After some back of the knee and hamstring pain I have decided to move my cleats forward. My setback has my seat all the way forward on its rails, and my seat height is as low as it can go without bothering the front of my knees. Question is, if the cleats are moved forward, this would put me ahead of KOPS. Should I make a corresponding change to seat height or should I move the seat back? If I slide the seat back the same amount as I pushed the cleats forward wouldn't this all just shift everything back a bit and place more weight on my butt? Would the cleat forward activate more calf eventhough Knee relative to pedal has not changed?
"Craig B" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
After some back of the knee and hamstring pain I have decided to move my cleats forward. My setback has my seat all the way forward on its rails, and my seat height is as low as it can go without bothering the front of my knees. Question is, if the cleats are moved forward, this would put me ahead of KOPS. Should I make a corresponding change to seat height or should I move the seat back? If I slide the seat back the same amount as I pushed the cleats forward wouldn't this all just shift everything back a bit and place more weight on my butt? Would the cleat forward activate more calf eventhough Knee relative to pedal has not changed?
After some back of the knee and hamstring pain I have decided to move my cleats forward. My setback has my seat all the way forward on its rails, and my seat height is as low as it can go without bothering the front of my knees. Question is, if the cleats are moved forward, this would put me ahead of KOPS. Should I make a corresponding change to seat height or should I move the seat back? If I slide the seat back the same amount as I pushed the cleats forward wouldn't this all just shift everything back a bit and place more weight on my butt? Would the cleat forward activate more calf eventhough Knee relative to pedal has not changed?
Moving the cleats forward will actually push you BACK from KOPS.
Watch out you don't stress your achilles tendons when you move your cleats fwd. Move a little at a time. Bob C
"Craig B" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
After some back of the knee and hamstring pain I have decided to move my cleats forward. My setback has my seat all the way forward on its rails, and my seat height is as low as it can go without bothering the front of my knees. Question is, if the cleats are moved forward, this would put me ahead of KOPS. Should I make a corresponding change to seat height or should I move the seat back? If I slide the seat back the same amount as I pushed the cleats forward wouldn't this all just shift everything back a bit and place more weight on my butt? Would the cleat forward activate more calf eventhough Knee relative to pedal has not changed?
After some back of the knee and hamstring pain I have decided to move my cleats forward. My setback has my seat all the way forward on its rails, and my seat height is as low as it can go without bothering the front of my knees. Question is, if the cleats are moved forward, this would put me ahead of KOPS. Should I make a corresponding change to seat height or should I move the seat back? If I slide the seat back the same amount as I pushed the cleats forward wouldn't this all just shift everything back a bit and place more weight on my butt? Would the cleat forward activate more calf eventhough Knee relative to pedal has not changed?
Moving the cleats forward will actually push you BACK from KOPS.
The knee position remains the same it is the foot and lower leg which are affected by cleat position.
After some back of the knee and hamstring pain I have decided to move my cleats forward. My setback has my seat all the way forward on its rails, and my seat height is as low as it can go without bothering the front of my knees. Question is, if the cleats are moved forward, this would put me ahead of KOPS. Should I make a corresponding change to seat height or should I move the seat back? If I slide the seat back the same amount as I pushed the cleats forward wouldn't this all just shift everything back a bit and place more weight on my butt? Would the cleat forward activate more calf eventhough Knee relative to pedal has not changed?
Moving the cleats forward will actually push you BACK from KOPS.
The knee position remains the same it is the foot and lower leg which are affected by cleat position.
Yes that's technically true, but it does change the torso-to-upper-leg-angle slightly, as if one had moved one's seat *forward* a little bit (not back, as Sorni was implying with the KOPS reference). Even if the knee position relative to centre bracket is unchanged, the new angle will cause different loadings on the leg muscles and knees and this will be felt to a greater or lesser degree, depending on how well your knees behave in general.
I moved my cleats *back* on my shoes and got a much more restful riding position, but started getting slight knee pain as well. I have now shifted my seat forward approx. 8 mm to get back to the original torso-leg angle and problems have disappeared. Of course to get same arm stretch forwards, I now have to choose between increasing my handlebar stem length from 120 to 130 mm or cheating a bit by sawing 1 cm off my steerer tube to drop the bars a bit.
The knee position remains the same it is the foot and lower leg which are affected by cleat position.
Yes that's technically true, but it does change the torso-to-upper-leg-angle slightly, as if one had moved one's seat *forward* a little bit (not back, as Sorni was implying with the KOPS reference). Even if the knee position relative to centre bracket is unchanged, the new angle will cause different loadings on the leg muscles and knees and this will be felt to a greater or lesser degree, depending on how well your knees behave in general.
I moved my cleats *back* on my shoes and got a much more restful riding position, but started getting slight knee pain as well. I have now shifted my seat forward approx. 8 mm to get back to the original torso-leg angle and problems have disappeared. Of course to get same arm stretch forwards, I now have to choose between increasing my handlebar stem length from 120 to 130 mm or cheating a bit by sawing 1 cm off my steerer tube to drop the bars a bit.
The knee pain is most probably due to over extension, a slight lowering of the saddle would have left the knee more bent in its lower position so reducing femur rotation. It is the femur rotation which seems to upset the proper functioning of the knee during cycling. Generally a bad move to lower handlebars except in short distance racing. Try the lowered seat position.
The knee position remains the same it is the foot and lower leg which are affected by cleat position.
Yes that's technically true, but it does change the torso-to-upper-leg-angle slightly, as if one had moved one's seat *forward* a little bit (not back, as Sorni was implying with the KOPS reference). Even if the knee position relative to centre bracket is unchanged, the new angle will cause different loadings on the leg muscles and knees and this will be felt to a greater or lesser degree, depending on how well your knees behave in general.
I moved my cleats *back* on my shoes and got a much more restful riding position, but started getting slight knee pain as well. I have now shifted my seat forward approx. 8 mm to get back to the original torso-leg angle and problems have disappeared. Of course to get same arm stretch forwards, I now have to choose between increasing my handlebar stem length from 120 to 130 mm or cheating a bit by sawing 1 cm off my steerer tube to drop the bars a bit.
The knee pain is most probably due to over extension, a slight lowering of the saddle would have left the knee more bent in its lower position so reducing femur rotation. It is the femur rotation which seems to upset the proper functioning of the knee during cycling. Generally a bad move to lower handlebars except in short distance racing. Try the lowered seat position.
Trevor
Trevor, your idea works in my case. Moving the seat forward as I did also had the effect of lowering the seat relative to the centre bracket by about 3 mm. More or less; I didn't do the trig on it yet.
I rode this way for about 50 km today, pedalling mostly at 105-110 cadence with no trouble at all. Felt too good to be true so I raised the seat that 3 mm and got that twinge across the back of the knee again, after only 5 km. So, back down with the seat again . . .
BTW what's _your_ view of what constitutes correct seat height? Where one can just rest the heel on the pedal without rotating hips? Or even lower than that?
(this might spark of a ton of postings but it'll be interesting to see what comes in)
Trevor, your idea works in my case. Moving the seat forward as I did also had the effect of lowering the seat relative to the centre bracket by about 3 mm. More or less; I didn't do the trig on it yet.
I rode this way for about 50 km today, pedalling mostly at 105-110 cadence with no trouble at all. Felt too good to be true so I raised the seat that 3 mm and got that twinge across the back of the knee again, after only 5 km. So, back down with the seat again . . .
BTW what's _your_ view of what constitutes correct seat height? Where one can just rest the heel on the pedal without rotating hips? Or even lower than that?
You've found it. At least for the present, with more riding you may be able to extend the saddle again. A change in crank length will directly change seat height. If you need shorter cranks to allow belly breathing, lower the seat height by the same amount.
