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Mtn Lions and Bikes

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Road Cycling
Published
11 January 2004
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21 January 2004
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Stephen Harding
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  1. Stephen Harding <[email hidden]> wrote:
    : I'll bet that biker would be alive today if he'd been wearing his helmet!

    funny you should mention that.

    the cat had been dragging off one of the two surviving mountain biker's by her head (the other was
    playing tug-of-war over her with the cat at the time). it would stand to reason if she was wearing a
    helmet and it had stayed on that it probably would have prevented scalp laceration.

    she may have been wearing one for all i know. cnn didn't say one way or the other.
    --
    david reuteler [email hidden]

  2. Stephen Harding <[email hidden]> wrote in news:3ffeee6e$1@news-
    1.oit.umass.edu:

    Quoted message said:

    Looks like one MTB'er was killed by a mountain lion out in CA yesterday, and another attacked. I
    don't really know the details yet.

    There's a report here: cnn.comindex.html

    The first thing to realize is that your risk is very low. Maybe 10 humans have been killed by
    mountain lions in California over the past 100 years. The last person killed was almost 20 years
    ago. Compare that to the number of humans killed by Ford Explorers.

  3. Stephen Harding <[email hidden]> wrote in news:3ffeee6e$1@news-
    1.oit.umass.edu:

    Quoted message said:


    Generally you won't have the time to think, since these critters are typically ambush type
    predators, hitting you from behind (a [censored] cat trait in general, and why people living in India
    where man eating tigers are present, wear masks with a face on the back of their heads).

    Was thinking the same thing. You could paint eyes on the back of your helmet, I guess.

    Quoted message said:

    Depends on terrain, but do you think you could accelerate up to 25 mph on a flat smooth trail
    pretty quick? I'll bet I could! Do you even attempt to run/pedal away?

    Coincidentaly, was reading about mtn lions the day before this happened. Apparently they are
    powerful sprinters but not good over long distances (low lung capacity, or something like that). The
    advice was not to run. If I had a clear downhill path, I'd take it, though. On flat not
    ground...maybe not. I think the lion can accellerate a lot faster then you.

    Do you ward

    Quoted message said:

    off the beast somehow with the bike? Abandon the bike and make a grab for a bike stick or stones?
    Stay perfectly still and hope "Big Tabby" goes away?

    Make yourself look as big as possible, which to me means, grab the bike. At least you could use it
    to fend off a pounce to some extent. Supposedly, crouching down further makes you look like a prey
    animal, so bending over to pick up sticks or rocks might be risky.

    One suggestion I've never seen (perhaps because it's stupid), would be to ride right at the cat.
    After all, some prey animals, like deer, will try and defend themselves by charging, and I think the
    cats are cautious of that. I guess that goes back to your original question...If came around the
    corder and you saw a cat standing there on a single track, what do you do? Turn around the other way
    and run for it (turning your back is probably a bad idea)? Or charge full speed toward the cat, and
    hopefully right by at?

  4. Fri, 09 Jan 2004 13:09:48 -0500, <[email hidden]>,

    Stephen Harding said:

    Do you even attempt to run/pedal away? Do you ward off the beast somehow with the bike? Abandon
    the bike and make a grab for a bike stick or stones? Stay perfectly still and hope "Big Tabby"
    goes away?

    In parts of BC, teachers and day-care workers are sometimes called upon to run down and wrestle
    cougars that have carried off their young charges. It seems cougars around here are as frequently
    killed with shovels as rifles.

    They're just looking for an easy meal and can generally be dissuaded by rambunctious protest on your
    part. Perhaps the victim in the news decided to 'play dead' as widely recommended for bear attacks.

    Other than soiling myself, I can't predict what I'd do.
    --
    zk

  5. Quoted message said:

    Depends on terrain, but do you think you could accelerate up to 25 mph on a flat smooth trail
    pretty quick? I'll bet I could! Do you even attempt to run/pedal away? Do you ward

    since they can run 40-mph, you'd be removed from the gene pool.

  6. In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

    ...

    Quoted message said:

    Depends on terrain, but do you think you could accelerate up to 25 mph on a flat smooth trail
    pretty quick? I'll bet I could! Do you even attempt to run/pedal away? Do you ward off the beast
    somehow with the bike? Abandon the bike and make a grab for a bike stick or stones? Stay perfectly
    still and hope "Big Tabby" goes away?

    Probably stop and try to keep the bike between him and me. I don't think 25 mph would get you away
    from a Mt. Lion, and running tells him you are prey.

    ....

    --
    Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

    REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

  7. I didn't see anyone post the link or the story yet, so I figured I would.
    It's from chainreaction.comsquirrels.htm, towards the bottom.

    Park bicyclist conquers cat

    by Mike Dawson Peninsula Daily News Sunday, May 26, 1996

    PORT ANGELES - Of all the humans the cougar could have attacked Friday, it had the rotten luck to
    tangle with Phil Anderson, dog wrestler, jujitsu fan. "I went to my back, wrapped my legs around
    him, rolled over and mounted him and started choking him, choking him forever," Anderson said
    Saturday. "It was just nuts."

    Anderson, 28, a Port Angeles mountain bike enthusiast, spent Saturday on the couch, healing from the
    cougar attack in Olympic National Park. He had been riding his mountain bike on the Wolf Creek Trail
    Friday afternoon. The trail is an old road that runs from Whiskey Bend on the Elwha River to
    Hurrican Ridge. Whiskey Bend is about 20 miles west of Port Angeles. It is also the head of the
    popular Hume's Ranch Trail.

    Anderson had ridden his bike up Wolf Creek Trail for about two hours. On the way down, he stopped
    150 feet from the parking lot, dismounted the bike and removed his helmet. He picked up a sweatshirt
    he had left trail-side on his way up.

    He had just pulled the heavy, black sweatshirt down over this head when he spied his opponent. "He
    just moved out of the shadows, so smoothly and quickly." When the cat came at him, he started
    running backwards, he said. He figured the cougar weighed about 80 pounds. The cougar kept coming,
    then leapt at Anderson's chest.

    Anderson fell to his back, locked his legs around the cougar, flipped over and buried his thumbs in
    the animal's throat. He kept the front paws pinned back with his forearms, he said. He had the cat
    pretty much subdued, but it wouldn't die.

    "I was watching him go in and out," Anderson said. "We were at a stalemate."

    To his surprise, the cat made no noise while it struggled, Anderson said. He, however, was shouting
    for help. After about two and a half or three minutes, the cat still wriggling, Anderson got his
    thumb in the cougar's mouth. He just smashed it," Anderson said. That gave the cat the edge. As
    Anderson lost his grip, that cat's claws went into a whirl, ripping at the thick, baggy sweatshirt.

    Some of the claws caught Anderson's chest. "He put a lot more holes in my sweatshirt than he did in
    me," Anderson said. Not wanting any more, the combatants exploded away from each other and ran.

    Anderson ran down the trail, grabbed a baseball bat in his van and returned for his bike.

    The cat had stuck around, still looking for food. "He carried off my bag with four peanut butter and
    jelly sandwiches in it," Anderson said.

    It was the end of Anderson's first cougar sighting.

    Anderson is a short, wiry, high-energy kind of guy with powerful arms and legs, a flat stomach and
    short hair. He's an Olympic Peninsula version of a surfer dude, with a passion for speed and
    gravity. He's also a mountain bike guide and unemployed waiter. The cougar, rather than picking on
    a tasty tourist, jumped a former college wrestler. And he has some other skills that prepared him
    for cougar fighting, he said. "I've been doing this jujitsu dog thing." While unemployed last
    winter, he spent a lot of time wrestling with a 120-pound German Shepherd named Forest, who was
    named for the trees.

    Forest, who loves to wrestle, has been getting a taste of jujitsu, too. Anderson employs a move he
    picked up from "ultimate fighting," a new anything-goes sport in which people fight without gloves.
    The move is a defensive tactic, to help a little guy take down a big guy and choke him out. Anderson
    had already mastered the move on Forest. So when the cougar came along, Anderson was ready.

    "It's something I think about all the time," he said.

    He had good reason to imagine a cat fight. Cougar sightings have been reported in the Hurricane
    Ridge and Elwha districts of the Park once a week for the last month, ranger Gary Gissell said.
    At least two cougars, including one with a limp, have been identified. There may be one or two
    more, he said.

    Rangers don't plan to hunt down Anderson's opponent, he said. With so many in the area, there would
    be no way to tell which one to hunt. Besides, he said, Anderson may have turned the cougar's
    attention to rabbits. "Hopefully, he may have turned the cougar off from hunting humans," he said.

    Gissell said he looked over the fight scene and found cougar tracks and signs of a struggle. He also
    learned, through Anderson's admission, that Anderson was riding on a trail where bikes are
    forbidden.

    The fine is $50. However, Gissel let the injured wrestler off the hook.

    "The cougar was his warning," he said.

    --
    Warm Regards,

    Claire Petersky
    Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato and .net for .com

    Home of the meditative cyclist:
    home.earthlink.netWelcome.htm

    Books just wanna be FREE! See what I mean at:
    bookcrossing.comCpetersky
    My bookshelf: bookcrossing.comCpetersky

    "To forgive is to set the prisoner free and then discover the prisoner
    was you."

  8. A bike helmet is probably like an egg shell to one of those cats.

    Andy

  9. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Bernie said:

    will go on a "wolf howl tour". Usually a busload of people who go up north at night in the winter
    and howl with the wolves. Try it. You will be moved, I promise.

    I was most moved during my first visit to my brother's ranchette. One of his cows had gotten his
    head & horns stuck between fence rails. The poor guy just patiently stood there, stoically waiting
    for someone to eventually extracate him from his dire predicament.

    Cows' horns are kinda like MTB bar ends.

    I guess you can discern my conflicted thoughts about carnivorism. It's hard to eat some creature who
    lovingly licked the salt from the sweat on your hand.

    Wolves don't have such thoughts, 'cuz they usually don't intimate with their victims. We ppl have to
    isolate ourselves from the death/life cycle by way of supermarkets, and convenient, shrink-wrap
    packaging.

    Maybe wolves howl out of a bittersweet sadness/joy about their lot.

    cheers, Tom

    --
    -- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
    [point] bc [point] ca

  10. In article <[email hidden]>, Ken <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    There's a report here: cnn.comindex.html

    The first thing to realize is that your risk is very low. Maybe 10 humans have been killed by
    mountain lions in California over the past 100 years. The last person killed was almost 20 years
    ago. Compare that to the number of humans killed by Ford Explorers.

    There may have only been 10 killed in the last 100 years but this cat was on his second human in a
    matter of hours. The cat was shot when it returned to his first kill, the first biker.

    Since all the fires here in Southern CA, the cats have been displaced, moving in search for food.
    They will be nervous going through strange territory maybe even coming across other cat's scat. This
    one was big enough(approx 110 lbs) that he picked a grown woman off of her bike and was carrying her
    by her face (avoiding the helmet?) The only thing that save her was her riding partner hanging onto
    her leg screaming and kicking at the lions flank. Two other riders came to their aid throwing rocks
    at the cats head driving him off into the bush. This was about 4:30 P.M. so visibility was bad and
    doubt if either rider saw the cat before he hit them.

    This is a single track trail and no danger from SUVs to man or beast. What I find odd is that the
    cat already had one down, why did he attack another so soon after? Doesn't sound like a normal cat
    hunting for food to me.

  11. anybody know what time the incidents occurred? on the news the riders interviewed did not look like
    they had lights (but the recovery did happen at night).

  12. "AJRBJR" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    A bike helmet is probably like an egg shell to one of those cats.

    I would expect some protection. I was bitten by one on the hand ages ago. 4 punctures (two in the
    palm, two in the back of the hand), and none of them came out the other side. definitely not as deep
    as the thickness of the helmet.

    So I guess I'd rather be wearing my bike helmet (and cycling gloves :^) in a lion encounter. If only
    the bike helmet provided proper protection when I crash...

  13. Quoted message said:

    There's a report here:
    cnn.comindex.html

    The first thing to realize is that your risk is very low. Maybe 10 humans have been killed by
    mountain lions in California over the past 100 years. The last person killed was almost 20 years
    ago. Compare that to the number of humans killed by Ford Explorers.

    I've heard if confronted by a Mountain Lion one should use the bike as a shield/weapon and keep it
    between you and the cat.

    Can anyone confirm if this is sound advice?

    Chris Neary [email hidden]

    "Science, freedom, beauty, adventure: what more could you ask of life? Bicycling combined all the
    elements I loved" - Adapted from a quotation by Charles Lindbergh

  14. Brett Jaffee said:

    Stephen Harding <[email hidden]> wrote in news:3ffeee6e$1@news-
    1.oit.umass.edu:

    Quoted message said:


    Generally you won't have the time to think, since these critters are typically ambush type
    predators, hitting you from behind (a [censored] cat trait in general, and why people living in India
    where man eating tigers are present, wear masks with a face on the back of their heads).

    Was thinking the same thing. You could paint eyes on the back of your helmet, I guess.

    Quoted message said:

    Depends on terrain, but do you think you could accelerate up to 25 mph on a flat smooth trail
    pretty quick? I'll bet I could! Do you even attempt to run/pedal away?

    I'm sure a mountain lion can go much faster than that, and accelerate much quicker too.

    Quoted message said:

    Coincidentaly, was reading about mtn lions the day before this happened. Apparently they are
    powerful sprinters but not good over long distances (low lung capacity, or something like that).
    The advice was not to run. If I had a clear downhill path, I'd take it, though. On flat not
    ground...maybe not. I think the lion can accellerate a lot faster then you.

    Running away is probably the worst thing you could do -- giving chase triggers their predatory
    instincts, and will likely result in your death.

    Quoted message said:

    Do you ward

    Quoted message said:

    off the beast somehow with the bike? Abandon the bike and make a grab for a bike stick or stones?
    Stay perfectly still and hope "Big Tabby" goes away?

    Make yourself look as big as possible, which to me means, grab the bike. At least you could use it
    to fend off a pounce to some extent. Supposedly, crouching down further makes you look like a prey
    animal, so bending over to pick up sticks or rocks might be risky.

    This is the advice given by experts -- make yourself look as big as possible. Stand tall, and
    raise your bike over your head. In most cases the cat will walk away. If you are attacked, you
    might be able to use your bike as a shield. After that, it's pepper spray, rocks, and prayer.
    However, the first two usually take care of the situation. Mountain lion attacks are incredibly
    rare (though deadly).

    I posted on this earlier, but it looks like my post didn't go through. We had a brief power failure,
    so it probably got lost during that. Anyway, here's the best account I've found so far, from the SF
    Chronicle:

    tinyurl.com2vcwr

    A friend just emailed me this, from the LA Times (registration required):

    tinyurl.comx2j2

    Quoted message said:

    One suggestion I've never seen (perhaps because it's stupid), would be to ride right at the cat.
    After all, some prey animals, like deer, will try and defend themselves by charging, and I think
    the cats are cautious of that.

    You're right, this is stupid.

    Quoted message said:

    I guess that goes back to your original question...If came around the corder and you saw a cat
    standing there on a single track, what do you do? Turn around the other way and run for it
    (turning your back is probably a bad idea)? Or charge full speed toward the cat, and hopefully
    right by at?

    I've had three mountain lion encounters, two within a mile or two of this attack. In all three
    cases, the cats just walked away -- but with an air of nonchalance. This is kind of scary -- they
    don't appear afraid, or they look like they're trying not to.

    Matt O.

  15. Brett Jaffee said:

    Stephen Harding <[email hidden]> wrote in news:3ffeee6e$1@news-
    1.oit.umass.edu:

    Quoted message said:


    Generally you won't have the time to think, since these critters are typically ambush type
    predators, hitting you from behind (a [censored] cat trait in general, and why people living in India
    where man eating tigers are present, wear masks with a face on the back of their heads).

    Was thinking the same thing. You could paint eyes on the back of your helmet, I guess.

    Forwarded to Sheldon. <g,d&r>

    -B

  16. Don't knock it. In a nature film I saw once, a young lion was trying to each an ostrich egg. The egg
    was so large and smooth that it couldn't get its teeth around it well enough to crack it, and the
    lion eventually gave up.

    Paul DeGroot

    AJRBJR said:

    A bike helmet is probably like an egg shell to one of those cats.

    Andy

  17. Fri, 09 Jan 2004 19:31:59 GMT,
    <[email hidden]>, Brett Jaffee

    Quoted message said:

    I guess that goes back to your original question...If came around the corder and you saw a cat
    standing there on a single track, what do you do? Turn around the other way and run for it
    (turning your back is probably a bad idea)? Or charge full speed toward the cat, and hopefully
    right by at?

    Throw some lead at it. This situation calls for the serious stopping power you can only get with an
    American made large-bore magnum handgun. Women should never ride single track unarmed.

    Ron carries a bag of "Tabby Treats" and makes friends with them.

    Whatever you do, don't even think about squirting them with ammonia or making supplications to your
    chosen creator.

    (Welcome back SMH)
    --
    zk

  18. [email hidden] (AJRBJR) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    A bike helmet is probably like an egg shell to one of those cats.

    Actually more like the candy-coated shell of an M&M.

  19. Brett Jaffee said:

    that. I guess that goes back to your original question...If came around the corder and you saw a
    cat standing there on a single track, what do you do? Turn around the other way and run for it
    (turning your back is probably a bad idea)? Or charge full speed toward the cat, and hopefully
    right by at?

    We have mountain lions around here (western MA) but very elusive.

    There have been "encounters" though. One fellow came face to face with one on a trail and bent down
    to pick up a rock. He noted that whenever he looked away from the cat, it moved forward. When he
    bent down, it moved towards him.

    The moral of the story appeared to be to not run away; don't look away; and make yourself
    "look big".

    They stared at each other for a while, and then the cat moved off and away. A real scary experience
    being "prey"!

    SMH

  20. In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    Stephen Harding <[email hidden]> wrote in news:3ffeee6e$1@news-
    1.oit.umass.edu:

    Quoted message said:


    Generally you won't have the time to think, since these critters are typically ambush type
    predators, hitting you from behind (a [censored] cat trait in general, and why people living in India
    where man eating tigers are present, wear masks with a face on the back of their heads).

    Was thinking the same thing. You could paint eyes on the back of your helmet, I guess.

    Quoted message said:

    Depends on terrain, but do you think you could accelerate up to 25 mph on a flat smooth trail
    pretty quick? I'll bet I could! Do you even attempt to run/pedal away?

    Coincidentaly, was reading about mtn lions the day before this happened. Apparently they are
    powerful sprinters but not good over long distances (low lung capacity, or something like that).
    The advice was not to run. If I had a clear downhill path, I'd take it, though. On flat not
    ground...maybe not. I think the lion can accellerate a lot faster then you.

    Do you ward

    Quoted message said:

    off the beast somehow with the bike? Abandon the bike and make a grab for a bike stick or
    stones? Stay perfectly still and hope "Big Tabby" goes away?

    Make yourself look as big as possible, which to me means, grab the bike. At least you could use it
    to fend off a pounce to some extent. Supposedly, crouching down further makes you look like a prey
    animal, so bending over to pick up sticks or rocks might be risky.

    One suggestion I've never seen (perhaps because it's stupid), would be to ride right at the cat.
    After all, some prey animals, like deer, will try and defend themselves by charging, and I think
    the cats are cautious of that. I guess that goes back to your original question...If came around
    the corder and you saw a cat standing there on a single track, what do you do? Turn around the
    other way and run for it (turning your back is probably a bad idea)? Or charge full speed toward
    the cat, and hopefully right by at?

    And scream nice and loud while you're at it!

    --
    Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

    REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

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