Muscle tightness - advice?

Dans le message de news:[email hidden],
Simon Brooke <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

I'm a cyclist of limited performance. I have bad circulation problems
in my left leg, which means I can't pump much blood round it anyway;
and I'm on warfarin to prevent clotting, so the blood I can pump
doesn't carry as much oxygen as normal. So if I'm going to improve my
time trial performance I essentially need to improve my aerodynamics
(and get weight off, but that's a different problem).

If the warfarin is for arteriosclerosis, you could possibly benefit from
electrostimulation to increase capillarisation [Eng spelling?]. This is
even more true, if you have a lack of sensitivity (numbness) for a period
after recovery.

Just a WAG.
--
Bonne route !

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

Simon Brooke said:

So I'm assuming it's a stretching problem. Am I right, and if so, can
anyone suggest exercises which will help? Also, should I keep going when
it starts to really hurt in full tuck, or could I be doing damage?

I find a good yoga class is an excellent way to improve flexibility. It will basically stretch everything, so no need to worry about targeting a specific muscle or ligament 🙂. You might want to start with a class aimed at beginners, which should be gentler than more aggressive classes for more experienced practitioners.

Dan

Simon Brooke said:

I'm a cyclist of limited performance. I have bad circulation problems in my
left leg, which means I can't pump much blood round it anyway; and I'm on
warfarin to prevent clotting, so the blood I can pump doesn't carry as
much oxygen as normal. So if I'm going to improve my time trial
performance I essentially need to improve my aerodynamics (and get weight
off, but that's a different problem).

Let's be clear about this: we're not talking great performance. I want to
break 30 minutes for a ten. I know everyone else can do that while eating
their sandwiches, but my lifetime personal best is 30:06[1].

I've been out this morning working on my tuck. I find that in full tuck I
can manage 40Km/h on the flat at 90rpm, without any feeling of strain -
which is great, far more than I need. But I can't hold full tuck for long,
and as soon as I sit up the speed at what feels like the same level of
power output drops to 25Km/h. What's happening is that the muscles along
the front of my thighs get very tight. It doesn't feel like a lactic acid
problem - there's no sensation of burn or cramping.

So I'm assuming it's a stretching problem. Am I right, and if so, can
anyone suggest exercises which will help? Also, should I keep going when
it starts to really hurt in full tuck, or could I be doing damage?

[1] To be fair, I only started time trialling at 48.

Simon, your problem is really nothing more than flexibility. You have
to practice such a position assiduously and after months to years
you'll suddenly realize you aren't working to hold that position. Some
people come by it naturally but most get it from effort.

Simon Brooke said:

I'm a cyclist of limited performance.

So is everyone <g>.

Quoted message said:

So if I'm going to improve my time trial
performance I essentially need to improve my aerodynamics (and get weight
off, but that's a different problem).

If you're overweight, the biggest (if not easiest!) improvement will
come from losing the extra poundage. Makes it easier to bend over and
breathe deep, too <g>.

What is your pre-event warm-up routine? And after? --D-y

Simon Brooke said:

I'm a cyclist of limited performance. I have bad circulation problems in my
left leg, which means I can't pump much blood round it anyway; and I'm on
warfarin to prevent clotting, so the blood I can pump doesn't carry as
much oxygen as normal. So if I'm going to improve my time trial
performance I essentially need to improve my aerodynamics (and get weight
off, but that's a different problem).

Let's be clear about this: we're not talking great performance. I want to
break 30 minutes for a ten. I know everyone else can do that while eating
their sandwiches, but my lifetime personal best is 30:06[1].

I've been out this morning working on my tuck. I find that in full tuck I
can manage 40Km/h on the flat at 90rpm, without any feeling of strain -
which is great, far more than I need. But I can't hold full tuck for long,
and as soon as I sit up the speed at what feels like the same level of
power output drops to 25Km/h. What's happening is that the muscles along
the front of my thighs get very tight. It doesn't feel like a lactic acid
problem - there's no sensation of burn or cramping.

So I'm assuming it's a stretching problem. Am I right, and if so, can
anyone suggest exercises which will help? Also, should I keep going when
it starts to really hurt in full tuck, or could I be doing damage?

[1] To be fair, I only started time trialling at 48.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke)http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; have mercy on the slender grass

Can you be more specific about where this discomfort is? Is it
constant, or does it appear at a specific point in each pedal
rotation? Also how agressive is your position? Bar position, etc. When
you are in your tuck, what attitude do your arms have?

I was on a long ride the other day, and my seatpost binder bolt wasn't
adequately tightened (and since I am a Paris-Roubaix sceptic, I didn't
have a set screw as a backup.) and my seat slid down about 5cm during
the course of the ride. It happened very gradually and as I had been
making seat adjustments, I was expecting things to feel weird. Anyway,
it took quite a while for me to figure out what happened, and one of
the things that tipped me off was a very strange sensation (not unlike
pain!) in the front of my thighs about 1/3 of the way up from my knee
toward the inside when the pedals were at about 2 o'clock. This
discomfort was worse with a greater upper body lean. Perhaps you have
a seat that is low, but didn't cause problems because you have not
been using a tuck recently?

Joseph

in message <[email hidden]>,

(') said:

Simon Brooke said:

I'm a cyclist of limited performance. I have bad circulation problems in
my left leg, which means I can't pump much blood round it anyway; and
I'm on warfarin to prevent clotting, so the blood I can pump doesn't
carry as much oxygen as normal. So if I'm going to improve my time trial
performance I essentially need to improve my aerodynamics (and get
weight off, but that's a different problem).

Let's be clear about this: we're not talking great performance. I want
to break 30 minutes for a ten. I know everyone else can do that while
eating their sandwiches, but my lifetime personal best is 30:06[1].

I've been out this morning working on my tuck. I find that in full tuck
I can manage 40Km/h on the flat at 90rpm, without any feeling of strain
- which is great, far more than I need. But I can't hold full tuck for
long, and as soon as I sit up the speed at what feels like the same
level of power output drops to 25Km/h. What's happening is that the
muscles along the front of my thighs get very tight. It doesn't feel
like a lactic acid problem - there's no sensation of burn or cramping.

So I'm assuming it's a stretching problem. Am I right, and if so, can
anyone suggest exercises which will help? Also, should I keep going when
it starts to really hurt in full tuck, or could I be doing damage?

Can you be more specific about where this discomfort is?

It feels like it's a muscle on the front of the thigh from the middle of
the knee to the outside of the pelvis.

Quoted message said:

Is it
constant, or does it appear at a specific point in each pedal
rotation?

It's not at any specific point in the rotation. It doesn't start
immediately I get into the tuck - the first two or three minutes are easy
and I can spin well, with plenty of power. Then the tightness begins to
build and after about five minutes it really feels painfully tight.

Quoted message said:

Also how agressive is your position? Bar position, etc. When
you are in your tuck, what attitude do your arms have?

My saddle is about 70mm higher than my forearm rests; the tribars are up at
about 25 or 30 degrees to the horizontal; from the nose of the saddle to
the forearm rests is 580mm and from the rests to the grips of the tribars
is another 290mm.

Pictures (not very good ones) here:
http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/album/kitchenpr0n/

In the tuck my elbows are considerably forward of my shoulders, and my
wrists are a bit higher - not much higher - than my elbows. Upper arm
angle say 60 degrees to the horizontal, forearms about 10 degrees to
horizontal. Back certainly no more than ten degrees above horizontal.

Minor problem with legs hitting belly, but like most masters fattie I have
a bit of an airobelly.

Quoted message said:

I was on a long ride the other day, and my seatpost binder bolt wasn't
adequately tightened (and since I am a Paris-Roubaix sceptic, I didn't
have a set screw as a backup.) and my seat slid down about 5cm during
the course of the ride. It happened very gradually and as I had been
making seat adjustments, I was expecting things to feel weird. Anyway,
it took quite a while for me to figure out what happened, and one of
the things that tipped me off was a very strange sensation (not unlike
pain!) in the front of my thighs about 1/3 of the way up from my knee
toward the inside when the pedals were at about 2 o'clock. This
discomfort was worse with a greater upper body lean. Perhaps you have
a seat that is low, but didn't cause problems because you have not
been using a tuck recently?

Seat is pretty damn high - I actually have it about 25mm higher when I've
got tribars on the bike than without, presumably because of the rotated
pelvis. But I'm going pretty much to the edge of the straight leg point.
If I push it any higher my pelvis starts to rock.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Life would be much easier if I had the source code.

in message <[email hidden]>,

(') said:

Simon Brooke said:

I'm a cyclist of limited performance.

So is everyone <g>.

Quoted message said:

So if I'm going to improve my time trial
performance I essentially need to improve my aerodynamics (and get
weight off, but that's a different problem).

If you're overweight, the biggest (if not easiest!) improvement will
come from losing the extra poundage. Makes it easier to bend over and
breathe deep, too <g>.

What is your pre-event warm-up routine? And after?

Usually ride to the start (circa eight miles) and home again afterwards. So
I'll do typically 26-34 miles with the time trial in the middle of it. I
typically use low gears and spin more on the way home. I'm not doing any
post-ride stretching, and wonder if I should be (I do suffer from leg
cramps after long rides, but not usually after time trials).

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
There's nae Gods, an there's precious few heroes
but there's plenty on the dole in th Land o th Leal;
And it's time now, tae sweep the future clear o
th lies o a past that we know wis never real.

in message <[email hidden]>,

(') said:

Simon Brooke said:

I'm a cyclist of limited performance. I have bad circulation problems in
my left leg, which means I can't pump much blood round it anyway; and
I'm on warfarin to prevent clotting, so the blood I can pump doesn't
carry as much oxygen as normal. So if I'm going to improve my time trial
performance I essentially need to improve my aerodynamics (and get
weight off, but that's a different problem).

Let's be clear about this: we're not talking great performance. I want
to break 30 minutes for a ten. I know everyone else can do that while
eating their sandwiches, but my lifetime personal best is 30:06[1].

I've been out this morning working on my tuck. I find that in full tuck
I can manage 40Km/h on the flat at 90rpm, without any feeling of strain
- which is great, far more than I need. But I can't hold full tuck for
long, and as soon as I sit up the speed at what feels like the same
level of power output drops to 25Km/h. What's happening is that the
muscles along the front of my thighs get very tight. It doesn't feel
like a lactic acid problem - there's no sensation of burn or cramping.

So I'm assuming it's a stretching problem. Am I right, and if so, can
anyone suggest exercises which will help? Also, should I keep going when
it starts to really hurt in full tuck, or could I be doing damage?

Simon, your problem is really nothing more than flexibility. You have
to practice such a position assiduously and after months to years
you'll suddenly realize you aren't working to hold that position. Some
people come by it naturally but most get it from effort.

H'mmm.... I fear you're right. But the question: when it hurts, should I
keep pushing, or should I sit up? If I keep pushing, am I going to end up
with an injury?

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

'You cannot put "The Internet" into the Recycle Bin.'

Simon Brooke said:

Usually ride to the start (circa eight miles) and home again afterwards. So
I'll do typically 26-34 miles with the time trial in the middle of it. I
typically use low gears and spin more on the way home.

(Suggestion from afar): Older than 16? Try a long, easy warmup. An
hour. Longer. No jams or hard efforts; pretty steady but loose and
easy. Do the mind-body conversation thing with those quads when
they're in racing position, but not being stressed. Maybe stop once or
more, for a gentle quad stretch, once the muscles are warm. Get the
breathing muscles loose and warm, too.

Enjoy the ride out. That might take some practice <g>. Let the event
take care of itself; you might want to ride a little softer right at
the start, take time to "build" the effort.

If you're going longer, remember to have enough water along, and put
an extra little snack favorite in your pocket for the ride home <g>.
--D-y

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>,

(') said:

Simon Brooke said:

I'm a cyclist of limited performance. I have bad circulation problems in
my left leg, which means I can't pump much blood round it anyway; and
I'm on warfarin to prevent clotting, so the blood I can pump doesn't
carry as much oxygen as normal. So if I'm going to improve my time trial
performance I essentially need to improve my aerodynamics (and get
weight off, but that's a different problem).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Let's be clear about this: we're not talking great performance. I want
to break 30 minutes for a ten. I know everyone else can do that while
eating their sandwiches, but my lifetime personal best is 30:06[1].

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've been out this morning working on my tuck. I find that in full tuck
I can manage 40Km/h on the flat at 90rpm, without any feeling of strain
- which is great, far more than I need. But I can't hold full tuck for
long, and as soon as I sit up the speed at what feels like the same
level of power output drops to 25Km/h. What's happening is that the
muscles along the front of my thighs get very tight. It doesn't feel
like a lactic acid problem - there's no sensation of burn or cramping.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So I'm assuming it's a stretching problem. Am I right, and if so, can
anyone suggest exercises which will help? Also, should I keep going when
it starts to really hurt in full tuck, or could I be doing damage?

Quoted message said:

Can you be more specific about where this discomfort is?

It feels like it's a muscle on the front of the thigh from the middle of
the knee to the outside of the pelvis.

Quoted message said:

Is it
constant, or does it appear at a specific point in each pedal
rotation?

It's not at any specific point in the rotation. It doesn't start
immediately I get into the tuck - the first two or three minutes are easy
and I can spin well, with plenty of power. Then the tightness begins to
build and after about five minutes it really feels painfully tight.

Quoted message said:

Also how agressive is your position? Bar position, etc. When
you are in your tuck, what attitude do your arms have?

My saddle is about 70mm higher than my forearm rests; the tribars are up at
about 25 or 30 degrees to the horizontal; from the nose of the saddle to
the forearm rests is 580mm and from the rests to the grips of the tribars
is another 290mm.

Pictures (not very good ones) here:http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/album/kitchenpr0n/

Nice bike! I think however your problem is due to inappropriate choice
of hydration, as indicated in some of the other pics.

Quoted message said:

In the tuck my elbows are considerably forward of my shoulders, and my
wrists are a bit higher - not much higher - than my elbows. Upper arm
angle say 60 degrees to the horizontal, forearms about 10 degrees to
horizontal. Back certainly no more than ten degrees above horizontal.

Minor problem with legs hitting belly, but like most masters fattie I have
a bit of an airobelly.

Quoted message said:

I was on a long ride the other day, and my seatpost binder bolt wasn't
adequately tightened (and since I am a Paris-Roubaix sceptic, I didn't
have a set screw as a backup.) and my seat slid down about 5cm during
the course of the ride. It happened very gradually and as I had been
making seat adjustments, I was expecting things to feel weird. Anyway,
it took quite a while for me to figure out what happened, and one of
the things that tipped me off was a very strange sensation (not unlike
pain!) in the front of my thighs about 1/3 of the way up from my knee
toward the inside when the pedals were at about 2 o'clock. This
discomfort was worse with a greater upper body lean. Perhaps you have
a seat that is low, but didn't cause problems because you have not
been using a tuck recently?

Seat is pretty damn high - I actually have it about 25mm higher when I've
got tribars on the bike than without, presumably because of the rotated
pelvis. But I'm going pretty much to the edge of the straight leg point.
If I push it any higher my pelvis starts to rock.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke)http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Life would be much easier if I had the source code.

I am not an authority by any means, but I think the 25mm seat height
change is extreme if it results in more than usual leg extension.
Unless you give yourself plenty of time to get used to it, and perhaps
even then it may be a bit much.

I don't think a seat height change by itself is desirable for a TT
setup. Rather, keep the thigh-torso angle the same, and rotate the
whole position forward about the BB. This means the saddle must
usually come up and forward, but the idea is to keep the leg extension
the same as you are used to, and the thigh-torso-pelvis attitude the
same, just all tilted forward to ge the back more parallel to the
ground to reduce frontal area.

It's hard to say with knowing about your fore-aft seat position, but
maybe 70mm diff between seat and bars is a bit much? Judging by the
pics we a roughly the same height and have our seats pretty far back,
and I have my bars 60mm lower than the saddle. (road bars) And when I
try to do my impression of a pro cyclist and rest my forearms on the
tops, my chest and aerobelly get in the way too much, and I feel much
to "folded-up" and it is not a maintainable position. But when I have
my bike set up for TT with the seat up and forward, the aerobar
armrests are 10-12 cm below the seat, and I feel much more open. This
is from the forward seat position:

http://arbitrary.org/pinarello.jpg

So my thoughts in short are the seat is too high (without compensating
forward placement), and you have too acute a torso-thigh angle all of
which you are unaccustomed to, and which is perhaps made worse by
being less than optimally limber. Try moving the seat forward to open
up your torso angle, and then adjsut bar height accordingly.

Joseph

Simon Brooke said:

I'm a cyclist of limited performance. ...

Quoted message said:

Am I right, and if so, can
anyone suggest exercises which will help?

Try spanking the muscle.