MTB on road - just curious

"Saint" <giant2334@no_spam.com> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have never had a mountain bike at all so am totally
unfamiliar with

their

Quoted message said:

geometry and ride. However I think that, aesthetically,
some of them look really cool. I am (almost) sure I read
somewhere that if you fit one with

a

Quoted message said:

decent pair of less knobbly tyres, that they perform well
on the road.

I would have thought they weigh a bloody ton,
regardless of what tyres are on them, particularly
those with full sus?

Well my full sus XC bike weighed 25lbs and my Hardtail was
sub 24lb so hardly a ton - probably lighter than most
touring type bikes (but also probably a lot more expensive).
Few pounds heavier than a good road bike.

Suspension can be locked out.

Quoted message said:

Anyone any experience of riding one on road?

Did a fair bit on road with trailquesting and riding to /
from trails and they ride just fine but still not as fast as
a skinny tyred bike. If you have discs you can get a second
set of wheels made up with 700c rims and then there's no (or
very little) disadvantage.

Gearing is the biggest downside - mtb gears run out on the
road eventually - if you've got the legs.

Quoted message said:

Cheers

Quoted message said:

Saint

Quoted message said:

PS: Hope there are not too many positive replies to this
thread - I might want one next!! ;-)

Beware - a (very) lightweight full susser with suspension
that works, pedals well and locks out is going to set you
back the wrong side of £2.5k

Russ

Saint posted ...

Quoted message said:

I have never had a mountain bike at all so am totally
unfamiliar with their geometry and ride. However I think
that, aesthetically, some of them look really cool. I am
(almost) sure I read somewhere that if you fit one with a
decent pair of less knobbly tyres, that they perform well
on the road.

Yup, they can.

Quoted message said:

I would have thought they weigh a bloody ton,
regardless of what tyres are on them, particularly
those with full sus?

Nope. My hardtail weighs around 24 lb, my mates Full sus XC
bike weighs about 26 lb ...

Quoted message said:

Anyone any experience of riding one on road?

Yup, fine and dandy. Skinnier tyres and especially those
that are made in MTB wheel sizes specifically for the road,
are most excellent, and make a great deal of difference if
you just want to ride on-road.

--
Paul

(8(|) Homer rocks .. 😉

Saint said:

I have never had a mountain bike at all so am totally
unfamiliar with their geometry and ride. However I think
that, aesthetically, some of them look really cool. I am
(almost) sure I read somewhere that if you fit one with a
decent pair of less knobbly tyres, that they perform well
on the road.

I would have thought they weigh a bloody ton,
regardless of what tyres are on them, particularly
those with full sus?

Anyone any experience of riding one on road?

My Cannondale weighs 22lb with slick tyres nicked from the
touring bike (which, being a Thorn, also has 26" wheels).
It's fantastic up hills because of that huge bar to pull on
(and the 20" granny gear) but I get fed up of the hand
position after a while.

in message <[email hidden]>, Saint

('giant2334@no_spam.com') said:

I have never had a mountain bike at all so am totally
unfamiliar with their geometry and ride. However I think
that, aesthetically, some of them look really cool. I am
(almost) sure I read somewhere that if you fit one with a
decent pair of less knobbly tyres, that they perform well
on the road.

I would have thought they weigh a bloody ton,
regardless of what tyres are on them, particularly
those with full sus?

I regularly do short road distances on my mountain bikes
between off-road sections. I would not choose one for an all
road journey because my road bike is better at that, but if
you're going over a mix of surfaces a good mountain bike
copes better with road than a road bike - however good -
copes with rough off-road.

However...

I have a road bike - an unpretentious but not [censored] Raleigh,
about twelve years old. It weighs 28lbs[1]. I have a rigid
(no suspension) mountain bike, a Scott Sawtooth, about
fifteen years old. It weighs 31lbs. I have a full suspension
Klein Mantra with V brakes, about four years old. It weighs
30lbs. I have a full suspension Cannondale Jekyll with disk
brakes, less than one year old. It weighs 27lbs[2]. My
partner has a full suspension Santa Cruz Juliana with disk
brakes, less than one year old. It weighs 26lbs.

Now, granted, any one of those full suspension bikes is
worth at new prices at least four of the road bike. And if
you spent the sort of money on a road bike that the full
suspension bikes are worth you'd get a bike weighing 18lbs
or less. But it is just not true that a full suspension bike
needs to weigh 'a bloody ton'.

So why not ride one on the road?

First issue is tyres. Not only do big knobblies make a lot
of noise and wear much faster than smooth road tyres, they
also have a much larger contact patch. Given that I weigh
about 200lbs and I run my road bike tyres at 110psi my road
contact patch (allowing for the weight of the bike and
clothing) must be a smidgen over 2 square inches, or one
square inch per tyre. By contrast I run my knobblies around
60psi - less in muddy conditions - so the contact patch is
nearly double. That, obviously, increases drag, but it also
contributes to the second issue...

The second issue is handling. A good road bike has very
sharp handling. It responds instantly to very small steering
or position inputs. By contrast, a mountain bike has not to
be thrown off line by roots and rocks in the track. Its
angles are slacker, its trail greater, and its overall
directional stability much higher. The larger contact patch
further degrades the responsiveness.

The third issue is rigidity. No-one wants a really rigid
bike - except perhaps on the track - but on a smooth road
the more rigid a frame is the more of your energy is
transmitted at the contact patch. Even with the suspension
locked out a full suspension is less rigid than a rigid
frame. However, this argument can be overplayed. Even
slight unevennesses in the surface - as on poorly
maintained tarmac - throw a bike around to the extent that
some suspension actually improves the consistency of grip
at the contact patch, and consequently your ability to get
power down onto the road.

The final issue is gearing. Mountain bikes are geared very
low to cope with absurd gradients and difficult surfaces.
The top gear on a typical mountain bike will be about 30%
lower than the top gear a road bike. This means that your
feet have to spin more times for every flat tarmac mile
travelled, which is fine if you're a really good spinner but
most of us aren't.

[1] Sorry about the imperial weights. The only thing I've
got to weigh them on is the bathroom scale.
[2] Edinburgh Bicycle Co-op quote 'about 29lbs' for this
year's model. I weighed mine using the same

Quoted message said:

PS: Hope there are not too many positive replies to this
thread - I might want one next!! ;-)

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke)
jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗

X-no-archive: No, I'm not *that* naive.

"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Saint posted ...

Quoted message said:

I have never had a mountain bike at all so am totally
unfamiliar with their geometry and ride. However I think
that, aesthetically, some of them look really cool. I am
(almost) sure I read somewhere that if you fit one with
a decent pair of less knobbly tyres, that they perform
well on the road.

Yup, they can.

Quoted message said:

I would have thought they weigh a bloody ton,
regardless of what tyres are on them, particularly
those with full sus?

Nope. My hardtail weighs around 24 lb, my mates Full sus
XC bike weighs about 26 lb ...

Quoted message said:

Anyone any experience of riding one on road?

Yup, fine and dandy. Skinnier tyres and especially those
that are made in MTB wheel sizes specifically for the
road, are most excellent, and make a great deal of
difference if you just want to ride on-road.

--
Paul

(8(|) Homer rocks .. 😉

I have done literally hundreds of miles on a mtb with road
tyres. The gearing is great for those of us who want to look
at the scenery, and the position is comfortable. It is not a
road bike though- I still use my roadie for when I want to
get somewhere fast. My mtb is for when I want to enjoy
it.

For what it is worth, the charity ride I am arranging from
Ilfracombe to Plymouth across Devon- www.coast-coast.info -
I will be doing this 80 mile hilly ride on my Cannondale
Super V with road tyres on.

Simon

"Saint" <giant2334@no_spam.com> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have never had a mountain bike at all so am totally
unfamiliar with

their

Quoted message said:

geometry and ride. However I think that, aesthetically,
some of them look really cool. I am (almost) sure I read
somewhere that if you fit one with

a

Quoted message said:

decent pair of less knobbly tyres, that they perform well
on the road.

I would have thought they weigh a bloody ton,
regardless of what tyres are on them, particularly
those with full sus?

Anyone any experience of riding one on road?

I ride my GT all the time on the road - don't have a road
bike at the moment
:-) It doesn't have any suspension and I do have semi-slicks
:on it (slicker
on the front) so I tend to think of it as a general purpose
bike. It is a lot of fun usually. I say "usually" because it
wasn't much fun last night. Coming back over the "big hill"
from Burnley I was into the teeth of a hell of a headwind.
That on top of a stiff 4 mile climb was no joke - all I
could do was grit my teeth and dream of being on a skinny
tyred, lightweight dream machine!

As Russ says the downside can be the gears. Being very hilly
where I live I need a nice big gear for the downhills but
find myself spinning out in my biggest gear at around 30mph.

Have a look on eBay - loads of nice MTBs there!

Gavin

Saint said:

I have never had a mountain bike at all so am totally
unfamiliar with their geometry and ride. However I think
that, aesthetically, some of them look really cool. I am
(almost) sure I read somewhere that if you fit one with a
decent pair of less knobbly tyres, that they perform well
on the road.

I would have thought they weigh a bloody ton,
regardless of what tyres are on them, particularly
those with full sus?

Anyone any experience of riding one on road?

You can only expect general answers to these questions,
different road bike perform differently on the road as I
am sure you'll be aware. If you have a road machine and
would like an off road one, get one and use it primarily
for off road. Thats what I used to do. Its inevitable that
it will get used on the road but its performance really
ought to be optimised for mud plugging or stump jumping or
rock hopping do.

I hated riding my old mountain bike on the road, no where
near as comfortable or fast or smooth as my road bikes.

"Russ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Saint" <giant2334@no_spam.com> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have never had a mountain bike at all so am totally
unfamiliar with

their

Quoted message said:

geometry and ride. However I think that, aesthetically,
some of them

look

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

really cool. I am (almost) sure I read somewhere that if
you fit one

with

Quoted message said:

a

Quoted message said:

decent pair of less knobbly tyres, that they perform
well on the road.

I would have thought they weigh a bloody ton, regardless
of what tyres

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on them, particularly those with full sus?

Well my full sus XC bike weighed 25lbs and my Hardtail was
sub 24lb so hardly a ton - probably lighter than most
touring type bikes (but also probably a lot more
expensive). Few pounds heavier than a good road bike.

Suspension can be locked out.

Quoted message said:

Anyone any experience of riding one on road?

Did a fair bit on road with trailquesting and riding to /
from trails and they ride just fine but still not as fast
as a skinny tyred bike. If you have discs you can get a
second set of wheels made up with 700c rims and then
there's no (or very little) disadvantage.

Gearing is the biggest downside - mtb gears run out on
the road

eventually -

Quoted message said:

if you've got the legs.

Quoted message said:

Cheers

Quoted message said:

Saint

Quoted message said:

PS: Hope there are not too many positive replies to this
thread - I

might

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

want one next!! ;-)

Beware - a (very) lightweight full susser with suspension
that works,

pedals

Quoted message said:

well and locks out is going to set you back the wrong side
of £2.5k

Russ

Cheers for that Russ. I reckon I'll carry on dreaming about
a Trek Madone instead.....not that £2.5k would put a dent
in it. ;-(

Saint

"Saint" <giant2334@no_spam.com> wrote

Quoted message said:

I have never had a mountain bike at all so am totally
unfamiliar with

their

Quoted message said:

geometry and ride. However I think that, aesthetically,
some of them look really cool. I am (almost) sure I read
somewhere that if you fit one with

a

Quoted message said:

decent pair of less knobbly tyres, that they perform well
on the road.

It can. It is possible to get completely slick 25mm tyres of
the right diameter. I use 32mm touring tyres.

Quoted message said:

I would have thought they weigh a bloody ton,
regardless of what tyres are on them, particularly
those with full sus?

Mine is front suss only. It feels lighter on the move
than a Dawes Galaxy I tried a couple of weeks ago. It is
likely rear suss is a big disadvantage on the road (never
tried it tho'😉.

One advantage is that a mountain bike has a longer frame
than a conventional bike intended for drop bars. Using flat
bars on these frames makes them feel a bit short to me so
the extra length of the mtb gives me the reach without
resorting to an excessively long stem. It is better to
start too long and shorten the stem than to start short and
try to lengthen
it. The mtb layout gives slightly better braking too.

I don't see any point in drop bars unless ultimate speed is
the aim (there would also be some advantage in a road bike
then) but bar ends are useful.

"Saint" <giant2334@no_spam.com> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have never had a mountain bike at all so am totally
unfamiliar with

their

Quoted message said:

geometry and ride. However I think that, aesthetically,
some of them look really cool. I am (almost) sure I read
somewhere that if you fit one with

a

Quoted message said:

decent pair of less knobbly tyres, that they perform well
on the road.

I would have thought they weigh a bloody ton,
regardless of what tyres are on them, particularly
those with full sus?

Anyone any experience of riding one on road?

Cheers

Saint

PS: Hope there are not too many positive replies to this
thread - I might want one next!! ;-)

Well I'm young and penniless, so I just have the one bike.
It's a mountain bike but I cycle on roads, or at least
tarmaccy surfaces (cycle paths) most of the time, and it
suits me great.

I don't cycle to get places quickly... I do it for the
exercise and the freedom - for example being able to cut
through a park rather than having to go all around it. As a
result, I can do the journey to school (A levels...) more
quickly by bike.

I find it very comfortable. The frame is a perfect size for
me, and I don't have a problem with the way my hands are set
because I've got bar ends so that I can switch a bit when
necessary.

I've got front suspension. My last bike had no suspension
whatsoever and I can definitely notice the difference. Even
on the road it is a lot more comfortable to ride, it's a lot
smoother. I don't see how suspension at the back can help
with the ride though...

The technical stuff is all lost on me but the other posts
have more than enough in there lol :-)

--
Sue

DavidR said:

I don't see any point in drop bars unless ultimate speed
is the aim (there would also be some advantage in a road
bike then) but bar ends are useful.

Some of us find drop bars more comfortable even at
modest speeds. More hand positions, including a position
close to stem.

~PB

Russ said:

Gearing is the biggest downside - mtb gears run out on the
road eventually - if you've got the legs.

...Also tend to be widely spaced with big jumps between
gears. I think that's more of an issue than top gear being
too low. 42 x 11 is typical and not terribly low, anyway.
Cassette could be replaced, though.

At least basic rigid MTBs are strong and relatively
inexpensive compared to road bikes. I personally find them
enjoyable on-road with suitable tyres... for relatively
short distances, that is, after which I want the lightness
and handlebars of a road bike.

~PB

Saint said:

I have never had a mountain bike at all so am totally
unfamiliar with their geometry and ride. However I think
that, aesthetically, some of them look really cool. I am
(almost) sure I read somewhere that if you fit one with a
decent pair of less knobbly tyres, that they perform well
on the road.

Or, as the cycle business calls them, "hybrids with 26"
wheels"...

Diamond frame bikes are, on the whole, remarkably similar
beasts at the frame level so it's not too surprising that
they're fine on the roads with the right tyres, and even
good on the roads with the right gears too.

Quoted message said:

I would have thought they weigh a bloody ton,
regardless of what tyres are on them, particularly
those with full sus?

As with any other highly evolved bike, a lot of effort has
gone into making them lighter. A road racer at the same
price will be lighter, yes, but that doesn't mean MTBs weigh
huge amounts. A good full sus one would almost certainly
weight quite a bit less than my good full sus recumbent
tourer, yet despite its weight it's my vehicle of choice on
the roads (and aesthetically it looks really cool!).

Quoted message said:

PS: Hope there are not too many positive replies to this
thread - I might want one next!! ;-)

If you've already got something for the road then there
isn't much point in an MTB if you're not going to use it in
the dirt and/or rocks. The suspension is designed to soak up
big bumps[1] rather than ride especially efficiently over
lots of small ones like a true roadgoing suspension so you
can get much better suspension for the road if you look. And
aesthetically, if you want to look cooler than liquid helium
IMHO a sporty recumbent is better in that department as well
as more comfortable. Won't do rocky paths very well though!

Pete.

[1] XC bikes are more designed for lots of smaller bumps
rather than soaking up huge shocks like downhill bikes,
but compare the travel and design on an XC MTB to
something like a Moulton and it's clear there are very
different problems each are solving.

--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

but I get fed up of the hand position after a while.

Get some bar ends and put them on the INSIDE of your
brake levers.

--
David Brown :o)
kitemap.co.ukstackOpen ↗

David Brown :o) said:

Quoted message said:

but I get fed up of the hand position after a while.

Get some bar ends and put them on the INSIDE of your
brake levers.

That gives me an idea.....

Does anyone use two or more pairs of bar ends fitted to the
same bars?

~PB

David Brown :o) said:

Get some bar ends and put them on the INSIDE of your
brake levers.

Not enuff room on mine. I heart hacksaws...

--

Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================

Pete Biggs said:

That gives me an idea.....

Does anyone use two or more pairs of bar ends fitted to
the same bars?

You might consider the Newks pictured here
(kinetics.org.uk853 commuter.shtmlOpen ↗) to be
effectively that

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Saint
I have never had a mountain bike at all so am totally
unfamiliar with their geometry and ride. However I think
that, aesthetically, some of them look really cool. I am
(almost) sure I read somewhere that if you fit one with a
decent pair of less knobbly tyres, that they perform well
on the road.

I would have thought they weigh a bloody ton, regardless of
what tyres are on them, particularly those with full sus?

Anyone any experience of riding one on road?

Cheers

Saint

PS: Hope there are not too many positive replies to this
thread - I might want one next!! ;-)

Cycling Plus did an article on hybrid bikes and how they ride. One of them was the Marin Point Reyes which had been specifically tweaked to be a friendly road machine, even though it closely resembles a mountain bike. It had a triple-butted Aluminium frame, Carbon forks and a more sensible gear ratio (48/36/28) for riding on roads. They liked it, but it did cost nearly £1,000 :eek:

I'd go along with the advice that basically says Off-Road bikes should be ridden "off road", a happy compromise between the two is difficult for manufacturers to achieve.

"Saint" <giant2334@no_spam.com> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I have never had a mountain bike at all so am totally
unfamiliar with their geometry and ride. However I think
that, aesthetically, some of them look really cool. I am
(almost) sure I read somewhere that if you fit one with a
decent pair of less knobbly tyres, that they perform well
on the road.

I would have thought they weigh a bloody ton,
regardless of what tyres are on them, particularly
those with full sus?

Anyone any experience of riding one on road?

10 years or so ;+)

Your can't go far wrong with a light frame, front suspension
only, two sets of tyres (one slicks, 1 nobbly), mudguards
and racks if you need 'em. A bike for all seasons and most
situations.

z