My First Road Race .. Questions

Don't feel too bad - most people get handed their rear and dropped in their first race - if not their first few. Just being fast doesn't necessarily help. You have to be able to deal with the surges and be comfortable enough with the pack to move around in it.
OK to your questions.
1. Its better to start near, but not necessarily on the front. Don't let anyone convince you that you don't belong there. Don't however get out to the very front and pull the pack around. If you know you are slow on hills really try to be at the front starting a hill so that when you go backwards you still maintain contact instead of going straight off the back.
2. It totally depends on the race. If this was a crit - and it sounds like it may have been, YES! crits nearly always start off very fast. If you can stay in for the first 10 minutes you have a good chance of being able to stay in for the whole thing, since often they will slow a bit. Oh and btw - that first 10 min will usually hurt - a lot..., burning legs, burning lungs. Just try to hang in there. Longer road races will often start out slower - but hey! did you warm up? It is vitally important in a crit since they start so fast to get in a good warm up or your body just won't be ready to put out that kind of power. If you did not warm up it is definitely not a surprise that you went off the back. You need to include a few hard efforts that get your legs burning and your heart rate up. Unless it is very long I generally warm up for a road race too - then if someone does attack early my body is prepared to chase.
3. If the Cervelo is harder to ride it sounds like you might have a fit issue? If the gearing is the same as your other bike and the weight similar then there is little other reason that you should feel that one bike is harder/easier to ride. Go get the Cervelo professionally fit - it may make a big difference or you may find that it just does not fit you.
4. Can't help you here. I've never tried anything like that.
5. Not so much a question as a statement.... Yeah, you need to be more comfortable cornering and descending in the pack and the only way you'll get that is to get out there and do it.

don't be too fast to give it up, many people take a year or more to even finish with the pack, but think of it this way - how many people are even out doing it? Even if you aren't winning you are still doing something that most people wouldn't even dream of.

I started road racing earlier this year. Before starting I read on this and other forums many horror stories about being dropped and having to complete the rest of the race on their own. The common consensus was to keep trying and usually they would manage to hang on to the pack a few attempts. I was lucky. At 40, I'm racing in a veterans comp, and the grades here go down to G. I started in F grade, with the goal of not being dropped. I found the pace was high, but sitting in the pack I found it bearable. The two other things that made it easy, not much wind, and flat track.
Here’s my two cents.
- Persist. Having raced, even once, you now understand what it looks like, how it feels, smells, etc… Just knowing what you’re in for should reduce pre race nerves, which I think play a bigger role than you may think (in my opinion).
- Sitting on the back of a pack is a good place to hide, but as a pack surges and slows, it is magnified at the back, which uses more energy. Move forward in the pack to reduce this effect.
- If you’re a poor hill climber, make sure you’re near the front of the pack at the start of a hill. That way even if you’re being passed up the hill, hopefully you won’t be dropped before you get to the top.
- Try to anticipate acceleration of the pack. Eg. Out of corners, over the top of hills, etc. Look forward a few bikes to see if they’re accelerating further up. The key is to minimize the gap to the rider in front of you that you then have to work hard to bridge.
- Persist. Did I mention that already?

jsirabella said:

1) Is it better at the start line to start in the middle of the pack?

2) Is it normal for the first lap to go so fast? Is there not a working up to speed, take advantage of the pack and than give it all at the end?

3) I could not make up the gears but at their cadence they could not be in such high gears?? Should I get compact gears??

4) Do any of you do supplements before a race? I always use NOExplode or Fast Twitch before the weights and find it really helps on the bike...does it actually hurt?

5) In some ways I did not mich loosing the pack as I started to do over 30 mphs on the decents...it was making me a little shakey.
-john s

Prospect Park, for those who haven't raced there, is something like a 3-mile loop with one moderate climb, basically a "big ring" circuit race. Because it attracts big fields, the races start and stay fast, in my experience much less surging than what I would call more typical races, just a very fast pack and a final sprint. The easiest place to ride is in the middle of the pack, enjoying the draft. The front is working harder, and the riders at the back are getting tailed off. Of course this is "easy advice" from a computer keyboard, you need to be both comfortable surrounded by riders in a pack (your comments about the 30mph "descent" imply that you're not completely comfortable yet - experience helps) and can generate enough power to stay there (you question about gearing). Two things struck me about your post: 50-100 miles/week is pretty (very?) low for even beginning racers, and you are equating weight time in the gym with cycling training. I suspect even cat5s are putting in closer to 10 hours/week on the bike. Also, weight training does not translate well into cycling, the usual approach is to build power on the bike doing larger-than-normal gear intervals as a sort of "weight lifting in the saddle." Plus, you're probably carrying a lot of extra upper-body muscle which is not going to help your riding. Lastly your comments about cadence and lower gearing in the pack suggests that you need to work on cadence, the "standard advice" being comfortable in a range of 80-100rpm. So, in sum, my thoughts: ride more hours, lift less, watch your cadence, and ride with others as much as you can to gain confidence in a pack. None of this is meant to be critical - you seem to have a great attitude, you will benefit from focusing your efforts more.

First thank you for the response.

The next time I race I need to get more in the middle of the bunch as opposed to the very back. I find in the back it is the toughest to hold on. Staying in a pack and descents is also another thing I really want to get better at.

This will build confidence and the only way I will get the confidence is through more racing and team rides. I just need to understand that it will take time but the longer it takes the sweeter the reward will be in the end!

The cervelo while being so light, I feel sometimes I can not really beat on it like the poprad. The cervelo feels like a delicate instrument. Also the gears are much harder to spin in the higher gears than the poprad. My poprad largest chainring is a 51 while vervelo is 52 but my poprad middle is bigger than my cervelo low one. So I can spin better on the poprad...maybe I need to go compact gears....

The one thing I really do not know and puzzles me is what gear and cadence to start in. When we were lined up I was looking at everyone's gears trying to see where are they starting. I see them spinning but they are just pulling away and as I kept spinning I would catch up but they were in not as high a gear. I need to better figure out what gear I am most comfortable in at the beginning of a race so I can move into a bigger easier later but not loose the pack. When I just try to keep up with the pack...I panic and not sure where to switch.

In the end...I am too dumb and stubborn to quit, I will just keep doing it until that day I am with the pack. To be honest what made me most happy anyway was when I came home and my daughter was waiting for me saying she was proud of me to do the race.

thanks again

Eden said:

Don't feel too bad - most people get handed their rear and dropped in their first race - if not their first few. Just being fast doesn't necessarily help. You have to be able to deal with the surges and be comfortable enough with the pack to move around in it.
OK to your questions.
1. Its better to start near, but not necessarily on the front. Don't let anyone convince you that you don't belong there. Don't however get out to the very front and pull the pack around. If you know you are slow on hills really try to be at the front starting a hill so that when you go backwards you still maintain contact instead of going straight off the back.
2. It totally depends on the race. If this was a crit - and it sounds like it may have been, YES! crits nearly always start off very fast. If you can stay in for the first 10 minutes you have a good chance of being able to stay in for the whole thing, since often they will slow a bit. Oh and btw - that first 10 min will usually hurt - a lot..., burning legs, burning lungs. Just try to hang in there. Longer road races will often start out slower - but hey! did you warm up? It is vitally important in a crit since they start so fast to get in a good warm up or your body just won't be ready to put out that kind of power. If you did not warm up it is definitely not a surprise that you went off the back. You need to include a few hard efforts that get your legs burning and your heart rate up. Unless it is very long I generally warm up for a road race too - then if someone does attack early my body is prepared to chase.
3. If the Cervelo is harder to ride it sounds like you might have a fit issue? If the gearing is the same as your other bike and the weight similar then there is little other reason that you should feel that one bike is harder/easier to ride. Go get the Cervelo professionally fit - it may make a big difference or you may find that it just does not fit you.
4. Can't help you here. I've never tried anything like that.
5. Not so much a question as a statement.... Yeah, you need to be more comfortable cornering and descending in the pack and the only way you'll get that is to get out there and do it.

don't be too fast to give it up, many people take a year or more to even finish with the pack, but think of it this way - how many people are even out doing it? Even if you aren't winning you are still doing something that most people wouldn't even dream of.

Thank you for your response.

I do feel I was nervous for this first race but while I can say nerves had something to do with it that was not the real issue.

It is really getting the race experience combined with more time in the saddle. I do feel now that I have raced once, I will not make some of the mistakes again as far as positioning and such but the key is putting in the time but not just anytime. The right kind of training...

I do get every month a new schedule on what I should be riding on a weekly basis from my coach. I have not done the weekends as much as I should. That is going to change soon. I really need to put those three hour rides in every Saturday and Sunday. I have been keeping up with the week nights but not weekends.

This race has given me focus...ofcourse there is a little thing called work and family but I will not give up and I will get more focused. I have already started to change up my schedule for it...

-john s

peterlip said:

I started road racing earlier this year. Before starting I read on this and other forums many horror stories about being dropped and having to complete the rest of the race on their own. The common consensus was to keep trying and usually they would manage to hang on to the pack a few attempts. I was lucky. At 40, I'm racing in a veterans comp, and the grades here go down to G. I started in F grade, with the goal of not being dropped. I found the pace was high, but sitting in the pack I found it bearable. The two other things that made it easy, not much wind, and flat track.
Here’s my two cents.
- Persist. Having raced, even once, you now understand what it looks like, how it feels, smells, etc… Just knowing what you’re in for should reduce pre race nerves, which I think play a bigger role than you may think (in my opinion).
- Sitting on the back of a pack is a good place to hide, but as a pack surges and slows, it is magnified at the back, which uses more energy. Move forward in the pack to reduce this effect.
- If you’re a poor hill climber, make sure you’re near the front of the pack at the start of a hill. That way even if you’re being passed up the hill, hopefully you won’t be dropped before you get to the top.
- Try to anticipate acceleration of the pack. Eg. Out of corners, over the top of hills, etc. Look forward a few bikes to see if they’re accelerating further up. The key is to minimize the gap to the rider in front of you that you then have to work hard to bridge.
- Persist. Did I mention that already?

Thank you for the response and none is taken critical...I can use all the help.

After that race I really realized it will take a year with real focus to get comfortable with the pack and descents. Also I get a weekly workout sheet from my coach of what I need to work on for that week. I really have not been putting the time into the weekends that he suggests. That is going to change.

I should not get discouraged by the race because while I did not do well, I learned so many other things. Also should I drop out of the race if I fall to far behind from the pack? Is there a certain ettiquette to it?

I am going to change up my workout schedule to accomodate more time in the saddle which will probably lead into less time in the weight room. Also I find spinning on spinners or machines to be nothing like being in the saddle...

I need to get focused and take it more seriously, this will only happen with time so patience is needed but all that much more sweeter in the end. According to my schedule I should be putting in about 200 miles a week. That really needs to be my new goal......zoltan gave me the way, I just need to dedicate the time to it.

The comfort will come with the time in the saddle...

-

palewin said:

Prospect Park, for those who haven't raced there, is something like a 3-mile loop with one moderate climb, basically a "big ring" circuit race. Because it attracts big fields, the races start and stay fast, in my experience much less surging than what I would call more typical races, just a very fast pack and a final sprint. The easiest place to ride is in the middle of the pack, enjoying the draft. The front is working harder, and the riders at the back are getting tailed off. Of course this is "easy advice" from a computer keyboard, you need to be both comfortable surrounded by riders in a pack (your comments about the 30mph "descent" imply that you're not completely comfortable yet - experience helps) and can generate enough power to stay there (you question about gearing). Two things struck me about your post: 50-100 miles/week is pretty (very?) low for even beginning racers, and you are equating weight time in the gym with cycling training. I suspect even cat5s are putting in closer to 10 hours/week on the bike. Also, weight training does not translate well into cycling, the usual approach is to build power on the bike doing larger-than-normal gear intervals as a sort of "weight lifting in the saddle." Plus, you're probably carrying a lot of extra upper-body muscle which is not going to help your riding. Lastly your comments about cadence and lower gearing in the pack suggests that you need to work on cadence, the "standard advice" being comfortable in a range of 80-100rpm. So, in sum, my thoughts: ride more hours, lift less, watch your cadence, and ride with others as much as you can to gain confidence in a pack. None of this is meant to be critical - you seem to have a great attitude, you will benefit from focusing your efforts more.

jsirabella said:

Also should I drop out of the race if I fall to far behind from the pack? Is there a certain ettiquette to it?

I recommend you tell your coach that you are slacking the weekend rides, which are often the most important ones a coach will give you. If you're at 100mi/wk, jumping to 200 will kill you and make you not want to ride again.

As for your questions: You paid for the race, stay in it. If you get dropped, it's a training ride. The only time you should pull out is if an official tells you to, as there is usually good reason by that time. Just stay to the right/out of the way of riders who will be passing you.

Practicing a start shouldn't be a science. As long as you can click in quickly, you can change gears fast enough to keep with the pace. If you really need to, take 20min to do a bunch of starts in different gears. Usually I'm in the small chainring, middle of the cog. Stand up on the start, clip in, and adjust gearing as the group accelerates, as it will accelerate different each time.

I believe he did say the weekend rides are the most important. I need to get into the saddle but not hate it. I will try out different starting gears and see what works. The most important is to stay with the pack and get more agressive to position myself better.

I am finding that on my race bike the big chainring seems to be too big to really spin atleast 80 or higher when switching into higher gears. Should I go compact? My knees also feel beat up.

-john s

iliveonnitro said:

I recommend you tell your coach that you are slacking the weekend rides, which are often the most important ones a coach will give you. If you're at 100mi/wk, jumping to 200 will kill you and make you not want to ride again.

As for your questions: You paid for the race, stay in it. If you get dropped, it's a training ride. The only time you should pull out is if an official tells you to, as there is usually good reason by that time. Just stay to the right/out of the way of riders who will be passing you.

Practicing a start shouldn't be a science. As long as you can click in quickly, you can change gears fast enough to keep with the pace. If you really need to, take 20min to do a bunch of starts in different gears. Usually I'm in the small chainring, middle of the cog. Stand up on the start, clip in, and adjust gearing as the group accelerates, as it will accelerate different each time.

jsirabella said:

I believe he did say the weekend rides are the most important. I need to get into the saddle but not hate it. I will try out different starting gears and see what works. The most important is to stay with the pack and get more agressive to position myself better.

I am finding that on my race bike the big chainring seems to be too big to really spin atleast 80 or higher when switching into higher gears. Should I go compact? My knees also feel beat up.

-john s

The big gears are for the downhill sections, so only you can decide if you can forgo those gears. In my area, I run a 50/12 and am fine, but in some more hilly areas I would want the 53. The difference between a 50 and 52 is about ...1 tooth on the rear? You might be better off replacing the rear cassette.

iliveonnitro said:

The big gears are for the downhill sections, so only you can decide if you can forgo those gears. In my area, I run a 50/12 and am fine, but in some more hilly areas I would want the 53. The difference between a 50 and 52 is about ...1 tooth on the rear? You might be better off replacing the rear cassette.

It's about half one tooth in the rear. 50x11 is bigger than 53x12

Sounds like you need to get some confidence in large bunch riding. It certainly can be intimidating and knowing where to position yourself is a key factor.

If you arent already doing it hunt down a decent sized training ride with a large bunch and make it part of your schedule. I was riding with big bunch rides 3-4 times a week and found that having this experience meant it was one less issue to worry about on race day.

I have just taken up vets racing. Started in E - thrashed them by miles so graduated to D this week where there are around 10 riders who are podium contenders - incl me.

Its important to be honest and put yourself in a grade where you can compete - its no fun otherwise.

Tactics wise - if you are not strong on hills - get in the front 10 wheels and try to stay there - then on the hill you can drift back a bit through the pack without getting spat out the back.

I like to stay in the front 15 or so to keep an eye on things and ensure no breaks get away. Risk is you end up working on the front more than you should but so be it.
Lastly build yourself a training program that is aimed at the events you are interested in.