Moving from Speedplay -- pedal rec's pls

On Thu, 31 May 2007 22:01:14 +0000 (UTC), Chris Menzel
<[email hidden]> concluded:

Quoted message said:

I'd very much appreciate recommendations of pedals that combine a
reasonably wide platform with a reasonable degree of free (or close to
it) float.

All Crank Brothers pedals have six degrees of rotational float.
All models but the "Eggbeaters" have platforms. They all use the
same cleat and bomb proof eggbeater design.

The "Quatro" is their road pedal.
If you want ultra wide downhill style pedals, they got those and the
more modest width "Candy" and "Smarty" pedals in colours.
--
zk

On Thu, 31 May 2007 22:07:55 -0700, Zoot Katz <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 31 May 2007 22:01:14 +0000 (UTC), Chris Menzel
<[email hidden]> concluded:

Quoted message said:

I'd very much appreciate recommendations of pedals that combine a
reasonably wide platform with a reasonable degree of free (or close to
it) float.

All Crank Brothers pedals have six degrees of rotational float.
All models but the "Eggbeaters" have platforms. They all use the
same cleat and bomb proof eggbeater design.

The "Quatro" is their road pedal.
If you want ultra wide downhill style pedals, they got those and the
more modest width "Candy" and "Smarty" pedals in colours.

or wider Acid model.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Zoot Katz said:

On Thu, 31 May 2007 22:01:14 +0000 (UTC), Chris Menzel
<[email hidden]> concluded:

Quoted message said:

I'd very much appreciate recommendations of pedals that combine a
reasonably wide platform with a reasonable degree of free (or close to
it) float.

All Crank Brothers pedals have six degrees of rotational float.
All models but the "Eggbeaters" have platforms. They all use the
same cleat and bomb proof eggbeater design.

The "Quatro" is their road pedal.
If you want ultra wide downhill style pedals, they got those and the
more modest width "Candy" and "Smarty" pedals in colours.

As someone who has recently moved to Crank Bros pedals in a big way
(needed cyclocrossing mud clearance) I'd say the Candy is a good choice,
though the Quattro has a narrower Q-factor and a rather large platform
which is well-suited to road shoes (nice touch: the 3-bolt road cleat
comes with a rubber surround that would seem to convert a road shoe to a
semi-walkable shoe).

I find that the platformed pedals (I have Candy, Smarty, and Egg Beater
sets) offer a little easier entry and exit, but that may be just me: I
find I'm a little prone to missing the entry on the platformless Egg
Beaters. There's also a weird issue with the Egg Beaters (but again, I
don't think with the Smarty and Candy models) that I think is affecting
my full-speed running dismounts, but I doubt you are looking for a pedal
that allows full-speed running dismounts.

For all that, if I wasn't riding cyclocross, I doubt I would ever have
swapped out my SPDs. Except for mediocre mud clearance and problems with
entry when the cleat and pedal are fouled, SPDs are cheap and great.

You might find the Egg Beaters have a bit more lateral play than the
platformed ones, but I'd have to check that. The mechanism is incredibly
elegant, and I have found entry and release butter-smooth.

BTW, the big difference between the Candy and Smarty pedals is the
bearings. I think the Candy uses cartridge bearings, and a rebuild kit
is available. The Smarty uses cup-and-cone bearings.

Oh, and tasteful replaceable rails on the Smartys in several fetching
colours.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Zoot Katz said:

On Thu, 31 May 2007 22:01:14 +0000 (UTC), Chris Menzel
<[email hidden]> concluded:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd very much appreciate recommendations of pedals that combine a
reasonably wide platform with a reasonable degree of free (or close to
it) float.

Quoted message said:

All Crank Brothers pedals have six degrees of rotational float.
All models but the "Eggbeaters" have platforms. They all use the
same cleat and bomb proof eggbeater design.

Quoted message said:

The "Quatro" is their road pedal.
If you want ultra wide downhill style pedals, they got those and the
more modest width "Candy" and "Smarty" pedals in colours.

As someone who has recently moved to Crank Bros pedals in a big way
(needed cyclocrossing mud clearance) I'd say the Candy is a good choice,
though the Quattro has a narrower Q-factor and a rather large platform
which is well-suited to road shoes (nice touch: the 3-bolt road cleat
comes with a rubber surround that would seem to convert a road shoe to a
semi-walkable shoe).

I find that the platformed pedals (I have Candy, Smarty, and Egg Beater
sets) offer a little easier entry and exit, but that may be just me: I
find I'm a little prone to missing the entry on the platformless Egg
Beaters. There's also a weird issue with the Egg Beaters (but again, I
don't think with the Smarty and Candy models) that I think is affecting
my full-speed running dismounts, but I doubt you are looking for a pedal
that allows full-speed running dismounts.

For all that, if I wasn't riding cyclocross, I doubt I would ever have
swapped out my SPDs. Except for mediocre mud clearance and problems with
entry when the cleat and pedal are fouled, SPDs are cheap and great.

You might find the Egg Beaters have a bit more lateral play than the
platformed ones, but I'd have to check that. The mechanism is incredibly
elegant, and I have found entry and release butter-smooth.

BTW, the big difference between the Candy and Smarty pedals is the
bearings. I think the Candy uses cartridge bearings, and a rebuild kit
is available. The Smarty uses cup-and-cone bearings.

Oh, and tasteful replaceable rails on the Smartys in several fetching
colours.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden]://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Ryan, is there any functional difference between Candy and Smarty? Do
you think there would be any advantage to any of the pedals for
someone like me who rides road bike w/ MTB shoes?

Quoted message said:

...is there any functional difference between Candy and Smarty?

Yes, the Smarty pedals have junk bearings. Get some on-sale yellow Candies
and be happy.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Camilo said:

On May 31, 10:16 pm, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You might find the Egg Beaters have a bit more lateral play than the
platformed ones, but I'd have to check that. The mechanism is incredibly
elegant, and I have found entry and release butter-smooth.

BTW, the big difference between the Candy and Smarty pedals is the
bearings. I think the Candy uses cartridge bearings, and a rebuild kit
is available. The Smarty uses cup-and-cone bearings.

Oh, and tasteful replaceable rails on the Smartys in several fetching
colours.

Quoted message said:

Ryan, is there any functional difference between Candy and Smarty? Do
you think there would be any advantage to any of the pedals for
someone like me who rides road bike w/ MTB shoes?

The Candy and Smarty are very similar pedals except that the Smarty has
a cheaper bearing configuration.

Regarding the advantage, relative to what? If you have a road bike, and
you already have SPDs, I'd stay with those. If you have flat pedals, I
would say by all means get SPDs, or if you prefer, Crank Bros pedals.
Clipless pedals are addictive.

Like I say, the Egg Beaters are light, and some people just love them,
but I find that they are a little more trouble to get into, while the
Candy/Smarty pedals are dead easy. This may just reflect the fact that
the platformed pedals work more like the SPDs I have so much experience
with.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Camilo said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

You might find the Egg Beaters have a bit more lateral play than the
platformed ones, but I'd have to check that. The mechanism is incredibly
elegant, and I have found entry and release butter-smooth.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

BTW, the big difference between the Candy and Smarty pedals is the
bearings. I think the Candy uses cartridge bearings, and a rebuild kit
is available. The Smarty uses cup-and-cone bearings.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Oh, and tasteful replaceable rails on the Smartys in several fetching
colours.

Ryan, is there any functional difference between Candy and Smarty? Do
you think there would be any advantage to any of the pedals for
someone like me who rides road bike w/ MTB shoes?

The Candy and Smarty are very similar pedals except that the Smarty has
a cheaper bearing configuration.

Regarding the advantage, relative to what? If you have a road bike, and
you already have SPDs, I'd stay with those. If you have flat pedals, I
would say by all means get SPDs, or if you prefer, Crank Bros pedals.
Clipless pedals are addictive.

Like I say, the Egg Beaters are light, and some people just love them,
but I find that they are a little more trouble to get into, while the
Candy/Smarty pedals are dead easy. This may just reflect the fact that
the platformed pedals work more like the SPDs I have so much experience
with.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden]://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Yea, I've been using SPD's for 10-12 years now. I have Shimano spd
road pedals on my road bike and some very inexpensive doublesided
pedals on my MTB. I'm happy with both pedals, but I'm thinking at
some point they will wear out (both are original). Just thinking of
changing systems when they wear out.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Camilo said:

On Jun 1, 6:04 pm, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Regarding the advantage, relative to what? If you have a road bike, and
you already have SPDs, I'd stay with those. If you have flat pedals, I
would say by all means get SPDs, or if you prefer, Crank Bros pedals.
Clipless pedals are addictive.

Like I say, the Egg Beaters are light, and some people just love them,
but I find that they are a little more trouble to get into, while the
Candy/Smarty pedals are dead easy. This may just reflect the fact that
the platformed pedals work more like the SPDs I have so much experience
with.

Quoted message said:

Yea, I've been using SPD's for 10-12 years now. I have Shimano spd
road pedals on my road bike and some very inexpensive doublesided
pedals on my MTB. I'm happy with both pedals, but I'm thinking at
some point they will wear out (both are original). Just thinking of
changing systems when they wear out.

SPDs have a lot to recommend them. Unless you have a problem that they
aren't solving, or desperately crave novelty, I'd stay there. Indeed,
the only change I'd make to your present setup would be to dump the SPD
road pedals and use double-sided pedals on your road bike.

If that offends your sensibilities, then yes, Crank Bros. offer several
marketed-to-roadies double-sided pedals, and a special "road" cleat that
bolts right onto a 3-bolt Look pattern, and makes such shoes moderately
walkable.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Quoted message said:

About the only ill effects I'm experiencing after recovering from a
fairly nasty injury is some weakness in my foot around the ball and big
toe -- due, I'm told, to trauma to the sciatic nerve during surgery.
This causes me to put undue pressure on the outside of my foot while
pedalling and, with Speedplay's small platform, over time I've put a
dent in the bottom of my shoe where it meets the edge of the pedal. So
my foot is now pronating (or supinating -- can't keep those straight)
while I'm pedalling and I'm losing power, as some of the force from my
leg is being channeled to the side instead of being directed straight
down.

I could use a shim, of course, but I think a better long-term solution
is simply to move to a wider platform pedal. However, I really like the
free float of my Speedplays; my feet always felt angled just right.
Hence: I'd very much appreciate recommendations of pedals that combine a
reasonably wide platform with a reasonable degree of free (or close to
it) float.

I don't think you need a new pedal system, but perhaps a new pair of shoes.
Speedplay cleats use the 3-bolt "Look"-style mounting configuration, which
offers a dramatically-wider base of support than, say, SPD or Crank Brothers
or any other system using just 2 bolts.

Besides, why mess with something that works? You've said that you really
like the Speedplays, and I don't think you'll find posts from anyone else
saying that they caused them problems for the reasons you listed.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Camilo said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

Regarding the advantage, relative to what? If you have a road bike, and
you already have SPDs, I'd stay with those. If you have flat pedals, I
would say by all means get SPDs, or if you prefer, Crank Bros pedals.
Clipless pedals are addictive.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Like I say, the Egg Beaters are light, and some people just love them,
but I find that they are a little more trouble to get into, while the
Candy/Smarty pedals are dead easy. This may just reflect the fact that
the platformed pedals work more like the SPDs I have so much experience
with.

Yea, I've been using SPD's for 10-12 years now. I have Shimano spd
road pedals on my road bike and some very inexpensive doublesided
pedals on my MTB. I'm happy with both pedals, but I'm thinking at
some point they will wear out (both are original). Just thinking of
changing systems when they wear out.

SPDs have a lot to recommend them. Unless you have a problem that they
aren't solving, or desperately crave novelty, I'd stay there. Indeed,
the only change I'd make to your present setup would be to dump the SPD
road pedals and use double-sided pedals on your road bike.

If that offends your sensibilities, then yes, Crank Bros. offer several
marketed-to-roadies double-sided pedals, and a special "road" cleat that
bolts right onto a 3-bolt Look pattern, and makes such shoes moderately
walkable.

Thanks Ryan. So far, I have no reason to get away from the SPD
system, just looking ahead to 2-bolt recessed cleat options when the
time comes to replace the pedals. I do like my decent quality MTB
shoes on the road bike just for the (1) walkability and (2) I only
need one set of cycling shoes for MTB and road.

I don't have any reason to change from SPD - but is there some way
that SPD is actually better than the Crank Bros "2 bolt" cleat and
pedals?

Interestingly, I find my shimano SPD road pedals easier to use than
the double sided SPD pedals on my MTB. Why? I have the "flip and
clip" well ingrained into my muscle memory. I think it goes way back
to the day of toeclips and straps - we all had the flip and slide-in
down pat, no? So transitioning to the flip and clip with the SPD road
pedals was a breeze. When I'm using my 2 sided MTB pedals,
theoretically, you just put your foot on the pedal and clip in, but
for me, I often don't put my foot right where it belongs, and then I
have to grope a bit to click in. With the road pedals, I "know"
excacly where the cleat is when I flip the pedal.

It also is probably because I put about 10X more time on my road bike
than my MTB. For example, this past month I put over 25 hours on the
roadie, and about 3 on the MTB.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Camilo said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Camilo said:

On Jun 1, 6:04 pm, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

SPDs have a lot to recommend them. Unless you have a problem that they
aren't solving, or desperately crave novelty, I'd stay there. Indeed,
the only change I'd make to your present setup would be to dump the SPD
road pedals and use double-sided pedals on your road bike.

If that offends your sensibilities, then yes, Crank Bros. offer several
marketed-to-roadies double-sided pedals, and a special "road" cleat that
bolts right onto a 3-bolt Look pattern, and makes such shoes moderately
walkable.

Quoted message said:

I don't have any reason to change from SPD - but is there some way
that SPD is actually better than the Crank Bros "2 bolt" cleat and
pedals?

Hm. The SPDs use a steel cleat while the Crank Bros cleats are brass
(they also make a "tougher" cleat, which is made of harder brass...). I
haven't enough experience with Crank Bros cleats to discuss the wear
issues, but with the SPDs, I have broken several pedals but never worn
out a cleat (I generally had at least two and sometimes three sets of
shoes on the go, so cleat wear was spread out accordingly. But I also
had two to four sets of pedals on the go as well).

I think the fact that SPDs are widely available and very cheap is a big
plus in their favour, but I gather that either the better SPDs or most
of the Crank Bros pedals are within your budget, and for comparable
nice-level pedals, they're pretty close in price.

The two pedals do have a slightly different feel on entry and exit.
After a brief familiarization, I think the Crank Bros pedals feel nicer,
but it's not enough to matter, could be pure placebo effect, and is
almost certainly a matter of taste. Which is to say, you might like the
SPDs more.

The SPDs also have a roll-out-to-the-side release mode with the
multi-release cleat, but I gather in practice that's sort of an MTBer's
crash-release mode. In practice, the Crank Bros pedals seem to be both
secure when engaged and yet they release quite quickly when I need to.

Quoted message said:

Interestingly, I find my shimano SPD road pedals easier to use than
the double sided SPD pedals on my MTB. Why? I have the "flip and
clip" well ingrained into my muscle memory.

Quoted message said:

It also is probably because I put about 10X more time on my road bike
than my MTB. For example, this past month I put over 25 hours on the
roadie, and about 3 on the MTB.

Heh. Then for you, I wouldn't bother with double-release cleats!

I understand the temptation of the new. I should say that some of the
high-end SPD designs are now very light and almost elegant. The 540 has
quite the reputation as a great pedal.

Oh, and here's one advantage of the SPD if you like: the double sided
pedals are essentially two fully independent clip-in mechanisms, so if
one fails (as has happened to me on a couple of pedals) the other side
is still available for use. The Egg Beater design essentially uses a
single spring and the same wing-bodies are used for clip-in on any side.
That said, I've only ever heard of a single wing bar getting bent, and
that doesn't take out the whole pedal either.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Ryan Cousineau said:

The SPDs also have a roll-out-to-the-side release mode with the
multi-release cleat, but I gather in practice that's sort of an MTBer's
crash-release mode.

Oh, is that what those cleats are for? That could've been useful. When
I used to use SPDs, I had a knack for going over the bars while still
clipped in. I'm told it was fun to watch, although I can't say I got
much enjoyment out of them.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article <[email hidden]>,

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Hm. The SPDs use a steel cleat while the Crank Bros cleats are brass
(they also make a "tougher" cleat, which is made of harder brass...). I
haven't enough experience with Crank Bros cleats to discuss the wear
issues, but with the SPDs, I have broken several pedals but never worn
out a cleat (I generally had at least two and sometimes three sets of
shoes on the go, so cleat wear was spread out accordingly. But I also
had two to four sets of pedals on the go as well).

The Crank brothers cleats wear out much more quickly than the SPD
cleats and when they wear out they crack and break. If you're a
long way from home, it's not a bad idea to carry a spare cleat.

Also, there have been some problems with design flaws in the
early models of the Candy pedal where the bearings sort of
self-destruct. I've had this happen with one set of pedals, but
all the others are going strong.

Given all that I really like Crank Brothers pedals for the most
part, but if you're happy with SPD's ( I wasn't), I don't see a
compelling reason not to stick with them.

_ Booker C. Bense

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Booker C. Bense bbense+rec.bicycles.misc.Jun. said:

The Crank brothers cleats wear out much more quickly than the SPD
cleats and when they wear out they crack and break. If you're a
long way from home, it's not a bad idea to carry a spare cleat.

I've never had an EB cleat crack on me. I've always had enough warning
when they start to wear out because I start to get unintentional pull
outs while riding. It happens intermittently enough at first that you
can still complete a few centuries without too much aggravation. They
generally wear out at around 3500 miles of mostly road riding.