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MMR legal bid blocked

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
2 October 2003
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4 October 2003
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john
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  1. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3155538.stm

    MMR legal bid blocked

    MMR jab is highly controversial
    Campaigners have had to shelve plans for legal action over the
    controversial measles, mumps and rubella vaccine.
    The High Court was due to hear the cases of more than 1,000 children
    who developed medical problems after having the jab.

    But the campaigners were unable to overturn a decision to deny them
    legal aid.

    Most scientists believe the vaccine is safe despite fears of a link
    to autism and bowel disorders.

    The decision will only confirm the view that the combined powers of
    government and drug companies are working against vaccine victims
    receiving justice

    Jackie Fletcher
    And the Legal Services Commission (LSC) decided in the absence of any
    scientific proof of a link, that the legal action - against the drug
    companies who manufacture the vaccine - stood little chance of
    success.

    It said it would be wrong to spend £10m of public money pursuing the
    cases.

    The children involved in the court cases suffered disabilities such
    as autism, bowel problems, epilepsy and other learning difficulties.

    JABS, which supports parents of vaccine-damaged children, described
    the decision to deny legal aid was "illogical, perverse and not in
    the public interest".

    National co-ordinator Jackie Fletcher said: "The decision to halt the
    cases now, following the provision of new evidence in support of the
    children's cases, will only confirm the view that the combined powers
    of government and drug companies are working against vaccine victims
    receiving justice."

    Vital cases

    Ms Fletcher, whose 11-year-old son developed epilepsy and other
    problems after having the MMR jab, added: "These families believe
    their children are vaccine-damaged and need to know why their
    children's lives changed so dramatically within such a short time of
    the MMR vaccine being given if it wasn't the vaccine.

    "The MMR court cases were vital not only to the families involved in
    the pursuit of justice for their children, but for all parents who
    are concerned about whether the vaccines they are giving their
    healthy children are safe."

    This litigation is very unlikely to prove their suspicions

    Clare Dodgson
    Ms Fletcher said the UK's vaccine damage compensation scheme was
    wholly inadequate.

    Solicitors Alexander Harris, representing the families involved in
    the MMR battle, expressed disappointment at the ruling.

    A spokesman said: "We have been fighting these cases for a number of
    years and despite many difficulties the evidence has continued to
    strengthen - and has the support of the international team of experts
    advising us in the cases.

    "We strongly believe in these cases and will be doing our utmost to
    continue to move this litigation and the issues forward."

    Long shot

    Clare Dodgson, LSC chief executive, said: "I appreciate that this
    decision will come as a great disappointment to the parents involved.

    "I sympathise with their situation. Their children are clearly ill
    and they genuinely believe the MMR vaccine caused their illnesses.

    "However, this litigation is very unlikely to prove their suspicions.

    "It would be wrong to raise their hopes unreasonably by proceeding
    with this litigation."

    The LSC has already spent £15m on research into the cases. This would
    now be submitted to the Medical Research Council, who are looking at
    the causes of autism.

    The Department of Health said they hoped the LSC's decision
    would "draw a line" under the MMR issue.

    A spokesman said: "We want to see parents given the facts about MMR -
    that there is no credible scientific evidence showing an association
    between MMR and autism."

    "It remains the best form of protection for your child."

  2. In article <[email hidden]>,

    john said:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3155538.stm

    MMR legal bid blocked

    MMR jab is highly controversial
    Campaigners have had to shelve plans for legal action over the
    controversial measles, mumps and rubella vaccine.
    The High Court was due to hear the cases of more than 1,000 children
    who developed medical problems after having the jab.

    But the campaigners were unable to overturn a decision to deny them
    legal aid.

    Most scientists believe the vaccine is safe despite fears of a link
    to autism and bowel disorders.

    The decision will only confirm the view that the combined powers of
    government and drug companies are working against vaccine victims
    receiving justice

    Yeah, well, paranoia works like that. And once you're emotionally
    invested in the idea that some sinister external force (MMR, mercury,
    evil demons) has caused your child to become autistic, you're not
    going to want to let it go.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
    were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  3. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: MMR legal bid blocked
    From: [email hidden] (David Wright)
    Date: 10/2/2003 7:03 AM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    john said:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3155538.stm

    MMR legal bid blocked

    MMR jab is highly controversial
    Campaigners have had to shelve plans for legal action over the
    controversial measles, mumps and rubella vaccine.
    The High Court was due to hear the cases of more than 1,000 children
    who developed medical problems after having the jab.

    But the campaigners were unable to overturn a decision to deny them
    legal aid.

    Most scientists believe the vaccine is safe despite fears of a link
    to autism and bowel disorders.

    The decision will only confirm the view that the combined powers of
    government and drug companies are working against vaccine victims
    receiving justice

    Quoted message said:

    Yeah, well, paranoia works like that.

    That's your twist, no paranoia involved.

    Quoted message said:


    And once you're emotionally
    invested in the idea that some sinister external force (MMR, mercury,

    Quoted message said:

    evil demons)

    There's more twisting, nothing was said about evil demons.

    Quoted message said:

    has caused your child to become autistic, you're not
    going to want to let it go.

    You betcha, and if it were YOUR child?

    David is off and running adding words to posts, showing no comapssion for
    damaged kids, his only concern is protect organized medicine.

    Sad.

    Jan

  4. "David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    john said:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3155538.stm

    MMR legal bid blocked


    ....snip> > The decision will only confirm the view that the combined powers
    of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    government and drug companies are working against vaccine victims
    receiving justice

    Yeah, well, paranoia works like that. And once you're emotionally
    invested in the idea that some sinister external force (MMR, mercury,
    evil demons) has caused your child to become autistic, you're not
    going to want to let it go.


    ....

    For those who are NOT paranoid... this is actually good news. Now that the
    public funding that would have gone to waste trying to prove a false
    connection -- can now be used to provide therapy for the affected kids.
    Which is what the parents should have been working on instead.

  5. "HCN" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    john said:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3155538.stm

    MMR legal bid blocked


    ...snip> > The decision will only confirm the view that the combined


    powers

    Quoted message said:

    of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    government and drug companies are working against vaccine victims
    receiving justice

    Yeah, well, paranoia works like that. And once you're emotionally
    invested in the idea that some sinister external force (MMR, mercury,
    evil demons) has caused your child to become autistic, you're not
    going to want to let it go.


    ...

    For those who are NOT paranoid... this is actually good news. Now that


    the

    Quoted message said:

    public funding that would have gone to waste trying to prove a false
    connection -- can now be used to provide therapy for the affected kids.
    Which is what the parents should have been working on instead.

    Absolutely! Appropriate treatment, special education, etc. is what the
    parents hould be worrying about. It is hard enough for most parents to get
    the minimal special education their child needs.

    There also should be a real push to find the real cause of autism, etc.

  6. "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: MMR legal bid blocked
    From: [email hidden] (David Wright)
    Date: 10/2/2003 7:03 AM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    john said:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3155538.stm

    MMR legal bid blocked

    MMR jab is highly controversial
    Campaigners have had to shelve plans for legal action over the
    controversial measles, mumps and rubella vaccine.
    The High Court was due to hear the cases of more than 1,000 children
    who developed medical problems after having the jab.

    But the campaigners were unable to overturn a decision to deny them
    legal aid.

    Most scientists believe the vaccine is safe despite fears of a link
    to autism and bowel disorders.

    The decision will only confirm the view that the combined powers of
    government and drug companies are working against vaccine victims
    receiving justice

    Quoted message said:

    Yeah, well, paranoia works like that.

    That's your twist, no paranoia involved.

    Quoted message said:


    And once you're emotionally
    invested in the idea that some sinister external force (MMR, mercury,

    Quoted message said:

    evil demons)

    There's more twisting, nothing was said about evil demons.

    Quoted message said:

    has caused your child to become autistic, you're not
    going to want to let it go.

    You betcha, and if it were YOUR child?

    David is off and running adding words to posts, showing no comapssion for
    damaged kids, his only concern is protect organized medicine.

    David has plenty of compassion for kids with problems such as autism. So do
    I.

    Remember, I have two kids, one with CP the other with ADHD, and I have
    compassion and understanding for what other parents go through.

    However, I have zero compassion for lying dirtbags who prey on parents such
    as these. These vultures pump up the blame game and this interferes with the
    parents getting on with parenting.

    Parenting is hard enough these days, and playing the blame game saps your
    strength. AFAIC, the best decision we ever made was to forego blaming my
    wife's OB/GYN for the premature birth and associated complications, (and we
    had a reasonable basis for it) and getting on with being parents to two
    great kids.

    AFAIAC, thse vultures should drop dead.

  7. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Marky Proberty said:


    "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: MMR legal bid blocked
    From: [email hidden] (David Wright)
    Date: 10/2/2003 7:03 AM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    john <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3155538.stm
    >
    >MMR legal bid blocked
    >
    >MMR jab is highly controversial
    >Campaigners have had to shelve plans for legal action over the
    >controversial measles, mumps and rubella vaccine.
    >The High Court was due to hear the cases of more than 1,000 children
    >who developed medical problems after having the jab.
    >
    >But the campaigners were unable to overturn a decision to deny them
    >legal aid.
    >
    >Most scientists believe the vaccine is safe despite fears of a link
    >to autism and bowel disorders.
    >
    > The decision will only confirm the view that the combined powers of
    >government and drug companies are working against vaccine victims
    >receiving justice

    Quoted message said:

    Yeah, well, paranoia works like that.

    That's your twist, no paranoia involved.

    Quoted message said:


    And once you're emotionally
    invested in the idea that some sinister external force (MMR, mercury,

    Quoted message said:

    evil demons)

    There's more twisting, nothing was said about evil demons.

    Quoted message said:

    has caused your child to become autistic, you're not
    going to want to let it go.

    You betcha, and if it were YOUR child?

    David is off and running adding words to posts, showing no comapssion for
    damaged kids, his only concern is protect organized medicine.

    David has plenty of compassion for kids with problems such as autism. So do
    I.

    Correct, and for their parents. It can be a tremendous burden having
    an autistic child.

    Quoted message said:

    Remember, I have two kids, one with CP the other with ADHD, and I have
    compassion and understanding for what other parents go through.

    However, I have zero compassion for lying dirtbags who prey on parents such
    as these. These vultures pump up the blame game and this interferes with the
    parents getting on with parenting.

    Parenting is hard enough these days, and playing the blame game saps your
    strength. AFAIC, the best decision we ever made was to forego blaming my
    wife's OB/GYN for the premature birth and associated complications, (and we
    had a reasonable basis for it) and getting on with being parents to two
    great kids.

    AFAIAC, thse vultures should drop dead.

    Hear, hear. I have *no* sympathy for the "vaccines harmed my child"
    posse, at least in most cases. Sure, there is such a thing as a bad
    vaccine reaction and anyone in that boat should be compensated, even
    though money is a pretty weak compensation -- any decent parent would
    trade the money for a whole, healthy child in a heartbeat.

    But there's a library full of evidence that MMR, mercury, etc. are not
    the causes of autism. The monomaniacs who insist otherwise are their
    own worst enemies, with their preconceived ideas blocking the chance
    for real research into the true causes.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
    were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  8. "David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    john said:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3155538.stm

    MMR legal bid blocked

    MMR jab is highly controversial
    Campaigners have had to shelve plans for legal action over the
    controversial measles, mumps and rubella vaccine.
    The High Court was due to hear the cases of more than 1,000 children
    who developed medical problems after having the jab.

    But the campaigners were unable to overturn a decision to deny them
    legal aid.

    Most scientists believe the vaccine is safe despite fears of a link
    to autism and bowel disorders.

    The decision will only confirm the view that the combined powers of
    government and drug companies are working against vaccine victims
    receiving justice

    Yeah, well, paranoia works like that. And once you're emotionally
    invested in the idea that some sinister external force (MMR, mercury,
    evil demons) has caused your child to become autistic, you're not
    going to want to let it go.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
    were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  9. "john" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3155538.stm

    MMR legal bid blocked

    MMR jab is highly controversial
    Campaigners have had to shelve plans for legal action over the
    controversial measles, mumps and rubella vaccine.
    The High Court was due to hear the cases of more than 1,000 children
    who developed medical problems after having the jab.

    But the campaigners were unable to overturn a decision to deny them
    legal aid.

    Most scientists believe the vaccine is safe despite fears of a link
    to autism and bowel disorders.

    The decision will only confirm the view that the combined powers of
    government and drug companies are working against vaccine victims
    receiving justice

    Or that the justice system is sometimes able seperate fanatasy (that autism
    is caused by MMR) and reality (autism is not caused by MMR). Reality won in
    the courts this time.

    Quoted message said:


    Jackie Fletcher
    And the Legal Services Commission (LSC) decided in the absence of any
    scientific proof of a link, that the legal action - against the drug
    companies who manufacture the vaccine - stood little chance of
    success.

    Gee. No scientific proof that MMR causes autism? Gee, sounds like a good
    reason not to pursue this.

    Quoted message said:

    It said it would be wrong to spend £10m of public money pursuing the
    cases.

    Yeah, I would agree.

    Quoted message said:

    The children involved in the court cases suffered disabilities such
    as autism, bowel problems, epilepsy and other learning difficulties.

    None of which are caused by MMR.

    Quoted message said:

    JABS, which supports parents of vaccine-damaged children, described
    the decision to deny legal aid was "illogical, perverse and not in
    the public interest".

    Yeah, right. Regardless of whether or not the children deserve public aid,
    the fact remains that there is no evidence that MMR causes this problems.

    Quoted message said:

    National co-ordinator Jackie Fletcher said: "The decision to halt the
    cases now, following the provision of new evidence in support of the
    children's cases, will only confirm the view that the combined powers
    of government and drug companies are working against vaccine victims
    receiving justice."

    Actually, it seems that justice was done. I fail to understand why the
    vaccine companies should have to pay for problems that their vaccines do not
    cause.

    Quoted message said:

    Vital cases

    Ms Fletcher, whose 11-year-old son developed epilepsy and other
    problems after having the MMR jab, added: "These families believe
    their children are vaccine-damaged and need to know why their
    children's lives changed so dramatically within such a short time of
    the MMR vaccine being given if it wasn't the vaccine.

    Families may believe that MMR causes harm. That does not make it so.

    Quoted message said:

    "The MMR court cases were vital not only to the families involved in
    the pursuit of justice for their children, but for all parents who
    are concerned about whether the vaccines they are giving their
    healthy children are safe."

    This litigation is very unlikely to prove their suspicions

    Clare Dodgson
    Ms Fletcher said the UK's vaccine damage compensation scheme was
    wholly inadequate.

    Sounds like it works to me.

    Quoted message said:

    Solicitors Alexander Harris, representing the families involved in
    the MMR battle, expressed disappointment at the ruling.

    A spokesman said: "We have been fighting these cases for a number of
    years and despite many difficulties the evidence has continued to
    strengthen - and has the support of the international team of experts
    advising us in the cases.

    Gee. According to the lawyer, there is inadequate evidence. Gee.

    Quoted message said:

    "We strongly believe in these cases and will be doing our utmost to
    continue to move this litigation and the issues forward."

    And strongly want the money. Too bad that these efforts were not diverted to
    helping the kids.

    Quoted message said:

    Long shot

    Clare Dodgson, LSC chief executive, said: "I appreciate that this
    decision will come as a great disappointment to the parents involved.

    "I sympathise with their situation. Their children are clearly ill
    and they genuinely believe the MMR vaccine caused their illnesses.

    I sympathize with their situation. However, MMR did not cause it.

    Quoted message said:

    "However, this litigation is very unlikely to prove their suspicions.

    I agree. The truth is irrelevent to those who beleive they know what
    happened.

    Quoted message said:

    "It would be wrong to raise their hopes unreasonably by proceeding
    with this litigation."

    Not to mention wrong to pursue the litigation because vaccines do not cause
    autism.

    Quoted message said:

    The LSC has already spent £15m on research into the cases. This would
    now be submitted to the Medical Research Council, who are looking at
    the causes of autism.

    The Department of Health said they hoped the LSC's decision
    would "draw a line" under the MMR issue.

    A spokesman said: "We want to see parents given the facts about MMR -
    that there is no credible scientific evidence showing an association
    between MMR and autism."

    "It remains the best form of protection for your child."

    Correct.

    Jeff

  10. "David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Marky Proberty said:


    "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    >Subject: Re: MMR legal bid blocked
    >From: [email hidden] (David Wright)
    >Date: 10/2/2003 7:03 AM Pacific Standard Time
    >Message-id: <[email hidden]>
    >
    >In article <[email hidden]>,
    >john <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3155538.stm
    >>
    >>MMR legal bid blocked
    >>
    >>MMR jab is highly controversial
    >>Campaigners have had to shelve plans for legal action over the
    >>controversial measles, mumps and rubella vaccine.
    >>The High Court was due to hear the cases of more than 1,000 children
    >>who developed medical problems after having the jab.
    >>
    >>But the campaigners were unable to overturn a decision to deny them
    >>legal aid.
    >>
    >>Most scientists believe the vaccine is safe despite fears of a link
    >>to autism and bowel disorders.
    >>
    >> The decision will only confirm the view that the combined powers of
    >>government and drug companies are working against vaccine victims
    >>receiving justice

    >Yeah, well, paranoia works like that.

    That's your twist, no paranoia involved.
    >
    And once you're emotionally
    invested in the idea that some sinister external force (MMR, mercury,
    >evil demons)

    There's more twisting, nothing was said about evil demons.

    >has caused your child to become autistic, you're not
    >going to want to let it go.

    You betcha, and if it were YOUR child?

    David is off and running adding words to posts, showing no comapssion


    for

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    damaged kids, his only concern is protect organized medicine.

    David has plenty of compassion for kids with problems such as autism. So


    do

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I.

    Correct, and for their parents. It can be a tremendous burden having
    an autistic child.

    Quoted message said:

    Remember, I have two kids, one with CP the other with ADHD, and I have
    compassion and understanding for what other parents go through.

    However, I have zero compassion for lying dirtbags who prey on parents


    such

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    as these. These vultures pump up the blame game and this interferes with


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    parents getting on with parenting.

    Parenting is hard enough these days, and playing the blame game saps your
    strength. AFAIC, the best decision we ever made was to forego blaming my
    wife's OB/GYN for the premature birth and associated complications, (and


    we

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    had a reasonable basis for it) and getting on with being parents to two
    great kids.

    AFAIAC, thse vultures should drop dead.

    Hear, hear. I have *no* sympathy for the "vaccines harmed my child"
    posse, at least in most cases.

    Agreed. I call those cases "parents duped by the liars, like Jan."

    Sure, there is such a thing as a bad

    Quoted message said:

    vaccine reaction and anyone in that boat should be compensated, even
    though money is a pretty weak compensation -- any decent parent would
    trade the money for a whole, healthy child in a heartbeat.

    Naturally. I know of one family that did sue, over something other than
    vaccines, and netted around $750K. We had dinner out a few weeks ago, around
    a month after they recevied their money, and I asked them if it was worth
    it. Later in the eveing, each mentioned that they feel that it was not, as
    there was no solace in the money, and their kid is just the same.

    They are financially comfortable, and they did not *need* the money.
    Interestingly, both asked me not to mention what they said to their spouses,
    as they were equally certain that it was their spouse who wanted to to
    pursue the suit.

    Quoted message said:

    But there's a library full of evidence that MMR, mercury, etc. are not
    the causes of autism. The monomaniacs who insist otherwise are their
    own worst enemies, with their preconceived ideas blocking the chance
    for real research into the true causes.

    We also happen to be friends with a family who does have a certified vaccine
    injured child. She developed polio as a result of the OPV. She is the oldest
    of four kids, and all of them recevied the OPV at the parents insistence.
    The mother is a pediatric nurse practitioner who works in a pediatric ER at
    a level III trauma center, and the father is a chopper pilot for the police.
    They never sued, either, and they are very content with that decision. We
    met them when my son was in pre-school early intervention.

    What does really [censored] me off, though, is how hard it is for parents to get
    the services they need for their kids. It is a constant battle, with the
    "system" designed to deny services. There is a wide gap between financially
    being entitled to services, and being financailly being able to afford them.
    This chasm is akin to the Grand Canyon.

    The parents energies should be focused there.

  11. "Marko Proberto" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    What does really [censored] me off, though, is how hard it is for parents to
    get the services they need for their kids. It is a constant battle,
    with the "system" designed to deny services. There is a wide gap
    between financially being entitled to services, and being financailly
    being able to afford them. This chasm is akin to the Grand Canyon.

    The parents energies should be focused there.

    Yes. The problem is that the assumption that parents ought to be able to
    support their children based on their own earnings breaks down severely
    when one of the kids has a serious developmental disability. That
    assumption forces parents to look for "deep pockets" in an attempt to
    merely afford the costs of raising their special-needs children. If we
    could just overcome our terror of "socialism" (which in the US has roughly
    the connotations of "cooties"; supporting the parents of special-needs kids
    in no way implies collective ownership of the means of production, which is
    what "socialism" means) we might realize that some familes are saddled with
    more costs than they can bear, costs that even someone with an IQ of 180
    couldn't have anticipated, and that a civilized society should provide such
    families with the resources to cope with the demands entailed. The
    alternative is to have parents desperately grasping at straws.

  12. "Eric Bohlman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Marko Proberto" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    What does really [censored] me off, though, is how hard it is for parents to
    get the services they need for their kids. It is a constant battle,
    with the "system" designed to deny services. There is a wide gap
    between financially being entitled to services, and being financailly
    being able to afford them. This chasm is akin to the Grand Canyon.

    The parents energies should be focused there.

    Yes. The problem is that the assumption that parents ought to be able to
    support their children based on their own earnings breaks down severely
    when one of the kids has a serious developmental disability. That
    assumption forces parents to look for "deep pockets" in an attempt to
    merely afford the costs of raising their special-needs children. If we
    could just overcome our terror of "socialism" (which in the US has roughly
    the connotations of "cooties"; supporting the parents of special-needs


    kids

    Quoted message said:

    in no way implies collective ownership of the means of production, which


    is

    Quoted message said:

    what "socialism" means) we might realize that some familes are saddled


    with

    Quoted message said:

    more costs than they can bear, costs that even someone with an IQ of 180
    couldn't have anticipated, and that a civilized society should provide


    such

    Quoted message said:

    families with the resources to cope with the demands entailed. The
    alternative is to have parents desperately grasping at straws.

    Like the family with four sons witrh Duchene's muscular dystrophy we met
    several years ago.

  13. --

    "Eric Bohlman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Marko Proberto" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    What does really [censored] me off, though, is how hard it is for parents to
    get the services they need for their kids. It is a constant battle,
    with the "system" designed to deny services. There is a wide gap
    between financially being entitled to services, and being financailly
    being able to afford them. This chasm is akin to the Grand Canyon.

    The parents energies should be focused there.

    Yes. The problem is that the assumption that parents ought to be able to
    support their children based on their own earnings breaks down severely
    when one of the kids has a serious developmental disability. That
    assumption forces parents to look for "deep pockets" in an attempt to
    merely afford the costs of raising their special-needs children. If we
    could just overcome our terror of "socialism" (which in the US has roughly
    the connotations of "cooties"; supporting the parents of special-needs


    kids

    Quoted message said:

    in no way implies collective ownership of the means of production, which


    is

    Quoted message said:

    what "socialism" means) we might realize that some familes are saddled


    with

    Quoted message said:

    more costs than they can bear, costs that even someone with an IQ of 180
    couldn't have anticipated, and that a civilized society should provide


    such

    Quoted message said:

    families with the resources to cope with the demands entailed. The
    alternative is to have parents desperately grasping at straws.

    What about the poor parents of unvaccinated children who were damaged by
    measles or rubella or chickenpox? Besides having to live with the guilt of
    having made the wrong decision about their child's healthcare, they find
    that the REAL guilty parties, the Jans and Mercolas and their ilk who
    promote anti-vaccine phobias, have no "deep pockets" to dip into for help.

    --Rich

  14. "Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    --

    "Eric Bohlman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Marko Proberto" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    What does really [censored] me off, though, is how hard it is for parents to
    get the services they need for their kids. It is a constant battle,
    with the "system" designed to deny services. There is a wide gap
    between financially being entitled to services, and being financailly
    being able to afford them. This chasm is akin to the Grand Canyon.

    The parents energies should be focused there.

    Yes. The problem is that the assumption that parents ought to be able


    to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    support their children based on their own earnings breaks down severely
    when one of the kids has a serious developmental disability. That
    assumption forces parents to look for "deep pockets" in an attempt to
    merely afford the costs of raising their special-needs children. If we
    could just overcome our terror of "socialism" (which in the US has


    roughly

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the connotations of "cooties"; supporting the parents of special-needs


    kids

    Quoted message said:

    in no way implies collective ownership of the means of production, which


    is

    Quoted message said:

    what "socialism" means) we might realize that some familes are saddled


    with

    Quoted message said:

    more costs than they can bear, costs that even someone with an IQ of 180
    couldn't have anticipated, and that a civilized society should provide


    such

    Quoted message said:

    families with the resources to cope with the demands entailed. The
    alternative is to have parents desperately grasping at straws.

    What about the poor parents of unvaccinated children who were damaged by
    measles or rubella or chickenpox? Besides having to live with the guilt of
    having made the wrong decision about their child's healthcare, they find
    that the REAL guilty parties, the Jans and Mercolas and their ilk who
    promote anti-vaccine phobias, have no "deep pockets" to dip into for help.

    Good point. I have mentioned in the past that I have a friend who was a ped
    neuro whose son was brain damaeged by what is now a vaccine preventable
    disease. It is sad that the Jan's ane Mercoal's of the world want this to
    continue to happen.

    He now practices general pediatrics and insists that all patients either get
    vaccinated, or go elsewhere.

  15. Quoted message said:

    From: Eric Bohlman [email hidden]
    Date: 10/3/2003 6:26 AM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    "Marko Proberto" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    What does really [censored] me off, though, is how hard it is for parents to
    get the services they need for their kids. It is a constant battle,
    with the "system" designed to deny services. There is a wide gap
    between financially being entitled to services, and being financailly
    being able to afford them. This chasm is akin to the Grand Canyon.

    The parents energies should be focused there.

    Yes. The problem is that the assumption that parents ought to be able to
    support their children based on their own earnings breaks down severely
    when one of the kids has a serious developmental disability. That
    assumption forces parents to look for "deep pockets" in an attempt to
    merely afford the costs of raising their special-needs children. If we
    could just overcome our terror of "socialism" (which in the US has roughly
    the connotations of "cooties"; supporting the parents of special-needs kids
    in no way implies collective ownership of the means of production, which is
    what "socialism" means) we might realize that some familes are saddled with
    more costs than they can bear, costs that even someone with an IQ of 180
    couldn't have anticipated, and that a civilized society should provide such
    families with the resources to cope with the demands entailed. The
    alternative is to have parents desperately grasping at straws.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3155538.stm

    MMR legal bid blocked

    MMR jab is highly controversial
    Campaigners have had to shelve plans for legal action over the
    controversial measles, mumps and rubella vaccine.
    The High Court was due to hear the cases of more than 1,000 children
    who developed medical problems after having the jab.

    But the campaigners were unable to overturn a decision to deny them
    legal aid.

    Most scientists believe the vaccine is safe despite fears of a link
    to autism and bowel disorders.

    The decision will only confirm the view that the combined powers of
    government and drug companies are working against vaccine victims
    receiving justice

    Jackie Fletcher
    And the Legal Services Commission (LSC) decided in the absence of any
    scientific proof of a link, that the legal action - against the drug
    companies who manufacture the vaccine - stood little chance of
    success.

    It said it would be wrong to spend £10m of public money pursuing the
    cases.

    The children involved in the court cases suffered disabilities such
    as autism, bowel problems, epilepsy and other learning difficulties.

    JABS, which supports parents of vaccine-damaged children, described
    the decision to deny legal aid was "illogical, perverse and not in
    the public interest".

    National co-ordinator Jackie Fletcher said: "The decision to halt the
    cases now, following the provision of new evidence in support of the
    children's cases, will only confirm the view that the combined powers
    of government and drug companies are working against vaccine victims
    receiving justice."

    Vital cases

    Ms Fletcher, whose 11-year-old son developed epilepsy and other
    problems after having the MMR jab, added: "These families believe
    their children are vaccine-damaged and need to know why their
    children's lives changed so dramatically within such a short time of
    the MMR vaccine being given if it wasn't the vaccine.

    "The MMR court cases were vital not only to the families involved in
    the pursuit of justice for their children, but for all parents who
    are concerned about whether the vaccines they are giving their
    healthy children are safe."

    This litigation is very unlikely to prove their suspicions

    Clare Dodgson
    Ms Fletcher said the UK's vaccine damage compensation scheme was
    wholly inadequate.

    Solicitors Alexander Harris, representing the families involved in
    the MMR battle, expressed disappointment at the ruling.

    A spokesman said: "We have been fighting these cases for a number of
    years and despite many difficulties the evidence has continued to
    strengthen - and has the support of the international team of experts
    advising us in the cases.

    "We strongly believe in these cases and will be doing our utmost to
    continue to move this litigation and the issues forward."

    Long shot

    Clare Dodgson, LSC chief executive, said: "I appreciate that this
    decision will come as a great disappointment to the parents involved.

    "I sympathise with their situation. Their children are clearly ill
    and they genuinely believe the MMR vaccine caused their illnesses.

    "However, this litigation is very unlikely to prove their suspicions.

    "It would be wrong to raise their hopes unreasonably by proceeding
    with this litigation."

    The LSC has already spent £15m on research into the cases. This would
    now be submitted to the Medical Research Council, who are looking at
    the causes of autism.

    The Department of Health said they hoped the LSC's decision
    would "draw a line" under the MMR issue.

    A spokesman said: "We want to see parents given the facts about MMR -
    that there is no credible scientific evidence showing an association
    between MMR and autism."

    "It remains the best form of protection for your child."

  16. "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    From: Eric Bohlman [email hidden]
    Date: 10/3/2003 6:26 AM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    "Marko Proberto" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    What does really [censored] me off, though, is how hard it is for parents to
    get the services they need for their kids. It is a constant battle,
    with the "system" designed to deny services. There is a wide gap
    between financially being entitled to services, and being financailly
    being able to afford them. This chasm is akin to the Grand Canyon.

    The parents energies should be focused there.

    Yes. The problem is that the assumption that parents ought to be able to
    support their children based on their own earnings breaks down severely
    when one of the kids has a serious developmental disability. That
    assumption forces parents to look for "deep pockets" in an attempt to
    merely afford the costs of raising their special-needs children. If we
    could just overcome our terror of "socialism" (which in the US has


    roughly

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the connotations of "cooties"; supporting the parents of special-needs


    kids

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    in no way implies collective ownership of the means of production, which


    is

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    what "socialism" means) we might realize that some familes are saddled


    with

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    more costs than they can bear, costs that even someone with an IQ of 180
    couldn't have anticipated, and that a civilized society should provide


    such

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    families with the resources to cope with the demands entailed. The
    alternative is to have parents desperately grasping at straws.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3155538.stm

    MMR legal bid blocked

    Quoted message said:

    "It remains the best form of protection for your child."

    And thankfully, they wil not waste money on bogus testing and spend it one
    the kids.

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