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Mostly OT, lightning

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UK and Europe
Published
3 August 2004
Last activity
6 August 2004
Original author
MartinM
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38
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  1. Quoted message said:

    Easy on the hysteria, guys.

    No hysteria. I was simply answering a question about cycling & lightning.
    Having cycled in a thunderstorm, it's not a pleasant experience realising that
    time delay between flash & thunder means the strike was a lot less than a mile
    away from where I was cycling :-)

    In reality the risk of being hit *is* low, but that's not what I was replying
    to.

    Cheers, helen s

    --This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
    to get correct one remove fame & fortune
    h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*s@$*a$o*l.c**$om$

    --Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off--

  2. "Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    in message <[email hidden]>, Tony Raven

    (') said:
    dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers said:


    The best thing is to get to lower ground where you aren't the highest
    object off the ground and seek shelter. If you can't you need to make
    yourself as low to the gound as possible by crouching.

    Crouch in a low spot, feet close together and balancing on your toes,
    head down and covered with hands together and elbows in touching the
    knees. Then pray.

    Easy on the hysteria, guys.

    Someone was killed only yesterday:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3533022.stm

    --

    Simon M.

  3. Kevin Stone said:
    dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers said:

    You think the little bit of rubber contained in a bicycle tyre is
    going to be of help against the amount of charge in a lightning
    strike??

    Yes! Given the choice, I'll have the rubber please. Anything which makes the
    path more resistant will increase your chances of not being hit.

    I wonder whether being on a bike could protect against the ground current?
    A metal frame would conduct from hub-to-hub and probably prevent the rider
    from being affected.

    On the other hand, being high up and on a metal framed bike with metal
    spiky bits can't be a '+' in a lightning storm. Maybe you'd be safe
    on a lowracer recumbent.

    Kit

  4. Tony Raven said:
    dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers said:


    The best thing is to get to lower ground where you aren't the highest object
    off the ground and seek shelter. If you can't you need to make yourself as low
    to the gound as possible by crouching.

    Crouch in a low spot, feet close together and balancing on your toes,
    head down and covered with hands together and elbows in touching the
    knees. Then pray.

    Most people are not killed by a direct lightning strike but by the
    potential difference created in the ground by the currents flowing
    outward from the strike - hence feet together to stop you getting
    electrocuted by the voltage between you feet and tip toes to minimise
    the contact area. Some people try to get really low by lying down - big
    mistake.

    The hands over the head minimise the head damage in a direct strike by
    directing the current down the arms into the legs and the ground
    avoiding the head and trunk where the damage is more likely to be fatal.

    Tony

    And if you see someone struck by lightning and know resuscitation
    techniques... I gather they work pretty well on lightning-strike
    victims.

    Kit

  5. In article <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    On the other hand, being high up and on a metal framed bike with metal
    spiky bits can't be a '+' in a lightning storm. Maybe you'd be safe
    on a lowracer recumbent.

    With a flag! Use a metal pole with a trailing earth and pray to whatever
    god happens to be most appropriate. ;-)

    Jon

  6. Tony Raven said:

    Crouch in a low spot, feet close together and balancing on your
    toes, head down and covered with hands together and elbows in
    touching the knees. Then pray.

    Quoted message said:

    Most people are not killed by a direct lightning strike but by the
    potential difference created in the ground by the currents flowing
    outward from the strike - hence feet together to stop you getting
    electrocuted by the voltage between you feet and tip toes to
    minimise the contact area.

    This is why you shouldn't shelter under trees. The tree, being tall,
    provides a good conducting path for the lighting to ground, where the
    charge dissipates over a wide area, causing a significant voltage
    between points at different distances from the tree.

    Ditto, if you are in mountains, don't shelter in cave mouths - the
    charge runs down the wet rock, and then takes the easy path through
    your body, rather than running all round the dry rock at the back of
    the cave.

    [Ref: Mountaincraft and Leadership, Langmuir, 1984]

    Quoted message said:

    The hands over the head minimise the head damage in a direct strike
    by directing the current down the arms into the legs and the ground
    avoiding the head and trunk where the damage is more likely to be
    fatal.

    To be *really* safe, you should balance on your right foot, with your
    right hand on top of your left on your head, to keep the current
    down the right side of your body, away from your heart :-^

    --
    Alan J. Wylie http://www.wylie.me.uk/
    "Perfection [in design] is achieved not when there is nothing left to add,
    but rather when there is nothing left to take away."
    -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  7. in message <[email hidden]>, Simon Mason

    (') said:


    "Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    in message <[email hidden]>, Tony Raven

    (') said:

    dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers wrote:
    >
    > The best thing is to get to lower ground where you aren't the
    > highest object off the ground and seek shelter. If you can't you
    > need to make yourself as low to the gound as possible by
    > crouching.

    Crouch in a low spot, feet close together and balancing on your
    toes, head down and covered with hands together and elbows in
    touching the
    knees. Then pray.

    Easy on the hysteria, guys.

    Someone was killed only yesterday:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3533022.stm

    One of on average five in the United Kingdom each year. As opposed to
    how many killed on the roads?

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    ;; better than your average performing pineapple

  8. On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 09:15:53 +0100, Tony Raven <[email hidden]>
    wrote (more or less):

    Quoted message said:
    dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers said:


    The best thing is to get to lower ground where you aren't the highest object
    off the ground and seek shelter. If you can't you need to make yourself as low
    to the gound as possible by crouching.

    Crouch in a low spot, feet close together and balancing on your toes,
    head down and covered with hands together and elbows in touching the
    knees. Then pray.

    More than being on two pairs of tip-toes, put one foot flat on the
    ground, and place the other foor /on top/ of it.

    This means that one foot might get fried, but at least teh induced
    current from the potential difference on teh bots of ground won't be
    passing up one leg and down the other, possibly even going through the
    heart...

    Quoted message said:

    Most people are not killed by a direct lightning strike but by the
    potential difference created in the ground by the currents flowing
    outward from the strike - hence feet together to stop you getting
    electrocuted by the voltage between you feet and tip toes to minimise
    the contact area. Some people try to get really low by lying down - big
    mistake.

    Quite so.

    The reason so many cows get damaged by lightning is the distance from
    forelegs to rearlegs allows for a really big potential difference
    between the two pairs, should lightning strke near them.

    Quoted message said:


    The hands over the head minimise the head damage in a direct strike by
    directing the current down the arms into the legs and the ground
    avoiding the head and trunk where the damage is more likely to be fatal.

    Being fairly close to something much taller than yourself is a better
    bet for this aspect.

    But not /too/ close to the tall object (e.g. tree) as the potential
    difference is highest, and drops off most steeply, at the point where
    the object struck meets the ground.

    --
    Cheers,
    Euan
    Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
    Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
    Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk) http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk

  9. Simon Brooke <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Easy on the hysteria, guys.

    Someone was killed only yesterday:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3533022.stm

    One of on average five in the United Kingdom each year. As opposed to
    how many killed on the roads?

    Well, five is five too many if it can be prevented ;-)

  10. in message <[email hidden]>, Simon Mason

    (') said:

    Simon Brooke <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Easy on the hysteria, guys.

    Someone was killed only yesterday:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3533022.stm

    One of on average five in the United Kingdom each year. As opposed to
    how many killed on the roads?

    Well, five is five too many if it can be prevented ;-)

    You know, what? we can prevent all cycling deaths. All of them! All you
    have to do is ban cycling. Easy!

    Yes, deaths are sad. But prevention inevitably has costs. At what point
    is the cure worse than the disease? And also, frankly, we all have to
    die, and given the choice I'd rather be killed suddenly and
    unexpectedly when in good health and enjoying myself than in pain and
    gradually losing my faculties in some god-awful hospital like my
    parents did.

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    ;; If you're doing this for fun, do what seems fun. If you're
    ;; doing it for money, stop now.
    ;; Rainer Deyke

  11. Gawnsoft <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    But not /too/ close to the tall object (e.g. tree) as the potential
    difference is highest, and drops off most steeply, at the point where
    the object struck meets the ground.

    That make sense. I alway thought (was probably told at school) that the
    reason for not standing too close was that trees can explode in a lightning
    strike due to the rapid heating of the sap. I suppose that's true, but the
    potential difference argument also stands for non-tree like objects.

    Graeme

  12. Kit Wolf <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    And if you see someone struck by lightning and know resuscitation
    techniques... I gather they work pretty well on lightning-strike
    victims.

    I wonder why that is? Resus on a heart attack victim is fairly unsuccesful
    and the recommendation is to try CPR until proper medical help gets there
    with the drugs and defibrillator etc. Possibly CPR is less effective in
    these cases as the cause of heart stoppage is some form of block or totally
    knackered heart. In a lightning strike it would be the electric shock and
    what you're trying to do is give a potentially healthy heart a bit of a
    help to get a good rhythm going again.

    Or is there some other explanation?

    Graeme

  13. "Graeme" wrote...

    Quoted message said:

    Kit Wolf wrote :

    Quoted message said:

    And if you see someone struck by lightning and know resuscitation
    techniques... I gather they work pretty well on lightning-strike
    victims.

    I wonder why that is? Resus on a heart attack victim is fairly unsuccesful
    and the recommendation is to try CPR until proper medical help gets there
    with the drugs and defibrillator etc. Possibly CPR is less effective in
    these cases as the cause of heart stoppage is some form of block or


    totally

    Quoted message said:

    knackered heart. In a lightning strike it would be the electric shock and
    what you're trying to do is give a potentially healthy heart a bit of a
    help to get a good rhythm going again.

    Or is there some other explanation?

    Graeme

    The first aid classes that I've taken told me that CPR performed perfectly
    under ideal conditions provides almost enough oxygen to the blood, and
    almost enough blood flow / blood pressure to the circulatory system to
    support life. Therefore the best one can hope for is to buy time until
    proper medical help gets there.

    I was also taught in these classes that most cardiac arrest is not full
    arrest, but fibrillation, in which the heart muscle is spasming and working
    erratically, and CPR is not effective in this instance. In the instance of a
    lightning strike or other severe electric shock, the heart muscle is
    completely stopped and not working at all, and can therefore be restarted
    fairly easily with properly administered CPR. The best analogy I can think
    of at the moment is the act of rebooting a computer after it has stopped
    working. I'm not a doctor, and the first aid classes in question were taken
    long before I knew how to reboot a computer, so any constructive criticism
    of what I just said is quite welcome.
    --
    mark

  14. "mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:KoGQc.10668$9Y6.5772
    @newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:

    Quoted message said:

    The best analogy I can think
    of at the moment is the act of rebooting a computer after it has stopped
    working.
    I'm not a doctor,

    Thank god for that! I had visions of you attending an arrested patient and
    frantically trying to find the power button :-)

    Graeme

  15. Graeme said:

    "mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:KoGQc.10668$9Y6.5772
    @newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:

    Quoted message said:

    The best analogy I can think
    of at the moment is the act of rebooting a computer after it has stopped
    working.
    I'm not a doctor,

    Thank god for that! I had visions of you attending an arrested patient and
    frantically trying to find the power button :-)

    Graeme

    *giggle* I think another thread might shed some light on this... See
    thread about lycra cycling shorts and platform pedals ;-)

    --

    Velvet

  16. Velvet <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    *giggle* I think another thread might shed some light on this... See
    thread about lycra cycling shorts and platform pedals ;-)

    Are you trying to introduce willies into this thread too? You old perv
    Velvet! There's web sites for people like you 🙂

    Graeme

  17. Graeme said:

    Velvet <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    *giggle* I think another thread might shed some light on this... See
    thread about lycra cycling shorts and platform pedals ;-)

    Are you trying to introduce willies into this thread too? You old perv
    Velvet! There's web sites for people like you 🙂

    Graeme

    Oi! Less of the old! :-)

    --

    Velvet

  18. Velvet <[email hidden]> wrote in news:XkNQc.327$vq6.3053699
    @news-text.cableinet.net:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Are you trying to introduce willies into this thread too? You old perv
    Velvet! There's web sites for people like you 🙂

    Graeme

    Oi! Less of the old! :-)

    Just my little test, so you don't deny the main charge of being a perv. The
    evidence is overhelming 🙂

    Graeme

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