More Vee brake misery

raisethe wrote on 17/02/2007 20:02 +0100:

Quoted message said:

I have an Avid v brake fitted on the front of my bike. When I replace
the front wheel, I find that the quick release does not centre
properly, leaving the brake rubbing on either one side or t'other. It
usually takes about 20 minutes of continually inserting and replacing
the wheel before I either get a free moving front wheel or give up in
frustration and accept a rubbing brake pad.

My novice question is, is it normal for a quick release wheel not to
find its central position when it is installed? That is, is wheel
replacement on modern bikes a finely tuned skill (which I clearly
don't have and will never be able to pick up)? Vee brakes run so close
to the rim that if the wheel is just a tiny bit off centre I seem to
get problems.

Your problem is the axle is not seating down properly in the drop out.
Put the wheel on the bike, tighten up the QR, stand the bike on its
wheels, press down on the top of the stem while loosening and
retightening the QR. Adjust the brakes to clear the wheel. If you
repeat the wheel insertion procedure each time in future you should find
the brakes now run free every time.

--
Tony

"...has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least
wildly inaccurate..."
Douglas Adams; The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

raisethe said:

I have an Avid v brake fitted on the front of my bike. When I
replace the front wheel, I find that the quick release does not
centre properly, leaving the brake rubbing on either one side or
t'other. It usually takes about 20 minutes of continually inserting
and replacing the wheel before I either get a free moving front
wheel or give up in frustration and accept a rubbing brake pad.

My novice question is, is it normal for a quick release wheel not to
find its central position when it is installed? That is, is wheel
replacement on modern bikes a finely tuned skill (which I clearly
don't have and will never be able to pick up)? Vee brakes run so
close to the rim that if the wheel is just a tiny bit off centre I
seem to get problems.

I dunno if this is absolutely-the-wrong-thing-to-do or not but I've
always put the wheel in and held the brake on while doing up the QR.
If the tension on each side of your brakes is the same (or close
enough), this should work a treat.

Chris
--
Chris Eilbeck

"raisethe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Vee brakes run so close

Quoted message said:

to the rim that if the wheel is just a tiny bit off centre I seem to get
problems.

Isn't that what the spring adjusters on the V brakes are for? Little screws
with springs on them to adjust the centre of the brakes.....

Jc.

In article <[email hidden]>,
raisethe
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I have an Avid v brake fitted on the front of my bike. When I replace
the front wheel, I find that the quick release does not centre
properly, leaving the brake rubbing on either one side or t'other. It
usually takes about 20 minutes of continually inserting and replacing
the wheel before I either get a free moving front wheel or give up in
frustration and accept a rubbing brake pad.

You shouldn't have to adjust the wheel to suit the brakes.

Quoted message said:

My novice question is, is it normal for a quick release wheel not to
find its central position when it is installed? That is, is wheel
replacement on modern bikes a finely tuned skill (which I clearly
don't have and will never be able to pick up)?

Put the axle in the dropouts, push it up firmly (if the bike's in a
workstand - I usually use my knee to do this) or push the bike down on
the wheel (if the bike's standing on the ground) and flip the QR. The
wheel should always end up in pretty much the same position - if it
doesn't the axle might be bent or ground away, or in the case of a front
wheel the wheel may be dished wrong and you've put it back in the other
way around.

Quoted message said:

Vee brakes run so close
to the rim that if the wheel is just a tiny bit off centre I seem to
get problems.

Once the brakes are set up you shouldn't need to adjust them when
refitting a wheel unless they've been knocked or pulled off centre.

Quoted message said:

Alternatively, is there something wrong with my quick release
mechanism? I have noticed that the axle through which the quick
release goes only has three threads showing on each side of the hub.
Is that sufficient, or could it be the cause of my problem?

Should be plenty as long as the components are reasonable quality and in
good condition.

raisethe said:

My novice question is, is it normal for a quick release wheel not to
find its central position when it is installed?

IME, yes, but only very slightly off.

Quoted message said:

That is, is wheel
replacement on modern bikes a finely tuned skill (which I clearly
don't have and will never be able to pick up)?

I don't think so (I can manage it anyway!)

I find that the rotation of the axle affects the centering of the wheel. Try
putting the bike upside down, and rotating the axle with you hand (you
should be able to grip it near the dustcaps), and watch to see if the
centering changes. When I do this on any of my bikes I find it affects the
centering of the wheel.

If this is the problem, you can either do it everytime you put the wheel in
(only takes 30 seconds), but it's probably just as quick to use the
adjustment screw. I have to do it by rotating the axle on one of my bikes
because I use hydraulic rim brakes which don't have a centering adjustment.

Quoted message said:

Vee brakes run so close
to the rim that if the wheel is just a tiny bit off centre I seem to
get problems.

Mind aren't *that* close, I wonder if that's part of your problem?

Anthony

in message <[email hidden]>,

raisethe (') said:

My novice question is, is it normal for a quick release wheel not to
find its central position when it is installed? That is, is wheel
replacement on modern bikes a finely tuned skill (which I clearly
don't have and will never be able to pick up)? Vee brakes run so close
to the rim that if the wheel is just a tiny bit off centre I seem to
get problems.

Alternatively, is there something wrong with my quick release
mechanism? I have noticed that the axle through which the quick
release goes only has three threads showing on each side of the hub.
Is that sufficient, or could it be the cause of my problem?

One thing that no-one else has mentioned is the little conical springs on
each end of the quick-release spindle. These are designed to automatically
centre the wheel. They must both be present, one on each side of the
wheel, and installed with their small ends pointing inwards towards the
wheel. Having one missing, or installed back to front, will cause the
symptoms you report.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

... a mild, inoffensive sadist...

Simon Brooke said:

One thing that no-one else has mentioned is the little conical springs on
each end of the quick-release spindle. These are designed to automatically
centre the wheel. They must both be present, one on each side of the
wheel, and installed with their small ends pointing inwards towards the
wheel. Having one missing, or installed back to front, will cause the
symptoms you report.

That's not really what they are for. I doubt those springs are strong
enough to influence wheel position when the QR is done up.

--
Mike
Van Tuyl titanium Dura Ace 10
Fausto Coppi aluminium Ultegra 10
Raleigh Record Sprint mongrel

Josey' nospam@josey said:

"raisethe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Vee brakes run so close

Quoted message said:

to the rim that if the wheel is just a tiny bit off centre I seem to get
problems.

Isn't that what the spring adjusters on the V brakes are for? Little screws
with springs on them to adjust the centre of the brakes.....

Jc.

Yes that's right - there's a centering screw on each side where the
calipers pivot around the bosses. Tighten the screw on the side where
the brake block rubs against the rim and it will pull the arm away
from the rim.

http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=21

Regards,

Duncan

In article <[email hidden]>, Simon
Brooke
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

One thing that no-one else has mentioned is the little conical springs on
each end of the quick-release spindle. These are designed to automatically
centre the wheel.

They're designed to help the QR clear the dropouts - they won't make any
difference to where the wheel ends up when you tighten the skewer.

I am the local bike-fixer for dads, mums, kids - my outrageous charge
for my services is two pints from dad up the local (more is always
accepted!). Whenever I get a bike in that has got Vee brakes I know
they are going to be impossible to adjust properly. One pad rubs on
the wheel whatever you do - in short the whole design is [censored] and will
not work.

In my 40 years plus of cycling - for what my opinion is worth - the
best brakes for all round use are centre pull. If either front or back
wheel is slightly out of the centre position in the stays/forks you
simply adjust the centre line of the callipers and they hit the rim in
unison.

citizen142 wrote on 18/02/2007 12:54 +0100:

Quoted message said:

I am the local bike-fixer for dads, mums, kids - my outrageous charge
for my services is two pints from dad up the local (more is always
accepted!). Whenever I get a bike in that has got Vee brakes I know
they are going to be impossible to adjust properly. One pad rubs on
the wheel whatever you do - in short the whole design is [censored] and will
not work.

In my 40 years plus of cycling - for what my opinion is worth - the
best brakes for all round use are centre pull. If either front or back
wheel is slightly out of the centre position in the stays/forks you
simply adjust the centre line of the callipers and they hit the rim in
unison.

Funny, I've never had a problem centring v-brakes unless they are really
cheap ones with no adjustment screw. Even then you can do it with a bit
of judicious spring bending.

--
Tony

"...has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least
wildly inaccurate..."
Douglas Adams; The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

citizen142 said:

I am the local bike-fixer for dads, mums, kids - my outrageous charge
for my services is two pints from dad up the local (more is always
accepted!). Whenever I get a bike in that has got Vee brakes I know
they are going to be impossible to adjust properly. One pad rubs on
the wheel whatever you do - in short the whole design is [censored] and will
not work.

I have to differ here, 'V' brakes offer exceptional braking power, are
extremely simple to maintain, and easy to adjust. Once a year I tweak
an adjuster screw if they are a bit off. They can be removed in the
twinkling of an eye or just unhooked to remove the wheel.

Quoted message said:

In my 40 years plus of cycling - for what my opinion is worth - the
best brakes for all round use are centre pull. If either front or back
wheel is slightly out of the centre position in the stays/forks you
simply adjust the centre line of the callipers and they hit the rim in
unison.

40 years ago I would have agreed with you, the old Weinmann centre pulls
were excellent, but they were hard to remove by comparison, used an
extra (straddle) cable, and although performed well, not as good as a
'V'. Faced with cantilever/centre pull, I'd probably go with centre
pull, but 'V' brakes? No competition.

Now disc brakes, another step in the right direction ;-)

"citizen142" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am the local bike-fixer for dads, mums, kids - my outrageous charge
for my services is two pints from dad up the local (more is always
accepted!). Whenever I get a bike in that has got Vee brakes I know
they are going to be impossible to adjust properly. One pad rubs on
the wheel whatever you do - in short the whole design is [censored] and will
not work.

In my 40 years plus of cycling - for what my opinion is worth - the
best brakes for all round use are centre pull. If either front or back
wheel is slightly out of the centre position in the stays/forks you
simply adjust the centre line of the callipers and they hit the rim in
unison.

[censored] v-brakes are [censored]. Good v-brakes are good. The [censored] ones are difficult
to centre because the pivots are generally naff, but a decent set costs all
of a tenner...

In article <[email hidden]>, citizen142
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I am the local bike-fixer for dads, mums, kids - my outrageous charge
for my services is two pints from dad up the local (more is always
accepted!). Whenever I get a bike in that has got Vee brakes I know
they are going to be impossible to adjust properly. One pad rubs on
the wheel whatever you do - in short the whole design is [censored] and will
not work.

Maybe they have a different sort of V-brake on your planet - the ones
here on Earth are fine if they're properly set up.

Quoted message said:

In my 40 years plus of cycling - for what my opinion is worth - the
best brakes for all round use are centre pull.

I used to have them on my hack/touring bikes, and they were pretty good,
but then dual-pivot sidepulls came along which are basically the same
thing in a neater package.

Quoted message said:

If either front or back
wheel is slightly out of the centre position in the stays/forks you
simply adjust the centre line of the callipers and they hit the rim in
unison.

Except that raises one block and lowers the other, so you need to adjust
the blocks too. With a V-brake all you have to do is adjust the set
screw on one of the arms.

In article <[email hidden]>, Tosspot
[email hidden] says...
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Faced with cantilever/centre pull, I'd probably go with centre
pull, but 'V' brakes? No competition.

What's wrong with cantilevers? Properly set up they're just as good as
V-brakes, although not quite as neat because of the separate cable
hanger and the way they stick out a bit more.

"Rob Morley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Tosspot
[email hidden] says...
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Faced with cantilever/centre pull, I'd probably go with centre
pull, but 'V' brakes? No competition.

What's wrong with cantilevers?

They're a complete PITA to set up?

cheers,
clive

raisethe said:

My novice question is, is it normal for a quick release wheel not to
find its central position when it is installed? That is, is wheel
replacement on modern bikes a finely tuned skill (which I clearly
don't have and will never be able to pick up)? Vee brakes run so close
to the rim that if the wheel is just a tiny bit off centre I seem to
get problems.

As I have no access to your wheel I have no idea if something is
wrong with your technique or if it is your equipment.
I have very little clearance between brake blocks and rims. I have
recently trued the wheel (it is a "cheapie" wheel and getting the chaps
in an LBS to do it would probably cost more than a new wheel).
Personal experience is all I have but have only ever experienced the
problems you describe when I have put the front wheel back on but the QR
axle is not properly in the drop outs, however releasing the Q/R
reseating the axle and doing up the Q/R again ALWAYS sorts this problem
I have never resorted to adjusting the brakes (pivots/springs/adjusting
screws, WHY)for this .
Have you checked your axle is straight and that it does not have any
flat spots.

I am no bicycle expert and the bike I am talking about is the
cheapest in the EBC "mountain bike" range, circa £200.
http://www.edinburgh-bicycle.co.uk/catalogue/detail.cfm?ID=22630

--
Let's at least ask someone who's going to give us a slightly more
intelligent opinion. Hello wall, what do you think?

www.cheesesoup.myby.co.uk

in message <[email hidden]>, Rob Morley

(') said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Tosspot
[email hidden] says...
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Faced with cantilever/centre pull, I'd probably go with centre
pull, but 'V' brakes? No competition.

What's wrong with cantilevers? Properly set up they're just as good as
V-brakes, although not quite as neat because of the separate cable
hanger and the way they stick out a bit more.

Disagree. I think cantis are definitely preferable to Vs. They're
definitely as powerful, and in my opinion easier to set up.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

-- mens vacua in medio vacuo --

In article <[email hidden]>, Clive
George
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

"Rob Morley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Tosspot
[email hidden] says...
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Faced with cantilever/centre pull, I'd probably go with centre
pull, but 'V' brakes? No competition.

What's wrong with cantilevers?

They're a complete PITA to set up?

I've not found that to generally be the case. I'm not fond of the
Shimano ones with the silly straddle-wire thingy, but that's easily
fixed by fitting a conventional straddle and bridge.