MUni discussion thread



MuniAddict wrote:
> Or do my typical 4-5 foot drops!:eek:



-Most- trails don't have 4-5 foot drops. Real "free ride" courses are
few and far between, unless you live in SoCal or Vancouver B.C. Even
the trails we're doing at Cal MUni Weekend this year are not full on
free ride courses. They do contain some optional free ride elements,
but you still end up riding mostly XC trail.

The more I do MUni, the more the 24" MUni feels like a downhill bike.
It's great for the downhills, but unless you shuttle it you end up
suffering through the uphills and flats for a relatively short descent.
Whereas, the 29er is nonstop flow-riding fun. So where's the 29er
category for CMW? ;)


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phlegm wrote:
> -Most- trails don't have 4-5 foot drops. Real "free ride" courses are
> few and far between, unless you live in SoCal or Vancouver B.C. Even
> the trails we're doing at Cal MUni Weekend this year are not full on
> free ride courses. They do contain some optional free ride elements,
> but you still end up riding mostly XC trail.
>
> The more I do MUni, the more the 24" MUni feels like a downhill bike.
> It's great for the downhills, but unless you shuttle it you end up
> suffering through the uphills and flats for a relatively short descent.
> Whereas, the 29er is nonstop flow-riding fun. So where's the 29er
> category for CMW? ;)

Hmm, i live in SoCal and there are tons of great technical trails with a
wealth of big drop opps, with a lot of it is on the "flanks", where we
routinely stop to session the various lines and drops, etc.

And are you saying that the 29er is actually easier to climb steeps
than a 24? Hmm, I don't know about that, but I suppose crank length
would play a role for sure. Like a 29er with 175's might make climbing
easier vs a 24" muni with 125's. I've done distance rides on a 29er
while waiting for my 36er, and I found it light, nimble and failry
fast, but for sheer speed and long distace riding, it pales to the
coker/36er IMO.

I can see how it would be nice for longer, more cross country riding,
but for down & dirty hardcore muni I just can't see it. A 26er maybe.
But then maybe the 29er will become the Muni size of choice in the
future. :D It kinda seems like some people want the 29er as a "dual"
use uni; Muni and coker-esqe distance uni. IMO it's just better to have
a uni made specifically and purpose built for each category; a hardcore
24" muni setup, and a 36er.


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MuniAddict wrote:
> And are you saying that the 29er is actually easier to climb steeps than
> a 24? Hmm, I don't know about that, but I suppose crank length would
> play a role for sure. Like a 29er with 175's might make climbing easier
> vs a 24" muni with 125's. I've done distance rides on a 29er while
> waiting for my 36er, and I found it light, nimble and failry fast, but
> for sheer speed and long distace riding, it pales to the coker/36er
> IMO.



In my experience, my KH29 with 152s climbs just about as well as my
KH24 with 152s (both are the 05/06 Onza hubset). I know this seems
counterintuitive, but the difference is largely in the tires, I think.
In my case, I run a WTB Exiwolf 2.3" at around 24 psi on my KH29 and a
Duro 3.0" at around 18 psi on my KH24. The slightly higher pressure
larger diameter tire feels snappier, and it rolls over bumps better.
These benefits make up for the larger diameter when climbing. And, on
the downhill, the higher pressure isn't as big of a deal as it would be
on a 24" tire because the larger diameter rolls over the rough stuff
better.

Where the 29er suffers compared to the 24" is on bigger drops. I feel
pretty comfortable up to about 18" drops on mine, and frankly even when
I ride my 24" I rarely seek out drops larger than 18". It's just not
required for the trails around here, and my ankles are prone to
tweaking.



> I can see how it would be nice for longer, more cross country riding,
> but for down & dirty hardcore muni I just can't see it. A 26er maybe.
> But then maybe the 29er will become the Muni size of choice in the
> future. :D



Longer cross country riding -is- hardcore muni. ;)



> It kinda seems like some people want the 29er as a "dual" use uni; Muni
> and coker-esqe distance uni. IMO it's just better to have a uni made
> specifically and purpose built for each category; a hardcore 24" muni
> setup, and a 36er.



I truly believe that a 29er fills a necessary gap between the 24" and
36" setups. A 24" is just too small for long XC rides (unless you're
Kris and you've ridden 50K trails at the drop of a hat ;) ), and 36ers
are disproportionately heavy enough that I lose the flickable feel that
a 29er has.

All sizes have their ideal purposes. Compromise is inevitable when
riding diverse terrain with only one wheel and only one gear, so it's
really a matter of what a rider prefers for the terrain that is most
readily available.


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phlegm wrote:
> I run a WTB Exiwolf 2.3" at around 24 psi on my KH29 and a Duro 3.0" at
> around 18 psi on my KH24. The slightly higher pressure larger diameter
> tire feels snappier, and it rolls over bumps better.
>
> Longer cross country riding -is- hardcore muni. ;)

I find that you roll over stuff (tractor) much more easily with a wider,
high volume fatter tire, like the 3.0 Duro or Gazz, than a narrower
tire like the 2.3 with higher psi and lower volume. Maybe it's just the
added momentum of the larger diameter wheel; I love taking my 36er out
on the trails for MUni, just as is planned for each of the 3 days for
this year's CMW.

And when I think of hard core muni I guess I'm mostly referring to the
intensity of doing big drops, not just long distances. While it's fun
to just drop in and go non-stop over mostly singletrack for miles and
miles, I also love really technical, rocky MUni where you can stop and
find a variety of lines to session, or big ledgy drops either on the
trail or off on the sides. :)


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MuniAddict wrote:
> I find that you roll over stuff (tractor) much more easily with a wider,
> high volume fatter tire, like the 3.0 Duro or Gazz, than a narrower
> tire like the 2.3 with higher psi and lower volume. Maybe it's just the
> added momentum of the larger diameter wheel; I love taking my 36er out
> on the trails for MUni, just as is planned for each of the 3 days for
> this year's CMW.



It's not really the momentum of the larger wheel that makes it easier.
It's simply that (all other things being equal) larger diameter wheels
generally roll over bumps more smoothly than smaller diameter wheels.
For example, consider rolling a 20" trials wheel up a small curb
compared to a 36" wheel.



> And when I think of hard core muni I guess I'm mostly referring to the
> intensity of doing big drops, not just long distances. While it's fun
> to just drop in and go non-stop over mostly singletrack for miles and
> miles, I also love really technical, rocky MUni where you can stop and
> find a variety of lines to session, or big ledgy drops either on the
> trail or off on the sides. :)



29er MUni is inbetween what you describe. Miles and miles of technical
trail without the "big stuff" that forces me (and any other mortal
unicyclist) to dismount every few minutes. I usually associate
sessioning with trials more than MUni. When I'm in the mood for MUni I
want nonstop riding, not, "Oh, let's stop and play for 15 minutes and
see if we can clear it without maiming ourselves!" :D


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phlegm wrote:
> When I'm in the mood for MUni I want nonstop riding, not, "Oh, let's
> stop and play for 15 minutes and see if we can clear it without maiming
> ourselves!" :D

Haha yeah, especially at my age! But I love the challenge!:p


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I LOVE MUNI!


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kington99 wrote:
> A hobnob is an oaty biscuit, the fact that they don't exist in america
> just goes to show that you have no culinary heritage :)
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I'm still a relative newbie at Muni with less than a year, but I am
riding a 26" muni and I find it to be the best of both worlds between
the 29 and 24. This past winter/spring I rode the 36er hard on a lot
of Colorado hill climbs. I know the joys of the 36 inch tire. I've
been riding muni with other people on 24" and I find them to be SO
slow, on the flats and gradual downhill especially. It seems like on
my 26" large marge setup tire I can bomb through steep rocky crud so
much faster, and with the LM rim and 3 inch duro (I agree with Terry on
the tire size) it can absorb so much. I don't do 5 foot drops yet:eek:
:eek: but I'm getting there. I guess my two bits is I am psyched about
the 26 incher.

Also, just a note about the Surly Endo 4.0 tire vs. the 3.0 inch Duro.
I really wanted the Endo 4 inch tire to be my everything tire. It just
looks so friggin cool and it leaves such a remarkably bewildering tread
to mountain bikers following you up wet singletrack! But alas, I
reluctantly agree that it pales in performance compared to a 3.0 tire.
I didn't want to believe it, but my muni skills increased considerably
once I went to the 3.0 Duro. I did do a couple of amazing rides in the
Great Sand Dunes National Park on the Endomorph and for snowy/winter
riding I will definitely keep it around, but I will stick with the 3.0
for dry singletrack riding.


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phlegm wrote:
> I truly believe that a 29er fills a necessary gap between the 24" and
> 36" setups. A 24" is just too small for long XC rides (unless you're
> Kris and you've ridden 50K trails at the drop of a hat ;) ), and 36ers
> are disproportionately heavy enough that I lose the flickable feel that
> a 29er has.
>
> All sizes have their ideal purposes. Compromise is inevitable when
> riding diverse terrain with only one wheel and only one gear, so it's
> really a matter of what a rider prefers for the terrain that is most
> readily available.


It will be interesting to see what develops as far as wheel size when
the KH geared hub comes out. I've read that it's hard to use high gear
on a 29 off road. This may bring back the popularity of the 26er. W/
a 3" tire it's almost as big as a 29, and can absorb big drops.


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Ride everywhere and never just ride anywhere. If you can ride where you
are going within a hour, do it, and if you can do a trick 50-75% of the
time do it along the way.
Parafrasing a pro skater when asked for advise to kids who wanted to
get much better and maybee turn pro one day.
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missed edit cut off.

'KH's opinion on 26, 29\" G-Munis' (http://tinyurl.com/2eyqly) post 57


--
skilewis74

Ride everywhere and never just ride anywhere. If you can ride where you
are going within a hour, do it, and if you can do a trick 50-75% of the
time do it along the way.
Parafrasing a pro skater when asked for advise to kids who wanted to
get much better and maybee turn pro one day.
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What's needed is a fat 29er tire with tough sidewalls. Apparently, there
are a few of these in the works, but nothing for sale yet. My riding
buddy, Gary, and I are sort of newby 29er riders (I just can't quite
get the feel of mine although it's been a few months, and Gary just got
his KH29 last week), and we were talking about how we love the speed
possibilities with the 29er, but miss the big old cushion of a 3" tire.
Climbing-wise, I'm not quite as good on the 29er with cranks in the 150
position as I am on the 24 w/165s, but it's not as different as you
might suspect. The larger wheel does carry rotational momentum better,
and so spins up the hill a little more readily than the smaller one.


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*==========================
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-bump- this thread is too good to die


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Hey Phlegm, where did you buy your exiwolf from? How much was it?


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anton005 wrote:
> Hey Phlegm, where did you buy your exiwolf from? How much was it?



I bought it from the local bike shop for $30.


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I guess Muni *tires* would fit in this thread topic. Anyway, I just got
an "Intense" 24x3 DH tire from ride-this.com for only FIVE BUCKS! It's
used, but the guy said there's still a good 90% tread left and still
nubs, so that's a great deal!

I initially went to the site to order an Arrow Wide bite 24x3, which is
almost identical to the duro but about $10 less, but they were out of
stock and I wanted one in time for cmw.

I also got a cool primo 25.4mm seat post (rail type) also for $14. Me
happy!:D


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yeah my tires tread is wearing down a bunch(mostly from gliding) so i
might have to get a new tire somewhat soon. that tire looks cool
terry!


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phlegm wrote:
> I bought it from the local bike shop for $30.



Are you riding the wire bead or the kevlar (folding tire) bead?


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anton005 wrote:
> Are you riding the wire bead or the kevlar (folding tire) bead?



It's the kevlar one.


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Hit some trails the other day, stuff i did on my mountain bike some 7
years ago(just moved back into the area)

and running a 24, which is great for hopping up and over the logs and
great for the drops... but boy do i feel slow. My old mtn bike loop
that took 15 minutes... took... an unbeleivabley long time(partly
because of the tire size, partly due to redoing the log hops etc...)

but oh it was so nice, the crisp fall breeze, the leaves falling, and
jsut rocky rooting log strewn goodness!!


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wumpus wrote:
>
>
> and running a 24, which is great for hopping up and over the logs and
> great for the drops... but boy do i feel slow.

It's a bullet train compared to doing MUni on 19" trials, which, for
some reason, MANY used at moab, last year's CMW, and I suspect there
will be plenty used this year as well!:rolleyes:


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