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More on "The War On Drivers."

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UK and Europe
Published
25 April 2006
Last activity
26 April 2006
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spindrift
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  1. CAR KILLER DAD FREE
    A FATHER who killed his baby and a woman magistrate in a head-on car
    crash walked free from court yesterday.

    Respected vet Geraint Jones, 39, was given a 15-month jail sentence,
    suspended for two years, and a two-year driving ban.

    He admitted causing the death by dangerous driving of Margaret Huxley,
    62, in Snowdonia in February last year.

    Jones' eight-month-old daughter Mari also died.

    Caernarfon crown court heard of his and wife Catherine's "harrowing
    experience" at having to turn off her life support machine in hospital.

    http://tinyurl.com/kjmsp

  2. spindrift said:

    CAR KILLER DAD FREE
    A FATHER who killed his baby and a woman magistrate in a head-on car
    crash walked free from court yesterday.

    Respected vet Geraint Jones, 39, was given a 15-month jail sentence,
    suspended for two years, and a two-year driving ban.

    He admitted causing the death by dangerous driving of Margaret Huxley,


    <snip>

    What "war on drivers"?

    This is an utter tragedy for all concerned.
    Probably an unnecessary and avoidable incident...

    ....but what has this to do with urc?

    Or is there somthing in the background to this that makes it more
    relevant here than in uk.transport or similar?

    regards,

    bookieb

  3. bookieb said:
    spindrift said:

    CAR KILLER DAD FREE
    A FATHER who killed his baby and a woman magistrate in a head-on car
    crash walked free from court yesterday.

    Respected vet Geraint Jones, 39, was given a 15-month jail sentence,
    suspended for two years, and a two-year driving ban.

    He admitted causing the death by dangerous driving of Margaret
    Huxley, <snip>

    What "war on drivers"?

    This is an utter tragedy for all concerned.
    Probably an unnecessary and avoidable incident...

    ...but what has this to do with urc?

    Or is there somthing in the background to this that makes it more
    relevant here than in uk.transport or similar?

    No!

    http://tinyurl.com/fsaef
    pk

  4. spindrift said:

    CAR KILLER DAD FREE
    A FATHER who killed his baby and a woman magistrate in a head-on car
    crash walked free from court yesterday.

    Tragic, and also apparently yet another killer receives a pathetic slap on
    the wrist, but what's the connection with cycling?

    John B

  5. This case is slightly different in that the man's driving caused the
    death of his own son , which would have been taken into account in the
    sentencing.

    But other killer drivers get away with even less sanction.

    For instance, take the case of Peter Williams, a 22-year-old cyclist
    who was killed in January 2000 after a driver hit him with her wing
    mirror. He fell under the wheels of a following vehicle. The driver
    admitted driving without due care and attention but was fined just
    £200. No penalty points were applied despite a history of offences
    which would have meant an immediate ban under `totting up`. Phillip
    Judge, Chairman of the Bench in Cheltenham, said a driving ban would
    prevent her from taking her children the 2 miles to school and
    therefore cause too much hardship.

    The idea that punishments should not cause hardship to the offender is
    a new one to me.

    Nor is this unusual. 25-year-old Carl Fox from Doncaster was killed by
    a driver travelling at 46mph in a 30mph zone. The driver was fined
    £100 and three penalty points. And Peter Longbottom, a racing cyclist
    of international repute, was held to have contributed to his demise by
    using a flashing rear light. The transport department has figures
    showing that these, while technically illegal, are three to five times
    more visible than a steady light.

    And more recently 17-year-old Jason Salter was knocked off his bike and
    killed by a woman who chose to try to overtake in the face of oncoming
    traffic, necessitating her passing far too close - a situation
    familiar to and dreaded by any regular cyclist. This triumph of
    impatience over respect for human life netted the driver a whopping
    £135 fine (less than the cost of a bicycle) and just six penalty
    points.

  6. spindrift said:

    This case is slightly different in that the man's driving caused the
    death of his own son , which would have been taken into account in the
    sentencing.

    But other killer drivers get away with even less sanction.

    <snip list of unassociated cases>

    Yes I know of those cases.
    But I asked you has the case you posted about Geraint Jones got to do with
    cycling, or was it just an excuse to start a rant against drivers?

    John B

  7. John B wrote:
    was it just an excuse to start a rant against drivers?

    Quoted message said:


    John B

    You think highlighting lenient sentences for killer drivers is
    "anti-drivers"?

    I disagree, most drivers are not killers but those that do kill often
    receive inadequate sentences, that was my point.

    I think you are a bit over-sensitive if you perceive stories about bad
    behaviour on the part of a driver as a "rant" against ALL drivers.

  8. spindrift said:

    You think highlighting lenient sentences for killer drivers is
    "anti-drivers"?

    You're the one that is saying "War On Drivers" with no qualification.

    Quoted message said:

    I disagree, most drivers are not killers but those that do kill often
    receive inadequate sentences, that was my point.

    But the question was how is that relevant to cycling?

    Quoted message said:

    I think you are a bit over-sensitive if you perceive stories about bad
    behaviour on the part of a driver as a "rant" against ALL drivers.

    You're the one that is saying "War On Drivers" with no qualification.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  9. spindrift said:

    John B wrote:
    was it just an excuse to start a rant against drivers?

    Quoted message said:


    John B

    You think highlighting lenient sentences for killer drivers is
    "anti-drivers"?

    I disagree,

    You can disagree as much as you want, because I was simply asking you a
    question, not making a statement.

    And you've still not answered the first one either.

    What has the Geraint Jones case got to do with cycling?

    John B

  10. Peter Clinch said:


    You're the one that is saying "War On Drivers" with no qualification.
    Pete.

    No I'm not.

    The pliant media uses the phrase all the time, I assumed given the
    example I used people would realise the headline was ironic in the
    sense that it suggests the opposite of what actually happened.

    http://comment.independent.co.uk/columnists_m_z/deborah_orr/article41484.ece

    http://telfordconservatives.com/Pressreleases040804.htm

    http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,542557,00.html

  11. spindrift span but drifted off topic with:
    <snipped plagarism>

    Quoted message said:

    http://tinyurl.com/kjmsp

    Here are some more links of equal relevance for you to consider posting
    to this newsgroup with tinyurls and no url text:

    http://tinyurl.com/r4gq9

    And remember, in a killfile, no-one can hear you spam.

    PLONK!

    JimP

    --
    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
    grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
    all. - DNA. Nah, just killfile the fule. - JimP

  12. "What has the Geraint Jones case got to do with cycling? "

    Road safety and killer drivers are issues that concern all road users,
    I would have imagined.

    Many apologies if you disagree.

  13. spindrift said:
    Peter Clinch said:

    You're the one that is saying "War On Drivers" with no qualification.
    Pete.

    No I'm not.

    The pliant media uses the phrase all the time, I assumed given the
    example I used people would realise the headline was ironic in the
    sense that it suggests the opposite of what actually happened.

    http://comment.independent.co.uk/columnists_m_z/deborah_orr/article41484.ece

    http://telfordconservatives.com/Pressreleases040804.htm

    http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,542557,00.html

    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  14. spindrift said:

    The pliant media uses the phrase all the time, I assumed given the
    example I used people would realise the headline was ironic

    Silly me. I also thought that the post might have something to do with
    cycling. Silly me.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  15. For instance:

    Sabrina was speeding, drunk, unlicensed, uninsured and driving with a
    previous drink driving conviction just two years earlier for which she
    was fined and disqualified from driving for one year.

    This time she had a learner driver passenger and she ran down and
    killed an innocent cyclist (James Foster) through her criminal
    negligence. In these circumstances, a car is a dangerous weapon.

    For all these simultaneous offences, she received 21 months custodial
    sentence and merely a three-year driving ban - almost spent by the time
    her sentence is over.

    She appeared to smile as the sentence was passed.

    http://www.deter.org.uk/consequence.php

  16. Jim Price said:


    And remember, in a killfile, no-one can hear you spam.

    PLONK!

    Already in mine keeping TrollB company but unfortunately dragged out by
    others who persist in attempts at troll conversion with the zeal of a
    Mormon missionary.

    --
    Tony

    "The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
    right."
    - Lord Hailsham

  17. spindrift said:

    "What has the Geraint Jones case got to do with cycling? "

    Road safety and killer drivers are issues that concern all road users,
    I would have imagined.

    Generally of course but not all *specific* cases which is what was being
    asked.

    *plonk*

  18. spindrift said:

    This case is slightly different in that the man's driving caused the
    death of his own son , which would have been taken into account in the
    sentencing.

    But other killer drivers get away with even less sanction.

    For instance, take the case of Peter Williams, a 22-year-old cyclist
    who was killed in January 2000 after a driver hit him with her wing
    mirror.

    <snip several examples that have been copied and pasted by the same
    poster into several other threads>

    You're beginning to sound like some kind of robot. Seriously,
    endlessly quoting the same incidents over and over is not helping
    anyone's cause.

    Yes, sentencing of divers who kill by bad driving is way too lenient,
    but that's a symptom of the fact that all sentencing is way too
    lenient. The problem is with the justice system in general, not any
    particular leniency aimed at motorists.

    This thread as you started it has nothing at all to do with cycling and
    has no business on URC. Adding in repeated data of other unrelated
    incidents involving cyclists doesn't make it any more relevant.

    I'm mostly on "your side" - I want to see both proper punishment for
    all offences, and lower speeds in towns, and much more cycling and less
    unnecessary motoring. But you need to re-think your tactics - as it is
    now you're starting to look like either a troll or a crank, which is
    presumably not what you intend.

  19. Pyromancer said:

    I'm mostly on "your side" - I want to see both proper punishment for
    all offences, and lower speeds in towns, and much more cycling and less
    unnecessary motoring. But you need to re-think your tactics - as it is
    now you're starting to look like either a troll or a crank, which is
    presumably not what you intend.

    He's right: you're getting widely killfiled by people who basically
    agree with your position. That fact should tell you you're Doing
    Something Very Wrong.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  20. John B said:


    spindrift said:

    CAR KILLER DAD FREE
    A FATHER who killed his baby and a woman magistrate in a head-on car
    crash walked free from court yesterday.

    Tragic, and also apparently yet another killer receives a pathetic slap on
    the wrist, but what's the connection with cycling?

    He probably had a chuckle on the way out of court thinking I've killed
    my own daughter and got away with a suspended sentence and no points.
    I've no doubt he drove off down the road on the mobile to call his mates
    for a celebratory drink while keeping below the speed limit.

    None.

    And for those that don't know me <sarcasm mode>

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