Moving to Ergo

WTD said:

2. In researching Shimagnolo adapter options I have run across some
claims that while running 9s Ergo with a Campy rder and 9s Shimano hub
will work OK up to a point, it would still be better to use a
conversion cassette or something like the Shiftmate
(http://www.jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm) to get the best
possible shifting. Is that true or am I worrying too much? The
Shiftmate is relatively inexpensive (presuming it works) but
conversion cassettes are not. Cost is an issue, but I don't wan't to
come out of this with mediocre shifting. Any advice or direct
experiences with these options would be appreciated.

worry a bit .. i ran 9sp campag shifters with a 9sp shimano hub and it drove
me nuts. after about 6 weeks (of pop can shims and lots of tinkering) i
sold the wheel and built up a campag rear wheel. other people claim it's
the same, i dunno. ymmv really seems to apply here.

but that shiftmate looks pretty interesting. the conversion cassettes are
amazingly expensive and i didn't even consider them as an option. $40 for
the shiftmate i probably would have tried.
--
david reuteler
[email hidden]

David Reuteler said:

WTD said:

2. In researching Shimagnolo adapter options I have run across some
claims that while running 9s Ergo with a Campy rder and 9s Shimano hub
will work OK up to a point, it would still be better to use a
conversion cassette or something like the Shiftmate
(http://www.jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm) to get the best
possible shifting. Is that true or am I worrying too much? The
Shiftmate is relatively inexpensive (presuming it works) but
conversion cassettes are not. Cost is an issue, but I don't wan't to
come out of this with mediocre shifting. Any advice or direct
experiences with these options would be appreciated.

worry a bit .. i ran 9sp campag shifters with a 9sp shimano hub and it drove
me nuts. after about 6 weeks (of pop can shims and lots of tinkering) i
sold the wheel and built up a campag rear wheel. other people claim it's
the same, i dunno. ymmv really seems to apply here.

interesting. i don't notice much difference between the campy cassette
& the shimano cassette on the same bike. _but_ i /do/ notice a
difference between my record & veloce with a shimano cassette - the
record sucks, even when i use a shimano chain. the veloce is slick &
clean every time, just like a shimano shift. the record has sucked from
day one. the type of cassette doesn't seem to make a whit of
difference, provided the right chain is used. gotta use shimano with
shimano.

Quoted message said:

but that shiftmate looks pretty interesting. the conversion cassettes are
amazingly expensive and i didn't even consider them as an option. $40 for
the shiftmate i probably would have tried.

(WTD) said:

1. Campy is rapidly phasing out 9 speed (I would be buying '03 Centaur
to get the 9 speed version), with Shimano presumably to follow over
the next few years. I wonder if I would be better off getting 10
speed Ergos with an adapter to run a 9 speed cassette for now. I
don't particularly care about 10 speed vs. 9 speed but I do care about
parts availability and options over the long term. Should I be
concerned?

I can't answer any issues over availability, etc., but you might look
at this page-

http://www.hubbub.com/ergoleverswshim9.htm

An interesting bridge between 9 speed Shimano and 10 speed Campy that
keeps more options open down the road.

"WTD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

2. In researching Shimagnolo adapter options I have run across some
claims that while running 9s Ergo with a Campy rder and 9s Shimano hub
will work OK up to a point, it would still be better to use a
conversion cassette or something like the Shiftmate
(http://www.jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm) to get the best
possible shifting. Is that true or am I worrying too much? The
Shiftmate is relatively inexpensive (presuming it works) but
conversion cassettes are not.

I bought the Jtek Shiftmate a few weeks ago and it works perfectly. I added
Record Ergo shifters to my 9 speed Dura-Ace setup because the Shimano
brifters made my hands numb and I have always hated the exposed cables. It
works a treat on my DA 12-27 cassette and RD. You could get the cheapest
Campy 10s shifters, a Shiftmate and any 9speed Shimano cassette and
derailleur and it will work. I understand that Campy 10s derailleurs work
as is on Shimano 9 speed cassettes as well. So many options.

Tim McTeague

westrick-<< so my plan is to get Campagnolo Centaur 9s shifters, a Veloce long
cage rder, and a 9s Ultegra cassette. >><BR><BR>
<< 1. Campy is rapidly phasing out 9 speed (I would be buying '03 Centaur
to get the 9 speed version), with Shimano presumably to follow over
the next few years. I wonder if I would be better off getting 10
speed Ergos with an adapter to run a 9 speed cassette for now. >><BR><BR>

Not really, 8s cogsets still made but get a 10s ERGO, that also is compatible
with shimano 9s cogsets and chains. The difference in spacing of shimano 9s is
between Campagnolo 9s and 10s, so it works great with either.

<< 2. In researching Shimagnolo adapter options I have run across some
claims that while running 9s Ergo with a Campy rder and 9s Shimano hub
will work OK up to a point, it would still be better to use a
conversion cassette or something like the Shiftmate >><BR><BR>

Not true, we use Campagnolo shifters and rear ders all the time w/o any
doohickeys and it works great.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

(WTD) said:

1. Campy is rapidly phasing out 9 speed (I would be buying '03 Centaur
to get the 9 speed version), with Shimano presumably to follow over
the next few years. I wonder if I would be better off getting 10
speed Ergos with an adapter to run a 9 speed cassette for now. I
don't particularly care about 10 speed vs. 9 speed but I do care about
parts availability and options over the long term. Should I be
concerned?

I think that Peter Chisolm first tested using Campy 10, including
Campy derailleur, will shift Shimano 9 fine. I can confirm that it
works fine as well. When I go touring, I put a Shimano 12/27 cassette
on my 10sp Record drivetrain and it shifts fine. I need to increase
the tension of the rear derailleur cable and limit the inner travel of
the rear derailleur.

Should you get Campy 10 shifters, you've got a good chance of shifting
the Shimano 7sp cassette with your existing Shimano rear derailleur.

Paul Kopit <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(WTD) said:

1. Campy is rapidly phasing out 9 speed (I would be buying '03 Centaur
to get the 9 speed version), with Shimano presumably to follow over
the next few years. I wonder if I would be better off getting 10
speed Ergos with an adapter to run a 9 speed cassette for now. I
don't particularly care about 10 speed vs. 9 speed but I do care about
parts availability and options over the long term. Should I be
concerned?

I think that Peter Chisolm first tested using Campy 10, including
Campy derailleur, will shift Shimano 9 fine. I can confirm that it
works fine as well. When I go touring, I put a Shimano 12/27 cassette
on my 10sp Record drivetrain and it shifts fine. I need to increase
the tension of the rear derailleur cable and limit the inner travel of
the rear derailleur.

Should you get Campy 10 shifters, you've got a good chance of shifting
the Shimano 7sp cassette with your existing Shimano rear derailleur.

Interesting. I might try that before going to 9s. I have a 12/28 7s
now and am not sure my erratic, lumbering riding style will benefit a
lot from the tighter spacing of 9s 12/27. I would hate to forgo the
shiny new Campy rder though ;-)

jim beam said:

Quoted message said:

worry a bit .. i ran 9sp campag shifters with a 9sp shimano hub and it drove
me nuts. after about 6 weeks (of pop can shims and lots of tinkering) i
sold the wheel and built up a campag rear wheel. other people claim it's
the same, i dunno. ymmv really seems to apply here.

interesting. i don't notice much difference between the campy cassette
& the shimano cassette on the same bike. _but_ i /do/ notice a
difference between my record & veloce with a shimano cassette - the
record sucks, even when i use a shimano chain. the veloce is slick &
clean every time, just like a shimano shift. the record has sucked from
day one. the type of cassette doesn't seem to make a whit of
difference, provided the right chain is used. gotta use shimano with
shimano.

just fyi, i'm running 2002 record 9sp brifters to a centaur long-cage r/d and
at the time an ultegra hub w/ a 12-27sp ultegra cassette w/ either an SRAM
or shimano chain.
--
david reuteler
[email hidden]

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Time to abandon my 7 speed, bar end shifting Shimano set up on my old
Trek 2120 in favor of modern brake/shifter levers. I recently had to
replace the rear wheel with so I have a 8/9 speed hub currently
running the 7 speed cassette with a spacer.

I greatly prefer the ergonomics of the Campy shifters over Shimano STI
so my plan is to get Campagnolo Centaur 9s shifters, a Veloce long
cage rder, and a 9s Ultegra cassette. I understand that this
combination should work, but am having some doubts for the following
reasons:

1. Campy is rapidly phasing out 9 speed (I would be buying '03 Centaur
to get the 9 speed version), with Shimano presumably to follow over
the next few years. I wonder if I would be better off getting 10
speed Ergos with an adapter to run a 9 speed cassette for now. I
don't particularly care about 10 speed vs. 9 speed but I do care about
parts availability and options over the long term. Should I be
concerned?

Shimano makes low end groups that lag behind their high end groups,
so 9 speed will be around for a while. Campy makes no low end groups,
so they will probably phase out 9 well before shimano.
-------------
Alex

[email hidden] (WTD) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Paul Kopit <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(WTD) said:

1. Campy is rapidly phasing out 9 speed (I would be buying '03 Centaur
to get the 9 speed version), with Shimano presumably to follow over
the next few years. I wonder if I would be better off getting 10
speed Ergos with an adapter to run a 9 speed cassette for now. I
don't particularly care about 10 speed vs. 9 speed but I do care about
parts availability and options over the long term. Should I be
concerned?

I think that Peter Chisolm first tested using Campy 10, including
Campy derailleur, will shift Shimano 9 fine. I can confirm that it
works fine as well. When I go touring, I put a Shimano 12/27 cassette
on my 10sp Record drivetrain and it shifts fine. I need to increase
the tension of the rear derailleur cable and limit the inner travel of
the rear derailleur.

Should you get Campy 10 shifters, you've got a good chance of shifting
the Shimano 7sp cassette with your existing Shimano rear derailleur.

Interesting. I might try that before going to 9s. I have a 12/28 7s
now and am not sure my erratic, lumbering riding style will benefit a
lot from the tighter spacing of 9s 12/27. I would hate to forgo the
shiny new Campy rder though ;-)

According to the Quality Bike parts catalogs:
Campy 10 speed cog spacing is closer to Shimano 9 speed
cog spacing than 9 speed Campy. So try the 10s shifter on the 9 speed cogs
it'll work better than the 9 speed shifters. You are using the slop in the
system and the floating top pulley to compensate for the mismatch
in cable movement.

Campy 8 speed cog to cog spacing is identical to Shimano 7 speed.
So you could put the 8 speed cam in your campy shifters and use
your existing wheel and cogs, you just have an extra click.

Wheels MFG makes spacer kits to convert 8 speed shimano cassettes to
8s Campy spacing, lots of cheap 8s cassettes in the QBP catalog.

A problem for the class: has anyone put the left cam in the right
shifter ? Ergo/Simplex Retro Friction anyone ?

Scott Goldsmith
Next week: Ergoizing Valentino

Alex Rodriguez said:

Shimano makes low end groups that lag behind their high end groups,
so 9 speed will be around for a while. Campy makes no low end groups,
so they will probably phase out 9 well before shimano.

Bzzzt, thanks for playing, but Campy *does* make low end groups.
Campy's road groups, in descending order, are:
Record
Chorus
Centaur
Veloce
Mirage
Xenon

Even giving the benefit of the doubt and equating Chorus with Dura-Ace,
this list seems to have Campy going as far down as anything Shimano
sells for non-XMart bikes.

I've never seen anything below Veloce sold separately, though I've seen
Mirage OEM'd on Bianchis. I expect one could order Mirage through a
reliable LBS.

Further, the fact that all Campy nine-speed cassettes and nearly all
other Campy 9-speed parts are interchangeable means there is a vast
stock of usable NOS Campy 9-speed parts out there, for whatever Campy
9-speed system you've got. Just *try* to get parts for relatively
recent Shimano stuff (as I have) and see how far you get.

Mark (Veloce is a great bargain) Janeba

In article <LKsWc.304501$%_6.200857@attbi_s01>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Alex Rodriguez said:

Shimano makes low end groups that lag behind their high end groups,
so 9 speed will be around for a while. Campy makes no low end groups,
so they will probably phase out 9 well before shimano.

Bzzzt, thanks for playing, but Campy *does* make low end groups.
Campy's road groups, in descending order, are:
Record
Chorus
Centaur
Veloce
Mirage
Xenon
Even giving the benefit of the doubt and equating Chorus with Dura-Ace,
this list seems to have Campy going as far down as anything Shimano
sells for non-XMart bikes.
I've never seen anything below Veloce sold separately, though I've seen
Mirage OEM'd on Bianchis. I expect one could order Mirage through a
reliable LBS.
Further, the fact that all Campy nine-speed cassettes and nearly all
other Campy 9-speed parts are interchangeable means there is a vast
stock of usable NOS Campy 9-speed parts out there, for whatever Campy
9-speed system you've got. Just *try* to get parts for relatively
recent Shimano stuff (as I have) and see how far you get.

You have higher standards. 🙂 Shimano makes parts that go on sub $100
bikes. I've never seen Campy parts on a bike that cheap. All the groups
you mention would be considered high end by many folks. I'm not saying
Campy 9 won't be around for a while, just that Shimano 9 will be around longer.
I've seen shimano 6spd parts on the Xmart stores. I don't recall seeing
Campy 7, let alone 6 spd parts on any new bikes or in the stores.
--------------
Alex

Alex Rodriguez <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Time to abandon my 7 speed, bar end shifting Shimano set up on my old
Trek 2120 in favor of modern brake/shifter levers. I recently had to
replace the rear wheel with so I have a 8/9 speed hub currently
running the 7 speed cassette with a spacer.

I greatly prefer the ergonomics of the Campy shifters over Shimano STI
so my plan is to get Campagnolo Centaur 9s shifters, a Veloce long
cage rder, and a 9s Ultegra cassette. I understand that this
combination should work, but am having some doubts for the following
reasons:

1. Campy is rapidly phasing out 9 speed (I would be buying '03 Centaur
to get the 9 speed version), with Shimano presumably to follow over
the next few years. I wonder if I would be better off getting 10
speed Ergos with an adapter to run a 9 speed cassette for now. I
don't particularly care about 10 speed vs. 9 speed but I do care about
parts availability and options over the long term. Should I be
concerned?

Shimano makes low end groups that lag behind their high end groups,
so 9 speed will be around for a while. Campy makes no low end groups,
so they will probably phase out 9 well before shimano.
-------------
Alex

Actually Campy makes plenty of low end stuff - you just rarely see it
in the US. No LBS in my area carries anything below Chorus. It's
hard to get a hands on look at Centaur, let alone Mirage or Xenon. You
have to order it sight unseen. I was lucky to find a LBS that had a
stock bike with a Xenon, which was helpful in confirming that even
Campy plastic is still just plastic.

Alex Rodriguez <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Time to abandon my 7 speed, bar end shifting Shimano set up on my old
Trek 2120 in favor of modern brake/shifter levers. I recently had to
replace the rear wheel with so I have a 8/9 speed hub currently
running the 7 speed cassette with a spacer.

I greatly prefer the ergonomics of the Campy shifters over Shimano STI
so my plan is to get Campagnolo Centaur 9s shifters, a Veloce long
cage rder, and a 9s Ultegra cassette. I understand that this
combination should work, but am having some doubts for the following
reasons:

1. Campy is rapidly phasing out 9 speed (I would be buying '03 Centaur
to get the 9 speed version), with Shimano presumably to follow over
the next few years. I wonder if I would be better off getting 10
speed Ergos with an adapter to run a 9 speed cassette for now. I
don't particularly care about 10 speed vs. 9 speed but I do care about
parts availability and options over the long term. Should I be
concerned?

Shimano makes low end groups that lag behind their high end groups,
so 9 speed will be around for a while. Campy makes no low end groups,
so they will probably phase out 9 well before shimano.
-------------

I agree with this in part. For road groups, Shimano still sells
sora/tiagra which is 8 speed. So, I agree that shimano 9 will still be
around in the future, just on a *lower* level, e.g., 105/sora/tiagra
(which btw still works really well!)

As for Campy, they do make "lower" groups. Yes, Xenon and Mirage are
available as 9 speed. In fact, Campy still offers 9 speed for all
groups from Record to Xenon. The problem is most catalogs, e.g., mail
order/internet companies, only list Campy 10 stuff. This will happen
to shimano too as it ramps up sales of its ultegra 10 and soon 105
10.....

alex-<< Campy makes no low end groups,
so they will probably phase out 9 well before shimano. >><BR><BR>

'10 speed' does not high end make. Mirage, Veloce and even Xenon(OEM) can all
be defined as less expensive groups on par(superior?) to the shimano
equivalents, like Sora, Tiagra and 105.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

<< A problem for the class: has anyone put the left cam in the right
shifter ? Ergo/Simplex Retro Friction anyone ? >><BR><BR>

Since it is 'mirror image', it cannot be done.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

[email hidden] (bfd) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Alex Rodriguez <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Time to abandon my 7 speed, bar end shifting Shimano set up on my old
Trek 2120 in favor of modern brake/shifter levers. I recently had to
replace the rear wheel with so I have a 8/9 speed hub currently
running the 7 speed cassette with a spacer.

I greatly prefer the ergonomics of the Campy shifters over Shimano STI
so my plan is to get Campagnolo Centaur 9s shifters, a Veloce long
cage rder, and a 9s Ultegra cassette. I understand that this
combination should work, but am having some doubts for the following
reasons:

1. Campy is rapidly phasing out 9 speed (I would be buying '03 Centaur
to get the 9 speed version), with Shimano presumably to follow over
the next few years. I wonder if I would be better off getting 10
speed Ergos with an adapter to run a 9 speed cassette for now. I
don't particularly care about 10 speed vs. 9 speed but I do care about
parts availability and options over the long term. Should I be
concerned?

Shimano makes low end groups that lag behind their high end groups,
so 9 speed will be around for a while. Campy makes no low end groups,
so they will probably phase out 9 well before shimano.
-------------

I agree with this in part. For road groups, Shimano still sells
sora/tiagra which is 8 speed. So, I agree that shimano 9 will still be
around in the future, just on a *lower* level, e.g., 105/sora/tiagra
(which btw still works really well!)

As for Campy, they do make "lower" groups. Yes, Xenon and Mirage are
available as 9 speed. In fact, Campy still offers 9 speed for all
groups from Record to Xenon. The problem is most catalogs, e.g., mail
order/internet companies, only list Campy 10 stuff. This will happen
to shimano too as it ramps up sales of its ultegra 10 and soon 105
10.....

Tiagra is actually a 9 speed group . I have a mix of tiagra & 105 on
my primary ride. My plan was to upgrage to Campy when the stuff
crapped out . Now i'm in my second season & going strong. The shifting
is very good but my previous bike was Athena downtube friction w/
regina freewheel. Anything is a big improvement. I'm still going Campy
when the time is right.
: >😉

[email hidden] (WTD) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Time to abandon my 7 speed, bar end shifting Shimano set up on my old
Trek 2120 in favor of modern brake/shifter levers. I recently had to
replace the rear wheel with so I have a 8/9 speed hub currently
running the 7 speed cassette with a spacer.

I greatly prefer the ergonomics of the Campy shifters over Shimano STI
so my plan is to get Campagnolo Centaur 9s shifters, a Veloce long
cage rder, and a 9s Ultegra cassette. I understand that this
combination should work, but am having some doubts for the following
reasons:

1. Campy is rapidly phasing out 9 speed (I would be buying '03 Centaur
to get the 9 speed version), with Shimano presumably to follow over
the next few years. I wonder if I would be better off getting 10
speed Ergos with an adapter to run a 9 speed cassette for now. I
don't particularly care about 10 speed vs. 9 speed but I do care about
parts availability and options over the long term. Should I be
concerned?

2. In researching Shimagnolo adapter options I have run across some
claims that while running 9s Ergo with a Campy rder and 9s Shimano hub
will work OK up to a point, it would still be better to use a
conversion cassette or something like the Shiftmate
(http://www.jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm) to get the best
possible shifting. Is that true or am I worrying too much? The
Shiftmate is relatively inexpensive (presuming it works) but
conversion cassettes are not. Cost is an issue, but I don't wan't to
come out of this with mediocre shifting. Any advice or direct
experiences with these options would be appreciated.

I use 10spd ergo with 9spd cranks, Ultegra and Centaur FD, Shimano
(13-25) cassette and both Ultegra (long cage) and Centaur (medium
cage) 10spd RD. I wired the Ultegra on the opposite side as described
on the hubbub page. I switched the derailleurs to Centaur 10 only
because I got a good deal on them. I use the limit screws to control
RD movement. All combos worked fine with quick shifts up and down and
really no fussing around. I have also used a American Classic 10spd
with the centaur and glad to report after small adjustment it works
just perfectly as well. AC Cassette was $65 on sale from Cambria. For
some reason cassettes have gone through the roof so I otherwise to
stick to replacing cogs on what was originally a 105 spd cassette. I
DO have to keep the chain and cables clean but I think this applies in
any situation. If you're in northern MA you're welcome to check out
the drivetrain yourself.

I run 9spd Ergo with Racing Triple rdr and 9spd dura ace cogs.I replaced one
shimano spacer with a 9spd campy spacer. Shifts great.
Also have a bike with 10spd ergos and 9spd xtr rdr and 9spd shimano cogs. it
shifts well also. I had to change the cable on the rdr.
B

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