More OT!! Homeland security

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

nationalreview.commccarthy2004043010Open ↗
38.asp Compare this to any other conflict in our history
and you will see that

less

Quoted message said:

American citizens have been detained, or impounded, or
driven out of the country than in any other war. Yet the
rhetoric would say that we have concentration camps
everywhere and Martial law is the rule of the land.

The

Quoted message said:

same people saying this in general are the same people
making excuses when Hamas blows up an Israeli school bus.
People need a reality check, but I'm afraid that a dirty
bomb that wiped out LA would cause MoveOn.org to say

we got

Quoted message said:

what we deserved. Bill C

I don't know what this has to do with cycling, but.....

As far as comparing this to any other war, what are you
going to compare it with? WW2? LOL Please. This is not a
war, it is an invasion to put someone in power to deal with
us on oil. If you don't see that you are blind my friend. We
couldn't deal with Sadaam, so we overthrew their government
and are going to put someone in office that will deal with
us. What is even more sad than that is that we have very
young American and other countries solders getting killed
for this. It makes me sick!

Now, you of course mention Hamas blowing up a bunch of kids
on a school bus to get people on your side or whatever. What
if you were one of the many Palestinians that had his home
bulldozed by "the modern day [censored]" Sharon? If the Jews
didn't invade land that wasn't theirs, maybe there would be
no problems. I also find it interesting that we somehow
justify a tank blowing things up, but when a person blows
himself up in protest and kills people, that is terrorism.
The Israelis have killed many Palestinian children as well.
Of course they say it was accidental fire or some such
nonsense. The US arms the Israeli's to the teeth and they
have superpower weaponry and the Palestinians have sticks
and stones in comparison. This doesn't mean that a tank is
less terroistic than a person blowing themselves up. To be
honest, I feel that if the Israelis didn't take over peoples
land/homes and make it impossible for people to live, we may
not have such a problem over there. Of course the Jews have
a big lobby in this country and they own Bush.. Now that we
have Bush in office he is making this thing a huge mess and
spending countless money on his oil interest. Just think how
much research could have been done with the billions he is
spending on this so called war if he put his efforts in
finding alternative fuel. If we didn't rely on the oil, we
would have no reason to be over there. Well, that would be
thinking into the future and not the present, so that will
never happen.

On good thing came out of this however. The idiots driving
their H2's are spending more money on gas. Not that they
care probably. I mean they are not very bright if they feel
the need to drive a barge that weighs 6000 lbs.

Who knows, maybe some people will get tired of paying so
much at the pump and start riding bicycles more. If you
believe that, then I may have a bridge to sell you.

Enjoy, Curt

"curt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As far as comparing this to any other war, what are you
going to compare

it

Quoted message said:

with? WW2? LOL Please. This is not a war, it is an
invasion to put someone in power to deal with us on oil.

We needn't go any further than this. Let's try to explain
this in words of one syllable so that you can understand it.
This war IS about oil. But not OUR "control" of it but the
free flow of it so that it isn't enriching a dictator who
will use it to fund terrorism to retain his own power.

What has terrorism to do with it you ask? (Not that someone
with so little intelligence as you would EVER ask.) Internal
strife has been used by Arab leaders since the time of
Mohammed himself to turn the eyes of the fedayeen away from
their corrupt leadership and to allow corrupt mullahs and
sheiks to hold onto their own power.

But a simple perusal of history seems to have been beyond
your powers of comprehension.

On 05/01/2004 09:25 PM, in article
[email hidden], "Tom Kunich"

Quoted message said:

"curt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As far as comparing this to any other war, what are you
going to compare

it

Quoted message said:

with? WW2? LOL Please. This is not a war, it is an
invasion to put someone in power to deal with us on oil.

We needn't go any further than this. Let's try to explain
this in words of one syllable so that you can understand
it. This war IS about oil. But not OUR "control" of it but
the free flow of it so that it isn't enriching a dictator
who will use it to fund terrorism to retain his own power.

If this war was about a free flow of oil that wasn't
enriching a dictator who uses to fund terrorism, then we'd
be invading Saudi Arabia instead of Iraq.

Where is Osama bin Laden from? Saudi Arabia. Where were 14-
15 of the 9-11 terrorists from? Saudi Arabia. Where does
most of Al Qaeda's funding come from? Saudi Arabia.

So why are we invading Iraq?

Check gwu.eduNSAEBB82Open ↗ ...
Why look! That's Donald Rumsfeld shaking hands with
Saddam Hussein!

"Trying to eliminate Saddam, extending the ground war
into an occupation of Iraq, would have violated our
guideline about not changing objectives in midstream,
engaging in "mission creep," and would have incurred
incalculable human and political costs. Apprehending him
was probably impossible. We had been unable to find
Noriega in Panama, which we knew intimately. We would
have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule
Iraq. The coalition would instantly have collapsed, the
Arabs deserting it in anger and other allies pulling out
as well. Under those circumstances, furthermore, we had
been self-consciously trying to set a pattern for
handling aggression in the post-cold war world. Going in
and occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the
U.N.'s mandate, would have destroyed the precedent of
international response to aggression we hoped to
establish. Had we gone the invasion route, the U.S. could
conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly
hostile land. It would have been a dramatically different--
and perhaps barren--outcome." -- Former President George
H.W. Bush, Time Magazine, 2 March 1998.

Quoted message said:

What has terrorism to do with it you ask? (Not that
someone with so little intelligence as you would EVER
ask.) Internal strife has been used by Arab leaders since
the time of Mohammed himself to turn the eyes of the
fedayeen away from their corrupt leadership and to allow
corrupt mullahs and sheiks to hold onto their own power.

But a simple perusal of history seems to have been beyond
your powers of comprehension.

--
Steven L. Sheffield stevens at veloworks dot com veloworks
at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net bellum pax est libertas
servitus est ignoratio vis est ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee
sea aye tee why you ti ay aitch aitch tee tea pea colon [for
word] slash [four ward] slash double-you double-yew double-
ewe dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

From: "Tom Kunich" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

But a simple perusal of history seems to have been beyond
your powers of comprehension.

Tom, I'll Give him Sharon is a war criminal and several
people here can
confirm that I've said the POS should be strung up. I bet
he protested the
kilings of the Hamas murderers. Israel has never denied the
Palestinians

right

Quoted message said:

to exist. What has been the Arab view on Israel? Oops they
can say that

they

Quoted message said:

intend to kill all of them because they are an "oppressed"
people.
I'll agree they have been screwed over by the west, and the
catholic

church in

Quoted message said:

particular over the centuries, but the Jews are also a
semitic population native to the area. This is nothing but
religious persecution and civil

war.

Sharon? What the hell has he to do with anything? Do you
suggest that Israel is doing the wrong thing by killing the
leaders of a group who have been strapping explosives onto
women and children to set them off in hordes of innocent
shoppers? Do you forget that one of the prime commandments
of Mohammed after he entered Medina was "kill all Jews".
Followed shortly by "the way to heaven is to kill all
unbelievers."

Palestinians haven't been screwed over by "the west".
They've been screwed over by their Arab brothers since 1948
and even before that. Palestinians came to this country for
education, success and a chance for peaceful lives and
achieved that in spades.

"Steven L. Sheffield" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 05/01/2004 09:25 PM, in article
[email hidden], "Tom

Kunich said:

"curt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As far as comparing this to any other war, what are you
going to

compare

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it with? WW2? LOL Please. This is not a war, it is an
invasion to

put

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

someone in power to deal with us on oil.

We needn't go any further than this. Let's try to
explain this in words

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

one syllable so that you can understand it. This war IS
about oil. But

not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

OUR "control" of it but the free flow of it so that it
isn't enriching a dictator who will use it to fund
terrorism to retain his own power.

If this war was about a free flow of oil that wasn't
enriching a dictator who uses to fund terrorism, then we'd
be invading Saudi Arabia instead of Iraq.

Please feel free to cite anything that shows the controlling
members of Saud royal family involved in any terrorist
activities. Soros has more direct ties with terrorism than
King Ibn al-Azziz. And it is likely that you are more
closely allied with terrorism than the 5,000+ member Saudi
royal family.

But then you are completely responsible for things done by
your 3rd cousin whom you've never met aren't you?

Quoted message said:

Sharon? What the hell has he to do with anything?

Hello? Is there anyone in there? I hope you are kidding
starting out with this first sentence. You don't think
Sharon and our backing of him has no impact on current
conditions. I think you need to do some reading.

Quoted message said:

Do you suggest that Israel is doing the wrong thing by
killing the leaders of a group who have been strapping
explosives onto women and children to set them off in
hordes of innocent shoppers? Do you forget that one of the
prime commandments of Mohammed after he entered Medina was
"kill all Jews". Followed shortly by "the way to heaven is
to kill all unbelievers."

Palestinians haven't been screwed over by "the west".
They've been screwed over by their Arab brothers since
1948 and even before that. Palestinians came to this
country for education, success and a chance for peaceful

lives

Quoted message said:

and achieved that in spades.

I really don't know where to begin? I mean you are so off
base, it would be hard to find a place to start. I really
don't think you have any concept of what is taking place
over there at all. You make it sound like there are people
being forced to strap bombs on themselves and blow people
up. Do you know the Palestinians call those people heroes? I
am sure that sounds outrageous to you, but you are too blind
to notice that all sides call their solders heroes. I don't
think you comprehend that the Palestinian people have no
force at all. Israel is in total control. I wonder if you
would like to have your home run over by a tank and then
know there is absolutely nothing you can do. You can not
fight back because you are completely outmatched. You are
just a slave to what the Israeli's want to do and as we all
know Israelis are just expanding their land and tearing down
Palestinian's homes and building Jewish settlements. Do you
know what kind of leader is in Israel? He was a former hit
man. Oh yeah, and we back him. I can't imagine why we are
hated by Palestinians and much of the Arab world? I guess
everyone just hates us for no reason. In truth we are
bulldozing those homes, because we supply Israel with tons
of funding and let them do what they want.

You need to get a clue. It is apparent you cannot put
yourself in someone else's position.

You are distorted to say the least. Curt

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"curt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As far as comparing this to any other war, what are you
going to compare

it

Quoted message said:

with? WW2? LOL Please. This is not a war, it is an
invasion to put someone in power to deal with us on oil.

We needn't go any further than this. Let's try to explain
this in words of one syllable so that you can understand
it. This war IS about oil. But not OUR "control" of it but
the free flow of it so that it isn't enriching a dictator
who will use it to fund terrorism to retain his own power.

What has terrorism to do with it you ask? (Not that
someone with so little intelligence as you would EVER
ask.) Internal strife has been used by Arab leaders since
the time of Mohammed himself to turn the eyes of the

fedayeen

Quoted message said:

away from their corrupt leadership and to allow corrupt
mullahs and sheiks to hold onto their own power.

But a simple perusal of history seems to have been beyond
your powers of comprehension.

What does Iraq have to do with terrorism? Maybe we should
have invaded Mexico? That is how silly you sound to me. Do
you know that Osama bin Laden hated Sadaam? I thought we
were after Osama for 9/11? What the hell are we doing in
Iraq spending billions and getting our young military
personnel killed? It is no coincidence that our invasion in
Iraq is with a Bush at the helm. Do you know who was
president the last time we messed up over there? Do you know
who the V.P. is in this country now? Do you know what
business he is in and still getting paid from that business
which should be a conflict of interest? Do you know what
state our president is from and what he is all about?

Do you really think we would give a [censored] about Iraq if there
was no oil there? Iraq had no real military at all. They are
and were no threat to our country. There are people that are
a threat this country, but it surely wasn't Iraq as a
country. Osama had nothing to do with Iraq. It also seems
that he is roaming around the world still. Although part of
me thinks he is caught and they are waiting to get closer to
the election to announce it. Time will tell.

Curt

In article <[email hidden]>,

(TritonRider) said:

Quoted message said:

From: "Tom Kunich" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

But a simple perusal of history seems to have been beyond
your powers of comprehension.

Tom, I'll Give him Sharon is a war criminal and several
people here can confirm that I've said the POS should be
strung up. I bet he protested the kilings of the Hamas
murderers. Israel has never denied the Palestinians right
to exist.

Never in so many words, but their actions speak fairly
loudly on that front, imo.

Quoted message said:

What has been the Arab view on Israel? Oops they can say
that they
intend to kill all of them because they are an "oppressed"
people.

It's certain that the militant ones and Palestinians
that're shoved into the "refugee camps" probably do
think like that. But it's interesting to note that in
areas of Israel where the Israeli govt. is not seizing
land, olive orchards, etc., they actually get on rather
well. How to get them all to behave like that? That's a
tough one, but the settlements and wall building ending
would be a start...

--
tanx, Howard

"Moby [censored] was a work of art, What the hell
happened?"

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

I appreciate all of the thought, logic, and energy that is
going into this set of posts as well as the posts about the
economics of the US Postal Service, et al... Can someone
remind me what all of this has to do with bicycle racing?

I'm sure there are other places where we can debate
this stuff...

"curt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"curt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As far as comparing this to any other war, what are
you going to

compare

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it

Quoted message said:

with? WW2? LOL Please. This is not a war, it is an
invasion to put someone in power to deal with us on
oil.

We needn't go any further than this. Let's try to
explain this in words

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

one syllable so that you can understand it. This war IS
about oil. But

not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

OUR "control" of it but the free flow of it so that it
isn't enriching a dictator who will use it to fund
terrorism to retain his own power.

What has terrorism to do with it you ask? (Not that
someone with so

little

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

intelligence as you would EVER ask.) Internal strife has
been used by

Arab

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

leaders since the time of Mohammed himself to turn the
eyes of the

fedayeen

Quoted message said:

away from their corrupt leadership and to allow corrupt
mullahs and

sheiks

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to hold onto their own power.

But a simple perusal of history seems to have been
beyond your powers of comprehension.

What does Iraq have to do with terrorism? Maybe we should
have invaded Mexico? That is how silly you sound to me. Do
you know that Osama bin Laden hated Sadaam? I thought we
were after Osama for 9/11? What the

hell

Quoted message said:

are we doing in Iraq spending billions and getting our
young military personnel killed? It is no coincidence that
our invasion in Iraq is with

a

Quoted message said:

Bush at the helm. Do you know who was president the last
time we messed

up

Quoted message said:

over there? Do you know who the V.P. is in this country
now? Do you know what business he is in and still getting
paid from that business which should be a conflict of
interest? Do you know what state our president is from and
what he is all about?

Do you really think we would give a [censored] about Iraq if
there was no oil there? Iraq had no real military at all.
They are and were no threat to our country. There are
people that are a threat this country, but it

surely

Quoted message said:

wasn't Iraq as a country. Osama had nothing to do with
Iraq. It also

seems

Quoted message said:

that he is roaming around the world still. Although part
of me thinks he

is

Quoted message said:

caught and they are waiting to get closer to the election
to announce it. Time will tell.

Curt

On 05/01/2004 10:10 PM, in article
[email hidden], "Tom Kunich"

Quoted message said:

"Steven L. Sheffield" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 05/01/2004 09:25 PM, in article
[email hidden], "Tom

Kunich said:

"curt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
>
> As far as comparing this to any other war, what are you
> going to

compare

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> it with? WW2? LOL Please. This is not a war, it is an
> invasion to

put

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> someone in power to deal with us on oil.

We needn't go any further than this. Let's try to
explain this in words

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

one syllable so that you can understand it. This war IS
about oil. But

not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

OUR "control" of it but the free flow of it so that it
isn't enriching a dictator who will use it to fund
terrorism to retain his own power.

If this war was about a free flow of oil that wasn't
enriching a dictator who uses to fund terrorism, then
we'd be invading Saudi Arabia instead of Iraq.

Please feel free to cite anything that shows the
controlling members of Saud royal family involved in any
terrorist activities. Soros has more direct ties with
terrorism than King Ibn al-Azziz. And it is likely that
you are more closely allied with terrorism than the 5,000+
member Saudi royal family.

truthout.org080303A.shtmlOpen ↗

jinsa.orgcOpen ↗
ategoryid/884/doc umentid/1729/history/3,2360,884,1729

cooperativeresearch.orgwallstreetOpen ↗
journal100203.htm l

cnn.comterrorism.reportOpen ↗

sptimes.comThe Saudi money tOpen ↗
rail.shtml

newsmax.com165946.shOpen ↗
tml

newsmax.com18Open ↗
2314.shtml

newsmax.com15Open ↗
3053.shtml

Quoted message said:

But then you are completely responsible for things done by
your 3rd cousin whom you've never met aren't you?

--
Steven L. Sheffield stevens at veloworks dot com veloworks
at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net bellum pax est libertas
servitus est ignoratio vis est ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee
sea aye tee why you ti ay aitch aitch tee tea pea colon [for
word] slash [four ward] slash double-you double-yew double-
ewe dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash

Tom Kunich said:

Please feel free to cite anything that shows the
controlling members of Saud royal family involved in any
terrorist activities.

Please feel free to cite anything that shows Saddam was
involved in 9-11.
--

--------------------

Remove CLOTHES to reply

In article <[email hidden]>,

(TritonRider) said:

Quoted message said:

From: "Tom Kunich" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Sharon? What the hell has he to do with anything? Do you
suggest that Israel is doing the wrong thing by killing
the leaders of a group who have been strapping explosives
onto women and children to set them off in hordes of
innocent shoppers?

Tom look back at his record in the earlier wars, they
read like an Nazi SD training manual. I think Israel was
perfectly justified in targeting and killing the
militant leaders since they have the complete protection
of Syria, Jordan, and Lebanon at a minimum and the UN
will never try a Palestinian militant for crimes against
humanity. <snip>

Quoted message said:

Do you forget that one of the prime commandments of
Mohammed after he entered Medina was "kill all Jews".
Followed shortly by "the way to heaven is to kill all
unbelievers."

That's obviously in a Koran I haven't read, or the
histories of the Arab Peoples that I have here in the
house. The Arabs were actually incredibly tolerant up
until the crusaders showed up.

I'll bet it comes from (directly or otherwise) an
editorial by Falwell, which is filled with misquoted,
misattributed and generally botched quotes from the
Koran. This editorial has made the rounds a bunch of anti-
Muslim sites and via people like Coulter.

Example: "Slay the enemy where you find him." (Surah
9:92).

Surah 9:92 actually says : Nor (is there blame) on those who
came to thee to be provided with mounts, and when thou
saidst, "I can find no mounts for you," they turned back,
their eyes streaming with tears of grief that they had no
resources wherewith to provide the expenses .

--
tanx, Howard

"Moby [censored] was a work of art, What the hell
happened?"

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Tom Kunich said:

Quoted message said:

Let's try to explain this in words of one syllable so that
you can understand it.

and

Quoted message said:

What has terrorism to do with it you ask? (Not that
someone with so little intelligence as you would
EVER ask.)

and

Quoted message said:

But a simple perusal of history seems to have been beyond
your powers of comprehension.

what's the point of being so mean and trying to polarize
everything? it makes my head hurt, and then i don't read
your posts for the next week or so. curt doesn't sound like
he deserves to be treated like [censored].

heather

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

nationalreview.commccarthy2004043010Open ↗
38.asp Compare this to any other conflict in our history
and you will see that

less

Quoted message said:

American citizens have been detained, or impounded, or
driven out of the country than in any other war. Yet the
rhetoric would say that we have concentration camps
everywhere and Martial law is the rule of the land.

The

Quoted message said:

same people saying this in general are the same people
making excuses when Hamas blows up an Israeli school bus.
People need a reality check, but I'm afraid that a dirty
bomb that wiped out LA would cause MoveOn.org to say

we got

Quoted message said:

what we deserved. Bill C

Just because fewer in numbers have been detained does not
necessarily make it right. Manson is responsible for
fewer deaths than Stalin, but that does not make him any
less evil.

"h squared" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Kunich said:

Quoted message said:

Let's try to explain this in words of one syllable so
that you can understand it.

and

Quoted message said:

What has terrorism to do with it you ask? (Not that
someone with so

little

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

intelligence as you would EVER ask.)

and

Quoted message said:

But a simple perusal of history seems to have been
beyond your powers of comprehension.

what's the point of being so mean and trying to polarize
everything? it makes my head hurt, and then i don't read
your posts for the next week or so. curt doesn't sound
like he deserves to be treated like [censored].

heather

Heather that was nice of you, but I really don't mind when
someone talks like this. They most likely see sense in what
I had to say and are just angry that I brought it up. They
are just shouting and not saying anything.

I am of course angry at what is going on. To be honest I am
sick that people are dieing for greed. I will say
this...this group overall is pretty well read on some of
this. It does make me happy. Maybe we can have a changing of
the guard in the US. Well, I like to think we have a chance
to get Bush out of there, but the NASCAR fans are many and
they love him and don't read.

Curt

Just out of curiosity how is it that you and a couple of
others insist on citing opinion and rumor as fact?

And I noted that since the Saud royal family consists of
some 5,000+ members. And I asked you if you're responsible
for what your relatives do. Your answer, as far as I can
make out, is that anything they do, the King is
responsible for. Strange that somehow Clinton was never
responsible for anything.

Perhaps if you narrow your vision even more you can then
blame your next door neighbor since he's closer to Osama Bin
Laden than you are.

"Steven L. Sheffield" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 05/01/2004 10:10 PM, in article
[email hidden], "Tom

Kunich said:

"Steven L. Sheffield" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 05/01/2004 09:25 PM, in article
[email hidden],
"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote:

> "curt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> "]news:[email hidden]...
>>
>> As far as comparing this to any other war, what are
>> you going to

compare

Quoted message said:

>> it with? WW2? LOL Please. This is not a war, it is an
>> invasion to

put

Quoted message said:

>> someone in power to deal with us on oil.
>
> We needn't go any further than this. Let's try to
> explain this in

words

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of

Quoted message said:

> one syllable so that you can understand it. This war
> IS about oil. But

not

Quoted message said:

> OUR "control" of it but the free flow of it so that it
> isn't enriching

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> dictator who will use it to fund terrorism to retain
> his own power.

If this war was about a free flow of oil that wasn't
enriching a

dictator

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

who uses to fund terrorism, then we'd be invading Saudi
Arabia instead

of

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Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Iraq.

Please feel free to cite anything that shows the
controlling members of

Saud

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

royal family involved in any terrorist activities. Soros
has more direct ties with terrorism than King Ibn al-
Azziz. And it is likely that you

are

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more closely allied with terrorism than the 5,000+
member Saudi royal family.

truthout.org080303A.shtmlOpen ↗

jinsa.orgcOpen ↗
ategoryid/884/doc

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umentid/1729/history/3,2360,884,1729

cooperativeresearch.orgwallstreetOpen ↗
journal100203.htm

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l

cnn.comterrorism.reportOpen ↗

sptimes.comThe Saudi moneyOpen ↗
_trail.shtml

newsmax.com1659Open ↗
46.shtml

newsmax.com1823Open ↗
14.shtml

newsmax.com1530Open ↗
53.shtml

Quoted message said:

But then you are completely responsible for things done
by your 3rd

cousin

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whom you've never met aren't you?

--
Steven L. Sheffield stevens at veloworks dot com veloworks
at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net bellum pax est libertas
servitus est ignoratio vis est ess ay ell tea ell ay kay
ee sea aye tee why you ti ay aitch aitch tee tea pea colon
[for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you double-yew
double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash

"Tim Lines" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:8K%kc.11632$0H1.1246525@attbi_s54...

Quoted message said:

Tom Kunich said:

Please feel free to cite anything that shows the
controlling members of

Saud

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

royal family involved in any terrorist activities.

Please feel free to cite anything that shows Saddam was
involved in 9-11.

Explain to me why you believe that terrorism shouldn't
be our target but instead only those directly involved
in 9/11/01?

What is it with you guys? Isn't there anyone at home?

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

That's obviously in a Koran I haven't read, or the
histories of the Arab Peoples that I have here in the
house. The Arabs were actually incredibly tolerant up
until the crusaders showed up.

This must be some form of tolerance with which I'm not
familiar: In fact under the Prophet, war was made against
ALL of their neighboring tribes. Islam was spread especially
during it's early stages by the sword. The fact is that when
someone is about to cut your throat and all you have to do
to save yourself is to recite, "There is no God but Allah
and Mohammad is his Prophet" you are likely to have a very
high conversion rate. They conquered by the sword Persia and
Demascus among many, many others. They captured by force and
ruled over the greater part of Spain.

They argued among themselves for the power and murdered each
other in fits of jealously. Shi'ite and Sunni split under
such a situation and they murdered each other to this very
day. The Ottoman Turks took the religion to heart since it
gave them permissoin to murder everyone in their way which
they proceeded to achieve. Ask the

(Quraysh were a group of powerful Meccans) From "The Life of
Muhammad", page 212, by A. Guillaume: " When Quraysh became
insolent towards God and rejected His gracious purpose,
accused His prophet of lying, and ill treated and exiled
those who served Him and proclaimed His unity, believed in
His prophet and held fast to His religion, He gave
permission to His apostle to fight and to protect himself
against those who wronged them and treated them
badly......[a] The meaning is "I have allowed them to fight
only because they have been unjustly treated while their
sole offense against men has been that they worship God.
When they are in the ascendant they will establish prayer,
pay the poor-tax, enjoin kindness, and forbid iniquity,
i.e., the prophet and his companions all of them." Then God
sent down to him: "Fight them so that there be no more
seduction," [b] i.e. until no believer is seduced from his
religion. "And the religion is God's,", i.e. Until God alone
is worshipped.""

(If you read that again especially note: "Until God alone
is worshipped." which was the permission given to kill ALL
non-believers. What was the difference between the extreme
persecution that Mohammed put up with while living in Mecca
and that persecution which he would NOT put up with after
he moved to Medina? That fact that he then had,
essentially, an army.)

From Guillaume, page 369: "The apostle said, "Kill any Jew
that falls into your power." Thereupon Muhayyisa b. Masud
leapt upon Ibn Sunayna, a Jewish merchant with whom they had
social and business relations, and killed him. Huwayyisa was
not a Muslim at the time though he was the elder brother.
When Muhayyisa killed him Huwayyisa began to beat him,
saying, 'You enemy of God, did you kill him when much of the
fat on your belly comes from his wealth?' Muhayyisa
answered, 'Had the one who ordered me to kill him ordered me
to kill you I would have cut your head off.'"

Sunan of Abu Dawud, Book 19, Number 2996:

"The Apostle of Allah said: If you gain a victory over the
men of Jews, kill them."

(You'll have to forgive me if I take "religion of peace"
with a grain of salt.)

Take this little incident from Mohammad's life for instance:
"The shepherd and the Muslim man both identified themselves
as members of the same Arab clan. Prior to going asleep, the
shepherd said that he would never become a Muslim. Umayya
waited for the shepherd to fall asleep, and thereafter:

"as soon as the badu was asleep and snoring I got up
and killed him in a more horrible way than any man has
been killed. I put the end of my bow in his sound eye,
then I bore down on it until I forced it out at the
back of his neck."

Umayya returned and spoke with Muhammad. He
relates......."He [Muhammad] asked my news and when I told
him what had happened he blessed me".

(Can you imagine a priest blessing a follower for this?)

Since you have a Holy Ku'ran in the house look this up:

"Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter
day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have
prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, of the people
of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing
submission and feel themselves subdued."

"The people of the Book" are Christians and Jews who hav
ethe Bible. "Jizya" was some sort of tax placed against
Christians and Jews alone.

And even this wouldn't save Christians or Jews save only a
minority of the time.

Remember that the Bukari is the second book next to the
Holy Ku'ran

"I heard Allah's messenger saying, "During the last days
there will appear some young foolish people, who will say
the best words, but their faith will not go beyond their
throats (i.e. they will leave the faith) and will go out
from their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So,
wherever you find them, kill them, for whoever kills them
shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection."

(From ABC news)

U.S. troops will leave Saudi Arabia when Islamic terrorists
"send the bodies of American troops and civilians home in
wooden boxes and coffins," Osama Bin Ladin vowed in an
exclusive interview with ABC NEWS Correspondent John Miller.
"We don't differentiate between those dressed in military
uniforms and civilians. They are all targets in this fatwa."

Need any more?

"curt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What does Iraq have to do with terrorism?

After some of your other postings I should have expected
that. In fact, Iraq funded and was funding terrorism all
over the world. Hamas was getting funding as was Abu Nidal
and many many others. Even in the throes of defeat Saddam
Hussein was paying off UN officials with as much as
$6,000,000,000 American to look the other way while he
spread terror still wider.

Quoted message said:

Do you know that Osama bin Laden hated Sadaam?

Did you know that [censored] hated both Mussolini and Japanese?

Quoted message said:

I thought we were after Osama for 9/11?

And I thought we wanted to stop terrorism. Apparently you
want to put a bandage on the knife wound while the rest of
us are interested in stopping the assault.

Quoted message said:

Do you really think we would give a [censored] about Iraq if
there was no oil there?

Why is it that you don't have any idea of what oil means?
You drive a car, fly in a plane and ride on boats. You heat
your house, demand air conditioning in your place of
business or school and want your food well cooked, fresh and
plentiful.

But apparently you are incapable of connecting your own
gluttony to oil. Nor to the power that such oil revenues
give to dictators who would abuse those riches.

No, silly child, we don't want their oil. But we do want it
to be freely available to everyone without giving excesses
of power to evil. To you Iraq wasn't evil despite the
hundreds of thousands tortured to death.

Since you don't understand it perhaps you ought to just
leave the worrying to adults and crawl back into your crib.