More evidence against Ullrich

On Jul 8, 8:33 pm, Jason Spaceman <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

From the article:
----------------------------------------------------------
Hamburg - Jan Ullrich and his manager Rudy Pevenage were in Madrid on three
different occasions to see Eufemiano Fuentes, the doctor who was at the
centre of a Spanish doping investigation, according to Germany's Focus
magazine.

Focus reported that German prosecutors believe files found during a search
of Pevenage's house in Belgium last year and entries in Fuentes' diary show
that the pair were in Madrid at a time Ullrich claimed to be in his Swiss
home.

Seized papers also indicated that Ullrich paid at least 25 000 euros (about
R266 000) to Fuentes.
--------------------------------------------------------------

Read it athttp://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=6&click_id=185&art_id=nw2007070...

J. Spaceman

I have to wonder if he testified to something else under legal
binding. They could hang him quicker for that than anything else
though it's looking like a real mess.
I really think that Jan is one of those people who allowed themselves
to be led, as part of a system/team, and probably didn't even question
it much when they assured him it was legal, and/or they'd get away
with it like everyone else.
If they hang Jan I hope to hell they get everyone else around him
too.
Yeah, I still have empathy for some of the dopers.
Bill C

Bill C said:

I have to wonder if he testified to something else under legal
binding. They could hang him quicker for that than anything else
though it's looking like a real mess.
I really think that Jan is one of those people who allowed themselves
to be led, as part of a system/team, and probably didn't even question
it much when they assured him it was legal, and/or they'd get away
with it like everyone else.
If they hang Jan I hope to hell they get everyone else around him
too.
Yeah, I still have empathy for some of the dopers.
Bill C

Let's see now

Born 1973 in Rostock,

Rostock in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, DDR?

Jan knew all about the Pharmaceutical Tango by the time he could say
Aspirin

--
Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply
-
"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate,
tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds
of men." --Samuel Adams

On Jul 9, 2:26 am, Davey Crockett <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Bill C said:

I have to wonder if he testified to something else under legal
binding. They could hang him quicker for that than anything else
though it's looking like a real mess.
I really think that Jan is one of those people who allowed themselves
to be led, as part of a system/team, and probably didn't even question
it much when they assured him it was legal, and/or they'd get away
with it like everyone else.
If they hang Jan I hope to hell they get everyone else around him
too.
Yeah, I still have empathy for some of the dopers.
Bill C

Let's see now

Born 1973 in Rostock,

Rostock in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, DDR?

Jan knew all about the Pharmaceutical Tango by the time he could say
Aspirin

--
Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply
-
"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate,
tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds
of men." --Samuel Adams

Yeah, that's part of my point. Like most of the others, he was given a
diet and asking questions about it wasn't a smart idea. You go with
the program, or else. At least they didn't feed him [censored] that
effectively changed his gender, unlike some of the former females who
now make Tammy look feminine.
Bill C

Bill C said:

If they hang Jan I hope to hell they get everyone else around him
too.

dumbass,

i'm not sure what you mean by "hang" jan. if you didn't know, he is
retired.

i guess he could go to jail on the criminal charge (unlikely), but it
never seemed like he was headed for a post-racing career in the sport,
so he is free to pursue whatever he was planning to do anyways.

Quoted message said:

Yeah, I still have empathy for some of the dopers.

no, like a lot of people you have a soft-spot for athletes and you are
willing to let them get away with misconduct because you admire their
athleticism.

that is why guys like vdb get a million second chances (until they're
really messed up), when he should've just retired when they found all
the dope in his fridge.

On Jul 9, 1:05 pm, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Bill C said:

If they hang Jan I hope to hell they get everyone else around him
too.

dumbass,

i'm not sure what you mean by "hang" jan. if you didn't know, he is
retired.

i guess he could go to jail on the criminal charge (unlikely), but it
never seemed like he was headed for a post-racing career in the sport,
so he is free to pursue whatever he was planning to do anyways.

I think they very well may push politically motivated criminal
charges, along with civil suits to get money back.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yeah, I still have empathy for some of the dopers.

no, like a lot of people you have a soft-spot for athletes and you are
willing to let them get away with misconduct because you admire their
athleticism.

No. I have zero sympathy for those whodecide to use doping as just
another tool to win. The ones who are driving the doping are those who
will do anything to win. The example here is the handfull of people
who believe that anything but winning is just the first loser.
I'm sure there are plenty of athletes who don't want to takwe the
[censored], but don't see any way to keep their jobs if they don't.
I'm sure lots of the teams have pushed hard to have their athletes
"Do whatever it takes, and take advantage of all training methods for
the best results" or be gone.
Those athletes I have sympathy for.
Bill C

Quoted message said:

that is why guys like vdb get a million second chances (until they're
really messed up), when he should've just retired when they found all
the dope in his fridge.

You think all VDB's problems are cycling related? If he quits cycling
he'll no longer have mental health issues?
Damn it'd be great if it was that easy to help people with mental
illness.
Bill C

in message <[email hidden]>,

(') said:

i guess he could go to jail on the criminal charge (unlikely), but it
never seemed like he was headed for a post-racing career in the sport,
so he is free to pursue whatever he was planning to do anyways.

He was planning to launch a premium bike brand. That career option has
been... errm... severely discounted.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; my other religion is Emacs

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>,

(') said:

i guess he could go to jail on the criminal charge (unlikely), but it
never seemed like he was headed for a post-racing career in the sport,
so he is free to pursue whatever he was planning to do anyways.

He was planning to launch a premium bike brand. That career option has
been... errm... severely discounted.

I am always looking for a discount. Where do I get an Ullrich?

Um, are Lemonds discounted these days?

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Quoted post said:

Bill C said:

If they hang Jan I hope to hell they get everyone else around him
too.

dumbass,

i'm not sure what you mean by "hang" jan. if you didn't know, he is
retired.

i guess he could go to jail on the criminal charge (unlikely), but it
never seemed like he was headed for a post-racing career in the sport,
so he is free to pursue whatever he was planning to do anyways.

And it does not require agility to track down a
bratwurst and beer.

--
Michael Press

Bill C said:

On Jul 9, 1:05 pm, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Bill C said:

If they hang Jan I hope to hell they get everyone else around him
too.

dumbass,

i'm not sure what you mean by "hang" jan. if you didn't know, he is
retired.

i guess he could go to jail on the criminal charge (unlikely), but it
never seemed like he was headed for a post-racing career in the sport,
so he is free to pursue whatever he was planning to do anyways.

I think they very well may push politically motivated criminal
charges, along with civil suits to get money back.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yeah, I still have empathy for some of the dopers.

no, like a lot of people you have a soft-spot for athletes and you are
willing to let them get away with misconduct because you admire their
athleticism.

No. I have zero sympathy for those whodecide to use doping as just
another tool to win. The ones who are driving the doping are those who
will do anything to win. The example here is the handfull of people
who believe that anything but winning is just the first loser.
I'm sure there are plenty of athletes who don't want to takwe the
[censored], but don't see any way to keep their jobs if they don't.
I'm sure lots of the teams have pushed hard to have their athletes
"Do whatever it takes, and take advantage of all training methods for
the best results" or be gone.
Those athletes I have sympathy for.
Bill C

Quoted message said:

that is why guys like vdb get a million second chances (until they're
really messed up), when he should've just retired when they found all
the dope in his fridge.

You think all VDB's problems are cycling related? If he quits cycling
he'll no longer have mental health issues?
Damn it'd be great if it was that easy to help people with mental
illness.

I dunno. Look around here. I'm sure half this lot'd be ahelluvalot saner if they
gave up bike racing.

Ron

in message <[email hidden]>, RonSonic

(') said:

Quoted message said:

You think all VDB's problems are cycling related? If he quits cycling
he'll no longer have mental health issues?
Damn it'd be great if it was that easy to help people with mental
illness.

I dunno. Look around here. I'm sure half this lot'd be ahelluvalot saner
if they gave up bike racing.

Guilty, M'lud.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

'Victories are not solutions.'
;; John Hume, Northern Irish politician, on Radio Scotland 1/2/95
;; Nobel Peace Prize laureate 1998; few have deserved it so much

RonSonic said:

I dunno. Look around here. I'm sure half this lot'd be ahelluvalot saner if they
gave up bike racing.

Not to mention even fatter.