Motobecane Immortal series

rparedes said:

Does anybody know of a similar frame geometry/manufacturer that i could ride to compare? I have access to Performance Bike shop (their brands: Scattante, Gt, Fujis) and LBS that has Felts, Scotts, Cannondales, Giants, Litespeed, Blue, Schwinn)

What's your motive? What are you looking for--fit, ride, price, ...? Don't you have enough choices with what you've already listed?

oldbobcat said:

What's your motive? What are you looking for--fit, ride, price, ...? Don't you have enough choices with what you've already listed?

Want full carbon, Ultegra, good fit, smooth ride. Presently I ride a Giant OCR1 (large frame) which will be moving to commute trips...Price is a big issue... don't want to spend over $2,000

rparedes said:

Want full carbon, Ultegra, good fit, smooth ride. Presently I ride a Giant OCR1 (large frame) which will be moving to commute trips...Price is a big issue... don't want to spend over $2,000

So what are your reservations about the Motobecane?

oldbobcat said:

So what are your reservations about the Motobecane?

Fit.
I am curious to know if there is a similar frame/brand out there that I can test ride. I've read a lot about other brands using the same frame but no particulars. The BiG drawback is I can't test ride a Moto...(at least not where I live) For example...How does it compare to a OCR-C2? ($2,300) Are the $700 difference worth the uncertainty? I'd rather see if i can benefit from the wealth of experience/knowledge out there (minimize risk as much as possible)...I'd hate to spend $1,600 only to find out I did not do my homework... I don't have a of of cash waiting to be spent...$700 is a big chunk of change... but I love riding and want to maximize my cash expenditure... just curious.
To me, buying a bike on-line it's like buying clothing or shoes on- line...risky... but If you've tried on the particular item or shoes (at a store) and you know what you want...

You're going to have a tough time correlating the Immortal sight unseen to just about any other bike you can ride. While most of the frames in this price range are built by Taiwanese jobbers, there are are at least several, and most of them provide some customization for their principals. So even if you were to find a bike made by the same jobber, it would not necessarily be the same bike.

For fit, going from a compact Giant OCR to a traditional diamond racing frame, you're going to notice that for a given amount of head tube rise you'll get more top tube length. In short, generally speaking, unless you use a riser or flip the stem, you're going to be lower and/or more stretched out.

I'd look at the factory geometry charts of the Motobecane and the bikes you'd want to test ride. Find the bikes whose primary dimensions most closely resemble the Motobecane in the size you think you want. Note the differences and interpolate.

Or you could measure the cockpit length (virtual top tube length + stem length) of your OCR and go for a similar fit with the Motobecane.

These days, for most stock bikes, the most important dimensions are top tube length (for reach) and head tube length (for handlebar height). Most bikes now come with extra long seat posts so you aren't too constrained setting the saddle height.

Beyond assuming that the ride of CF Immortal will be a little more compliant than your OCR, though, making an accurate prediction based on riding a similar bike will be impossible. If your seller has a 30-day money-back guarantee, then I guess you could take advantage of that in case the bike fails to meet your expectations.

If I were a jerk I'd just tell you to give up on the Motobecane and buy from your LBS. But buying any stock bike is a bit of a [censored] shoot, so if you can try to save a couple hundred, I say go for it.

oldbobcat said:

You're going to have a tough time correlating the Immortal sight unseen to just about any other bike you can ride. While most of the frames in this price range are built by Taiwanese jobbers, there are are at least several, and most of them provide some customization for their principals. So even if you were to find a bike made by the same jobber, it would not necessarily be the same bike.

For fit, going from a compact Giant OCR to a traditional diamond racing frame, you're going to notice that for a given amount of head tube rise you'll get more top tube length. In short, generally speaking, unless you use a riser or flip the stem, you're going to be lower and/or more stretched out.

I'd look at the factory geometry charts of the Motobecane and the bikes you'd want to test ride. Find the bikes whose primary dimensions most closely resemble the Motobecane in the size you think you want. Note the differences and interpolate.

Or you could measure the cockpit length (virtual top tube length + stem length) of your OCR and go for a similar fit with the Motobecane.

These days, for most stock bikes, the most important dimensions are top tube length (for reach) and head tube length (for handlebar height). Most bikes now come with extra long seat posts so you aren't too constrained setting the saddle height.

Beyond assuming that the ride of CF Immortal will be a little more compliant than your OCR, though, making an accurate prediction based on riding a similar bike will be impossible. If your seller has a 30-day money-back guarantee, then I guess you could take advantage of that in case the bike fails to meet your expectations.

If I were a jerk I'd just tell you to give up on the Motobecane and buy from your LBS. But buying any stock bike is a bit of a [censored] shoot, so if you can try to save a couple hundred, I say go for it.

I got an email from the Moto retailer suggesting TREX Madone...(actually the Trex appears to have a more sloping top tube) I've also laid out a diagram with the OCR 1 and the Moto geometries overlaid (I love CAD diagrams)... interesting it appears that for the comparable "cockpit" the Moto has a shorter wheelbase... I will definitely need to flip the stem and maybe add a riser so I'll have to check with the manufacturer to see if that's possible...
Thanks for the input

rparedes said:

I got an email from the Moto retailer suggesting TREX Madone.

The latest issue of Road Bike Action has a review of one of the Immortal bikes. It was quite favorable. Their impression seems very similar to other reviewers' impressions of the CF Felt I ride, and I'm not complaining. In a perfect world, though, the Felt would be about a centimeter taller and a half-centimeter shorter in the TT. Hey, that sounds a bit like a 59 cm Motobecane Immortal.

oldbobcat said:

The latest issue of Road Bike Action has a review of one of the Immortal bikes. It was quite favorable. Their impression seems very similar to other reviewers' impressions of the CF Felt I ride, and I'm not complaining. In a perfect world, though, the Felt would be about a centimeter taller and a half-centimeter shorter in the TT. Hey, that sounds a bit like a 59 cm Motobecane Immortal.

I have not seen the issue yet -(January, I presume?) In the meantime the retailer has given me additional info regarding the stem length and stack height. They are suggesting a 59 inch frame based on the fact I ride a large "relaxed geometry" frame and i don't want an overly aggressive position. (i overlaid a diagram of the 59 inch moto over the OCR large frame and other than the shorter wheel base on the moto, everything else seems to align perfectly) They suggest NOT adding risers- something to do with the carbon steerer- But they also said the stem can be "flipped".... the more i look at the pictures, the more like the bike...
Thanks for the input!

rparedes said:

I have not seen the issue yet -(January, I presume?)

Follow-up:
... I just read the January issue (i was not familiar with the publication). I guess it's a pretty good review. Their set-up includes different wheels than what the retailer is offering ... The review does reinforce the fact that it IS an excellent value and what the target market is...
What kills me about all of the MAG reviews: there is never a bad review... so it either means that manufacturers in general are pretty good (no lemons) or they only review the "better" bikes. I guess either way is great for us consumers.
Thanks for the tip. It helped to read about the bike...

rparedes said:

What kills me about all of the MAG reviews: there is never a bad review... so it either means that manufacturers in general are pretty good (no lemons) or they only review the "better" bikes. I guess either way is great for us consumers.
Thanks for the tip. It helped to read about the bike...

Road Bike Action had some interesting caveats about the handling of the LeMond and the Time (or was it the Ridley?).

Today's market is so competitive, though, and with the internet there is so much transparency in price and features that it's pretty hard to buy a substandard bike. Even sporting goods franchise bikes like K2, Iron Horse, and Mongoose are a decent buy in their price ranges. Except for what you find in discount stores, there are no bad bikes--just badly fitted bikes or bikes badly suited to their owners' purposes.

I believe the bike business is about ten years behind the guitar store business. The MSRP is on the tag, but street prices are close to the minimum advertised price with little or no haggling, and there are no bad guitars. Well, maybe except for bolted-neck Epiphones.

oldbobcat said:

I believe the bike business is about ten years behind the guitar store business. The MSRP is on the tag, but street prices are close to the minimum advertised price with little or no haggling, and there are no bad guitars. Well, maybe except for bolted-neck Epiphones.

Interesting parallel, I bought a beautiful hand made Larrivee on-line and even though i was not able to play it before i bought it -they were not available at any of the local stores- i knew exactly what i wanted and I had tried similar guitars. When it arrived it was even better than what i'd expected. The price was even lower than the lesser guitars i had tried; of course there was no assembly required 😄
I think the LBS business model is going change.

rparedes said:

Interesting parallel, I bought a beautiful hand made Larrivee ...
I think the LBS business model is going change.

Can't go wrong with a Larrivee. On the ones I've played, the action's a bit stiff for my wimpy fingers, but that's easily changed by a good tech. I like the one Pete Anderson designed with them.

We recently bought our daughter a Made-in-Mexico Strat. The fret ends are a little rough, but the finish is gorgeous, and it plays and sounds better than anyone has a right to expect at that price. Our local dealer's standard policy is to match his prices to whatever Guitar Center and Musician's Friend are doing. The independent dealers are still enjoying their snit against GHS strings, but that won't last much longer.

Back to bikes. I think we're going to see discounted prices year round. And in the end the dealers will be happier because they sold more bikes. The price of snob appeal might go down, though.