General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

MLMs just one more time

DappleAndWasser · 2004-06-02T20:57:14+00:00

Some weeks ago some MLMer came to our house to "introduce us to a business opportunity". His business was Reliv, an all-in-one nutritional supplement. He said that he was earning $8000 per month on his business. He said that he was not a salesman. These two statements should make alarms go off in your head, and they illustrate one of the things wrong with MLMs. The products turned out to be utterly devoid of any fatty acids whatsoever. It was a crippled supplement. I didn't tell him. I didn't tell him because he has a desperately intense vested interest in selling Reliv and getting me to sign up as a dealer under him. He couldn't just go somewhere else if the product turned out to be bad. If he were a real salesman, then, say he was selling Chevrolets and decided that Chevys sucked. He could just go over to the Toyota dealership and fill out an application for a job. Or perhaps he just became tired of selling cars, he could apply to sell furniture. But as a non-salesman making a really large monthly income, he is enslaved to his product. And no matter how bad he may discover it is, he ain't going anywhere. This also contributes to the dishonesty. Reliv has him by the balls. He worships Reliv. If I tried to tell him that his product sucked (which in my opinion it does), he would never believe me. His critical faculties work for Reliv; his critical thinking is enslaved to Reliv. Some months ago I mentioned another problem with MLMs. The huge number of people between the manufacturer and the customer. With normal selling schemes, the distance from the manufacturer is perhaps 3 people. With MLMs, it can be as much as 20 people or more. This compounds the tendency toward dishonesty. MLMs may be good for the company. And they may be OK for some customers. But they completely and utterly suck for almost all distributors, except a very, very few. MLMs are for the most part pyramid schemes in disguise. Don't abandon your critical thinking skills. Don't be a mush-head. The problem with debunkers is that they limit themselves to critical thinking. This is no reason to fly to the opposite extreme and abandon your critical thinking skills. Don't be a mush-head. Steer clear of MLMs. Even an herb ninny like me has the wisdom from hard experience to know that MLMs are for the most part traps.

Started by DappleAndWasser · 2 June 2004 · Last activity 6 June 2004 · 18 posts · 662 views

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Original section: General fitness, health and nutrition
Published: 2 June 2004
Last activity: 6 June 2004
Original author: DappleAndWasser
Posts: 18
Discussion status: Public discussion
Total views: 662
Views / 30 days: 0

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Original post
DappleAndWasser
Archived post

2 June 2004, 20:57 UTC #1

Some weeks ago some MLMer came to our house to "introduce us to a
business opportunity". His business was Reliv, an all-in-one
nutritional supplement.
He said that he was earning $8000 per month on his business.
He said that he was not a salesman.
These two statements should make alarms go off in your head, and they
illustrate one of the things wrong with MLMs. The products turned out
to be utterly devoid of any fatty acids whatsoever. It was a crippled
supplement. I didn't tell him. I didn't tell him because he has a
desperately intense vested interest in selling Reliv and getting me to
sign up as a dealer under him. He couldn't just go somewhere else if
the product turned out to be bad. If he were a real salesman, then,
say he was selling Chevrolets and decided that Chevys sucked. He
could just go over to the Toyota dealership and fill out an
application for a job. Or perhaps he just became tired of selling
cars, he could apply to sell furniture. But as a non-salesman making
a really large monthly income, he is enslaved to his product. And no
matter how bad he may discover it is, he ain't going anywhere. This
also contributes to the dishonesty. Reliv has him by the balls. He
worships Reliv. If I tried to tell him that his product sucked (which
in my opinion it does), he would never believe me. His critical
faculties work for Reliv; his critical thinking is enslaved to Reliv.
Some months ago I mentioned another problem with MLMs. The huge
number of people between the manufacturer and the customer. With
normal selling schemes, the distance from the manufacturer is perhaps
3 people. With MLMs, it can be as much as 20 people or more. This
compounds the tendency toward dishonesty.
MLMs may be good for the company. And they may be OK for some
customers. But they completely and utterly suck for almost all
distributors, except a very, very few. MLMs are for the most part
pyramid schemes in disguise.
Don't abandon your critical thinking skills. Don't be a mush-head.
The problem with debunkers is that they limit themselves to critical
thinking. This is no reason to fly to the opposite extreme and
abandon your critical thinking skills. Don't be a mush-head. Steer
clear of MLMs. Even an herb ninny like me has the wisdom from hard
experience to know that MLMs are for the most part traps.

Report
Dave Wickware
Archived post

2 June 2004, 21:49 UTC #2

MLM marketing offers people who don't possess the skills to start a
business, the chance to think they
have a business. The MLM marketing model is based on each new signed up
distributor contributing the sale of 2.5 units of the product per person
before they discover that they aren't consultants and they aren't
salespeople and must abandon their
plan.
The sad part is that there are some exceptionally good products that are
being presented by this marketing approach.
"DappleAndWasser" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Some weeks ago some MLMer came to our house to "introduce us to a
business opportunity". His business was Reliv, an all-in-one
nutritional supplement.
He said that he was earning $8000 per month on his business.
He said that he was not a salesman.
These two statements should make alarms go off in your head, and they
illustrate one of the things wrong with MLMs. The products turned out
to be utterly devoid of any fatty acids whatsoever. It was a crippled
supplement. I didn't tell him. I didn't tell him because he has a
desperately intense vested interest in selling Reliv and getting me to
sign up as a dealer under him. He couldn't just go somewhere else if
the product turned out to be bad. If he were a real salesman, then,
say he was selling Chevrolets and decided that Chevys sucked. He
could just go over to the Toyota dealership and fill out an
application for a job. Or perhaps he just became tired of selling
cars, he could apply to sell furniture. But as a non-salesman making
a really large monthly income, he is enslaved to his product. And no
matter how bad he may discover it is, he ain't going anywhere. This
also contributes to the dishonesty. Reliv has him by the balls. He
worships Reliv. If I tried to tell him that his product sucked (which
in my opinion it does), he would never believe me. His critical
faculties work for Reliv; his critical thinking is enslaved to Reliv.
Some months ago I mentioned another problem with MLMs. The huge
number of people between the manufacturer and the customer. With
normal selling schemes, the distance from the manufacturer is perhaps
3 people. With MLMs, it can be as much as 20 people or more. This
compounds the tendency toward dishonesty.
MLMs may be good for the company. And they may be OK for some
customers. But they completely and utterly suck for almost all
distributors, except a very, very few. MLMs are for the most part
pyramid schemes in disguise.
Don't abandon your critical thinking skills. Don't be a mush-head.
The problem with debunkers is that they limit themselves to critical
thinking. This is no reason to fly to the opposite extreme and
abandon your critical thinking skills. Don't be a mush-head. Steer
clear of MLMs. Even an herb ninny like me has the wisdom from hard
experience to know that MLMs are for the most part traps.

Report
David Wright
Archived post

3 June 2004, 03:57 UTC #3

In article <[email hidden]>,
DappleAndWasser said:
MLMs may be good for the company. And they may be OK for some
customers. But they completely and utterly suck for almost all
distributors, except a very, very few. MLMs are for the most part
pyramid schemes in disguise.
Not to mention a good way to alienate your family and soon-to-be-
former friends.
Quoted message said:
Don't abandon your critical thinking skills. Don't be a mush-head.
The problem with debunkers is that they limit themselves to critical
thinking.
Now, now. Debunkers can't debunk anything unless it's bunk to start
with. Besides, what's wrong with critical thinking? (I mean, as long
as you recognize its limitations.)
Quoted message said:
This is no reason to fly to the opposite extreme and
abandon your critical thinking skills. Don't be a mush-head. Steer
clear of MLMs. Even an herb ninny like me has the wisdom from hard
experience to know that MLMs are for the most part traps.
Yep. But you're thinking more clearly about this than many people
ever will, alas.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

Report
Peter Bowditch
Archived post

3 June 2004, 04:36 UTC #4

I find myself agreeing with both Roger Bird and Dave Wickware on the
same day. Two weeks ago I caught myself agreeing with Ralph Moss. I
must check my medication.
Dave Wickware said:
MLM marketing offers people who don't possess the skills to start a
business, the chance to think they
have a business. The MLM marketing model is based on each new signed up
distributor contributing the sale of 2.5 units of the product per person
before they discover that they aren't consultants and they aren't
salespeople and must abandon their
plan.
The sad part is that there are some exceptionally good products that are
being presented by this marketing approach.
"DappleAndWasser" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Some weeks ago some MLMer came to our house to "introduce us to a
business opportunity". His business was Reliv, an all-in-one
nutritional supplement.
He said that he was earning $8000 per month on his business.
He said that he was not a salesman.
These two statements should make alarms go off in your head, and they
illustrate one of the things wrong with MLMs. The products turned out
to be utterly devoid of any fatty acids whatsoever. It was a crippled
supplement. I didn't tell him. I didn't tell him because he has a
desperately intense vested interest in selling Reliv and getting me to
sign up as a dealer under him. He couldn't just go somewhere else if
the product turned out to be bad. If he were a real salesman, then,
say he was selling Chevrolets and decided that Chevys sucked. He
could just go over to the Toyota dealership and fill out an
application for a job. Or perhaps he just became tired of selling
cars, he could apply to sell furniture. But as a non-salesman making
a really large monthly income, he is enslaved to his product. And no
matter how bad he may discover it is, he ain't going anywhere. This
also contributes to the dishonesty. Reliv has him by the balls. He
worships Reliv. If I tried to tell him that his product sucked (which
in my opinion it does), he would never believe me. His critical
faculties work for Reliv; his critical thinking is enslaved to Reliv.
Some months ago I mentioned another problem with MLMs. The huge
number of people between the manufacturer and the customer. With
normal selling schemes, the distance from the manufacturer is perhaps
3 people. With MLMs, it can be as much as 20 people or more. This
compounds the tendency toward dishonesty.
MLMs may be good for the company. And they may be OK for some
customers. But they completely and utterly suck for almost all
distributors, except a very, very few. MLMs are for the most part
pyramid schemes in disguise.
Don't abandon your critical thinking skills. Don't be a mush-head.
The problem with debunkers is that they limit themselves to critical
thinking. This is no reason to fly to the opposite extreme and
abandon your critical thinking skills. Don't be a mush-head. Steer
clear of MLMs. Even an herb ninny like me has the wisdom from hard
experience to know that MLMs are for the most part traps.

--
Peter Bowditch
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
The Green Light http://www.ratbags.com/greenlight
Quintessence of the Loon http://www.ratbags.com/loon
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

Report
M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-June 3, 2004
Archived post

3 June 2004, 13:14 UTC #5

"Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
MLM marketing offers people who don't possess the skills to start a
business, the chance to think they
have a business. The MLM marketing model is based on each new signed up
distributor contributing the sale of 2.5 units of the product per person
before they discover that they aren't consultants and they aren't
salespeople and must abandon their
plan.
Amazingly, Spammin' Dave gets one right. Sort of like the 1000 monkeys with
typewriters writing Shakespeare story.
Quoted message said:
The sad part is that there are some exceptionally good products that are
being presented by this marketing approach.
Disagree wrt the health aspects of MLM. So far, I have yet to see any health
related product which is sold MLM that is worth anything near the price.
Quoted message said:
"DappleAndWasser" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Some weeks ago some MLMer came to our house to "introduce us to a
business opportunity". His business was Reliv, an all-in-one
nutritional supplement.
He said that he was earning $8000 per month on his business.
He said that he was not a salesman.
These two statements should make alarms go off in your head, and they
illustrate one of the things wrong with MLMs. The products turned out
to be utterly devoid of any fatty acids whatsoever. It was a crippled
supplement. I didn't tell him. I didn't tell him because he has a
desperately intense vested interest in selling Reliv and getting me to
sign up as a dealer under him. He couldn't just go somewhere else if
the product turned out to be bad. If he were a real salesman, then,
say he was selling Chevrolets and decided that Chevys sucked. He
could just go over to the Toyota dealership and fill out an
application for a job. Or perhaps he just became tired of selling
cars, he could apply to sell furniture. But as a non-salesman making
a really large monthly income, he is enslaved to his product. And no
matter how bad he may discover it is, he ain't going anywhere. This
also contributes to the dishonesty. Reliv has him by the balls. He
worships Reliv. If I tried to tell him that his product sucked (which
in my opinion it does), he would never believe me. His critical
faculties work for Reliv; his critical thinking is enslaved to Reliv.
Some months ago I mentioned another problem with MLMs. The huge
number of people between the manufacturer and the customer. With
normal selling schemes, the distance from the manufacturer is perhaps
3 people. With MLMs, it can be as much as 20 people or more. This
compounds the tendency toward dishonesty.
MLMs may be good for the company. And they may be OK for some
customers. But they completely and utterly suck for almost all
distributors, except a very, very few. MLMs are for the most part
pyramid schemes in disguise.
Don't abandon your critical thinking skills. Don't be a mush-head.
The problem with debunkers is that they limit themselves to critical
thinking. This is no reason to fly to the opposite extreme and
abandon your critical thinking skills. Don't be a mush-head. Steer
clear of MLMs. Even an herb ninny like me has the wisdom from hard
experience to know that MLMs are for the most part traps.

Report
Dave Wickware
Archived post

3 June 2004, 19:29 UTC #6

"M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-June 3, 2004" <M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t
[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

"Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
MLM marketing offers people who don't possess the skills to start a
business, the chance to think they
have a business. The MLM marketing model is based on each new signed up
distributor contributing the sale of 2.5 units of the product per person
before they discover that they aren't consultants and they aren't
salespeople and must abandon their
plan.
Amazingly, Spammin' Dave gets one right. Sort of like the 1000 monkeys

with
Quoted message said:
typewriters writing Shakespeare story.
Quoted message said:
The sad part is that there are some exceptionally good products that are
being presented by this marketing approach.
Disagree wrt the health aspects of MLM. So far, I have yet to see any

health
Quoted message said:
related product which is sold MLM that is worth anything near the price.
And, of course your opinion is that of a well studied expert in the field of
nutrition!!??
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
"DappleAndWasser" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Some weeks ago some MLMer came to our house to "introduce us to a
business opportunity". His business was Reliv, an all-in-one
nutritional supplement.
He said that he was earning $8000 per month on his business.
He said that he was not a salesman.
These two statements should make alarms go off in your head, and they
illustrate one of the things wrong with MLMs. The products turned out
to be utterly devoid of any fatty acids whatsoever. It was a crippled
supplement. I didn't tell him. I didn't tell him because he has a
desperately intense vested interest in selling Reliv and getting me to
sign up as a dealer under him. He couldn't just go somewhere else if
the product turned out to be bad. If he were a real salesman, then,
say he was selling Chevrolets and decided that Chevys sucked. He
could just go over to the Toyota dealership and fill out an
application for a job. Or perhaps he just became tired of selling
cars, he could apply to sell furniture. But as a non-salesman making
a really large monthly income, he is enslaved to his product. And no
matter how bad he may discover it is, he ain't going anywhere. This
also contributes to the dishonesty. Reliv has him by the balls. He
worships Reliv. If I tried to tell him that his product sucked (which
in my opinion it does), he would never believe me. His critical
faculties work for Reliv; his critical thinking is enslaved to Reliv.
Some months ago I mentioned another problem with MLMs. The huge
number of people between the manufacturer and the customer. With
normal selling schemes, the distance from the manufacturer is perhaps
3 people. With MLMs, it can be as much as 20 people or more. This
compounds the tendency toward dishonesty.
MLMs may be good for the company. And they may be OK for some
customers. But they completely and utterly suck for almost all
distributors, except a very, very few. MLMs are for the most part
pyramid schemes in disguise.
Don't abandon your critical thinking skills. Don't be a mush-head.
The problem with debunkers is that they limit themselves to critical
thinking. This is no reason to fly to the opposite extreme and
abandon your critical thinking skills. Don't be a mush-head. Steer
clear of MLMs. Even an herb ninny like me has the wisdom from hard
experience to know that MLMs are for the most part traps.

Report
DappleAndWasser
Archived post

3 June 2004, 19:42 UTC #7

[email hidden] (David Wright) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
Quoted message said:
Now, now. Debunkers can't debunk anything unless it's bunk to start
with.
This is completely wrong. The very first scientific paper ever
written was by Isaac Newton and he was attacked by Hook. Newton went
into seclusion for 9 years and vowed to never publish again because he
could not stand the contentiousness and putdowns of Hook. If it
wasn't for the gentle encouragement and financial assistance of
Halley, Newton may never have published his work on the motion of
orbiting bodies.
Debunking has been around since the beginning, and Newton's story
illustrates what is wrong with it. Many great ideas have been
suppressed because debunkers often use hostility rather than reason
and evidence.

Report
M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-June 3, 2004
Archived post

3 June 2004, 19:50 UTC #8

"Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

"M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-June 3, 2004" <M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t
[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

"Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
MLM marketing offers people who don't possess the skills to start a
business, the chance to think they
have a business. The MLM marketing model is based on each new signed

up
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
distributor contributing the sale of 2.5 units of the product per

person
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
before they discover that they aren't consultants and they aren't
salespeople and must abandon their
plan.
Amazingly, Spammin' Dave gets one right. Sort of like the 1000 monkeys

with
Quoted message said:
typewriters writing Shakespeare story.
Quoted message said:
The sad part is that there are some exceptionally good products that

are
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
being presented by this marketing approach.
Disagree wrt the health aspects of MLM. So far, I have yet to see any

health
Quoted message said:
related product which is sold MLM that is worth anything near the price.
And, of course your opinion is that of a well studied expert in the field

of
Quoted message said:
nutrition!!??
My opinion is based on not seeing any independent proof of the claims made
by the MLMers. Lots of anecdotes (whcih can be made up, just like Chuck's
degrees). In fact, Anecdote Writing is a required course at the P.T. Barnum
School of Internet Marketing and MLM Scamming.
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
"DappleAndWasser" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Some weeks ago some MLMer came to our house to "introduce us to a
> business opportunity". His business was Reliv, an all-in-one
> nutritional supplement.
>
> He said that he was earning $8000 per month on his business.
>
> He said that he was not a salesman.
>
> These two statements should make alarms go off in your head, and

they
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
> illustrate one of the things wrong with MLMs. The products turned

out
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
> to be utterly devoid of any fatty acids whatsoever. It was a

crippled
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
> supplement. I didn't tell him. I didn't tell him because he has a
> desperately intense vested interest in selling Reliv and getting me

to
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
> sign up as a dealer under him. He couldn't just go somewhere else

if
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
> the product turned out to be bad. If he were a real salesman, then,
> say he was selling Chevrolets and decided that Chevys sucked. He
> could just go over to the Toyota dealership and fill out an
> application for a job. Or perhaps he just became tired of selling
> cars, he could apply to sell furniture. But as a non-salesman

making
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
> a really large monthly income, he is enslaved to his product. And

no
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
> matter how bad he may discover it is, he ain't going anywhere. This
> also contributes to the dishonesty. Reliv has him by the balls. He
> worships Reliv. If I tried to tell him that his product sucked

(which
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
> in my opinion it does), he would never believe me. His critical
> faculties work for Reliv; his critical thinking is enslaved to

Reliv.
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
>
> Some months ago I mentioned another problem with MLMs. The huge
> number of people between the manufacturer and the customer. With
> normal selling schemes, the distance from the manufacturer is

perhaps
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
> 3 people. With MLMs, it can be as much as 20 people or more. This
> compounds the tendency toward dishonesty.
>
> MLMs may be good for the company. And they may be OK for some
> customers. But they completely and utterly suck for almost all
> distributors, except a very, very few. MLMs are for the most part
> pyramid schemes in disguise.
>
> Don't abandon your critical thinking skills. Don't be a mush-head.
> The problem with debunkers is that they limit themselves to critical
> thinking. This is no reason to fly to the opposite extreme and
> abandon your critical thinking skills. Don't be a mush-head. Steer
> clear of MLMs. Even an herb ninny like me has the wisdom from hard
> experience to know that MLMs are for the most part traps.

Report
M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-June 3, 2004
Archived post

3 June 2004, 19:52 UTC #9

"DappleAndWasser" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
[email hidden] (David Wright) wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...
Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:
Now, now. Debunkers can't debunk anything unless it's bunk to start
with.
This is completely wrong.
Read carefully. A debunker removes bunk. If there is no bunk to remove, then
the person cannot be a debunker.
The very first scientific paper ever
Quoted message said:
written was by Isaac Newton and he was attacked by Hook. Newton went
into seclusion for 9 years and vowed to never publish again because he
could not stand the contentiousness and putdowns of Hook. If it
wasn't for the gentle encouragement and financial assistance of
Halley, Newton may never have published his work on the motion of
orbiting bodies.
Which would have resulted in the Moon falling from the sky?
Quoted message said:
Debunking has been around since the beginning, and Newton's story
illustrates what is wrong with it. Many great ideas have been
suppressed because debunkers often use hostility rather than reason
and evidence.

Report
Mark
Archived post

3 June 2004, 21:11 UTC #10

"M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-June 3, 2004" <M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t [email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
Quoted message said:
"Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
MLM marketing offers people who don't possess the skills to start a
business, the chance to think they
have a business. The MLM marketing model is based on each new signed up
distributor contributing the sale of 2.5 units of the product per person
before they discover that they aren't consultants and they aren't
salespeople and must abandon their
plan.
Amazingly, Spammin' Dave gets one right. Sort of like the 1000 monkeys with
typewriters writing Shakespeare story.
Quoted message said:
The sad part is that there are some exceptionally good products that are
being presented by this marketing approach.
Disagree wrt the health aspects of MLM. So far, I have yet to see any health
related product which is sold MLM that is worth anything near the price.
Yeah, but Amway laundry soap is the bomb -- so says my wife.
Mark, MD

Report
M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-June 3, 2004
Archived post

3 June 2004, 21:20 UTC #11

"Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
"M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-June 3, 2004" <M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t

[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
"Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
MLM marketing offers people who don't possess the skills to start a
business, the chance to think they
have a business. The MLM marketing model is based on each new signed

up
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
distributor contributing the sale of 2.5 units of the product per

person
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
before they discover that they aren't consultants and they aren't
salespeople and must abandon their
plan.
Amazingly, Spammin' Dave gets one right. Sort of like the 1000 monkeys

with
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
typewriters writing Shakespeare story.
Quoted message said:
The sad part is that there are some exceptionally good products that

are
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
being presented by this marketing approach.
Disagree wrt the health aspects of MLM. So far, I have yet to see any

health
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
related product which is sold MLM that is worth anything near the price.
Yeah, but Amway laundry soap is the bomb -- so says my wife.
My late aunt an uncle swore by it..and distributed it. They both used their
health products, too. My uncle died of pancreatic cancer 23 days after
diagnosis, and my aunt had severe ASHD and died of cardiac myopathy due to
multiple infarcts over the years.

Report
Dave Wickware
Archived post

3 June 2004, 23:33 UTC #12

"M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-June 3, 2004" <M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t
[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

"Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
"M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-June 3, 2004" <M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t

[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
"Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> MLM marketing offers people who don't possess the skills to start a
> business, the chance to think they
> have a business. The MLM marketing model is based on each new signed

up
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
> distributor contributing the sale of 2.5 units of the product per

person
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
> before they discover that they aren't consultants and they aren't
> salespeople and must abandon their
> plan.
Amazingly, Spammin' Dave gets one right. Sort of like the 1000 monkeys

with
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
typewriters writing Shakespeare story.
> The sad part is that there are some exceptionally good products that

are
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
> being presented by this marketing approach.
Disagree wrt the health aspects of MLM. So far, I have yet to see any

health
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
related product which is sold MLM that is worth anything near the

price.
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Yeah, but Amway laundry soap is the bomb -- so says my wife.
My late aunt an uncle swore by it..and distributed it. They both used

their
Quoted message said:
health products, too. My uncle died of pancreatic cancer 23 days after
diagnosis, and my aunt had severe ASHD and died of cardiac myopathy due to
multiple infarcts over the years.
Awww, now we see where you gained your expertise on nutritional supplements
and MLM doctrine!

Report
David Wright
Archived post

4 June 2004, 03:57 UTC #13

In article <[email hidden]>,
DappleAndWasser said:
[email hidden] (David Wright) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...
Quoted message said:
Now, now. Debunkers can't debunk anything unless it's bunk to start
with.
This is completely wrong.
No, it's completely right. It's true by definition, for pity's sake.
You can attack, and even try to disprove, something that's true (it
happens in politics and in court all the time), but you can't debunk
something unless it's bunk.
Quoted message said:
Debunking has been around since the beginning, and Newton's story
illustrates what is wrong with it. Many great ideas have been
suppressed because debunkers often use hostility rather than reason
and evidence.
Name a few that are still being suppressed.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

Report
M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-June 3, 2004
Archived post

4 June 2004, 14:13 UTC #14

"Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

"M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-June 3, 2004" <M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t
[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

"Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
"M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-June 3, 2004" <M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t

[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...
Quoted message said:
> "Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:[email hidden]...
> > MLM marketing offers people who don't possess the skills to start

a
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
> > business, the chance to think they
> > have a business. The MLM marketing model is based on each new

signed
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
up
Quoted message said:
> > distributor contributing the sale of 2.5 units of the product per

person
Quoted message said:
> > before they discover that they aren't consultants and they aren't
> > salespeople and must abandon their
> > plan.
>
> Amazingly, Spammin' Dave gets one right. Sort of like the 1000

monkeys
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
with
Quoted message said:
> typewriters writing Shakespeare story.
>
> > The sad part is that there are some exceptionally good products

that
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
are
Quoted message said:
> > being presented by this marketing approach.
>
> Disagree wrt the health aspects of MLM. So far, I have yet to see

any
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
health
Quoted message said:
> related product which is sold MLM that is worth anything near the

price.
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Yeah, but Amway laundry soap is the bomb -- so says my wife.
My late aunt an uncle swore by it..and distributed it. They both used

their
Quoted message said:
health products, too. My uncle died of pancreatic cancer 23 days after
diagnosis, and my aunt had severe ASHD and died of cardiac myopathy due

to
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
multiple infarcts over the years.
Awww, now we see where you gained your expertise on nutritional

supplements
Quoted message said:
and MLM doctrine!
Those were just mere factoids in a compendium of information upon which I
base my knowledge.
However, I have such an open mind that if you post just a few real studies
that show supplementation of an otherwise healthy person is required, I
would agree to change my opinion.
You should note, however, that in my career, I have witnessed first hand
severe famines, droughts, and the pestilence of the aftermath of war. I have
seen people with the myriad of sicknesses that we westerners are blessed
with not having to deal with. I have seen people die from plague.
I know the difference between true 'bad health' and some minor problems that
a mere change in diet can affect.

Report
DappleAndWasser
Archived post

4 June 2004, 21:44 UTC #15

"M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-June 3, 2004" <M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t [email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
is completely wrong.
Quoted message said:

Read carefully. A debunker removes bunk. If there is no bunk to remove, then
the person cannot be a debunker.
Hook was a debunker. The people that slammed Wagner (sp?), the
continental drift theorist, for ***60*** years were debunkers. There
are critical thinkers, and then there are debunkers. Debunkers use
hostility, put-downs, personal attacks, etc.
Some day, someone just like me will be saying exactly the same thing
about some people who defend the Clovis barrier in North American
archeology. There may even be some people just like me saying exactly
the same thing about some people who try to debunk the hypothetical
aquatic origin of human beings. It is total bunk that debunkers need
bunk. That is equivalent to saying that UFOlogist need UFOs to
promote their ideas. I know that it may be difficult for you to
understand, but it is possible, just possible that a debunker may be
wrong. What a concept!!!!!!!!!

Report
DappleAndWasser
Archived post

5 June 2004, 18:02 UTC #16

I have reproduced a few in order to comment on them:
Quoted message said:
"The radio craze will die out in time."
Thomas Edison, 1922
Edison would sometimes say these kinds of things because he could not
get a monopoly strangle hold on something.
Quoted message said:
"Space travel is utter bilge."
Dr. Richard van der Reit Wooley, Astronomer Royal, UK space advisor to the
government, 1956. (Sputnik orbited the earth the following year.)
Space travel is still extremely limited. Shooting probes out is not
space travel. We have gone to the Moon, and we travel around the
Earth, but that is about it. Going to the Mars may very well happen,
but it will be a very difficult and expensive adventure.
Quoted message said:
"There is no hope for the fanciful idea of reaching the moon because of
insurmountable barriers to escaping the earth's gravity"
Dr. F. R. Moulton, University of Chicago astronomer, 1932
A lot of these scientific guys who said this sort of thing about space
travel were basing their beliefs on an assumption of a single stage
rocket.
Quoted message said:
"640K ought to be enough for anybody."
Bill Gates, 1981
Bill Gates is no great innovator or computer scientists. He is a
business man and a scum-bag.
Quoted message said:
"The world potential market for copying machines is 5000 at most."
IBM to the founders of Xerox, 1959
It is a good thing that big corporations make these kinds of mistakes,
or else we would all be working for IBM.
Quoted message said:
"Rock 'n' Roll is phony and false, and sung, written and played for the most
part by cretinous goons."
Frank Sinatra, 1957
For the most part, I agree with Frank. When people have near death
experiences, they ALWAYS abandon the listening to Rock 'n' Roll.
Quoted message said:
"The dangers are obvious. Stores of gasoline in the hands of people
interested primarily in profit would constitute a fire and explosive hazard
of the first rank. Horseless carriages propelled by gasoline might attain
speeds of 14 or even 20 miles per hour. The menace to our people of vehicles
of this type hurtling through our streets and along our roads and poisoning
the atmosphere would call for prompt legislative action even if the military
and economic implications were not so overwhelming... [T]he cost of
producing [gasoline] is far beyond the financial capacity of private
industry... In addition the development of this new power may displace the
use of horses, which would wreck our agriculture."
U. S. Congressional Record, 1875
This illustrates that there is often a lot of truth in the intuitions
of ancient people. Automobiles are one of the biggest killers in the
world. They pollute terribly.
Quoted message said:
"Rail travel at high speed is not possible because passengers, unable to
breathe, would die of asphyxia."
Dr. Dionysus Lardner (1793-1859), Professor of Natural Philosophy and
Astronomy at University College, London
I love this one.
Quoted message said:
"[Edison's Lamp] ... good enough for our transatlantic friends ... but
unworthy of the attention of practical or scientific men."
British Parliamentary Committee, 1878
These guys probably owned stock in the London Gaslight Company. I kid
you not.
Of course, all of this does not prove any particular theory. But it
should open the mind to possibilities, especially when even
scientists, even Wright concerning flight, can be so very wrong.

Report
David Wright
Archived post

5 June 2004, 20:38 UTC #17

In article <[email hidden]>,
DappleAndWasser said:
I have reproduced a few in order to comment on them:
Quoted message said:
"The radio craze will die out in time."
Thomas Edison, 1922
Edison would sometimes say these kinds of things because he could not
get a monopoly strangle hold on something.
Quoted message said:
"Space travel is utter bilge."
Dr. Richard van der Reit Wooley, Astronomer Royal, UK space advisor to the
government, 1956. (Sputnik orbited the earth the following year.)
Space travel is still extremely limited. Shooting probes out is not
space travel. We have gone to the Moon, and we travel around the
Earth, but that is about it. Going to the Mars may very well happen,
but it will be a very difficult and expensive adventure.
Yep. Arthur C. Clarke has written about these matters quite a bit.
In the sense of being "appropriate technology", doing something like
going to the moon simply doesn't fit. Even putting things into orbit
is monstrously expensive and only pays off for something like a
communications satellite (which can transfer vast amounts of data over
its lifetime), or for something that simply can't be done well any
other way, like weather or spy satellites, or something like the
Hubble telescope. Clarke's estimate, if I remember rightk, is that
space travel doesn't become economically plausible until you can put
stuff into orbit for a cost of around US$10 per pound. We're a good
many orders of magnitude short of that right now.
Quoted message said:
This illustrates that there is often a lot of truth in the intuitions
of ancient people. Automobiles are one of the biggest killers in the
world. They pollute terribly.
1875 is hardly "ancient." 1875 BC is ancient. And although cars do
kill a lot of people, in the US at least, they are far from the worst
hazard. Cancer kills ten times as many each year, and the constant
improvements in emissions mean cars are not the health hazard (in
terms of pollution) they would have been otherwise.
Quoted message said:
Of course, all of this does not prove any particular theory. But it
should open the mind to possibilities, especially when even
scientists, even Wright concerning flight, can be so very wrong.
The future, when it arrives, tends not to look the way we thought it
would. Take a look at science fiction from, say, the 1940s. Notice
how we aren't all commuting to work in our flying cars.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

Report
Michele
Archived post

6 June 2004, 00:02 UTC #18

[email hidden] (DappleAndWasser) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
Quoted message said:
I have reproduced a few in order to comment on them:
Quoted message said:
"The radio craze will die out in time."
Thomas Edison, 1922
Edison would sometimes say these kinds of things because he could not
get a monopoly strangle hold on something.
Quoted message said:
"Space travel is utter bilge."
Dr. Richard van der Reit Wooley, Astronomer Royal, UK space advisor to the
government, 1956. (Sputnik orbited the earth the following year.)
Space travel is still extremely limited. Shooting probes out is not
space travel. We have gone to the Moon, and we travel around the
Earth, but that is about it. Going to the Mars may very well happen,
but it will be a very difficult and expensive adventure.
Quoted message said:
"There is no hope for the fanciful idea of reaching the moon because of
insurmountable barriers to escaping the earth's gravity"
Dr. F. R. Moulton, University of Chicago astronomer, 1932
A lot of these scientific guys who said this sort of thing about space
travel were basing their beliefs on an assumption of a single stage
rocket.
Quoted message said:
"640K ought to be enough for anybody."
Bill Gates, 1981
Bill Gates is no great innovator or computer scientists. He is a
business man and a scum-bag.
Quoted message said:
"The world potential market for copying machines is 5000 at most."
IBM to the founders of Xerox, 1959
It is a good thing that big corporations make these kinds of mistakes,
or else we would all be working for IBM.
Quoted message said:
"Rock 'n' Roll is phony and false, and sung, written and played for the most
part by cretinous goons."
Frank Sinatra, 1957
For the most part, I agree with Frank. When people have near death
experiences, they ALWAYS abandon the listening to Rock 'n' Roll.
Quoted message said:
"The dangers are obvious. Stores of gasoline in the hands of people
interested primarily in profit would constitute a fire and explosive hazard
of the first rank. Horseless carriages propelled by gasoline might attain
speeds of 14 or even 20 miles per hour. The menace to our people of vehicles
of this type hurtling through our streets and along our roads and poisoning
the atmosphere would call for prompt legislative action even if the military
and economic implications were not so overwhelming... [T]he cost of
producing [gasoline] is far beyond the financial capacity of private
industry... In addition the development of this new power may displace the
use of horses, which would wreck our agriculture."
U. S. Congressional Record, 1875
This illustrates that there is often a lot of truth in the intuitions
of ancient people. Automobiles are one of the biggest killers in the
world. They pollute terribly.
Quoted message said:
"Rail travel at high speed is not possible because passengers, unable to
breathe, would die of asphyxia."
Dr. Dionysus Lardner (1793-1859), Professor of Natural Philosophy and
Astronomy at University College, London
I love this one.
Quoted message said:
"[Edison's Lamp] ... good enough for our transatlantic friends ... but
unworthy of the attention of practical or scientific men."
British Parliamentary Committee, 1878
These guys probably owned stock in the London Gaslight Company. I kid
you not.
Of course, all of this does not prove any particular theory. But it
should open the mind to possibilities, especially when even
scientists, even Wright concerning flight, can be so very wrong.
And science marched on. It still continues to do so.

Report

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