motor oil

"Callistus Valerius" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:SW_cb.4192
[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Can 30 weight motor oil be used on the chain? What are pros and cons?

Bike chain oil is thinner, so it works its way into the chain pins very quickly. It also picks up
less dirt and dust.

If you really want to use motor oil, you can heat it up first to make it flow more easily. Also wipe
regularly to keep too much crud from building up on your chain.

Since engines have a pump to squeeze oil between bearings under less pressure than those in a chain,
no. But I was pleasantly surprised, when hitting K-mart for something to use on a chain, the house
brand of a STP type substance, although alittle too viscous, is a slippery, high pressure lube. In
other words, chain lube. Tom

--
Bruni Bicycles "Where art meets science" brunibicycles.com
410.426.3420 Callistus Valerius <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Can 30 weight motor oil be used on the chain? What are pros and cons?

Callistus Valerius' may have said:

Can 30 weight motor oil be used on the chain? What are pros and cons?

SAE50 seems to be a better choice, though 30 works OK for lots of folks. Motor oil has the advantage
of being cheap and readily available, even at 9PM on a Sunday.

Alternatives that are also not expensive include chain saw bar and chain oil, about a buck a quart
at Wal-Mart for the house brand; a half-and-half mix of motor oil and your favorite brand of tick
oil additive like STP, for those who worry about motor oil being thrown off; and paraffin wax,
applied by dropping the chain in a pot or pan of hot, melted wax for long enough to ensure that the
chain is fully coated all the way into the links.

The one thing that there seems to be a concensus about is that WD40 is a Bad Thing except as a means
of getting crud off, and many feel that it should never be applied to a chain at all.

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draco.acs.uci.edu8d.2.htmlOpen ↗

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

may have said:

draco.acs.uci.edu8d.2.htmlOpen ↗

Bookmarked.

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In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Can 30 weight motor oil be used on the chain? What are pros and cons?

Yes. No cons. Pros, great lube at a great price.
---------------
Alex

Callistus Valerius said:

Can 30 weight motor oil be used on the chain?

I find interesting that on the one hand people advise others to use WD-40 as a lubricant. WD-40 is
has about the viscosity of kerosene or diesel oil and less ability as a lubricant. On the other hand
30W motor oil, an excellent lubricant that gives timing and primary chains on motor vehicle more
than 100,000 miles of high RPM life, is not good enough. As the FAQ item explains, viscous oils act
as fly paper for dust and debris that comes along and makes the chain a terror to touch, the
opposite of WD-40 that is as good as gone from riding a bit.

Chain lubrication is a religion, it has all the demands on faith of the practitioner that all other
religions demand. Wax, arcane cleaning rituals, fear of interference by disassembling the chain from
the bicycle and all the other taboos.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

"Callistus Valerius" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Can 30 weight motor oil be used on the chain? What are pros and cons?

I had good results with Slick 50. The carrier oil goes away after awile, but the active ingrediant -
a teflon like stuff - stays in the chain for a long while.

may have said:

Callistus Valerius said:

Can 30 weight motor oil be used on the chain?

I find interesting that on the one hand people advise others to use WD-40 as a lubricant. WD-40 is
has about the viscosity of kerosene or diesel oil and less ability as a lubricant. On the other
hand 30W motor oil, an excellent lubricant that gives timing and primary chains on motor vehicle
more than 100,000 miles of high RPM life, is not good enough.

In an engine, those chains run in a fog or spray of filtered oil. On a bike chain, the amount
present and its cleanliness begin to diminish as soon as the chain is installed. (And while 100K is
the norm for timing chains today, it was not always so; the older Toyotas, for example, were
infamous for roller-type timing chain sloppiness and failures at 50 to 70K.) Bike chain lube is, of
course, anything but filtered...or even clean, after the first couple of miles.

The rationale for favoring the heavier weight seems to be the reduction in the amount of oil that
drips or slings off, in part since one of the places it can land is on the braking surfaces of the
rim. (This argument may be spurious, though; it always seems to me that lighter vis lube would
complete the drip-out process faster, leaving the chain with less surplus that is likely to sling
off. It's hard to say for sure which is the better route, though the fact that heavier oil seems to
stay put is the factor I've leaned toward most often.)

As for heavier oil acting like flypaper for dirt, any motor oil will attract crud on an exposed
surface. In my experience, this holds true for 5W15 as much as for 60W racing oil. Once the
contaminants start to accumulate, the viscosity is almost irrelevant. (Having spent too much time
under the hoods of vehicles, I'm far too familiar with the tendency for dirt to stick to exposed
surfaces where any film of motor oil is present, and lightweight oils seem no less prone to this
than any others.)

Quoted message said:

Chain lubrication is a religion, it has all the demands on faith of the practitioner that all other
religions demand. Wax, arcane cleaning rituals, fear of interference by disassembling the chain
from the bicycle and all the other taboos.

Which is why I present a range of options. Not all of the things I mention are ones I use, but all
have been reported to be effective often enough.

(Frankly, the fact that my running test waxed chain seems to be staying much cleaner than the others
is making me lean toward that as my personally preferred method, but this is opposed by the fact
that waxing is rather more demanding of time. There is a certain economy of effort that can't be
denied in simply having a toolless link in the chain, a soda bottle of solvent, and a second bottle
of oil for a lube
dip.)

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My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
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Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Jobst Brandt
draco.acs.uci.edu8d.2.htmlOpen ↗

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

Your link gives kudos to motorcycle chainlubes and chainsaw lubes. What about GoKart chainlube since unlike the motorcycle and chainsaw chains, the kart chain architecture is the same as a bicycle, just a larger chain?

Regarding the bathing of the chain: How about using the clamp on unit replaced with oil after he cleaning? Or, perhaps a pair of Pedro machines-one dedicated for cleaning and one dedicated for an oik bath?

Callistus Valerius said:

Can 30 weight motor oil be used on the chain? What are pros and cons?

Sure. I just clean mine and drop it in whatever bottle of Mobil 1 is sitting on the shelf overnight.

If it helped the timing chain in my Nissan last 160,000 hard miles it's good enough for my
PC-89. :-)

Scott Johnson "There is nothing, I think, more unfortunate than to have soft, chubby, fat-looking
children who go to watch their school play basketball every Saturday and regard that as their
week's exercise."
- John F. Kennedy, 1962

anonymous said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Can 30 weight motor oil be used on the chain?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I find interesting that on the one hand people advise others to use WD-40 as a lubricant. WD-40
is has about the viscosity of kerosene or diesel oil and less ability as a lubricant. On the
other hand 30W motor oil, an excellent lubricant that gives timing and primary chains on motor
vehicle more than 100,000 miles of high RPM life, is not good enough.

Quoted message said:

In an engine, those chains run in a fog or spray of filtered oil. On a bike chain, the amount
present and its cleanliness begin to diminish as soon as the chain is installed. (And while 100K
is the norm for timing chains today, it was not always so; the older Toyotas, for example, were
infamous for roller-type timing chain sloppiness and failures at 50 to 70K.) Bike chain lube is,
of course, anything but filtered...or even clean, after the first couple of miles.

So? The point is that this lubricant is ideal for chain lubrication. That bicycles (and motorcycles)
have a contamination problem is another issue. Filtration has nothing to do with whether motor oil
is a good chain lubricant.

Quoted message said:

The rationale for favoring the heavier weight seems to be the reduction in the amount of oil that
drips or slings off, in part since one of the places it can land is on the braking surfaces of
the rim.

Not at all. The reason is apparent oil loss and more viscous oil stays around longer. As for
spattering, that is a matter of wiping off excess oil before use. A good way to avoid this is to
install the clean dry chain and oil it with an oil can carefully by manually backpedaling with the
oil can dripping on the lower run of the chain.

Quoted message said:

(This argument may be spurious, though; it always seems to me that lighter vis lube would complete
the drip-out process faster, leaving the chain with less surplus that is likely to sling off. It's
hard to say for sure which is the better route, though the fact that heavier oil seems to stay put
is the factor I've leaned toward most often.)

Anything heavier than motor oil will pack the sprocket cluster and derailleur wheels solid with
dirt. The chain doesn't show this but the sprockets do. I suspect you haven't tried this or you
wouldn't think 90W gear lube is OK.

Quoted message said:

As for heavier oil acting like flypaper for dirt, any motor oil will attract crud on an exposed
surface. In my experience, this holds true for 5W15 as much as for 60W racing oil. Once the
contaminants start to accumulate, the viscosity is almost irrelevant. (Having spent too much time
under the hoods of vehicles, I'm far too familiar with the tendency for dirt to stick to exposed
surfaces where any film of motor oil is present, and lightweight oils seem no less prone to this
than any others.)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Chain lubrication is a religion, it has all the demands on faith of the practitioner that all
other religions demand. Wax, arcane cleaning rituals, fear of interference by disassembling the
chain from the bicycle and all the other taboos.

Quoted message said:

Which is why I present a range of options. Not all of the things I mention are ones I use, but all
have been reported to be effective often enough.

Don't report on hearsay. It's full of pitfalls and can be gleaned from these pages daily.

Quoted message said:

(Frankly, the fact that my running test waxed chain seems to be staying much cleaner than the
others is making me lean toward that as my personally preferred method, but this is opposed by the
fact that waxing is rather more demanding of time. There is a certain economy of effort that can't
be denied in simply having a toolless link in the chain, a soda bottle of solvent, and a second
bottle of oil for a lube dip.)

Frankly? Oh, that other stuff you wrote was untrue? Now I get it.

Oh drats! Another wax advocate. Now we get to go through the wax routing again. Wax is immobile
so it does not replenish itself in the bearing surface. The slightest water intrusion will make
the chain sound like a thousand birds chirping, known as the TB syndrome. We've been through this
many times.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

may have said:

Anything heavier than motor oil will pack the sprocket cluster and derailleur wheels solid with
dirt. The chain doesn't show this but the sprockets do. I suspect you haven't tried this or you
wouldn't think 90W gear lube is OK.

Uh, no, I never mentioned 90W. 90W gear lube, in my opinion, is probably not a really great chain
lube. Plus, it stinks. And since there are explicit chain lubes sold which are quite a bit thicker
than any automotive motor oil, apparently there must be people who haven't had your experience with
dirt packing...although if a wet lube is applied to a sprocket in a dirty environment often enough,
certainly it's going to get covered with crud.

Quoted message said:

Oh drats! Another wax advocate. Now we get to go through the wax routing again. Wax is immobile
so it does not replenish itself in the bearing surface. The slightest water intrusion will make
the chain sound like a thousand birds chirping, known as the TB syndrome. We've been through this
many times.

Have you ever tried it?

I ride in a wet climate; that chain's been wet, and it's neither noisy nor corroded. I'll keep my
ears open for a change in it, but part of the reason that it's waxed is so that I can find out if
the technique really works. *So far*, it seems to, for me.

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My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.

Quoted message said:

I find interesting that on the one hand people advise others to use WD-40 as a lubricant. WD-40 is
has about the viscosity of kerosene or

Who advises using WD-40 as a lubricant? I've never heard of anybody doing so.

Quoted message said:

diesel oil and less ability as a lubricant. On the other hand 30W

No, I've handled all three, and WD-40 does not have the viscosity of diesel or kerosene.

Quoted message said:

motor oil, an excellent lubricant that gives timing and primary chains on motor vehicle more than
100,000 miles of high RPM life, is not good

Is that your opinion, or something you're disputing? It's unclear, although you appear to support
30W as a good lube, so I think you are disputing the above comment.

Quoted message said:

enough. As the FAQ item explains, viscous oils act as fly paper for dust and debris that comes
along and makes the chain a terror to touch, the opposite of WD-40 that is as good as gone from
riding a bit.

It's easy to remember if you just think WD stands for Wrecks Derailleurs (rather than Water
Displacer).

Quoted message said:

Chain lubrication is a religion, it has all the demands on faith of the practitioner that all other
religions demand. Wax, arcane cleaning rituals, fear of interference by disassembling the chain
from the bicycle and all the other taboos.

While it is a religion for many, thankfully, for many more it's simply a maintenance issue.

Personally, I use a "boutique"-style bike lube, which works fine for me. The expense is not a major
issue for me since I don't require much (not enough riding, and I rarely ride in dirty / wet
conditions). If my riding habits change and dictate a change in lube, then I'll reconsider, but time
spent trying a new lube is time spent not riding.

Quoted message said:

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

--
Rick Onanian

anonymous said:

Quoted message said:

Anything heavier than motor oil will pack the sprocket cluster and derailleur wheels solid with
dirt. The chain doesn't show this but the sprockets do. I suspect you haven't tried this or you
wouldn't think 90W gear lube is OK.

Quoted message said:

Uh, no, I never mentioned 90W. 90W gear lube, in my opinion, is probably not a really great
chain lube.

Untested opinion doesn't do much. 90W gear lube is excellent chain lubricant but its downside is the
same as any high viscosity oil in that it remains on surfaces and is sticky enough to entrap
airborne dirt. As I said, it will make a solid fill between sprockets and derailleur wheels.

Quoted message said:

Plus, it stinks.

Well don't use it as hair pomade then. I've heard of guys who sniff bicycle saddles but not chains.

Quoted message said:

And since there are explicit chain lubes sold which are quite a bit thicker than any automotive
motor oil, apparently there must be people who haven't had your experience with dirt packing...
although if a wet lube is applied to a sprocket in a dirty environment often enough, certainly
it's going to get covered with crud.

I get the impression that you haven't used automotive gear lubricants so you wouldn't have had the
experience. Don't confuse viscosity with oil in a grease. Greases and similar lubricants can be
stiff but leach out low viscosity oils. That is the way most greases work.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Oh drats! Another wax advocate. Now we get to go through the wax routing again. Wax is immobile
so it does not replenish itself in the bearing surface. The slightest water intrusion will make
the chain sound like a thousand birds chirping, known as the TB syndrome. We've been through this
many times.

Quoted message said:

Have you ever tried it?

Quoted message said:

I ride in a wet climate; that chain's been wet, and it's neither noisy nor corroded. I'll keep my
ears open for a change in it, but part of the reason that it's waxed is so that I can find out if
the technique really works. *So far*, it seems to, for me.

I'll have to defer to the many miles of discussions on this newsgroup that have reported on
this phenomenon. The only time I tried it, the chain was squeaky when it dried after riding on
a wet road.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Plus, it stinks.

Well don't use it as hair pomade then. I've heard of guys who sniff bicycle saddles but not chains.

thing is discussed...

Rick Onanian said:

Quoted message said:

I find interesting that on the one hand people advise others to use WD-40 as a lubricant. WD-40
is has about the viscosity of kerosene or

Who advises using WD-40 as a lubricant? I've never heard of anybody doing so.

Just hang around here a little longer.

Quoted message said:

It's easy to remember if you just think WD stands for Wrecks Derailleurs (rather than Water
Displacer).

Why should it have an effect on your derailer? A mnemonic device doesn't really seem necessary
here, anyway.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Dinosaurs aren't extinct. They've just learned to hide in the trees.

jobst brandt said:

As for spattering, that is a matter of wiping off excess oil before use. A good way to avoid this
is to install the clean dry chain and oil it with an oil can carefully by manually backpedaling
with the oil can dripping on the lower run of the chain.

I've always used the upper run, for no particular reason. Is there some advantage to applying the
oil to the lower run instead?

--
Benjamin Lewis

Dinosaurs aren't extinct. They've just learned to hide in the trees.

"Benjamin Lewis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

jobst brandt said:

As for spattering, that is a matter of wiping off excess oil before use. A good way to avoid
this is to install the clean dry chain and oil it with an oil can carefully by manually
backpedaling with the oil can dripping on the lower run of the chain.

I've always used the upper run, for no particular reason. Is there some advantage to applying the
oil to the lower run instead?

I use the lower run (new term for me) because that lubes the INSIDE of the chain -- the part that
contacts gears and rings most.

Bill "still using White Lightning but considering oil for the road bike" S.