Mosedale Horsehoe

"Towser" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm going up to Wasdale in a couple of weeks and fancy doing the Mosedale
Horseshoe.

However, my wife is coming with me and she will have just had an operation
on her hand a couple of weeks before. Having never done it, is there
anyone
that can offer advice as to whether it would be foolhardy or is it a safe
walk requiring no hands? I hear differing accounts about Yewbarrow,
Steeple
and Pillar.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Antony

(At the risk of stating the obvious...) would the risk be not so much
"needing" hands for the walk (almost nowhere on the Lakes hills "walking"
routes, iff confident & sprightly, IMHO, ) but rather the consequence of
tripping/falling wherever your wife happens to be walking and unconsciously
putting her hand out to stop the fall.. ???

(He said remembering spending a week skipping round the Swiss Alps in the
late 1960s with no problems at all.. then, returning to Geneva and walking
along a straight, flat, road a week or so later, tripping over nothing and
getting gravel rash on both palms & one knee... )

That's true of course and the risk of slipping/falling is a risk she's happy
to take. It's just if she needs hand-holds on a scramble etc. For
instance, I'm thinking it would be safer to ditch Yewbarrow (the scramble
ascent from Dore Head and the relatively steep descent).

Cheers

Antony

"Rab C Nesbitt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Towser" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm going up to Wasdale in a couple of weeks and fancy doing the

Mosedale

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Horseshoe.

However, my wife is coming with me and she will have just had an

operation

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on her hand a couple of weeks before. Having never done it, is there
anyone
that can offer advice as to whether it would be foolhardy or is it a

safe

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

walk requiring no hands? I hear differing accounts about Yewbarrow,
Steeple
and Pillar.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Antony

(At the risk of stating the obvious...) would the risk be not so much
"needing" hands for the walk (almost nowhere on the Lakes hills "walking"
routes, iff confident & sprightly, IMHO, ) but rather the consequence of
tripping/falling wherever your wife happens to be walking and

unconsciously

Quoted message said:

putting her hand out to stop the fall.. ???

(He said remembering spending a week skipping round the Swiss Alps in the
late 1960s with no problems at all.. then, returning to Geneva and walking
along a straight, flat, road a week or so later, tripping over nothing and
getting gravel rash on both palms & one knee... )

In message <[email hidden]>, Towser
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I'm going up to Wasdale in a couple of weeks and fancy doing the Mosedale
Horseshoe.

However, my wife is coming with me and she will have just had an operation
on her hand a couple of weeks before. Having never done it, is there anyone
that can offer advice as to whether it would be foolhardy or is it a safe
walk requiring no hands? I hear differing accounts about Yewbarrow, Steeple
and Pillar.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

On many walks one does occasionally use one's hands, without remarking
on it, which makes it difficult to be sure that a particular route does
not contain locations where one's hands would be used.

That said, there are points on the full horseshoe which are definitely
scrambly. Whether you pass them depends on the route you take. There's a
point or two on the ascent of Yewbarrow where you might like to use
hands, and I'd guess that hands would be needed on the descent to Dore
Head from Stirrup Crag (Yewbarrow's north top). (My legs seized up on
Yewbarrow, having done too much the previous day, so I dropped off to
the west into the back valley from the col between Yewbarrow and Stirrup
Crag, and retreated to Wasdale; I'd probably have avoided the Stirrup
Crag descent anyway.) Ditto if you're crossing Yewbarrow in the reverse
direction.

You might find that the ridge out to Steeple is too exposed for comfort
(it's not that bad, but tolerances vary) but I don't recall hands being
any help on it. It being on a side ridge you can skip Steeple if
necessary.

I don't recollect any requirement for hands on Pillar's southeast and
west ridges. I don't know about the Climber's Traverse. My memory is
hazy with respect to Black Crags (the peak between Pillar and Little
Scoat Fell) and Wind Gap, which, if I recall correctly, are fairly
rough, but I don't suppose it's any worse than the east and northwest
flanks of Great Gable.

If you intend to include Kirkfell, rather than start at Black Sail Pass,
both ends of the Kirkfell ridge have scrambly bits, but they are
avoidable by dropping off to the north between the two summits.

Note that avoiding the scrambly bits on Yewbarrow and Kirkfell means
venturing into untracked territory; whether this is sensible depends on
your map-reading, route-selection and navigation skills.

You can omit Yewbarrow by descending/ascending Dore Head, but this was
badly eroded when I was there last; perhaps someone else can comment on
the current state.

If the worse comes to the worse you can turn back if you hit an obstacle
that's too much - never ascend something you can't descend unless you're
sure of you alternative descent. I don't image that you'll hit such an
obstacle on the ascent to Pillar via Black Sail Pass and Looking Stead.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

Following up to Rab C Nesbitt

Quoted message said:

"needing" hands for the walk (almost nowhere on the Lakes hills "walking"

I don't think many will get across Yewbarrow without using hands.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"

Following up to Towser

Quoted message said:

However, my wife is coming with me and she will have just had an operation
on her hand a couple of weeks before. Having never done it, is there anyone
that can offer advice as to whether it would be foolhardy or is it a safe
walk requiring no hands? I hear differing accounts about Yewbarrow, Steeple
and Pillar.

Yewbarrow is hands on at both ends.
"http://www.fellwalk.co.uk/wasB0163.htm"
pic shows from north, the left skyline above the little sparkling
tarn has two spots requiring a bit of an awkward stretch, the
right skyline is steep loose stuff plus one or two hands on steps
(much nicer going up than down).
Steeple is a bit exposed but hands free. Pillar is the odd hand
out to steady. The walk up Mosedale to Black Sail is fine then
its a bit rocky in places towards Pillar summit, if too much turn
back now. If OK you can continue and descend over Red Pike then
avoid Yewbarrow by taking valley going right before you get to
it. You avoid Red Pike too by following Nether Back for a long
but easy descent.
More details and photos here:-
"http://www.fellwalk.co.uk/page20.htm"
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk/page01.htm"
(see website for email)

"Stewart Robert Hinsley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In message <[email hidden]>, Towser
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I'm going up to Wasdale in a couple of weeks and fancy doing the Mosedale
Horseshoe.

However, my wife is coming with me and she will have just had an operation
on her hand a couple of weeks before. Having never done it, is there
anyone
that can offer advice as to whether it would be foolhardy or is it a safe
walk requiring no hands? I hear differing accounts about Yewbarrow,
Steeple
and Pillar.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

On many walks one does occasionally use one's hands, without remarking on
it, which makes it difficult to be sure that a particular route does not
contain locations where one's hands would be used.

That said, there are points on the full horseshoe which are definitely
scrambly. Whether you pass them depends on the route you take. There's a
point or two on the ascent of Yewbarrow where you might like to use hands,
and I'd guess that hands would be needed on the descent to Dore Head from
Stirrup Crag (Yewbarrow's north top). (My legs seized up on Yewbarrow,
having done too much the previous day, so I dropped off to the west into
the back valley from the col between Yewbarrow and Stirrup Crag, and
retreated to Wasdale; I'd probably have avoided the Stirrup Crag descent
anyway.) Ditto if you're crossing Yewbarrow in the reverse direction.

You might find that the ridge out to Steeple is too exposed for comfort
(it's not that bad, but tolerances vary) but I don't recall hands being
any help on it. It being on a side ridge you can skip Steeple if
necessary.

I don't recollect any requirement for hands on Pillar's southeast and west
ridges. I don't know about the Climber's Traverse. My memory is hazy with
respect to Black Crags (the peak between Pillar and Little Scoat Fell) and
Wind Gap, which, if I recall correctly, are fairly rough, but I don't
suppose it's any worse than the east and northwest flanks of Great Gable.

If you intend to include Kirkfell, rather than start at Black Sail Pass,
both ends of the Kirkfell ridge have scrambly bits, but they are avoidable
by dropping off to the north between the two summits.

Note that avoiding the scrambly bits on Yewbarrow and Kirkfell means
venturing into untracked territory; whether this is sensible depends on
your map-reading, route-selection and navigation skills.

You can omit Yewbarrow by descending/ascending Dore Head, but this was
badly eroded when I was there last; perhaps someone else can comment on
the current state.

If the worse comes to the worse you can turn back if you hit an obstacle
that's too much - never ascend something you can't descend unless you're
sure of you alternative descent. I don't image that you'll hit such an
obstacle on the ascent to Pillar via Black Sail Pass and Looking Stead.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

Quoted message said:

If you intend to include Kirkfell, rather than start at Black Sail Pass,
both ends of the Kirkfell ridge have scrambly bits, but they are avoidable
by dropping off to the north between the two summits.

Note that avoiding the scrambly bits on Yewbarrow and Kirkfell means
venturing into untracked territory; whether this is sensible depends on
your map-reading, route-selection and navigation skills.

You can miss the tricky bits on Kirkfell by using the Baysoar Slack route.
No real path, but no real difficulties either; certainly a lot easier than
the NW ridge. It drops down almost from the main summit alongside the beck -
nice falls on the way - and if you contour round at the right spot you'll
come out at Black Sail without losing any height. Alternatively go towards
Beck Head on the well worn path at the back of Kirk Fell, and miss the
roughish decent after the second summit.

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:48:20 +0100, The Reid
<[email hidden]> wrote:

... >Following up to Towser
... >
... >>However, my wife is coming with me and she will have just had an operation
... >>on her hand a couple of weeks before. Having never done it, is there anyone
... >>that can offer advice as to whether it would be foolhardy or is it a safe
... >>walk requiring no hands? I hear differing accounts about Yewbarrow, Steeple
... >>and Pillar.
... >
... >Yewbarrow is hands on at both ends.
... >"http://www.fellwalk.co.uk/wasB0163.htm"
... >pic shows from north, the left skyline above the little sparkling
... >tarn has two spots requiring a bit of an awkward stretch, the
... >right skyline is steep loose stuff plus one or two hands on steps
... >(much nicer going up than down).
... >Steeple is a bit exposed but hands free. Pillar is the odd hand
... >out to steady. The walk up Mosedale to Black Sail is fine then
... >its a bit rocky in places towards Pillar summit, if too much turn
... >back now. If OK you can continue and descend over Red Pike then
... >avoid Yewbarrow by taking valley going right before you get to
... >it. You avoid Red Pike too by following Nether Back for a long
... >but easy descent.
... >More details and photos here:-
... >"http://www.fellwalk.co.uk/page20.htm"

I don't see Yewbarrow in a snow shower on the link ... just the good
old red X in the corner. If I click on the blank picture "frame" I see
a nice one of Wastwater.

Mike

Thanks Stewart and Gordon for taking the time out to give a thorough answer.

Really appreciated.

Cheers!

Antony

Hi Mike,

The link is broken on your website to this photo.

The rest look great though!

Cheers

Antony
"The Reid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Following up to Towser

Quoted message said:

However, my wife is coming with me and she will have just had an

operation

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on her hand a couple of weeks before. Having never done it, is there

anyone

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that can offer advice as to whether it would be foolhardy or is it a safe
walk requiring no hands? I hear differing accounts about Yewbarrow,

Steeple

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and Pillar.

Yewbarrow is hands on at both ends.
"http://www.fellwalk.co.uk/wasB0163.htm"
pic shows from north, the left skyline above the little sparkling
tarn has two spots requiring a bit of an awkward stretch, the
right skyline is steep loose stuff plus one or two hands on steps
(much nicer going up than down).
Steeple is a bit exposed but hands free. Pillar is the odd hand
out to steady. The walk up Mosedale to Black Sail is fine then
its a bit rocky in places towards Pillar summit, if too much turn
back now. If OK you can continue and descend over Red Pike then
avoid Yewbarrow by taking valley going right before you get to
it. You avoid Red Pike too by following Nether Back for a long
but easy descent.
More details and photos here:-
"http://www.fellwalk.co.uk/page20.htm"
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk/page01.htm"
(see website for email)

Following up to Mike

Quoted message said:

.. >Yewbarrow is hands on at both ends.
.. >"http://www.fellwalk.co.uk/wasB0163.htm"
.. >"http://www.fellwalk.co.uk/page20.htm"

I don't see Yewbarrow in a snow shower on the link ... just the good
old red X in the corner. If I click on the blank picture "frame" I see
a nice one of Wastwater.

sorry about that, [censored] up on the coding front. Now fixed, if you
wanted to look at Wasdale pics generally, follow link in sig
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale picture gallery
"http://www.fellwalk.co.uk/waspics.htm"
(see website for email)

Following up to Towser

Quoted message said:

The link is broken on your website to this photo.

Fixed now, if I had remembered to upload the photo and also to
type the image name in the right place rather than as a link it
might have worked better. Have a good trip, I hear on radio
there's a bit of flooding today, lets hope the sun comes back
(I'm off up there soon too).

Quoted message said:

The rest look great though!

Thanks very much
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"

Towser said:

That's true of course and the risk of slipping/falling is a risk she's happy
to take. It's just if she needs hand-holds on a scramble etc. For
instance, I'm thinking it would be safer to ditch Yewbarrow (the scramble
ascent from Dore Head and the relatively steep descent).

It might be useful to put a small sling round the neck she can prop
the arm in. Could be made from a knotted scarf. Serves as a very
useful reminder that she's supposed to be babying the hand in
situations where she might be tempted to make an instinctive grab,
while it can easily be taken out for use if required.

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

The Reid said:

Following up to Rab C Nesbitt

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"needing" hands for the walk (almost nowhere on the Lakes hills "walking"

Quoted message said:

I don't think many will get across Yewbarrow without using hands.

But one hand might well be enough. She might also be able to use a
closed fist rather than a hand grab?

I once used to practice climb with friends on some crags where it was
illegal to use one's hands (the local definition of "climbing"😉. We
found quite a serious looking climb which we worked out how to climb
with hands in pockets by using elbows, shoulders, etc..

We waited smirking for the park keepers...

We did have them baffled for about ten minutes. Then the clever one
solved the problem.

"Regulation 57 says that you must do anything a park keeper tells you
to do in pursuance of his duties. In pursuance of my duties I'm
telling you ****'s to get off that ****ing cliff!"

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Following up to Chris Malcolm

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't think many will get across Yewbarrow without using hands.

But one hand might well be enough. She might also be able to use a
closed fist rather than a hand grab?

Its so difficult to advise, isn't it? My recollection of the
descent to Dore Head is that you have both arms and legs
outstretched a couple of times and you wouldn't choose to be
there with one hand in use, well, perhaps *you* would :-)
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"

In message <[email hidden]>, Chris Malcolm
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

The Reid said:

Following up to Rab C Nesbitt

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"needing" hands for the walk (almost nowhere on the Lakes hills "walking"

Quoted message said:

I don't think many will get across Yewbarrow without using hands.

But one hand might well be enough. She might also be able to use a
closed fist rather than a hand grab?

I once used to practice climb with friends on some crags where it was
illegal to use one's hands (the local definition of "climbing"😉. We
found quite a serious looking climb which we worked out how to climb
with hands in pockets by using elbows, shoulders, etc..

We waited smirking for the park keepers...

We did have them baffled for about ten minutes. Then the clever one
solved the problem.

"Regulation 57 says that you must do anything a park keeper tells you
to do in pursuance of his duties. In pursuance of my duties I'm
telling you ****'s to get off that ****ing cliff!"

Salisbury Crags?
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

Chris Malcolm said:

It might be useful to put a small sling round the neck she can prop

You know what you're starting there, do you... ;-)
--
Rudi Winter, Aberystwyth, Wales