More touirng bike questions please?

Quoted message said:

Some more questions abt various touring bike options:

1. Brakes. Do all touring bike shave canti-lever? If
yes...why? Wouldn't something like V brakes used on mt
bikes work as well?

2. Folders. Is a folding touring bike inherently going
to make less sense...more trouble? Should one stick
with normal non-folding diamond frames?

3. Rim size. 700c vs 26"? is this a non -issue really?
Or some merit to using 26" rims for touring bikes?

One other question...

What abt carbon fiber components on touring bikes? Such
as carbon handlebars to absorb some road shock?

And for that matter what abt handlebar "shape"?
Moustache bars, drops, what?

Thanks guys!!!

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Some more questions abt various touring bike options:

1. Brakes. Do all touring bike shave canti-lever? If
yes...why? Wouldn't something like V brakes used on mt
bikes work as well?

Cantis work with drop bar levers without travel adapters, so that's why
they're commonly used. If you're using straight bars Vs are a better choice.
Or there's hydraulic rim brakes :-)

Quoted message said:

2. Folders. Is a folding touring bike inherently going
to make less sense...more trouble? Should one stick
with normal non-folding diamond frames?

Folders will inevitably be compromised - as will all bikes. Choice of bike
depends on what you want it for. S+S couplings are a moderately popular
choice for collapsing tourers. For a tourer for my purposes, I'd get a
conventional rigid DF.

Quoted message said:

3. Rim size. 700c vs 26"? is this a non -issue really?
Or some merit to using 26" rims for touring bikes?

Thorn are a pretty well respected manufacturer of touring bikes here in the
UK. They use 26" because the wheels are stronger - they aim their stronger
bikes at the full loaded expedition tourer, though they also use the same
wheels on their lighter ones.

Others use 700c because they're good enough. Personally I'd probably use the
big rims for a single tourer for me, and 26" for a tourer for my wife
because she's rather smaller than me. But since we use a tandem for that
job, the question is moot - it gets 26" wheels for the strength.

cheers,
clive

Quoted message said:

Some more questions abt various touring bike options:

1. Brakes. Do all touring bike shave canti-lever? If
yes...why? Wouldn't something like V brakes used on mt
bikes work as well?

Cantis work well enough, are traditional, work with combo shifter/
brake levers, tolerate slightly untrue rims, and can clear huge tires
and fenders. V-brakes are great, easy to set up, and work well with
bar end shifters and specific levers, the new Tektros being especially
nice and inexpensive.

Quoted message said:

2. Folders. Is a folding touring bike inherently going
to make less sense...more trouble? Should one stick
with normal non-folding diamond frames?

A folder can be a solution depending on the problem. A regular diamond
frame is the best bet for most folks.

Quoted message said:

3. Rim size. 700c vs 26"? is this a non -issue really?
Or some merit to using 26" rims for touring bikes?

Non-issue for the most part. However, if you run over some re-bar in
Bumfuque Missouri, the Xmart will have a perfectly decent 26" tire.
26" is also good to keep smaller frames proportional, like how Surly
does with the LHT.

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:
What abt carbon fiber components on touring bikes? Such
as carbon handlebars to absorb some road shock?

Forget carbon bars. First, one small fall and it can crack. That's
what happened to my friend. His Merlin bike was leaning against the
wall. A big gust of wind came along and knocked his bike down. When he
started riding, his carbon h-bar started creaking. He rode home
gently, unraveled the tape and the bar was cracked! He tried to get it
warrantied, but the mfr denied it. He now has a nice Ritchey ALUMINUM
handlebar.

As for comfort, carbon bar does NOT absorb any road shock. If that is
a concern, try wider tires at a lower psi, i.e., 700x25/28 at
85-90psi. Wider tires = more air volume = need for less psi = comfort!

Quoted message said:

And for that matter what abt handlebar "shape"?
Moustache bars, drops, what?

Like saddles, handlebar shape is a personal preference. Most people
prefer drop bars because it gives you more places to move around. Try
it out and see for yourself. Good Luck!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Some more questions abt various touring bike options:

Quoted message said:

1. Brakes. Do all touring bike shave canti-lever? If
yes...why? Wouldn't something like V brakes used on mt
bikes work as well?

Quoted message said:

2. Folders. Is a folding touring bike inherently going
to make less sense...more trouble? Should one stick
with normal non-folding diamond frames?

Quoted message said:

3. Rim size. 700c vs 26"? is this a non -issue really?
Or some merit to using 26" rims for touring bikes?

One other question...

What abt carbon fiber components on touring bikes? Such
as carbon handlebars to absorb some road shock?

Nonsense. Use wide enough tires to act as suspension and you won't
need plastic handlebars.

Quoted message said:

And for that matter what abt handlebar "shape"?
Moustache bars, drops, what?

Nitto Maes, Noodle, or Randonneur are great and pretty inexpensive to
try. I like moustache bars, but they're not great for epic rides as
they're too wide, IMHO. I can ride flat bars further with less
discomfort. Don't make the mistake of getting too wide a bar like the
Rivendell set will lead you to believe is good--unless you happen to
be broad shouldered. Moderate width drops at saddle height works for
most folks and is a good place to start.

Quoted message said:

Some more questions abt various touring bike options:

1. Brakes. Do all touring bike shave canti-lever? If
yes...why? Wouldn't something like V brakes used on mt
bikes work as well?

Yes, but there's only one drop-bar brake lever on the market that will
operate V brakes correctly. For any other lever, you're stuck with
using a weird adaptor. Cantis are excellent. Use Kool-Stop pads.

Quoted message said:

2. Folders. Is a folding touring bike inherently going
to make less sense...more trouble? Should one stick
with normal non-folding diamond frames?

Stick with a conventional frame. I've got a Friday NWT and a
Cannondale touring bike. The Friday's great for travel, but there's
no way I'd pick it for a long tour that didn't need the folding
feature. The Cannondale rolls easier, carries loads easier, shifts
better (as mentioned in the other thread), accepts accessories more
easily, and doesn't try to topple over when I straddle it at a stop
light. (Top tubes are useful!)

- Frank Krygowski

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Some more questions abt various touring bike options:

Quoted message said:

1. Brakes. Do all touring bike shave canti-lever? If
yes...why? Wouldn't something like V brakes used on mt
bikes work as well?

Yes, but there's only one drop-bar brake lever on the market that will
operate V brakes correctly. For any other lever, you're stuck with
using a weird adaptor. Cantis are excellent. Use Kool-Stop pads.

Not true as of last year. Tektro makes the quite excellent RL520 which
retails for $25 on the street. Add some cheap and cheerful Tektro 839
vees at $15 per end, and you get a brake set that stops excellently
for under sixty bucks. If you want lizards on the hoods, Cane Creek
rebrands the same levers for $25 more.

http://www.bikemannetwork.com/biking/p/COMPBRKLEVRD/BR7212

I resisted vees till I got some cheap Tektros on the city scoot last
year and learned to dial them in. I like cantis--I'd run them on a
cross bike for sure, but for utility and general use, I'm sold on the
simplicity and power of vees, especially now that a cheap road lever
is available.

if short go with 26" wheels.
on 700c, 35 rear tires are needed for a camping load. After many
miles, conclusion here is 32 rears are cafe touring.

datakoll said:

if short go with 26" wheels.
on 700c, 35 rear tires are needed for a camping load. After many
miles, conclusion here is 32 rears are cafe touring.

exapnding on that thought:
32 wide tires at camping loads restrict tire function by slightly
overwhelming the design parameters. When camp touring riding on a
quality Conti, Pasela, uh Scwlabe, you're wasting casue the 32 rear
tire isnot gonna deliver.

landotter said:

Quoted message said:

... there's only one drop-bar brake lever on the market that will
operate V brakes correctly.

Not true as of last year. Tektro makes the quite excellent RL520 which
retails for $25 on the street.

Ah. Didn't know that. Thanks.

- Frank Krygowski

Quoted message said:

landotter said:

Quoted message said:

... there's only one drop-bar brake lever on the market that will
operate V brakes correctly.

Quoted message said:

Not true as of last year. Tektro makes the quite excellent RL520 which
retails for $25 on the street.

Ah. Didn't know that. Thanks.

Yup, you can get them for even cheaper if you look around. The lever
has a QR so you can remove often remove wheels without undoing the
noodle. Very comfy hood.

Quoted message said:

Some more questions abt various touring bike options:

1. Brakes. Do all touring bike shave canti-lever? If
yes...why? Wouldn't something like V brakes used on mt
bikes work as well?

The problem is that it's hard to design a dropped-bar brake lever that
pulls enough cable for a V-brake. Dia-Compe 287V levers claim to, but
IME are pretty hopeless. Tektro have a new design which may work
better. If you have flat bars and MTB levers, you might as well use
V-brakes.

Quoted message said:

2. Folders. Is a folding touring bike inherently going
to make less sense...more trouble? Should one stick
with normal non-folding diamond frames?

Yes, because it has to be strong and rigid enougth to carry luggage.
S&S couplings are one solution to making a conventional frame separable,
although expensive.

Quoted message said:

3. Rim size. 700c vs 26"? is this a non -issue really?
Or some merit to using 26" rims for touring bikes?

I would go 700c, because I have a 26" wheeled touring bike (Thorn) and
*road* tyre choice is very poor indeed in that size. I've settled on
Schwalbe Stelvio 26 x 1.125", but they're not perfect.

landotter said:

I resisted vees till I got some cheap Tektros on the city scoot last
year and learned to dial them in. I like cantis--I'd run them on a
cross bike for sure

why would you use cantis on the cross bike for sure?

Zog The Undeniable said:

The problem is that it's hard to design a dropped-bar brake lever that
pulls enough cable for a V-brake. Dia-Compe 287V levers claim to, but
IME are pretty hopeless.

What didn't you like about them? I have them ony my touring bike with
V-brakes and they work quite well for me.

--
K.

Lang may your lum reek.

Quoted message said:

landotter said:

I resisted vees till I got some cheap Tektros on the city scoot last
year and learned to dial them in. I like cantis--I'd run them on a
cross bike for sure

why would you use cantis on the cross bike for sure?

Simply put, the brake pad on a vee will move less with a stroke of the
lever than a canti with the appropriate levers for both. This means
that you need to set vees closer to the rim and that cantis can be let
to fall back further from the rim and still be in proper adjustment,
increasing mud clearance. This varies among different canti designs. I
am not a crosser--have a google--there is a lot of design madness when
it comes to cross and cantis. I'd probably just use some Tektro Oryx
and avoid the headache of thinking too much.

Zog The Undeniable said:

Quoted message said:

Some more questions abt various touring bike options:

1. Brakes. Do all touring bike shave canti-lever? If
yes...why? Wouldn't something like V brakes used on mt
bikes work as well?

The problem is that it's hard to design a dropped-bar brake lever that
pulls enough cable for a V-brake. Dia-Compe 287V levers claim to, but
IME are pretty hopeless. Tektro have a new design which may work
better. If you have flat bars and MTB levers, you might as well use
V-brakes.

Ahh...so its a function of the handlebars more than
anything, yes? IOW.... it depends on whether you have
drop bars or flat or moustache bars as to what kind of
brakes one can use? And the levers that will fit on
those bars and the mechanics involved.

Quoted message said:

I would go 700c, because I have a 26" wheeled touring bike (Thorn) and
*road* tyre choice is very poor indeed in that size. I've settled on
Schwalbe Stelvio 26 x 1.125", but they're not perfect.

Hmmm..... I've always wanted a Thorn bike but it sounds
like you make a god argument for NOT having 26" wheels!

How do you like the Thorn?

Quoted message said:

Zog The Undeniable said:

Quoted message said:

Some more questions abt various touring bike options:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

1. Brakes. Do all touring bike shave canti-lever? If
yes...why? Wouldn't something like V brakes used on mt
bikes work as well?

Quoted message said:

The problem is that it's hard to design a dropped-bar brake lever that
pulls enough cable for a V-brake. Dia-Compe 287V levers claim to, but
IME are pretty hopeless. Tektro have a new design which may work
better. If you have flat bars and MTB levers, you might as well use
V-brakes.

Ahh...so its a function of the handlebars more than
anything, yes? IOW.... it depends on whether you have
drop bars or flat or moustache bars as to what kind of
brakes one can use?

No. It depends on cable pull. There is regular cable pull for cantis
and caliper brakes, like what you see on traditional road, bmx, and
old mtbs, then there is long pull for vees and most cable discs. You
can get Tektro or Diacompe levers for road bikes that do long pull.

Quoted message said:

And the levers that will fit on
those bars and the mechanics involved.

Quoted message said:

I would go 700c, because I have a 26" wheeled touring bike (Thorn) and
*road* tyre choice is very poor indeed in that size. I've settled on
Schwalbe Stelvio 26 x 1.125", but they're not perfect.

Hmmm..... I've always wanted a Thorn bike but it sounds
like you make a god argument for NOT having 26" wheels!

Doesn't sound like a great argument unless you're really really picky.
I just went to the mass market website of Performance--a good half
dozen 26" tires you could tour on. I like their house brand ST or ST/
K. Light, supple, and cheap. I've run the plain STs and loved them on
an old mtb. Did I mention they're cheap? $8 right now. To be honest, I
haven't run them in brutal conditions, but they did just great in
urban detritus. I've run the same tire in 700c by Performance as well
and it was also very nice. Made by Cheng Shin, AKA Maxxis.

landotter said:

Doesn't sound like a great argument unless you're really really picky.
I just went to the mass market website of Performance--a good half
dozen 26" tires you could tour on. I like their house brand ST or ST/
K. Light, supple, and cheap. I've run the plain STs and loved them on
an old mtb. Did I mention they're cheap? $8 right now. To be honest, I
haven't run them in brutal conditions, but they did just great in
urban detritus. I've run the same tire in 700c by Performance as well
and it was also very nice. Made by Cheng Shin, AKA Maxxis

Good to hear as I'm attracted to the idea of smaller
wheels on a touring bike... maybe not as small as the
20" Bike Friday wheels..but smaller than the 700c of
the Randonee.

I know this sounds crazy but a smaller wheel makes for
a bike that isn't so massive... makes it easier to
handle up and down stairs and thru doors. Can also take
the front wheel off a 26"wheeled bike and it fits
better in the car when hauling the bike somewhere.

Quoted message said:

landotter said:

Doesn't sound like a great argument unless you're really really picky.
I just went to the mass market website of Performance--a good half
dozen 26" tires you could tour on. I like their house brand ST or ST/
K. Light, supple, and cheap. I've run the plain STs and loved them on
an old mtb. Did I mention they're cheap? $8 right now. To be honest, I
haven't run them in brutal conditions, but they did just great in
urban detritus. I've run the same tire in 700c by Performance as well
and it was also very nice. Made by Cheng Shin, AKA Maxxis

Good to hear as I'm attracted to the idea of smaller
wheels on a touring bike... maybe not as small as the
20" Bike Friday wheels..but smaller than the 700c of
the Randonee.

I know this sounds crazy but a smaller wheel makes for
a bike that isn't so massive... makes it easier to
handle up and down stairs and thru doors. Can also take
the front wheel off a 26"wheeled bike and it fits
better in the car when hauling the bike somewhere.

Oddly enough, you can take the front wheel off a 700c bike, too.

But 26" touring bikes DO have a lot of fans. My current bikes are all
700s but when I had 26"ers I never had problems getting 'touring' or
otherwise mostly slick tires. "City Slickers" were my favorites.