Mobile 'phones crackdown

MartinM said:

Just a thought: if there are now rewards for shopping DSS frauds, why
not have the same for drivers on 'phones? can't be that hard,
freephone, reg number and time, they can get the rest of the
information from the cellphone company. The number of oblivous drivers
still with the bloody things welded to their ears beggars belief.

Yes, I was wondering that too, as stupid-[censored]-in-4x4 nearly took the
front of my car off while turning into the side junction, cutting well
over the centre line of where I was waiting to pull out of, cranking the
wheel over with one hand (jerkily and somewhat ineffectually), whilst
yapping on her mobile which was clamped between ear and shoulder of that
same arm.

I find a good long blast on the horn (possibly an air zound might be a
good bike substitute) when in very close proximity to said [censored]-on-phone
can get the point across. Most effective if they have a window open so
not quite as good in winter, but still attracts their attention, and
makes continuing a conversation with a blaring horn counterpoint an
exercise in true stubborn determination.

--

Velvet

"MartinM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just a thought: if there are now rewards for shopping DSS frauds, why
not have the same for drivers on 'phones? can't be that hard,
freephone, reg number and time, they can get the rest of the
information from the cellphone company. The number of oblivous drivers
still with the bloody things welded to their ears beggars belief.

the cellphone records prove they were on the phone at the said time, but how
do you prove they were actually driving at that same point in time?

Agreed it is annoying to see, but I suspect the police have limited time and
have to prioritise. It is especially annoying to see so called professional
drivers doing this as it would seem sensible in their case to get hand-free
kits - lorry drivers for instance.

MartinM said:

Just a thought: if there are now rewards for shopping DSS frauds, why
not have the same for drivers on 'phones? can't be that hard,
freephone, reg number and time, they can get the rest of the
information from the cellphone company. The number of oblivous drivers
still with the bloody things welded to their ears beggars belief.

Great idea, I can't believe how many people do this and likely couldn't care less about the consequences.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Just a thought: if there are now rewards for shopping DSS frauds, why
not have the same for drivers on 'phones? can't be that hard,
freephone, reg number and time, they can get the rest of the
information from the cellphone company. The number of oblivous drivers
still with the bloody things welded to their ears beggars belief.

the cellphone records prove they were on the phone at the said time, but how
do you prove they were actually driving at that same point in time?

Quote from Velvet: "freephone, reg number and time."
That is, time provided by the responsible and sensible citizen indicates
that the _driver_ was seen using his/her phone while *driving*.

Quoted message said:

Agreed it is annoying to see, but I suspect the police have limited time and
have to prioritise. It is especially annoying to see so called professional
drivers doing this as it would seem sensible in their case to get hand-free
kits - lorry drivers for instance.

"Ziggi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Just a thought: if there are now rewards for shopping DSS frauds, why
not have the same for drivers on 'phones? can't be that hard,
freephone, reg number and time, they can get the rest of the
information from the cellphone company. The number of oblivous drivers
still with the bloody things welded to their ears beggars belief.

the cellphone records prove they were on the phone at the said time, but
how do you prove they were actually driving at that same point in time?

Quote from Velvet: "freephone, reg number and time."
That is, time provided by the responsible and sensible citizen indicates
that the _driver_ was seen using his/her phone while *driving*.

Quoted message said:

But that is not *proof* that they were driving - he could be making it up -
the phone records *prove* the phone was being used at the given time (but
not who was using it).

The DSS doesn't receive the phone call and then charge the person - they
have to investigate the claim and *prove* it to be true. The same would have
to happen with this - someone would have to prove the phone was in use by
the stated person and they were driving at the same time, otherwise its
would end up with one persons claim against anothers.

"Ziggi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Just a thought: if there are now rewards for shopping DSS frauds, why
not have the same for drivers on 'phones? can't be that hard,
freephone, reg number and time, they can get the rest of the
information from the cellphone company. The number of oblivous drivers
still with the bloody things welded to their ears beggars belief.

the cellphone records prove they were on the phone at the said time, but
how do you prove they were actually driving at that same point in time?

Quote from Velvet: "freephone, reg number and time."
That is, time provided by the responsible and sensible citizen indicates
that the _driver_ was seen using his/her phone while *driving*.

As an example of how important *facts* are, the quote is from MartinM, not
Velvet.

erics said:

<snip> It is especially annoying to see so called professional
drivers doing this as it would seem sensible in their case to get

hand-free

Quoted message said:

kits - lorry drivers for instance.

Given the law and published research on the danger any sensible
employer will have banned the use of any sort of mobile phone when
under way so provision of (or tolerance of user fitted) kits would not
be a good plan. "How's My Driving" lines (where available) might be a
good avenue. I assume the reason that coaches never have these is
because they don't need to ask...

Even though the change in penalties was always planned and was only
phased because of technical legislative and timing issues I think the
sort of coverage that it has receoved is quite useful as an underlining
of the intent of the new law.

best wishes
james

erics said:

"MartinM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just a thought: if there are now rewards for shopping DSS frauds,

why

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not have the same for drivers on 'phones? can't be that hard,
freephone, reg number and time, they can get the rest of the
information from the cellphone company. The number of oblivous

drivers

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

still with the bloody things welded to their ears beggars belief.

the cellphone records prove they were on the phone at the said time,

but how

Quoted message said:

do you prove they were actually driving at that same point in time?

I was just having this conversation with a colleague; possibly by
reference to the cellphone mast; I beleive they can pinpoint your
whereabouts (so presumably if you are moving as well) using this method
but probably only viable for serious crimes in terms of police time.

but how do police currently do it? presumably pull the driver over.

MartinM said:

erics said:

"MartinM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just a thought: if there are now rewards for shopping DSS frauds,

why

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not have the same for drivers on 'phones? can't be that hard,
freephone, reg number and time, they can get the rest of the
information from the cellphone company. The number of oblivous

drivers

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

still with the bloody things welded to their ears beggars belief.

the cellphone records prove they were on the phone at the said time,

but how

Quoted message said:

do you prove they were actually driving at that same point in time?

I was just having this conversation with a colleague; possibly by
reference to the cellphone mast; I beleive they can pinpoint your
whereabouts (so presumably if you are moving as well) using this method
but probably only viable for serious crimes in terms of police time.

i expect that this is easy, what isn't easy is finding the phone
number in the first place ?

pay-as-you go numbers don't have to be registered to real people.

Steve

"MartinM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

but how do police currently do it? presumably pull the driver over.

They don't!

If you phoned up the police and said that car reg "so and so" was doing
40mph in a 30mph zone and then gave details of the time, location, etc, do
you think the police would go round and issue a ticket on your (or anyone
elses) so so? I am not sure, even if the resources were available, they
would.

The police are empowered to enforce the law based on evidence, if *they*
witness the crime this carries a lot more weight in a court of law than a
stranger, even one of good background and standing in the community. If
several phone calls are reporting the same person at the same time the
weight of evidence may stack up. I just don't see a single phone call
leading to any conviction.

Sorry about the quote mistake. And for the question how to prove that
the driver was seen using his/her phone while driving, well you can't
really. Or may be there are ways to do it. Gotta think about it.

erics said:

"Ziggi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>Just a thought: if there are now rewards for shopping DSS frauds, why
>not have the same for drivers on 'phones? can't be that hard,
>freephone, reg number and time, they can get the rest of the
>information from the cellphone company. The number of oblivous drivers
>still with the bloody things welded to their ears beggars belief.
>

the cellphone records prove they were on the phone at the said time, but
how do you prove they were actually driving at that same point in time?

Quote from Velvet: "freephone, reg number and time."
That is, time provided by the responsible and sensible citizen indicates
that the _driver_ was seen using his/her phone while *driving*.

As an example of how important *facts* are, the quote is from MartinM, not
Velvet.

Steve Walton said:

On 19 Nov 2004 02:15:48 -0800, "MartinM" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

erics said:

"MartinM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Just a thought: if there are now rewards for shopping DSS

frauds,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

why

Quoted message said:

> not have the same for drivers on 'phones? can't be that hard,
> freephone, reg number and time, they can get the rest of the
> information from the cellphone company. The number of oblivous

drivers

Quoted message said:

> still with the bloody things welded to their ears beggars

belief.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
the cellphone records prove they were on the phone at the said

time,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but how

Quoted message said:

do you prove they were actually driving at that same point in

time?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I was just having this conversation with a colleague; possibly by
reference to the cellphone mast; I beleive they can pinpoint your
whereabouts (so presumably if you are moving as well) using this

method

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but probably only viable for serious crimes in terms of police time.

i expect that this is easy, what isn't easy is finding the phone
number in the first place ?

pay-as-you go numbers don't have to be registered to real people.

Orange do; I had to put my name down to connect to PAYG for my son's
'phone

"MartinM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

erics said:

"MartinM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just a thought: if there are now rewards for shopping DSS frauds,

why

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not have the same for drivers on 'phones? can't be that hard,
freephone, reg number and time, they can get the rest of the
information from the cellphone company. The number of oblivous

drivers

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

still with the bloody things welded to their ears beggars belief.

the cellphone records prove they were on the phone at the said time,

but how

Quoted message said:

do you prove they were actually driving at that same point in time?

I was just having this conversation with a colleague; possibly by
reference to the cellphone mast; I beleive they can pinpoint your
whereabouts (so presumably if you are moving as well) using this method
but probably only viable for serious crimes in terms of police time.

So you just claim you were a passenger? Or you accidently left the phone
connected? Or that you was using the phone but were using it in hands free
mode? Its then your word against his, and the police wouldn't have the time
or the CPS the money to pursue it any further. Often the police have video
cameras installed in cars that they use to prove such cases (or am I watcing
too many crime shows?) - seems to me physical evidence is required unless
you can provide a weight of evidence that would be greater than any claim of
denial.

It annoys the hell out of me to see people using there phones while driving
as I have had a few near misses of people not concentrating or not fully in
control of their car. When the ban first come out you didn't see that many
people using phones while driving. You only have to sit in a traffic queue
for a few minutes to see the reps getting on the phones - the traffic moves
and they carry on their conversations.

I have in the past reported a female driver to the police whom I saw driving
with a child in the car (expensive) for at least 5 miles and turned into a
private school. The response from the Bill was "did I have a witness?" if I
had I could make an official complaint at my local station. So I guess if 2
of you saw a driver on the phone you could get the person "sorted".

As far as business users go, I have contacted a couple of companies TNT and
NTL after I saw a couple of their drivers on the phone. One had a pager in
one hand and mobile in the other. The responses from the companies are
usually apologetic and say that the drivers will undergo re-training.

Peter

Peter Riley-Jordan said:

I have in the past reported a female driver to the police whom I saw driving
with a child in the car (expensive) for at least 5 miles and turned into a
private school.

I hope you're implying that her crime was to use a phone whilst driving?
Or were you objecting to female drivers, expensive cars or private
school parents? ;-)

--
Mark.
http://tranchant.plus.com/

Mark - No reflection on her sex at all, nor the use of expensive cars, or
private schools, it's just her stupidity that got to me. Very young child on
board, a blatant disregard for it's safety and other road users including
myself.

If they can afford a vehicle like that surely a few quid to go hands-free
would not break the bank.

Peter

"Mark Tranchant" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter Riley-Jordan said:

I have in the past reported a female driver to the police whom I saw

driving

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

with a child in the car (expensive) for at least 5 miles and turned into

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

private school.

I hope you're implying that her crime was to use a phone whilst driving?
Or were you objecting to female drivers, expensive cars or private
school parents? ;-)

--
Mark.
http://tranchant.plus.com/

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Ziggi
<[email hidden]> gently breathed:

Quoted message said:

Sorry about the quote mistake. And for the question how to prove that
the driver was seen using his/her phone while driving, well you can't
really. Or may be there are ways to do it. Gotta think about it.

You'd have to photograph them driving while on the phone. Perhaps we
need a GATSO variant that can detect mobile phone signals approaching at
faster than walking pace and fire off a pic as the car passes? :-)

--
- Pyromancer Stormshadow.
http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk <-- Pagan Gothic Rock!
http://www.littlematchgirl.co.uk <-- Electronic Metal!
http://www.revival.stormshadow.com <-- The Gothic Revival.

Pyromancer said:

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Ziggi
<[email hidden]> gently breathed:

Quoted message said:

Sorry about the quote mistake. And for the question how to prove

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the driver was seen using his/her phone while driving, well you

can't

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

really. Or may be there are ways to do it. Gotta think about it.

You'd have to photograph them driving while on the phone. Perhaps we
need a GATSO variant that can detect mobile phone signals approaching

at

Quoted message said:

faster than walking pace and fire off a pic as the car passes? :-)

Not all that improbable; if my minidisc player can pick up the
bleepy-bleep noise of a phone ringing on the train then it ought to be
possible. I'm sure if a train driver caused a crash through talking on
a mobile there would be demands for all sorts of warnings/ATP/TPWS etc.