mountain/walking leader training

aj said:

my friend thinks she can set herself up as a walking leader in the
Lake District without any formal outdoor qualifications,she must be
wrong surely?

She is correct there are no regulations regarding the need for
qualifications However getting insurance, if she goes down that
line, may be a bit tricky as insurance companies require a risk
assessment document to be prepared, which is supposed to be updated
regularly.

However her ability in guiding may be far superior to a ML
qualification.

It is up to clients to decide whether they wish to be guided by
someone without qualifications. Some shops will not accept brochures
unless you have a qualification.

Lindsay
www.caledoniahilltreks.com

On 17 Apr 2007 11:00:37 -0700, Lindsay <[email hidden]>
wrote:

|!On Apr 17, 6:36 pm, aj <[email hidden]> wrote:
|!> my friend thinks she can set herself up as a walking leader in the
|!> Lake District without any formal outdoor qualifications,she must be
|!> wrong surely?
|!
|!She is correct there are no regulations regarding the need for
|!qualifications However getting insurance, if she goes down that
|!line, may be a bit tricky as insurance companies require a risk
|!assessment document to be prepared, which is supposed to be updated
|!regularly.
|!
|!However her ability in guiding may be far superior to a ML
|!qualification.
|!
|!It is up to clients to decide whether they wish to be guided by
|!someone without qualifications. Some shops will not accept brochures
|!unless you have a qualification.

Bring back the good old days when, at the age of about 19?, late 1950s, I
went, on a fortnights walk, organised by the Holiday Fellowship up the,
soon to be, Pennine Way. Half way through just before Cross Fell the
leader said, this is as far as I go, can you lead the rest up to Kirk
Yetholm? The HF posted me maps, a compass, and routes. Off I went
leading about 6 people. The leader knew I was good on the hills, because
she turned through 90 degrees, off the route, at a style in the middle of
nowhere, and I told her what she had done just by watching the wind and
sky.
--
Dave Fawthrop <sf hyphenologist.co.uk> 165 *Free* SF ebooks.
165 Sci Fi books on CDROM, from Project Gutenberg
http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Main_Page Completely Free to any
address in the UK. Contact me on the *above* email address.

In message <[email hidden]>, Dave Fawthrop
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

On 17 Apr 2007 11:00:37 -0700, Lindsay <[email hidden]>
wrote:

|!On Apr 17, 6:36 pm, aj <[email hidden]> wrote:
|!> my friend thinks she can set herself up as a walking leader in the
|!> Lake District without any formal outdoor qualifications,she must be
|!> wrong surely?
|!
|!She is correct there are no regulations regarding the need for
|!qualifications However getting insurance, if she goes down that
|!line, may be a bit tricky as insurance companies require a risk
|!assessment document to be prepared, which is supposed to be updated
|!regularly.
|!
|!However her ability in guiding may be far superior to a ML
|!qualification.
|!
|!It is up to clients to decide whether they wish to be guided by
|!someone without qualifications. Some shops will not accept brochures
|!unless you have a qualification.

Bring back the good old days when, at the age of about 19?, late 1950s, I
went, on a fortnights walk, organised by the Holiday Fellowship up the,
soon to be, Pennine Way. Half way through just before Cross Fell the
leader said, this is as far as I go, can you lead the rest up to Kirk
Yetholm? The HF posted me maps, a compass, and routes. Off I went
leading about 6 people. The leader knew I was good on the hills, because
she turned through 90 degrees, off the route, at a style in the middle of
nowhere, and I told her what she had done just by watching the wind and
sky.

Wow ! What did the wind look like ?
--
Bill Grey

Lindsay said:

aj said:

my friend thinks she can set herself up as a walking leader in the
Lake District without any formal outdoor qualifications,she must be
wrong surely?

She is correct there are no regulations regarding the need for
qualifications However getting insurance, if she goes down that
line, may be a bit tricky as insurance companies require a risk
assessment document to be prepared, which is supposed to be updated
regularly.

However her ability in guiding may be far superior to a ML
qualification.

It is up to clients to decide whether they wish to be guided by
someone without qualifications. Some shops will not accept brochures
unless you have a qualification.

Lindsaywww.caledoniahilltreks.com

Thanks Lindsay

aj said:

my friend thinks she can set herself up as a walking leader in the
Lake District without any formal outdoor qualifications,she must be
wrong surely?

See other replies for some opinions.

My view is that organised walks in mountainous terrain ought to be led
by suitably qualified and experienced guides. I have a friend who
took (and passed) his ML a couple of years back, and as we were both
free to organise our own time and work commitments, I accompanied him
on many of his "mountain days", and observed his planning and
techniques at close hand. Near the time of his assessment, I also
spent a couple of days in the LD with him and a very experienced walk
leader while they went through some basic rope techniques and (at the
end of the day) some scree running. (Great fun, if not exactly PC in
the hills these days.) It opened my eyes as to what lay behind the
seemingly casual and confident air of most leaders that I have met.

There is a lot of hard work involved in gaining an ML qualification,
and the first level won't even get you insurance for walking in winter
conditions...

See: http://www.mltuk.org/docs/training-ml.html

I'd consider a trained leader to be a bit like an insurance policy.
You hope you'll never need it, but when the s**t hits the fan, you'll
be very glad someone knows their stuff. Of course, a lot depends on
the actual walks. Anyone can bimble up Cat Bells, for example.

"aj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

my friend thinks she can set herself up as a walking leader in the
Lake District without any formal outdoor qualifications,she must be
wrong surely?

No problem whatsoever! Quite, why anyone would want to be a walking leader
in the Lakes, I don't know;-) Plenty of them about! Including
"professionals" :-0
--
Craven and Pendle Birds:
Bird watching in and around Craven & Pendle.
North Yorkshire and East Lancashire.
http://craven-and-pendle-birding.org/

In article <[email hidden]>, aj
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

my friend thinks she can set herself up as a walking leader in the
Lake District without any formal outdoor qualifications,she must be
wrong surely?

If she is intending to only lead adults or children accompanied by their
parents (or legal guardians) she needs no formal qualifications. If on
the other hand she wants to be leading parties of unaccompanied children
she not only needs the appropriate qualifications for the activities but
also needs to be AALA licensed for licensable activities. See:

http://www.aala.org.uk/public_info_sheet.php

--

Dominic Sexton

In message <[email hidden]>, C R Fishwick
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

"aj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

my friend thinks she can set herself up as a walking leader in the
Lake District without any formal outdoor qualifications,she must be
wrong surely?

Quite, why anyone would want to be a walking leader
in the Lakes, I don't know;-) Plenty of them about!

For the very same reason as the "Plenty" you refer to I suppose.
--
Bill Grey

"Dominic Sexton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, aj
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

my friend thinks she can set herself up as a walking leader in the
Lake District without any formal outdoor qualifications,she must be
wrong surely?

If she is intending to only lead adults or children accompanied by their
parents (or legal guardians) she needs no formal qualifications. If on the
other hand she wants to be leading parties of unaccompanied children she
not only needs the appropriate qualifications for the activities but also
needs to be AALA licensed for licensable activities. See:

Which would also require a CRB check as well.

Quoted message said:

If on
the other hand she wants to be leading parties of unaccompanied children
she not only needs the appropriate qualifications for the activities but
also needs to be AALA licensed for licensable activities. See:

http://www.aala.org.uk/public_info_sheet.php

--

Dominic Sexton

I dont think its the case that they need the qualifications AND ALSO
need to be AALA licensed.

The legal requirement is to hold an AALA license when you are leading
children (on some activities) and you need to have your competance
ratified to get a license.

You get your competance ratified either by holding the NGB award or by
a 'technical adviser' ratifying your competance;

http://www.aala.org.uk/guidance_details.php/pArticleHeadingID=65

So the AALA advice seems to be that no formal qualifications are
actually required even if the person is leading children, receiving
payment or not.

I am not aware of a general legal requirement to hold such
qualifications when leading children where no payment is involved.

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] writes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If on
the other hand she wants to be leading parties of unaccompanied children
she not only needs the appropriate qualifications for the activities but
also needs to be AALA licensed for licensable activities. See:

http://www.aala.org.uk/public_info_sheet.php

I dont think its the case that they need the qualifications AND ALSO
need to be AALA licensed.

The legal requirement is to hold an AALA license when you are leading
children (on some activities) and you need to have your competance
ratified to get a license.

You get your competance ratified either by holding the NGB award or by
a 'technical adviser' ratifying your competance;

http://www.aala.org.uk/guidance_details.php/pArticleHeadingID=65

So the AALA advice seems to be that no formal qualifications are
actually required even if the person is leading children, receiving
payment or not.

I am not aware of a general legal requirement to hold such
qualifications when leading children where no payment is involved.

You are correct but the Technical Advisor would have to do a lot of work
with the person concerned to verify their competence. I suspect that in
most practical scenarios the TA would be unlikely to sign somebody off
without the appropriate NGB award.

A likely exception to this is where both the TA and the potential leader
work for the same outdoor centre so the TA has had plenty of chance to
see the potential leader in action.

--

Dominic Sexton

Quoted message said:

You are correct

Just dispelling the often believed myth that qualifications are a
legal requirement.

Quoted message said:

Which would also require a CRB check as well.

Is a CRB check 'required' ? .... i.e. a legal requirement

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Which would also require a CRB check as well.

Is a CRB check 'required' ? .... i.e. a legal requirement

Not unless the said leader is working for an organisation that requires a
CRB check. Although in this day and age could lead to difficulties:-(
--
Craven and Pendle Birds:
Bird watching in and around Craven & Pendle.
North Yorkshire and East Lancashire.
http://craven-and-pendle-birding.org/

Quoted message said:

--
Craven and Pendle Birds:
Bird watching in and around Craven & Pendle.
North Yorkshire and East Lancashire.
http://craven-and-pendle-birding.org/
"Bill Grey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In message <[email hidden]>, C R Fishwick
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

"aj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

my friend thinks she can set herself up as a walking leader in the
Lake District without any formal outdoor qualifications,she must be
wrong surely?

Quite, why anyone would want to be a walking leader
in the Lakes, I don't know;-) Plenty of them about!

For the very same reason as the "Plenty" you refer to I suppose.

Nope! It's well known that you don't really need a guide for hillwalking in
the LD. Just use a AW guide;-)
--
Craven and Pendle Birds:
Bird watching in and around Craven & Pendle.
North Yorkshire and East Lancashire.
http://craven-and-pendle-birding.org/

"Dominic Sexton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, aj
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

my friend thinks she can set herself up as a walking leader in the
Lake District without any formal outdoor qualifications,she must be
wrong surely?

If she is intending to only lead adults or children accompanied by their
parents (or legal guardians) she needs no formal qualifications. If on the
other hand she wants to be leading parties of unaccompanied children she
not only needs the appropriate qualifications for the activities but also
needs to be AALA licensed for licensable activities. See:

http://www.aala.org.uk/public_info_sheet.php

So therefore what you are proposing is that any adult that takes children
(not their own) needs to be licensed? Very much doubt it, unless I suppose
if s/he are being paid as a professional guide.
--
Craven and Pendle Birds:
Bird watching in and around Craven & Pendle.
North Yorkshire and East Lancashire.
http://craven-and-pendle-birding.org/

Quoted message said:

Not unless the said leader is working for an organisation that requires a
CRB check. Although in this day and age could lead to difficulties:-(

Oh, most organisatione do insist, but there is no requirement from the
AALA to have one done that I know of.

Quoted message said:

So therefore what you are proposing is that any adult that takes children
(not their own) needs to be licensed? Very much doubt it, unless I suppose
if s/he are being paid as a professional guide.

An AALA license is only required if you are leading children in some
activities (hillwalking is one) and you are recieving 'payment'.