    was opened, the frequency of torrential rains was such that it was not
    so much a matter of whether a vehicle was going to have moisture
    intrusion problems in the ignition system as when...and how often.
    Unsurprisingly, such an under-seat WD40 can itself was almost always
    rusty, despite having had more than a little of its own contents end
    up on the can when in use.

    As noted in other posts, I am not a fan of WD40 for the majority of
    its claimed uses. I have found that it will "stop squeaks" only
    briefly, I have noticed that it is rather poor at preventing corrosion
    on metal surfaces, and I have been unimpressed by its properties as a
    penetrant for loosening rusted fasteners. On the other hand, as a
    solvent to get certain waxy or tarry deposits off of a surface, and as
    an aid in either displacing or isolating water from an ignition
    system, I've found it just useful enough to warrant keeping a can of
    it around. The one in front of me was bought in 1979, if I am not
    mistaken. I don't use it very much...and there are places where I've
    learned that it's worse than nothing at all, such as on the threads of
    a puller.
    --
    Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
    Some gardening required to reply via email.
    Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

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