More Fascinating Abusive Email from a Typical Mountain Biker

about the same thing you hope to accomplish with all of
your drivel

"Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I wonder what he thought he would accomplish, by sending
hate mail?

Mike

X-Apparently-To: [email hidden] via
web80301.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 14

Mar

Quoted message said:

2004 13:47:15 -0800 Return-Path: <[email hidden]>
Received: from mta1-ext.prodigy.net (EHLO mta1-
int.prodigy.net)

(207.115.63.55)

Quoted message said:

by mta825.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; Sun, 14 Mar 2004
13:47:14 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [64.4.9.21] Received:
from hotmail.com (law9-f21.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.21])
by mta1-int.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id
i2ELlCKM426662 for <[email hidden]>; Sun, 14 Mar
2004 16:47:13 -0500 Received: from mail pickup service
by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 14 Mar 2004
13:47:11 -0800 Received: from 64.91.117.241 by
lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 14 Mar 2004
21:47:10 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.91.117.241] X-Originating-
Email: [[email hidden]] X-Sender:
[email hidden] From: "Matt Winchel"
<[email hidden]> To: [email hidden]
Subject: are you crazy? Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 14:47:10
-0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Message-
ID: <[email hidden]> X-
OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Mar 2004 21:47:11.0211 (UTC)
FILETIME=[E7BECBB0:01C40A0D]

You sir, and your organization are at the very least
overeducated

ignoramuses.

Quoted message said:

If you actually hiked (or God forbid biked) in the wilds
you would see the

world

Quoted message said:

you are trying to protect much different light. Nature my
dear boy is

much more

Quoted message said:

durable than you think! To even suggest that mountain
bikers are

destroying the

Quoted message said:

wilds is quite ridiculos. Maybe at best (or worst)
mountain biikes cause

less

Quoted message said:

than 1% of true destructive damage(hikers cause more by
shear numbers)

wildlife

Quoted message said:

probably causes comparable damage, and if you take
consider all the uses

of our

Quoted message said:

natural resources (recrerational, commerecial, etc.)
mountain biking even

at it

Quoted message said:

most destrucive level is hardly worth noting. Erosion is
just the movement of soil to one place to another,

whether it

Quoted message said:

is manmade or natural it is not forever, the topsoil does
not dissapear it

just

Quoted message said:

gets moved, and may very well may move back. Anyhow I
could go on and we

could

Quoted message said:

argue without end, one common ground is that we both love
the wild and

want to

Quoted message said:

see it remain heatlthy, but we all must compromise and at
time those

compromises

Quoted message said:

whether wrong or right must be accepted. I am afraid for
you that

mountain

Quoted message said:

bikes are here to stay, and to suggest that we must ban
them is silly and

will

Quoted message said:

only create more of a rift between us all. There are much
larger and more

dire

Quoted message said:

fights to fight, this is not one of them. matt
p.s. you should get out more.

Create a Job Alert on MSN Careers and enter for a chance
to win $1000!
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-
limits to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent
the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

posting this just makes you look bad Mike.

"Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I wonder what he thought he would accomplish, by sending
hate mail?

Mike

X-Apparently-To: [email hidden] via
web80301.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 14

Mar

Quoted message said:

2004 13:47:15 -0800 Return-Path: <[email hidden]>
Received: from mta1-ext.prodigy.net (EHLO mta1-
int.prodigy.net)

(207.115.63.55)

Quoted message said:

by mta825.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; Sun, 14 Mar 2004
13:47:14 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [64.4.9.21] Received:
from hotmail.com (law9-f21.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.21])
by mta1-int.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id
i2ELlCKM426662 for <[email hidden]>; Sun, 14 Mar
2004 16:47:13 -0500 Received: from mail pickup service
by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 14 Mar 2004
13:47:11 -0800 Received: from 64.91.117.241 by
lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 14 Mar 2004
21:47:10 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.91.117.241] X-Originating-
Email: [[email hidden]] X-Sender:
[email hidden] From: "Matt Winchel"
<[email hidden]> To: [email hidden]
Subject: are you crazy? Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 14:47:10
-0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Message-
ID: <[email hidden]> X-
OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Mar 2004 21:47:11.0211 (UTC)
FILETIME=[E7BECBB0:01C40A0D]

You sir, and your organization are at the very least
overeducated

ignoramuses.

Quoted message said:

If you actually hiked (or God forbid biked) in the wilds
you would see the

world

Quoted message said:

you are trying to protect much different light. Nature my
dear boy is

much more

Quoted message said:

durable than you think! To even suggest that mountain
bikers are

destroying the

Quoted message said:

wilds is quite ridiculos. Maybe at best (or worst)
mountain biikes cause

less

Quoted message said:

than 1% of true destructive damage(hikers cause more by
shear numbers)

wildlife

Quoted message said:

probably causes comparable damage, and if you take
consider all the uses

of our

Quoted message said:

natural resources (recrerational, commerecial, etc.)
mountain biking even

at it

Quoted message said:

most destrucive level is hardly worth noting. Erosion is
just the movement of soil to one place to another,

whether it

Quoted message said:

is manmade or natural it is not forever, the topsoil does
not dissapear it

just

Quoted message said:

gets moved, and may very well may move back. Anyhow I
could go on and we

could

Quoted message said:

argue without end, one common ground is that we both love
the wild and

want to

Quoted message said:

see it remain heatlthy, but we all must compromise and at
time those

compromises

Quoted message said:

whether wrong or right must be accepted. I am afraid for
you that

mountain

Quoted message said:

bikes are here to stay, and to suggest that we must ban
them is silly and

will

Quoted message said:

only create more of a rift between us all. There are much
larger and more

dire

Quoted message said:

fights to fight, this is not one of them. matt
p.s. you should get out more.

Create a Job Alert on MSN Careers and enter for a chance
to win $1000!
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-
limits to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent
the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 23:32:18 GMT, "Scott" <[email hidden]> wrote:

.posting this just makes you look bad Mike.

The best way to deal with abusive email is to post it for
the whold world to see. If they have no shame, at least it
will sucker someone like you. One is born every minute....

."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
."]news:[email hidden]... .> I
wonder what he thought he would accomplish, by sending hate
mail? .> .> Mike .> .> .> X-Apparently-To:
[email hidden] via web80301.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 14
.Mar .> 2004 13:47:15 -0800 .> Return-Path:
<[email hidden]> .> Received: from mta1-
ext.prodigy.net (EHLO mta1-int.prodigy.net) .(207.115.63.55)
.> by mta825.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; Sun, 14 Mar 2004
13:47:14 -0800 .> X-Originating-IP: [64.4.9.21] .> Received:
from hotmail.com (law9-f21.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.21]) .>
by mta1-int.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id
i2ELlCKM426662 .> for <[email hidden]>; Sun, 14 Mar
2004 16:47:13 -0500 .> Received: from mail pickup service by
hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; .> Sun, 14 Mar 2004
13:47:11 -0800 .> Received: from 64.91.117.241 by
lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; .> Sun, 14 Mar 2004
21:47:10 GMT .> X-Originating-IP: [64.91.117.241] .> X-Originating-
Email: [[email hidden]] .> X-Sender:
[email hidden] .> From: "Matt Winchel"
<[email hidden]> .> To: [email hidden] .>
Subject: are you crazy? .> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 14:47:10
-0700 .> Mime-Version: 1.0 .> Content-Type: text/html .> Message-
ID: <[email hidden]> .> X-
OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Mar 2004 21:47:11.0211 (UTC) .>
FILETIME=[E7BECBB0:01C40A0D] .> .> You sir, and your
organization are at the very least overeducated
.ignoramuses. .> If you actually hiked (or God forbid biked)
in the wilds you would see the .world .> you are trying to
protect much different light. Nature my dear boy is .much
more .> durable than you think! To even suggest that
mountain bikers are .destroying the .> wilds is quite
ridiculos. Maybe at best (or worst) mountain biikes cause
.less .> than 1% of true destructive damage(hikers cause
more by shear numbers) .wildlife .> probably causes
comparable damage, and if you take consider all the uses .of
our .> natural resources (recrerational, commerecial, etc.)
mountain biking even .at it .> most destrucive level is
hardly worth noting. .> Erosion is just the movement of soil
to one place to another, .whether it .> is manmade or
natural it is not forever, the topsoil does not dissapear it
.just .> gets moved, and may very well may move back. Anyhow
I could go on and we .could .> argue without end, one common
ground is that we both love the wild and .want to .> see it
remain heatlthy, but we all must compromise and at time
those .compromises .> whether wrong or right must be
accepted. I am afraid for you that .mountain .> bikes are
here to stay, and to suggest that we must ban them is silly
and .will .> only create more of a rift between us all.
There are much larger and more .dire .> fights to fight,
this is not one of them. .> matt .> p.s. you should get out
more. .> .> .> Create a Job Alert on MSN Careers and enter
for a chance to win $1000! .> === .> I am working on
creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to .> humans
("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 .>
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) .> .>
home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗ .

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the
previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

"Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 23:32:18 GMT, "Scott"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

.posting this just makes you look bad Mike.

The best way to deal with abusive email is to post it for
the whold world

to

Quoted message said:

see. If they have no shame, at least it will sucker
someone like you. One

is

Quoted message said:

born every minute....

Actually I am a newbie and I was on your side. I just
googled you bro and you don't make any sense and I have
fought many of the same fight you have. You a nut!

Killfile for you.

"post it for the world to see"... I seem to recall the "Mike
Vandeman FAQ" which did just that. Posted your nonsense in a
central location for the world to see. Your name-calling,
your finger-pointing and hacked up "scientific" data. The
FAQ was an actual representation of your trolling, baiting
and ng tactics. It showed your typical posts, reposts and
shallow arguments from this forum. Then you threatened to
sue the man for doing exactly what you just did. Posting for
the world to see. And all he had was actual, unaltered posts
from a public forum displayed and categorized so people
would be able to see which arguments have already been
posted and reposted. So Mr. Doublestandard rises to the
occasion again... What a surprise!

Mike Vandeman said:

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 23:32:18 GMT, "Scott"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

.posting this just makes you look bad Mike.

The best way to deal with abusive email is to post it for
the whold world to see. If they have no shame, at least it
will sucker someone like you. One is born every minute....

."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
."]news:[email hidden]... .> I
wonder what he thought he would accomplish, by sending
hate mail? .> .> Mike .> .> .> X-Apparently-To:
[email hidden] via web80301.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 14
.Mar .> 2004 13:47:15 -0800 .> Return-Path:
<[email hidden]> .> Received: from mta1-
ext.prodigy.net (EHLO mta1-int.prodigy.net)
.(207.115.63.55) .> by mta825.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with
SMTP; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 13:47:14 -0800 .> X-Originating-
IP: [64.4.9.21] .> Received: from hotmail.com (law9-
f21.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.21]) .> by mta1-
int.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id
i2ELlCKM426662 .> for <[email hidden]>; Sun, 14 Mar
2004 16:47:13 -0500 .> Received: from mail pickup service
by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; .> Sun, 14 Mar
2004 13:47:11 -0800 .> Received: from 64.91.117.241 by
lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; .> Sun, 14 Mar 2004
21:47:10 GMT .> X-Originating-IP: [64.91.117.241] .> X-Originating-
Email: [[email hidden]] .> X-Sender:
[email hidden] .> From: "Matt Winchel"
<[email hidden]> .> To: [email hidden] .>
Subject: are you crazy? .> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004
14:47:10 -0700 .> Mime-Version: 1.0 .> Content-Type:
text/html .> Message-ID:
<[email hidden]> .> X-
OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Mar 2004 21:47:11.0211 (UTC) .>
FILETIME=[E7BECBB0:01C40A0D] .> .> You sir, and your
organization are at the very least overeducated
.ignoramuses. .> If you actually hiked (or God forbid
biked) in the wilds you would see the .world .> you are
trying to protect much different light. Nature my dear
boy is .much more .> durable than you think! To even
suggest that mountain bikers are .destroying the .> wilds
is quite ridiculos. Maybe at best (or worst) mountain
biikes cause .less .> than 1% of true destructive
damage(hikers cause more by shear numbers) .wildlife .>
probably causes comparable damage, and if you take
consider all the uses .of our .> natural resources
(recrerational, commerecial, etc.) mountain biking even
.at it .> most destrucive level is hardly worth noting.
.> Erosion is just the movement of soil to one place to
another, .whether it .> is manmade or natural it is not
forever, the topsoil does not dissapear it .just .> gets
moved, and may very well may move back. Anyhow I could go
on and we .could .> argue without end, one common ground
is that we both love the wild and .want to .> see it
remain heatlthy, but we all must compromise and at time
those .compromises .> whether wrong or right must be
accepted. I am afraid for you that .mountain .> bikes are
here to stay, and to suggest that we must ban them is
silly and .will .> only create more of a rift between us
all. There are much larger and more .dire .> fights to
fight, this is not one of them. .> matt .> p.s. you
should get out more. .> .> .> Create a Job Alert on MSN
Careers and enter for a chance to win $1000! .> === .> I
am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-
limits to .> humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I
spent the previous 8 .> years fighting auto dependence
and road construction.) .> .>
home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗ .

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-
limits to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent
the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

There is nothing hateful in the message, just a dose
of reality.

You and Vendicar are obvious mental cases, doesn't you
psychiatrist tell you this?

"Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I wonder what he thought he would accomplish, by sending
hate mail?

From: "Matt Winchel" <[email hidden]> To:
[email hidden] Subject: are you crazy?

You sir, and your organization are at the very least
overeducated

ignoramuses.

Quoted message said:

If you actually hiked (or God forbid biked) in the wilds
you would see the

world

Quoted message said:

you are trying to protect much different light. Nature my
dear boy is much

more

Quoted message said:

durable than you think! To even suggest that mountain
bikers are destroying

the

Quoted message said:

wilds is quite ridiculos. Maybe at best (or worst)
mountain biikes cause

less

Quoted message said:

than 1% of true destructive damage(hikers cause more by
shear numbers)

wildlife

Quoted message said:

probably causes comparable damage, and if you take
consider all the uses of

our

Quoted message said:

natural resources (recrerational, commerecial, etc.)
mountain biking even at

it

Quoted message said:

most destrucive level is hardly worth noting. Erosion is
just the movement of soil to one place to another, whether

it

Quoted message said:

is manmade or natural it is not forever, the topsoil does
not dissapear it

just

Quoted message said:

gets moved, and may very well may move back. Anyhow I
could go on and we

could

Quoted message said:

argue without end, one common ground is that we both love
the wild and want

to

Quoted message said:

see it remain heatlthy, but we all must compromise and at
time those

compromises

Quoted message said:

whether wrong or right must be accepted. I am afraid for
you that mountain bikes are here to stay, and to suggest
that we must ban them is silly and

will

Quoted message said:

only create more of a rift between us all. There are much
larger and more

dire

Quoted message said:

fights to fight, this is not one of them. matt
p.s. you should get out more.

Dear Mr. Vandeman, Why in Hell can't you trim the excess
[censored] from your posts? First of all, your posts are inane
at best, and second, there are several inches of header data
that has nothing at all to do with anything.

Let me suggest that you post in plain text so that you see
what you hapless audience must endure.

You know, for a PhD, you are one stupid son of a [censored].
The problem I have is that my statement makes [censored]
look bad ...

"Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I wonder what he thought he would accomplish, by sending
hate mail?

Mike

X-Apparently-To: [email hidden] via
web80301.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 14

Mar

Quoted message said:

2004 13:47:15 -0800 Return-Path: <[email hidden]>
Received: from mta1-ext.prodigy.net (EHLO mta1-
int.prodigy.net)

(207.115.63.55)

Quoted message said:

by mta825.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; Sun, 14 Mar 2004
13:47:14 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [64.4.9.21] Received:
from hotmail.com (law9-f21.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.21])
by mta1-int.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id
i2ELlCKM426662 for <[email hidden]>; Sun, 14 Mar
2004 16:47:13 -0500 Received: from mail pickup service
by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 14 Mar 2004
13:47:11 -0800 Received: from 64.91.117.241 by
lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 14 Mar 2004
21:47:10 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.91.117.241] X-Originating-
Email: [[email hidden]] X-Sender:
[email hidden] From: "Matt Winchel"
<[email hidden]> To: [email hidden]
Subject: are you crazy? Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 14:47:10
-0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Message-
ID: <[email hidden]> X-
OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Mar 2004 21:47:11.0211 (UTC)
FILETIME=[E7BECBB0:01C40A0D]

You sir, and your organization are at the very least
overeducated

ignoramuses.

Quoted message said:

If you actually hiked (or God forbid biked) in the wilds
you would see the

world

Quoted message said:

you are trying to protect much different light. Nature my
dear boy is

much more

Quoted message said:

durable than you think! To even suggest that mountain
bikers are

destroying the

Quoted message said:

wilds is quite ridiculos. Maybe at best (or worst)
mountain biikes cause

less

Quoted message said:

than 1% of true destructive damage(hikers cause more by
shear numbers)

wildlife

Quoted message said:

probably causes comparable damage, and if you take
consider all the uses

of our

Quoted message said:

natural resources (recrerational, commerecial, etc.)
mountain biking even

at it

Quoted message said:

most destrucive level is hardly worth noting. Erosion is
just the movement of soil to one place to another,

whether it

Quoted message said:

is manmade or natural it is not forever, the topsoil does
not dissapear it

just

Quoted message said:

gets moved, and may very well may move back. Anyhow I
could go on and we

could

Quoted message said:

argue without end, one common ground is that we both love
the wild and

want to

Quoted message said:

see it remain heatlthy, but we all must compromise and at
time those

compromises

Quoted message said:

whether wrong or right must be accepted. I am afraid for
you that

mountain

Quoted message said:

bikes are here to stay, and to suggest that we must ban
them is silly and

will

Quoted message said:

only create more of a rift between us all. There are much
larger and more

dire

Quoted message said:

fights to fight, this is not one of them. matt
p.s. you should get out more.

Create a Job Alert on MSN Careers and enter for a chance
to win $1000!
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-
limits to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent
the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

<trimming usless header data>

Quoted message said:

You sir, and your organization are at the very least
overeducated

ignoramuses.

Well said. What is the complaint here. It is factual, and
was said with brevity.

Quoted message said:

If you actually hiked (or God forbid biked) in the wilds
you would see the

world

Quoted message said:

you are trying to protect much different light. Nature my
dear boy is

much more

Quoted message said:

durable than you think! To even suggest that mountain
bikers are

destroying the

Quoted message said:

wilds is quite ridiculos. Maybe at best (or worst)
mountain biikes cause

less

Quoted message said:

than 1% of true destructive damage(hikers cause more by
shear numbers)

wildlife

Quoted message said:

probably causes comparable damage, and if you take
consider all the uses

of our

Quoted message said:

natural resources (recrerational, commerecial, etc.)
mountain biking even

at it

Quoted message said:

most destrucive level is hardly worth noting.

If 100% of ALL ROUTES was a complete and utter environmental
wasteland, the impact to the rest of the environment would
be in the range of 0.0004% of environment of places where
there are routes. The destruction is considerably less than
1%, and quite likely less than the animals themselves would
cause in any given area.

Quoted message said:

Erosion is just the movement of soil to one place to
another,

whether it

Quoted message said:

is manmade or natural it is not forever, the topsoil does
not dissapear it

just

Quoted message said:

gets moved, and may very well may move back. Anyhow I
could go on and we

could

Quoted message said:

argue without end, one common ground is that we both love
the wild and

want to

Quoted message said:

see it remain heatlthy, but we all must compromise and at
time those

compromises

Quoted message said:

whether wrong or right must be accepted. I am afraid for
you that

mountain

Quoted message said:

bikes are here to stay, and to suggest that we must ban
them is silly and

will

Quoted message said:

only create more of a rift between us all. There are much
larger and more

dire

Quoted message said:

fights to fight, this is not one of them. matt
p.s. you should get out more.

Aint that the truth!

I don't detect any abuse here at all. I also see no
particular evidence that the author is a mountain biker. I
happen to agree with his main point, and I am not a mountain
biker. This topic could have been posted by my brother, and
I know for a fact that he has no bikes.

If you can't stand the heat, perhaps the kitchen is not the
place for you to be standing.

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:01:27 -0800, "Eric Gisin" <[email hidden]> wrote:

.There is nothing hateful in the message, just a dose
of reality.

Oh, yeah?: "You sir, and your organization are at the very
least overeducated ignoramuses."

.You and Vendicar are obvious mental cases, doesn't you
psychiatrist tell you .this? . ."Mike Vandeman"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
."]news:[email hidden]... .> I
wonder what he thought he would accomplish, by sending hate
mail? .> .> From: "Matt Winchel" <[email hidden]>
.> To: [email hidden] .> Subject: are you crazy? .> .>
You sir, and your organization are at the very least
overeducated .ignoramuses. .> If you actually hiked (or God
forbid biked) in the wilds you would see the .world .> you
are trying to protect much different light. Nature my dear
boy is much .more .> durable than you think! To even
suggest that mountain bikers are destroying .the .> wilds
is quite ridiculos. Maybe at best (or worst) mountain
biikes cause .less .> than 1% of true destructive
damage(hikers cause more by shear numbers) .wildlife .>
probably causes comparable damage, and if you take consider
all the uses of .our .> natural resources (recrerational,
commerecial, etc.) mountain biking even at .it .> most
destrucive level is hardly worth noting. .> Erosion is just
the movement of soil to one place to another, whether .it
.> is manmade or natural it is not forever, the topsoil
does not dissapear it .just .> gets moved, and may very
well may move back. Anyhow I could go on and we .could .>
argue without end, one common ground is that we both love
the wild and want .to .> see it remain heatlthy, but we all
must compromise and at time those .compromises .> whether
wrong or right must be accepted. I am afraid for you that
mountain .> bikes are here to stay, and to suggest that we
must ban them is silly and .will .> only create more of a
rift between us all. There are much larger and more .dire
.> fights to fight, this is not one of them. .> matt .>
p.s. you should get out more. .>

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the
previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 02:54:31 GMT, "Scott" <[email hidden]> wrote:

."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
."]news:[email hidden]... .> On
Mon, 15 Mar 2004 23:32:18 GMT, "Scott" <[email hidden]>
wrote: .> .> .posting this just makes you look bad Mike. .>
.> The best way to deal with abusive email is to post it for
the whold world .to .> see. If they have no shame, at least
it will sucker someone like you. One .is .> born every
minute.... . .Actually I am a newbie and I was on your side.
I just googled you bro and .you don't make any sense and I
have fought many of the same fight you have.

Really? Google doesn't show that. It shows that you are a
typical mountain biker.

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the
previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:44:23 -0500, Steve Curtiss <[email hidden]>
wrote:

."post it for the world to see"... I seem to recall the
"Mike Vandeman FAQ" which .did just that. Posted your
nonsense in a central location for the world to see. .Your
name-calling, your finger-pointing and hacked up
"scientific" data. The FAQ .was an actual representation of
your trolling, baiting and ng tactics. It showed .your
typical posts, reposts and shallow arguments from this
forum. .Then you threatened to sue the man for doing exactly
what you just did. Posting .for the world to see. And all he
had was actual, unaltered posts from a public .forum
displayed and categorized so people would be able to see
which arguments .have already been posted and reposted.

Quite different. I just posted verbatim. He posted lies.

.So Mr. Doublestandard rises to the occasion again... What a
surprise! . . .Mike Vandeman wrote: . .> On Mon, 15 Mar 2004
23:32:18 GMT, "Scott" <[email hidden]> wrote: .> .>
.posting this just makes you look bad Mike. .> .> The best
way to deal with abusive email is to post it for the whold
world to .> see. If they have no shame, at least it will
sucker someone like you. One is .> born every minute.... .>
.> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
.> ."]news:[email hidden]... .> .>
I wonder what he thought he would accomplish, by sending
hate mail? .> .> .> .> Mike .> .> .> .> .> .> X-Apparently-
To: [email hidden] via web80301.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 14
.> .Mar .> .> 2004 13:47:15 -0800 .> .> Return-Path:
<[email hidden]> .> .> Received: from mta1-
ext.prodigy.net (EHLO mta1-int.prodigy.net) .>
.(207.115.63.55) .> .> by mta825.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with
SMTP; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 13:47:14 -0800 .> .> X-Originating-
IP: [64.4.9.21] .> .> Received: from hotmail.com (law9-
f21.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.21]) .> .> by mta1-
int.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id
i2ELlCKM426662 .> .> for <[email hidden]>; Sun, 14 Mar
2004 16:47:13 -0500 .> .> Received: from mail pickup service
by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; .> .> Sun, 14 Mar
2004 13:47:11 -0800 .> .> Received: from 64.91.117.241 by
lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; .> .> Sun, 14 Mar 2004
21:47:10 GMT .> .> X-Originating-IP: [64.91.117.241] .> .>
X-Originating-Email: [[email hidden]] .> .> X-
Sender: [email hidden] .> .> From: "Matt Winchel"
<[email hidden]> .> .> To: [email hidden] .> .>
Subject: are you crazy? .> .> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004
14:47:10 -0700 .> .> Mime-Version: 1.0 .> .> Content-Type:
text/html .> .> Message-ID:
<[email hidden]> .> .> X-
OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Mar 2004 21:47:11.0211 (UTC) .> .>
FILETIME=[E7BECBB0:01C40A0D] .> .> .> .> You sir, and your
organization are at the very least overeducated .>
.ignoramuses. .> .> If you actually hiked (or God forbid
biked) in the wilds you would see the .> .world .> .> you
are trying to protect much different light. Nature my dear
boy is .> .much more .> .> durable than you think! To even
suggest that mountain bikers are .> .destroying the .> .>
wilds is quite ridiculos. Maybe at best (or worst) mountain
biikes cause .> .less .> .> than 1% of true destructive
damage(hikers cause more by shear numbers) .> .wildlife .>
.> probably causes comparable damage, and if you take
consider all the uses .> .of our .> .> natural resources
(recrerational, commerecial, etc.) mountain biking even .>
.at it .> .> most destrucive level is hardly worth noting.
.> .> Erosion is just the movement of soil to one place to
another, .> .whether it .> .> is manmade or natural it is
not forever, the topsoil does not dissapear it .> .just .>
.> gets moved, and may very well may move back. Anyhow I
could go on and we .> .could .> .> argue without end, one
common ground is that we both love the wild and .> .want to
.> .> see it remain heatlthy, but we all must compromise and
at time those .> .compromises .> .> whether wrong or right
must be accepted. I am afraid for you that .> .mountain .>
.> bikes are here to stay, and to suggest that we must ban
them is silly and .> .will .> .> only create more of a rift
between us all. There are much larger and more .> .dire .>
.> fights to fight, this is not one of them. .> .> matt .>
.> p.s. you should get out more. .> .> .> .> .> .> Create a
Job Alert on MSN Careers and enter for a chance to win
$1000! .> .> === .> .> I am working on creating wildlife
habitat that is off-limits to .> .> humans ("pure habitat"😉.
Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 .> .> years fighting
auto dependence and road construction.) .> .> .> .>
home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗ .> . .> .> === .> I am
working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
.> humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the
previous 8 .> years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.) .> .> home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the
previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:46:17 -0800, "Jeff Strickland" <[email hidden]>
wrote:

.Dear Mr. Vandeman, .Why in Hell can't you trim the excess
[censored] from your posts? First of .all, your posts are
inane at best, and second, there are several inches of
.header data that has nothing at all to do with anything.

So, naturally, being the hypocrite that you are, you
REPOSTED all the same stuff you just complained about ME
posting! 🙂 Idiot.

.Let me suggest that you post in plain text so that you see
what you hapless .audience must endure. . .You know, for a
PhD, you are one stupid son of a [censored]. The problem I have
.is that my statement makes [censored] look bad ... . . .
."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
."]news:[email hidden]... .> I
wonder what he thought he would accomplish, by sending hate
mail? .> .> Mike .> .> .> X-Apparently-To:
[email hidden] via web80301.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 14
.Mar .> 2004 13:47:15 -0800 .> Return-Path:
<[email hidden]> .> Received: from mta1-
ext.prodigy.net (EHLO mta1-int.prodigy.net) .(207.115.63.55)
.> by mta825.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; Sun, 14 Mar 2004
13:47:14 -0800 .> X-Originating-IP: [64.4.9.21] .> Received:
from hotmail.com (law9-f21.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.21]) .>
by mta1-int.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id
i2ELlCKM426662 .> for <[email hidden]>; Sun, 14 Mar
2004 16:47:13 -0500 .> Received: from mail pickup service by
hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; .> Sun, 14 Mar 2004
13:47:11 -0800 .> Received: from 64.91.117.241 by
lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; .> Sun, 14 Mar 2004
21:47:10 GMT .> X-Originating-IP: [64.91.117.241] .> X-Originating-
Email: [[email hidden]] .> X-Sender:
[email hidden] .> From: "Matt Winchel"
<[email hidden]> .> To: [email hidden] .>
Subject: are you crazy? .> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 14:47:10
-0700 .> Mime-Version: 1.0 .> Content-Type: text/html .> Message-
ID: <[email hidden]> .> X-
OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Mar 2004 21:47:11.0211 (UTC) .>
FILETIME=[E7BECBB0:01C40A0D] .> .> You sir, and your
organization are at the very least overeducated
.ignoramuses. .> If you actually hiked (or God forbid biked)
in the wilds you would see the .world .> you are trying to
protect much different light. Nature my dear boy is .much
more .> durable than you think! To even suggest that
mountain bikers are .destroying the .> wilds is quite
ridiculos. Maybe at best (or worst) mountain biikes cause
.less .> than 1% of true destructive damage(hikers cause
more by shear numbers) .wildlife .> probably causes
comparable damage, and if you take consider all the uses .of
our .> natural resources (recrerational, commerecial, etc.)
mountain biking even .at it .> most destrucive level is
hardly worth noting. .> Erosion is just the movement of soil
to one place to another, .whether it .> is manmade or
natural it is not forever, the topsoil does not dissapear it
.just .> gets moved, and may very well may move back. Anyhow
I could go on and we .could .> argue without end, one common
ground is that we both love the wild and .want to .> see it
remain heatlthy, but we all must compromise and at time
those .compromises .> whether wrong or right must be
accepted. I am afraid for you that .mountain .> bikes are
here to stay, and to suggest that we must ban them is silly
and .will .> only create more of a rift between us all.
There are much larger and more .dire .> fights to fight,
this is not one of them. .> matt .> p.s. you should get out
more. .> .> .> Create a Job Alert on MSN Careers and enter
for a chance to win $1000! .> === .> I am working on
creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to .> humans
("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 .>
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) .> .>
home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗ .

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the
previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

MV:"Quite different. I just posted verbatim. He posted lies."

RE: The now gone MV FAQ

He posted lies? They were copies of your posts! How can
showing ng threads of your arguments and "facts" be lies...
unless, of course, they were lies to begin with?

"Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:44:23 -0500, Steve Curtiss
<[email hidden]> wrote:

."post it for the world to see"... I seem to recall the
"Mike Vandeman

FAQ" which

Quoted message said:

.did just that. Posted your nonsense in a central location
for the world

to see.

Quoted message said:

.Your name-calling, your finger-pointing and hacked up
"scientific" data.

The FAQ

Quoted message said:

.was an actual representation of your trolling, baiting
and ng tactics. It

showed

Quoted message said:

.your typical posts, reposts and shallow arguments from
this forum. .Then you threatened to sue the man for doing
exactly what you just did.

Posting

Quoted message said:

.for the world to see. And all he had was actual,
unaltered posts from a

public

Quoted message said:

.forum displayed and categorized so people would be able
to see which

arguments

Quoted message said:

.have already been posted and reposted.

Quite different. I just posted verbatim. He posted lies.

.So Mr. Doublestandard rises to the occasion again... What
a surprise! . . .Mike Vandeman wrote: . .> On Mon, 15 Mar
2004 23:32:18 GMT, "Scott" <[email hidden]> wrote: .> .>
.posting this just makes you look bad Mike. .> .> The best
way to deal with abusive email is to post it for the whold

world to

Quoted message said:

.> see. If they have no shame, at least it will sucker
someone like you.

One is

Quoted message said:

.> born every minute.... .> .> ."Mike Vandeman"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message .>
."]news:[email hidden]... .> .>
I wonder what he thought he would accomplish, by sending
hate mail? .> .>

(clipped)

Quoted message said:

.> .> .posting this just makes you look bad Mike. .> .>
The best way to deal with abusive email is to post it for
the whold

world

Quoted message said:

.to .> see. If they have no shame, at least it will sucker
someone like you.

One

Quoted message said:

.is .> born every minute.... . .Actually I am a newbie and
I was on your side. I just googled you bro

and

Quoted message said:

.you don't make any sense and I have fought many of the
same fight you

have.

Quoted message said:

Really? Google doesn't show that. It shows that you are a
typical mountain biker.

So, disagreeing with you automatically makes someone a Mt
Biker? What kind of logic is that? This thing is cross-
posted over several different groups. Does agreeing with you
automatically make someone an idiot? MV is a hiker. All
hikers are not MV. Thank God!

On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:07:42 -0500, "S Curtiss" <[email hidden]> wrote:

.MV:"Quite different. I just posted verbatim. He posted
lies." . .RE: The now gone MV FAQ . .He posted lies? They
were copies of your posts!

As well as "editorial comments".

.How can showing ng threads of your arguments and "facts" be
lies... unless, .of course, they were lies to begin with? .
. . ."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
."]news:[email hidden]... .> On
Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:44:23 -0500, Steve Curtiss
<[email hidden]> .> wrote: .> .> ."post it for the
world to see"... I seem to recall the "Mike Vandeman .FAQ"
which .> .did just that. Posted your nonsense in a central
location for the world .to see. .> .Your name-calling, your
finger-pointing and hacked up "scientific" data. .The FAQ .>
.was an actual representation of your trolling, baiting and
ng tactics. It .showed .> .your typical posts, reposts and
shallow arguments from this forum. .> .Then you threatened
to sue the man for doing exactly what you just did. .Posting
.> .for the world to see. And all he had was actual,
unaltered posts from a .public .> .forum displayed and
categorized so people would be able to see which .arguments
.> .have already been posted and reposted. .> .> Quite
different. I just posted verbatim. He posted lies. .> .> .So
Mr. Doublestandard rises to the occasion again... What a
surprise! .> . .> . .> .Mike Vandeman wrote: .> . .> .> On
Mon, 15 Mar 2004 23:32:18 GMT, "Scott" <[email hidden]>
wrote: .> .> .> .> .posting this just makes you look bad
Mike. .> .> .> .> The best way to deal with abusive email is
to post it for the whold .world to .> .> see. If they have
no shame, at least it will sucker someone like you. .One is
.> .> born every minute.... .> .> .> .> ."Mike Vandeman"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message .> .>
."]news:[email hidden]... .> .> .>
I wonder what he thought he would accomplish, by sending
hate mail? .> .> .> .(clipped) .

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the
previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:30:16 -0500, "S Curtiss" <[email hidden]> wrote:

. .<[email hidden]> wrote: .> .> .> .> .posting this just
makes you look bad Mike. .> .> .> .> The best way to deal
with abusive email is to post it for the whold .world .> .to
.> .> see. If they have no shame, at least it will sucker
someone like you. .One .> .is .> .> born every minute.... .>
. .> .Actually I am a newbie and I was on your side. I just
googled you bro .and .> .you don't make any sense and I have
fought many of the same fight you .have. .> .> Really?
Google doesn't show that. It shows that you are a typical
mountain .> biker. .> .So, disagreeing with you
automatically makes someone a Mt Biker? What kind .of logic
is that? This thing is cross-posted over several different
groups. .Does agreeing with you automatically make someone
an idiot? .MV is a hiker. All hikers are not MV. Thank God!

Do you own a mountain bike?
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the
previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

Like your "editorial comments" that all mt bikers are liars.
That only hikers enjoy the outdoors. That anyone who
disagrees with your philosophy (make no mistake, it is a
philosophy) is either stupid or ignorant. Your posts are
nothing but "editorial comments". How is your posting of an
opinion in a free speech environment any better than anyone
else? You have always had a double standard. Your posts are
gospel, while disagreeing posts are sacrilege. You are
myopic to any other view and the nly person who is being
fooled is you.

Mike Vandeman said:

On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:07:42 -0500, "S Curtiss"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

.MV:"Quite different. I just posted verbatim. He posted
lies." . .RE: The now gone MV FAQ . .He posted lies? They
were copies of your posts!

As well as "editorial comments".

.How can showing ng threads of your arguments and "facts"
be lies... unless, .of course, they were lies to begin
with? . . . ."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote
in message
."]news:[email hidden]... .> On
Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:44:23 -0500, Steve Curtiss
<[email hidden]> .> wrote: .> .> ."post it for the
world to see"... I seem to recall the "Mike Vandeman .FAQ"
which .> .did just that. Posted your nonsense in a central
location for the world .to see. .> .Your name-calling,
your finger-pointing and hacked up "scientific" data. .The
FAQ .> .was an actual representation of your trolling,
baiting and ng tactics. It .showed .> .your typical posts,
reposts and shallow arguments from this forum. .> .Then
you threatened to sue the man for doing exactly what you
just did. .Posting .> .for the world to see. And all he
had was actual, unaltered posts from a .public .> .forum
displayed and categorized so people would be able to see
which .arguments .> .have already been posted and
reposted. .> .> Quite different. I just posted verbatim.
He posted lies. .> .> .So Mr. Doublestandard rises to the
occasion again... What a surprise! .> . .> . .> .Mike
Vandeman wrote: .> . .> .> On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 23:32:18
GMT, "Scott" <[email hidden]> wrote: .> .> .> .> .posting
this just makes you look bad Mike. .> .> .> .> The best
way to deal with abusive email is to post it for the whold
.world to .> .> see. If they have no shame, at least it
will sucker someone like you. .One is .> .> born every
minute.... .> .> .> .> ."Mike Vandeman"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message .> .>
."]news:[email hidden]... .> .>
.> I wonder what he thought he would accomplish, by
sending hate mail? .> .> .> .(clipped) .

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-
limits to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent
the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

"Jeff Strickland" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

wrote:

.Dear Mr. Vandeman, .Why in Hell can't you trim the excess
[censored] from your posts? First of .all, your posts are
inane at best, and second, there are several inches

of

Quoted message said:

.header data that has nothing at all to do with anything.

So, naturally, being the hypocrite that you are, you
REPOSTED all the same

stuff

Quoted message said:

you just complained about ME posting! 🙂 Idiot.

Wow.. hateful and abusive. That double standard again...

Eric Gisin said:

.There is nothing hateful in the message, just a dose of
reality.

Oh, yeah?: "You sir, and your organization are at the
very least

overeducated

Quoted message said:

ignoramuses."

(clipped)

Sounds like the same kind of language you (MV) use to
describe anyone who disagrees with you. That double standard
hangs around your neck like a disemboweled whipsnake...
Examples of terms used to describe Mt Bikers by MV🙁idiot,
liar, illiterate, criminal, duh, stupid, crazy) But it's not
hate-speach when MV does it, is it?