Mini V brakes

Alan Moffatt said:

I'd like to convert at least the front brake of a tourer to V brakes.

Been there, done that.

Quoted message said:

I'm told that the 'mini' V brakes (Tektro, Dia Compe) will work with
ordinary [Ergopower] levers. Anyone know if this is true?

Yes. You don't get much clearance, but they do work.

Quoted message said:

Also, are the arms long enough to fit over a 32c tyre plus mudguard?

No. You either have to run the mudguards over the brakes, or cut the
mudguards short of the brakes.

If its just more braking power you are after, adjusting the geometry of
the straddle wire to be as flat as possible can give you that. If that
leads to flex in the canti bosses (which you would have got with V
brakes too) adding a brake booster plate will go some way to sorting
that out. Good brake pads, like kool stop mountains, will help a lot too.

JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA

Jim Price said:

Alan Moffatt wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm told that the 'mini' V brakes (Tektro, Dia Compe) will work with
ordinary [Ergopower] levers. Anyone know if this is true?

Yes. You don't get much clearance, but they do work.

I see Campag have introduced V-type brakes for 2006 - wonder if they
work with Ergo levers, or are they solely intended for the flat-bar
variant of the relevant groupsets (Mirage and - I think - Veloce)?

David Belcher

Thanks, Jim. I suspected the mudguards would be the problem.

The reason for wanting to change is that the bike in question has very
little space between brake lever and cable hanger, and there's a Tektro top
bar lever in there as well. I'm finding it next to impossible to get a good
curve to the cable. So I thought that Vs would give me more room to work in.

"Jim Price" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Alan Moffatt said:

I'd like to convert at least the front brake of a tourer to V brakes.

Been there, done that.

Quoted message said:

I'm told that the 'mini' V brakes (Tektro, Dia Compe) will work with
ordinary [Ergopower] levers. Anyone know if this is true?

Yes. You don't get much clearance, but they do work.

Quoted message said:

Also, are the arms long enough to fit over a 32c tyre plus mudguard?

No. You either have to run the mudguards over the brakes, or cut the
mudguards short of the brakes.

If its just more braking power you are after, adjusting the geometry of
the straddle wire to be as flat as possible can give you that. If that
leads to flex in the canti bosses (which you would have got with V brakes
too) adding a brake booster plate will go some way to sorting that out.
Good brake pads, like kool stop mountains, will help a lot too.

JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA

"Alan Moffatt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi all

I'd like to convert at least the front brake of a tourer to V brakes.

I'm told that the 'mini' V brakes (Tektro, Dia Compe) will work with
ordinary [Ergopower] levers. Anyone know if this is true?

Also, are the arms long enough to fit over a 32c tyre plus mudguard?

No idea to either question, but you can get them cheap from on-one (£20),
who put them on the Pompino (similar to the Kaffenbak).

http://www.on-one.co.uk/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=43&MMN_position=46:46

David E. Belcher said:

I see Campag have introduced V-type brakes for 2006 - wonder if they
work with Ergo levers, or are they solely intended for the flat-bar
variant of the relevant groupsets (Mirage and - I think - Veloce)?

There are some clues which suggest they will, e.g. here is a picture of
the Campag flat bar controls operating a dual pivot front brake. Its at
a bike show, so there's no guarantee its a working combination. That
aside, there is also the possibility they have a long cable travel
version of a dual pivot brake coming out as well, which would be an
alternative explanation, but I have heard nothing about that. IMHO the
most likely is that they will work with Ergo levers, as I already have a
bike with Mirage Ergos and tektro mini-V's. A friend of mine has a bike
with Ergos and full sized V's, and if they start scraping he just lets
some cable out at the levers.

I like the look of the zero gravity-like road callipers too. I just hope
they make it to an affordable groupset soon.

JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA

Alan Moffatt said:

Thanks, Jim. I suspected the mudguards would be the problem.

The reason for wanting to change is that the bike in question has very
little space between brake lever and cable hanger, and there's a Tektro top
bar lever in there as well. I'm finding it next to impossible to get a good
curve to the cable. So I thought that Vs would give me more room to work in.

There is another option which solves this problem - its a device
intended to work with canti brakes where there isn't a way of attaching
a cable hanger. It attaches where the upper mudguard mount is on the
fork, so the straddle cable should clear the mudguard and the brake
cable can be routed all the way to where the straddle cable is. They
were selling them off cheap in Halfords some time ago, and I was buying
them to get hold of the washers (they were that cheap). Lemme have a
look in the parts bin and see if I can get some more details...

JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA

Jim Price said:

Lemme have a look in the parts bin and see if I can get some more details...

Right, that was easier than I thought it might be. Its called a Tektro
Leverage Enhancement Hanger part number N1269A
Its on this page:
http://www.tektro.com/02products/15accessories.php
The one shown is being used on the rear brake.

JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA

"Alan Moffatt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi all

I'd like to convert at least the front brake of a tourer to V brakes.

I'm told that the 'mini' V brakes (Tektro, Dia Compe) will work with
ordinary [Ergopower] levers. Anyone know if this is true?

Also, are the arms long enough to fit over a 32c tyre plus mudguard?

Many thanks

Alan

I've used standard Deore V-Brakes on my tourer with 32c's and SKS mudguards.
These work fine with Dia-Compe 287V levers which come with noodles with
adjusters.

Ken.

Jim Price said:

David E. Belcher said:

I see Campag have introduced V-type brakes for 2006 - wonder if they
work with Ergo levers, or are they solely intended for the flat-bar
variant of the relevant groupsets (Mirage and - I think - Veloce)?

I think some gizmo ("Travel Agent"?) would be needed to pull Vs with
Ergos.

Quoted message said:

There are some clues which suggest they will, e.g. here is a picture
of the Campag flat bar controls operating a dual pivot front brake.

Campag have two versions of Flat Bar levers: one for calipers, one for Vs.

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

Jim Price said:

David E. Belcher said:

I see Campag have introduced V-type brakes for 2006 - wonder if they
work with Ergo levers, or are they solely intended for the flat-bar
variant of the relevant groupsets (Mirage and - I think - Veloce)?

I think some gizmo ("Travel Agent"?) would be needed to pull Vs with
Ergos.

As I think I've just said recently in another [sub]thread, a friend of
mine uses V's with Ergos and no extra gizmos - it works because he can
release the levers if clearance becomes a problem. In practice, he rides
with the levers released most of the time, but it works for him. I use
STIs with Vs on my touring bike and build wheels which don't go out of
true to compensate for the lack of clearance.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There are some clues which suggest they will, e.g. here is a picture
of the Campag flat bar controls operating a dual pivot front brake.

Campag have two versions of Flat Bar levers: one for calipers, one for Vs.

That I didn't know - the greatest kudos is going to go to whoever comes
up with Ergo/STI levers which can operate any brakes (and gears for that
matter, although with some hardware swapping, the gear thing can be done
already with Modolo levers). I've been planning a mod to STIs to achieve
this...

JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA

Jim Price said:

As I think I've just said recently in another [sub]thread, a friend of
mine uses V's with Ergos and no extra gizmos - it works because he can
release the levers if clearance becomes a problem. In practice, he
rides with the levers released most of the time, but it works for
him. I use
STIs with Vs on my touring bike and build wheels which don't go out of
true to compensate for the lack of clearance.

I wouldn't like that, personally. With Ergos + calipers and true wheels,
I already have the brake blocks set as close to the rims as possible
without rubbing to have the lever-feel I like.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Campag have two versions of Flat Bar levers: one for calipers, one
for Vs.

That I didn't know - the greatest kudos is going to go to whoever
comes
up with Ergo/STI levers which can operate any brakes (and gears for
that matter, although with some hardware swapping, the gear thing can
be done already with Modolo levers). I've been planning a mod to STIs
to achieve this...

It's interesting that Campag didn't copy Shimano's idea of switchable
modes for their FBs. I don't know how practical it would be on road STIs
or Ergos, though. Much extra bulk or junk wouldn't be nice. But easily
adaptable (or even fine-tunable!) indexing would be nice indeed.
Meantime, we have to carry on doing horrible things with cassettes and
mechs.

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

Jim Price said:

a friend of
mine uses V's with Ergos and no extra gizmos

I wouldn't like that, personally. With Ergos + calipers and true wheels,
I already have the brake blocks set as close to the rims as possible
without rubbing to have the lever-feel I like.

I've tried his bike (well, I built it!) and the feel of the brakes is
actually really good, as long as you like powerful brakes with a very
light action - which is what was requested after he'd tried another
slightly mad bike I built with flat bar canti levers and V brakes. Don't
knock it 'till you've tried it!

Quoted message said:

It's interesting that Campag didn't copy Shimano's idea of switchable
modes for their FBs. I don't know how practical it would be on road STIs
or Ergos, though.

My cunning plan will only work for STIs which have a slot for the brake
cable holder - the slot could be "shimmed" to give more cable travel,
especially in the early part of the pad movement, which is where the
clearance is needed.

Quoted message said:

Much extra bulk or junk wouldn't be nice. But easily
adaptable (or even fine-tunable!) indexing would be nice indeed.

Well, I suppose the Campag stuff almost has it, in that you could
machine a new ratchet wheel to achieve that. That's not exactly easy
though, and the Shimano stuff needs to be at least maintainable before
I'm prepared to start playing with it proper.

Quoted message said:

Meantime, we have to carry on doing horrible things with cassettes and
mechs.

As horrible as the names people come up with, like shimagnolo.

JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA

"Jim Price" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Pete Biggs said:

Jim Price said:

David E. Belcher wrote:
> I see Campag have introduced V-type brakes for 2006 - wonder if they
> work with Ergo levers, or are they solely intended for the flat-bar
> variant of the relevant groupsets (Mirage and - I think - Veloce)?

I think some gizmo ("Travel Agent"?) would be needed to pull Vs with
Ergos.

As I think I've just said recently in another [sub]thread, a friend of
mine uses V's with Ergos and no extra gizmos - it works because he can
release the levers if clearance becomes a problem. In practice, he rides
with the levers released most of the time, but it works for him. I use
STIs with Vs on my touring bike and build wheels which don't go out of
true to compensate for the lack of clearance.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There are some clues which suggest they will, e.g. here is a picture
of the Campag flat bar controls operating a dual pivot front brake.

Campag have two versions of Flat Bar levers: one for calipers, one for
Vs.

That I didn't know - the greatest kudos is going to go to whoever comes up
with Ergo/STI levers which can operate any brakes (and gears for that
matter, although with some hardware swapping, the gear thing can be done
already with Modolo levers). I've been planning a mod to STIs to achieve
this...

The brakes bit wouldn't be hard. Shimano have a vaguely similar mechanism to
what would be needed in their expensive V brake levers (some XTs or XTRs I
had). The cable pulling bit is attached to a bearing, and this bearing can
move in a rounded oblong shaped slot on the lever. The effect of this, if
you remove the shims to let it move about, is that the harder you pull the
brakes, the less mechanical advantage you get. Which is nice, as it makes
Vees nearly disk brake controllable. Add the ability to put shims at either
end, and you'd be able to alter cable pull to match any brake.

In article <[email hidden]>, Jim Price

() said:

Pete Biggs said:

Jim Price said:

a friend of
mine uses V's with Ergos and no extra gizmos

I wouldn't like that, personally. With Ergos + calipers and true wheels,
I already have the brake blocks set as close to the rims as possible
without rubbing to have the lever-feel I like.

I've tried his bike (well, I built it!) and the feel of the brakes is
actually really good, as long as you like powerful brakes with a very
light action - which is what was requested after he'd tried another
slightly mad bike I built with flat bar canti levers and V brakes. Don't
knock it 'till you've tried it!

Quoted message said:

It's interesting that Campag didn't copy Shimano's idea of switchable
modes for their FBs. I don't know how practical it would be on road STIs
or Ergos, though.

My cunning plan will only work for STIs which have a slot for the brake
cable holder - the slot could be "shimmed" to give more cable travel,
especially in the early part of the pad movement, which is where the
clearance is needed.

Quoted message said:

Much extra bulk or junk wouldn't be nice. But easily
adaptable (or even fine-tunable!) indexing would be nice indeed.

Well, I suppose the Campag stuff almost has it, in that you could
machine a new ratchet wheel to achieve that. That's not exactly easy
though, and the Shimano stuff needs to be at least maintainable before
I'm prepared to start playing with it proper.

Quoted message said:

Meantime, we have to carry on doing horrible things with cassettes and
mechs.

As horrible as the names people come up with, like shimagnolo.

I should like to nominate "brifters" as one of the more Hateful
Neologisms of recent memory...

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
Putting just the right amount of gin in your goldfish bowl makes the
fishies' eyes bulge and causes them to swim in a very amusing manner.

Dave Larrington said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Jim Price

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As horrible as the names people come up with, like shimagnolo.

I should like to nominate "brifters" as one of the more Hateful
Neologisms of recent memory...

SPanDals too.

<Rides off into the distance>

Tim

Tim Hall said:

Dave Larrington said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Jim Price

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As horrible as the names people come up with, like shimagnolo.

I should like to nominate "brifters" as one of the more Hateful
Neologisms of recent memory...

SPanDals too.

Thats just bike specific ones - on a more generic road traffic note, my
least favourite has to be "yute", or SUV.

JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA

Jim Price said:

Pete Biggs said:

Campag have two versions of Flat Bar levers: one for calipers, one for Vs.

That I didn't know

Neither did I. Puzzle solved - thanks Pete!

David Belcher