MiniMed Paradigm 512 versus D-Tron Plus (Diesetronic)

It isn't a big deal to fill a syringe from a bottle of insulin. It takes about 15 - 20 seconds to
grab the bottle, shove the needle in and get the bubbles out. 176 units is enough if you want to go
3 full days and use less than 176/3 units per day! <g> My 508 can hold 300 units!! If you need
100U/day, there you go.

Small is nice, and the quality of programming is paramount. I would not opt for a pump that had
limited, or "kludgy" programming screens. You want a pump that is user friendly so that setting it
because second nature. I have a 508 and my wife has a Paradigm. Personally, I like the 508 better in
most respects; the Paradigm has a couple of nice features, but not enough to sway me to get one.

dave

Martin said:

Hi,

can anyone compare Paradigm and D-Tron pumps, i.e. which is the pump of your choice???

I am going through psychological dilema: either to have a small pump with great display and
programing, or to have a big one with ugly screen (to me) but with the ability to use prefilled
cartridges...

Are the prefilled cartridges such a big advantage? Is the 176 units reservoir enough?

Thanks Igor

Disetronic is no longer allowed to sell pumps in the US. Didnt comply with FDA. My daughter was a
Dtron plus user and switched after the FDA fiasco. She is now using a MM 512. She likes it very
much. Hasnt complained about having to fill the cartridge. Less of a problem then we thought. Go for
the MM, cant buy a Dtron in the US.

(Martin) said:

Hi,

can anyone compare Paradigm and D-Tron pumps, i.e. which is the pump of your choice???

I am going through psychological dilema: either to have a small pump with great display and
programing, or to have a big one with ugly screen (to me) but with the ability to use prefilled
cartridges...

Are the prefilled cartridges such a big advantage? Is the 176 units reservoir enough?

Thanks

Given the long list of issues that the FDA has run into with Disetronic, I'd be very reluctant to go
anywhere near a D-Tron product. The FDA has officially classed D-Tron pumps as 'Adulterated Medical
Devices', and are subject to siezure on importantion. FDA 510K approvals have all been suspended.

The letter from the FDA to Disetronic is pretty ugly, and if you read what Disetronic has to say on
their web site, they aren't actively denying any of it.

Quoted message said:

Igor

First, have you gone to insulin-pumpers.org and checked out the link to all the pumps there?
Although I have, and prefer the MiniMed displays, you might find something you like. The Dana
Diabecare and the Nipro Amigo both look cool...

Also to directly answer your question. Even if the Disetronic were available, I don't think it would
have the "Bolus Wizard" feature that the 512 does. Although I was skeptical about this, after
reading Dr. Biggs' responses to my posts in question of this feature, I am convinced that it could
be helpful. If nothing else, it could save me having to do all the constant math. 🙂

Although I was partial to the MiniMed 508, which I have been using for years, when I was forced
recently to use the 511 (the predecessor similar to the 512), I found several things to like about
it. One of them was the easy way the reservoirs are filled. Although not perfect (in mine, the snap-
lock keeps coming undone), it allows them to be filled and handled easily without a syringe
attachment, and without as many bubbles (nearly none) as with the syringe and bottle method. In
fact, FWIW, one of the reasons I would not choose one of the other pumps, is that they symbolize
what MiniMed calls the "reservoir" with a syringe, a big syringe, on the display. Not the most
tasteful thing to look at. I mean I don't have any problem with syringes, but it's not really a
syringe, it's a reservoir (or a cartridge). A syringe is used for injection. MiniMed's 508 just uses
the Luer lock needle to attach to the reservoir to fill it.

I'm not a big MiniMed fan, but they, I think, have the best products on the market. According to my
old MiniMed sales rep, they are the most popular as well (if that matters).

--
Antonio
Age 37, Type 1 for 10 years
On Insulin Pump
"Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

can anyone compare Paradigm and D-Tron pumps, i.e. which is the pump
of your choice???

I am going through psychological dilema: either to have a small pump
with great display and programing, or to have a big one with ugly
screen (to me) but with the ability to use prefilled cartridges...

Are the prefilled cartridges such a big advantage? Is the 176 units
reservoir enough?

Thanks
Igor

(Martin) said:

Hi,

can anyone compare Paradigm and D-Tron pumps, i.e. which is the pump of your choice???

I am going through psychological dilema: either to have a small pump with great display and
programing, or to have a big one with ugly screen (to me) but with the ability to use prefilled
cartridges...

Are the prefilled cartridges such a big advantage? Is the 176 units reservoir enough? concatenated
Thanks Igor

----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
newsfeed.comnewsfeed.comOpen ↗ The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-
Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

if it took time to get them out of here

how did they ever get approval in the first place?

MiniMed you watching????

case

the case, minus a few cans!

Oh yes forget to mention the bolus wizard on the MM. But the very best feature of the 512 is that it
makes adjustment for insulin that is still active. Very very helpful. Just a better pump having
tried both. Igor, believe me, if Dtron was a better product would tell you to buy it. But we have
use both. Really no comparison, regardless of the FDA fiasco. Btw, had to send the Dtron back twice
because of major malfunctions-such as insulin uncontrolably squirting out.

I would agree with Dave completely on the 508...besides I take anywhere from 50-60 units a day so
the 176 unit reservoir leaves no room for error especially if you need a few supplemental boluses or
you are ill. While you can change the infusion set every two days instead of the standard 3 days
that can get expensive with the Paradigm.

--
Steve Type 1 DM since 1967 MiniMed 508 since early 2002 Toronto, ON Canada

"Bay Area Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It isn't a big deal to fill a syringe from a bottle of insulin. It takes about 15 - 20 seconds to
grab the bottle, shove the needle in and get the bubbles out. 176 units is enough if you want to
go 3 full days and use less than 176/3 units per day! <g> My 508 can hold 300 units!! If you need
100U/day, there you go.

Small is nice, and the quality of programming is paramount. I would not opt for a pump that had
limited, or "kludgy" programming screens. You want a pump that is user friendly so that setting
it because second nature. I have a 508 and my wife has a Paradigm. Personally, I like the 508
better in most respects; the Paradigm has a couple of nice features, but not enough to sway me to
get one.

dave

Martin said:

Hi,

can anyone compare Paradigm and D-Tron pumps, i.e. which is the pump of your choice???

I am going through psychological dilema: either to have a small pump with great display and
programing, or to have a big one with ugly screen (to me) but with the ability to use prefilled
cartridges...

Are the prefilled cartridges such a big advantage? Is the 176 units reservoir enough?

Thanks Igor

) that makes his choice a whole lot easier!

dave

Ginplayr said:

Disetronic is no longer allowed to sell pumps in the US. Didnt comply with FDA. My daughter was a
Dtron plus user and switched after the FDA fiasco. She is now using a MM 512. She likes it very
much. Hasnt complained about having to fill the cartridge. Less of a problem then we thought. Go
for the MM, cant buy a Dtron in the US.

do you think MiniMed has hired a few more lawyers lately, now that the Paradigm not being watertight
is public knowledge? <g> Every time I think of their response, it just frosts my butt.

dave

IF YOU CAN'T SWIM DON'T JUMP IN said:

if it took time to get them out of here

how did they ever get approval in the first place?

MiniMed you watching????

case

the case, minus a few cans!

I didn't see instructions in the 512 manual to change the length of time that Humalog is active.
Does MiniMed assume everyone has the same "decay time", or did I miss a page?

dave

Ginplayr said:

Oh yes forget to mention the bolus wizard on the MM. But the very best feature of the 512 is that
it makes adjustment for insulin that is still active. Very very helpful. Just a better pump having
tried both. Igor, believe me, if Dtron was a better product would tell you to buy it. But we have
use both. Really no comparison, regardless of the FDA fiasco. Btw, had to send the Dtron back
twice because of major malfunctions-such as insulin uncontrolably squirting out.

Bay Area Dave <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

🙂 that makes his choice a whole lot easier!

dave

Ginplayr said:

Disetronic is no longer allowed to sell pumps in the US. Didnt comply with FDA. My daughter was
a Dtron plus user and switched after the FDA fiasco. She is now using a MM 512. She likes it
very much. Hasnt complained about having to fill the cartridge. Less of a problem then we
thought. Go for the MM, cant buy a Dtron in the US.

Actully I'm not from US but from Czech Republic (a relatively small country in the center of Europe
[a relatively unimportant continent siting on the other side compared to America]). The problem with
being a diabetic in Czech Republic is that with total population near 10 million people you do not
have as important market as the US (and also the army tends to be a lot smaller and less dangerous).
As result only three companies and their pumps are more or less present in Czech republic:
1. Minimed - ok, average support
2. Disetronic - 2 pumps, great support
3. Animas - small Co. and I don't like their system menus and small fonts...

The fact is that Disetronic has the highest number of users in our country and the far best
support...

...just to explain, why Disetronic is still in the game...

Igor

Dave,

I read the manual and got that too. I did not see anyway to change the time activity profile of the
insulin. (FWIW, my doctor says that Novolog has a longer "tail" than Humalog.)

MiniMed has their time activity profile curve on their Website. Here is the URL:
minimed.compf ipt paradigm bolus.shtmlOpen ↗

--
Antonio
Age 37, Type 1 for 10 years
On Insulin Pump
"Bay Area Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I didn't see instructions in the 512 manual to change the length of time
that Humalog is active. Does MiniMed assume everyone has the same
"decay time", or did I miss a page?

dave

Ginplayr said:

Oh yes forget to mention the bolus wizard on the MM. But the very best

feature

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of the 512 is that it makes adjustment for insulin that is still active.

Very

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

very helpful. Just a better pump having tried both. Igor, believe me, if

Dtron

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

was a better product would tell you to buy it. But we have use both.

Really no

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

comparison, regardless of the FDA fiasco. Btw, had to send the Dtron

back

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

twice because of major malfunctions-such as insulin uncontrolably

squirting

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

out.

Dave,

There is a setup parameter in the 512 where you choose "regular" or "analog" insulin.

This factors in a longer decay time for regular vs analog.

The difference between Novolog and Humalog are negligible. You are correct that the calculation used
in the pump is the same for everybody.

While it might be easy to criticize the algorithm used as not being more adaptable, I would point
out that this is the only pump that has this feature at all. I would not be surprised if future
versions do allow for some adjustment of insulin duration.

Particularly when Aventis' fast acting analog becomes available.

Cheers, William C Biggs, MD

"Bay Area Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I didn't see instructions in the 512 manual to change the length of time that Humalog is active.
Does MiniMed assume everyone has the same "decay time", or did I miss a page?

dave

Ginplayr said:

Oh yes forget to mention the bolus wizard on the MM. But the very best

feature

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of the 512 is that it makes adjustment for insulin that is still active.

Very

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

very helpful. Just a better pump having tried both. Igor, believe me, if

Dtron

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

was a better product would tell you to buy it. But we have use both.

Really no

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

comparison, regardless of the FDA fiasco. Btw, had to send the Dtron

back

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

twice because of major malfunctions-such as insulin uncontrolably

squirting

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

out.

Igor, I see your point! 🙂 I assumed you were in the States. Not being familiar with the newer
Disetronics, I should defer to someone with knowledge of both pumps. All I can say is I looked into
the Disetronic pump in 1996 when I chose the MiniMed 506. At that time, I preferred the function and
programming of the MiniMed. I presume things have changed since then...there are plenty of folks who
prefer the 508 to the Paradigm, me being ONE of them. Newer isn't always better.

dave

Martin said:

Bay Area Dave <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

🙂 that makes his choice a whole lot easier!

dave

Ginplayr said:

Disetronic is no longer allowed to sell pumps in the US. Didnt comply with FDA. My daughter was a
Dtron plus user and switched after the FDA fiasco. She is now using a MM 512. She likes it very
much. Hasnt complained about having to fill the cartridge. Less of a problem then we thought. Go
for the MM, cant buy a Dtron in the US.

Actully I'm not from US but from Czech Republic (a relatively small country in the center of
Europe [a relatively unimportant continent siting on the other side compared to America]). The
problem with being a diabetic in Czech Republic is that with total population near 10 million
people you do not have as important market as the US (and also the army tends to be a lot smaller
and less dangerous). As result only three companies and their pumps are more or less present in
Czech republic:
1. Minimed - ok, average support
2. Disetronic - 2 pumps, great support
3. Animas - small Co. and I don't like their system menus and small fonts...

The fact is that Disetronic has the highest number of users in our country and the far best
support...

...just to explain, why Disetronic is still in the game...

Igor

Here is the graph of the time activity profile of Humalog from Lilly.

lillydiabetes.comTimeActivityProfiles.cfmOpen ↗

MiniMed and Lilly appear to have differing opinions about how long the insulin remains working.
However, I think I would trust Lilly's information more than MiniMed, since they are the insulin
manufacturer. I guess it's just another lame MiniMed thing.

--
Antonio
Age 37, Type 1 for 10 years
On Insulin Pump
"Juan Antonio" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dave,

I read the manual and got that too. I did not see anyway to change the

time

Quoted message said:

activity profile of the insulin. (FWIW, my doctor says that Novolog has a
longer "tail" than Humalog.)

MiniMed has their time activity profile curve on their Website. Here is

the

Quoted message said:

URL: minimed.compf ipt paradigm bolus.shtmlOpen ↗

--
Antonio
Age 37, Type 1 for 10 years
On Insulin Pump
"Bay Area Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I didn't see instructions in the 512 manual to change the length of time
that Humalog is active. Does MiniMed assume everyone has the same
"decay time", or did I miss a page?

dave

Ginplayr said:

Oh yes forget to mention the bolus wizard on the MM. But the very best

feature

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of the 512 is that it makes adjustment for insulin that is still

active.

Quoted message said:

Very

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

very helpful. Just a better pump having tried both. Igor, believe me,

if

Quoted message said:

Dtron

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

was a better product would tell you to buy it. But we have use both.

Really no

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

comparison, regardless of the FDA fiasco. Btw, had to send the Dtron

back

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

twice because of major malfunctions-such as insulin uncontrolably

squirting

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

out.

thanks. I think that graph more closely resembles the activity of Humalog in me as opposed to what
Lily had advertised when it first came out. For grins I'm gonna jump to the Lily site. Aha! They
show Humalog with a shorter duration than MiniMed. MiniMed doesn't show a 2 hour peak either. That's
STRANGE. very strange. There is a disconnect between Lily and MiniMed.

dave

Juan Antonio said:

Dave,

I read the manual and got that too. I did not see anyway to change the time activity profile of
the insulin. (FWIW, my doctor says that Novolog has a longer "tail" than Humalog.)

MiniMed has their time activity profile curve on their Website. Here is the URL:
minimed.compf ipt paradigm bolus.shtmlOpen ↗

--
Antonio Age 37, Type 1 for 10 years On Insulin Pump "Bay Area Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I didn't see instructions in the 512 manual to change the length of time that Humalog is active.
Does MiniMed assume everyone has the same "decay time", or did I miss a page?

dave

Ginplayr said:

Oh yes forget to mention the bolus wizard on the MM. But the very best

feature

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of the 512 is that it makes adjustment for insulin that is still active.

Very

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

very helpful. Just a better pump having tried both. Igor, believe me, if

Dtron

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

was a better product would tell you to buy it. But we have use both.

Really no

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

comparison, regardless of the FDA fiasco. Btw, had to send the Dtron

back

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

twice because of major malfunctions-such as insulin uncontrolably

squirting

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

out.

Martin,

First, welcome to the group.

Second, I'd like to know how your system of diabetes care works in the Czech Republic. I've been
very interested in your country since I was 12 years old, listened to Radio Prague on shortwave, and
subseqently watched on TV while the Soviets invaded in 1968.

I made it a point to get a hotel in Wencelas Square when I visited Prague a few years ago. What a
beautiful city! The citizens there are rightfully proud of the city and its culture. I am looking
forward to going back.

Many of the programming improvements in the Paradigm reflect how diabetes in managed in the US. We
now are more likely to have pumpers count carbohydrates, whereas 10 years ago most pumpers were
using fixed exchange diets. We also are more systematic about calculating the correction doses for
hyperglycemia.

If you don't count carbs, or if you can do the calculations easily in your head, then the Disetronic
may be a preferable pump for your location. I think the degree of success you have with a pump is
heavily influenced by the amount of support you have from your diabetes team....the doctor, the
teaching nurses, and the dietitian. If those professionals are much more familiar with the
Disetronic, you may have a better chance of success.

I think both companies are excellent companies. I could see that you probably would have better
customer service in Czech Republic from Disetronic vs MiniMed. Do they have a pump representative
nearby from each company ? Perhaps they can give you the names of some pump users locally; then you
can call them and ask how satisfied they were with the pump & the support they had from their
doctors and the pump company.

Good Luck, William C Biggs, MD

"Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bay Area Dave <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

🙂 that makes his choice a whole lot easier!

dave

Ginplayr said:

Disetronic is no longer allowed to sell pumps in the US. Didnt comply

with FDA.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My daughter was a Dtron plus user and switched after the FDA fiasco.

She is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

now using a MM 512. She likes it very much. Hasnt complained about

having to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

fill the cartridge. Less of a problem then we thought. Go for the MM,

cant buy

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a Dtron in the US.

Actully I'm not from US but from Czech Republic (a relatively small country in the center of
Europe [a relatively unimportant continent siting on the other side compared to America]). The
problem with being a diabetic in Czech Republic is that with total population near 10 million
people you do not have as important market as the US (and also the army tends to be a lot smaller
and less dangerous). As result only three companies and their pumps are more or less present in
Czech republic:
1. Minimed - ok, average support
2. Disetronic - 2 pumps, great support
3. Animas - small Co. and I don't like their system menus and small fonts...

The fact is that Disetronic has the highest number of users in our country and the far best
support...

...just to explain, why Disetronic is still in the game...

Igor

Thanks. Will that new insulin be even faster than Humalog with a quicker peak and shorter
duration also?

dave

William C Biggs said:

Dave,

There is a setup parameter in the 512 where you choose "regular" or "analog" insulin.

This factors in a longer decay time for regular vs analog.

The difference between Novolog and Humalog are negligible. You are correct that the calculation
used in the pump is the same for everybody.

While it might be easy to criticize the algorithm used as not being more adaptable, I would point
out that this is the only pump that has this feature at all. I would not be surprised if future
versions do allow for some adjustment of insulin duration.

Particularly when Aventis' fast acting analog becomes available.

Cheers, William C Biggs, MD

"Bay Area Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I didn't see instructions in the 512 manual to change the length of time that Humalog is active.
Does MiniMed assume everyone has the same "decay time", or did I miss a page?

dave

Ginplayr said:

Oh yes forget to mention the bolus wizard on the MM. But the very best

feature

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of the 512 is that it makes adjustment for insulin that is still active.

Very

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

very helpful. Just a better pump having tried both. Igor, believe me, if

Dtron

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

was a better product would tell you to buy it. But we have use both.

Really no

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

comparison, regardless of the FDA fiasco. Btw, had to send the Dtron

back

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

twice because of major malfunctions-such as insulin uncontrolably

squirting

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

out.