Muscle/Tendon/Ligaments?

Also, if it makes any difference at all. I think most people that have been in sport for a while can tell weither a pain is a bad pain (injury type) or a good pain (after a workout soreness type of "pain"😉

I am not 100% sure but if i had to chose, I would consider this a "good" pain. However I could be wrong, because I haven't felt this exact sensation before.

I wonder if there is some instability in your knee and your menisci are getting abused? Have a doc or physical therapist assess your "propreoceptors" for that leg. There are some easy exercises to strengthen them up if needed.
You might give some orthotics in your shoes a shot.

good luck!

thanks for the advice, but im not looking to waste more money on a doctor.. I won't go into it to far, but basically I cured myself and the doctor had been telling me to do the exact opposite of what cured me. The doctor before that proclaimed I had no problems...

I guess I can look up some info on what you said. I have orthotics. I don't need so much the basic getting started advice, thanks though.

also, everyone doesn't have the same condition when there knee feels funny. My meniscus was looked with arthroscopic surgery, it was in very good shape, in fact there was no damage to anything in there. Would that rule out the possibility of having this problem?

Btw Is it a balance thing that you are suggesting, i havent found much yet, but that's what I understand atm.

I was wondering why half the things that came up in google were your posts.

You misspelled it, Proprioceptors.

jagrazor said:

I was wondering why half the things that came up in google were your posts.

You misspelled it, Proprioceptors.

Huh? I don't get it. I'm the only one who offered you anything and you are being critical? I don't know sport, but it doesn't sound like you cured yourself.

lumpy said:

Huh? I don't get it. I'm the only one who offered you anything and you are being critical? I don't know sport, but it doesn't sound like you cured yourself.

Of course im being critical, who wants to waste there time. I don't, I've done nearly enough of it. Don't take me as being mean though, I'm not being mean, just selective and I want to know the whys hows and whats ect.

I did PT in Sept, it ended up making me worse so in oct I needed a surgery, and even when i was on crutches my PT didn't think anything was wrong.Then after that my doctor was having me do something that was doing the opposite of what I needed. x2

Leg extensions, bad because it mashes your patella, and he also said that "studies show that strengthening the VMO will help your problem" although this is true, my VMO was/is stronger than the lateral side which is what was causing the misalignment.

I just want to know what you were talking about is, and how to train them myself, im through wasting my money on the PTs and doctors where I live, none of them I have encountered have been worth the $$.

So simply, I was figuring out what Pro.... (sp) are and how to train them myself, and even if I needed to. (its something I have never heard about.)

also after doing a google search with how you had spelled the word, I noticed that half the items that came up were your posts on this forum, so it seemed like you were cutting and copying this advice to everyone. Which makes it seem less valuable. Also If you look on this forum, I have asked lots of questions about knees, so I have taken advice before 🙂

Ok that's cool.

I'll try to explain about proprioceptors. Thanks for the spelling help! I learned about this the hard way with an 80% torn PCL and a medial meniscus split in half. Neither can be repaired so I have to rely on PT to keep away from arthritis and knee replacement. That's how I know about this. I've been to 5 orthopedic surgeons and 3 different PT's before I had a consensus.

Proprioceptors have to do with micro balancing of your muscles and your place in space.

Barefoot on your bad leg with a chair about 3 feet in front of you, bend the knee about 30% from straight and reach out and down to touch the seat of the chair. Your good leg will of course be sticking out behind you for balance.
Your bent knee will be responsible for supporting you and balancing you. If you're stable and your knee doesn't move around and isn't wobbly, than your prop's are fine. If you're at all wobbly then you need a PT to show you how to strengthen them.

The prop's keep your joint aligned and stable. If there is laxity in the joint - like from stretched cruciate ligaments - then prop's are critical for minimizing the erosion of menisci and the joint in general.

Strong prop's are good for injury prevention - football players do a lot of exercises to protect their knees for example.

good luck!

lumpy said:

Ok that's cool.

I'll try to explain about proprioceptors. Thanks for the spelling help! I learned about this the hard way with an 80% torn PCL and a medial meniscus split in half. Neither can be repaired so I have to rely on PT to keep away from arthritis and knee replacement. That's how I know about this. I've been to 5 orthopedic surgeons and 3 different PT's before I had a consensus.

Proprioceptors have to do with micro balancing of your muscles and your place in space.

Barefoot on your bad leg with a chair about 3 feet in front of you, bend the knee about 30% from straight and reach out and down to touch the seat of the chair. Your good leg will of course be sticking out behind you for balance.
Your bent knee will be responsible for supporting you and balancing you. If you're stable and your knee doesn't move around and isn't wobbly, than your prop's are fine. If you're at all wobbly then you need a PT to show you how to strengthen them.

The prop's keep your joint aligned and stable. If there is laxity in the joint - like from stretched cruciate ligaments - then prop's are critical for minimizing the erosion of menisci and the joint in general.

Strong prop's are good for injury prevention - football players do a lot of exercises to protect their knees for example.

good luck!

I was a little wobbly, very little. Can you explain some of the excersizes i can do? (btw thanks)

What you just did is one of them. In the same position, put the chair to your side so you have to twist your torso a bit (but not your knee). Do it to the other side too. Do them very slowly and hold for a few seconds. Do about 10 reps each way and repeat the circuit until you're fried! Try to get to failure of your quads, hams, and glutes. Go for the burn baby!

Essentially your training your muscles to micro balance you. That will strengthen and stabilize you joint, which may help with the pain your feeling. I'm not a doc so my free advice is worth what you paid for it 😄

As you get stronger, get some dense foam or thick carpet that gives under your foot. That will increase the instability and make you work harder.

You really should find a sports medicine PT to show you these exercises and also assess any strength imbalances you may have. I have a weak hamstring on my bad leg, so I do a lot of extra stuff for it.

good luck!

I got the same pain and I think it is definitely BAD. I hurt my knee trying to dunk while being overweight a few years ago. Had an MRI and was negative. I don't like to bend it more than 20 degrees or so. Do you have any audible grinding going down stairs? FWIW I would wear some neoprene type braces to give you just a little more support. Try it and see if they hurt less.

Meek One said:

I got the same pain and I think it is definitely BAD. I hurt my knee trying to dunk while being overweight a few years ago. Had an MRI and was negative. I don't like to bend it more than 20 degrees or so. Do you have any audible grinding going down stairs? FWIW I would wear some neoprene type braces to give you just a little more support. Try it and see if they hurt less.

no, there is no grinding. Like i said im almost better, i think i just need to adjust things just another few % to make myself able to go w/o any problems. So i don't think it was anything big.

There are lots of excersises you can do which will highlight weak spots in the chain of movement and its true that DIY methods are probably only effective with very minor injuries and irritation. In terms of Proprioceptive excersises, a stability ball has been usefull for me, or wobble boards are very good (try standing on one of those with eyes shut!) My PT told me to by this sort of inflatable disc thing which kind of works similar to wobble boards though far more versatile. You can try squats on it and stuff. Its just generally very good for balance and works things equally. I can now ride on the Tube trains of London without having to hold onto anything (almost) Hope this didn't sound like an advert!

jagrazor said:

I have had chondromalacia for about a year. Finally learning what the cause was and fixing it the pain has gone away for the most part.

Now however, while having started a job that requires a lot of knee bending (Federal Express) and lifting somewhat heavy packages (up to 75lbs, so not super duper in comparison to what a person would squat), I have tenderness around my knee area, it feels sort of like a bruise or muscle soreness after a workout, but my inner/outer thighs my hamstrings and my quads don't feel sore, just right around my knee especially right below (not inside but down toward the earth if im standing up) my kneecap. Also a little on the medial side of my knee a little.

Can anyone take an educated guess as to what this is, if it is tendon/muscle/ligaments that are just sore from work and are getting stronger, or if it could be something else?

I know exactly what you mean, all of last year i worked in a catalogue distrabution centre, this involved constant lifting with boxes weighing in at around the same as your, some days items would be heavier.

Someone pointed out that as footwear begins to get worn it places undue pressure on interior or alterior ligements depending upon how one pronates.
this can be rectifyed by replacing your footwear ever 3-400miles or as they begin to show signs of excessesive wear.

I have and will always continue to use Glucosamine sulpahate with aditional Vitamin B & C since it increases the rate at which collagen is absorbed from the diet thus allowing any cartilage to be repaired at excellerated rates than that of normal dietry consumption. It has worked for me and i no longer get to experience that kind of pain well unless my footwear is due to be changed.

Hope this helps you like it has me

closesupport said:

I know exactly what you mean, all of last year i worked in a catalogue distrabution centre, this involved constant lifting with boxes weighing in at around the same as your, some days items would be heavier.

Someone pointed out that as footwear begins to get worn it places undue pressure on interior or alterior ligements depending upon how one pronates.
this can be rectifyed by replacing your footwear ever 3-400miles or as they begin to show signs of excessesive wear.

I have and will always continue to use Glucosamine sulpahate with aditional Vitamin B & C since it increases the rate at which collagen is absorbed from the diet thus allowing any cartilage to be repaired at excellerated rates than that of normal dietry consumption. It has worked for me and i no longer get to experience that kind of pain well unless my footwear is due to be changed.

Hope this helps you like it has me

thanks man, i will have to start looking into some vitamin B stuff.

I want everyone to know I appreciate your help in this thread and in others. I have noticed though that the more I just relax and keep doing the excersize that works one side of my leg (to pull the knee cap back to center ) the better I feel. When this feeling that I felt came on, it was probably because I hadn't done the excersize in about a week because work had gotten hard and I didnt want to risk doing it + work so I wouldnt hurt myself worse or in a different way. So i suppose that side got weak again and what had healed basically was getting re irriated. I started doing the excersize again and now im back to where i was and then some, I actually felt like going on a run today, although I don't want to risk it quite yet. I will just be able to swim and cycle a little more than before w/o pain.

Hopefully I will be back running cycling and swimming at 100% in a month of this or so.

You may want to evaluate your lower extremity for any segmental dysfunction abnormalities such as pronation of the subtalar joint and collapse medial arches of the foot associated with internal rotation of the lower leg, which most likely is the cause of the problem. And, if its correct that you have the Vatus Medialis Oblique muscle much stonger than the VL and VM, which is uncommon then you need to look at the LE because under repetitive bending/squatting with heavy loads will actually increase the dysfunction to the point that you may damaging the cartilage behind the patella.

BTW orthopedic surgeons and PT's are not the most appropriate to diagnose this condition. Look at Podiatrist, Chiropractors or Physiatrist. These doctors look at mechanics and function. Ortho. Surgeons are great at repairing fracture, dislocation and thinks that need surgery not for function or biomechanics. PT are to follow doctors prescription and cant diagnose conditions other than perform rehab to regain function

I've had some variation of chondromalacia since I was kid. Besides PT, I've been wearing orthotics for at least the last fifteen years. They have helped immensely. Not only that, they make every pair of shoes I try on fit me perfecty!

friedmikey said:

I've had some variation of chondromalacia since I was kid. Besides PT, I've been wearing orthotics for at least the last fifteen years. They have helped immensely. Not only that, they make every pair of shoes I try on fit me perfecty!

I knew it, you had to have some sort of LE dysfunction. BTW how long has it been since you change the last set of orthotics? Most of the time when arch supports lose its effectiveness it can lead to poor support and control of the foot and entire lower kinetic chain, which can leading to your present symptoms again. Also I would focus on performing close chain exercises (in other words, foot planted on solid base) to improve muscle balancing/stabilization around the knee. Proprioception activity is good for the ankle/foot region, but not so effective for the knee. You need more control than anything else because you are loading the pedal system with 20 to 75lbs each time you lift boxes, which your body is not acustome too. BTW, I am a Chiropractor and Physiatrist specialize in sport medicine and rehab. I am a team doctor for a professional hockey team and local college. I see this condition in tennis, volleyball and hockey players and 8.5 times out of 10 the knee problems is due to faulty mechanics, if no acute injury is the cause of symptoms.

Good luck

I’m not clear if you may have confused me with the original poster, but I’ll go along with it…

I’ve lost count, but I believe I’m on my fifth set of orthotics. My latest pair is about 1.5 years old. My doctors have told me that I should wear orthotics for the rest of my life, which is fine with me because they are incredibly comfortable. My condition is mostly due to my “knock-knees”. My legs are not entirely straight and when combined with my tendency to pronate, my knee caps do not always track correctly. When I was young, the doctor suggested a minor corrective surgery involving installing staples on the inside of my femur and tibia bones to, in a sense, force my legs straight as I grew. My parents opted not to go this route, but in hindsight, I wish they had. Not that my condition is bad at all, but I’d rather not have knock-knees. My PT in years past included closed chain exercises, as well as open chain, balance and electrical stimulation exercises to increase overall strength throughout my legs. Knee pain has been very infrequent for me for quite some time.