Millar (in French)

"According to l'equipe the Cofidis affair is making another
come-back with the probably prosecution of David Millar. The
Scottish rider admited to having taken EPO while being
questionned by police. Empty bottles were found by police
officers at his house. Cofidis immediately announced their
intention to summon the rider to give an explaination"

A rider that is being prosecuted for doping or whom police
inquiries are being made can't start the TDF.

David Off said:

"According to l'equipe the Cofidis affair is making
another come-back with the probably prosecution of David
Millar. The Scottish rider admited to having taken EPO
while being questionned by police. Empty bottles were
found by police officers at his house. Cofidis immediately
announced their intention to summon the rider to give an
explaination"

A rider that is being prosecuted for doping or whom police
inquiries are being made can't start the TDF.

That seems a much stronger version than is warranted by the
original French. The phrase "David Millar ..... aurait avoué
avoir consommé de l'EPO " is a rather odd "Millar would have
admitted using EPO" rather than "Millar admitted using EPO"
I'm not quite sure how we should interpret the conditional
perfect tense used here. Its usually used to indicate what
would have happened if something else had occurred which
didn't - e.g. If you had given me £10k, I would have bought
that Litespeed - and here it doesn't say what the conditions
or implied conditions were under which he would have
admitted using EPO. The same applies to the sentence about
finding EPO ampoules. It says the police would have found
EPO ampoules in his home.

Curious. Time will tell

Tony

Tony Raven said:

David Off said:

"According to l'equipe the Cofidis affair is making
another come-back with the probably prosecution of David
Millar. The Scottish rider admited to having taken EPO
while being questionned by police. Empty bottles were
found by police officers at his house. Cofidis
immediately announced their intention to summon the rider
to give an explaination"

A rider that is being prosecuted for doping or whom
police inquiries are being made can't start the TDF.

That seems a much stronger version than is warranted by
the original French. The phrase "David Millar ..... aurait
avoué avoir consommé de l'EPO " is a rather odd "Millar
would have admitted using EPO" rather than "Millar
admitted using EPO" I'm not quite sure how we should
interpret the conditional perfect tense used here. Its
usually used to indicate what would have happened if
something else had occurred which didn't - e.g. If you had
given me £10k, I would have bought that Litespeed - and
here it doesn't say what the conditions or implied
conditions were under which he would have admitted using
EPO. The same applies to the sentence about finding EPO
ampoules. It says the police would have found EPO ampoules
in his home.

Curious. Time will tell

My gut feeling is that this is akin to our 'hurt in a
collision with a motor vehicle that allegedly hit him.
Eyewitnesses suggested the car may have mounted the
pavement' monstrosities that the UK press comes up with to
avoid anticipating court decisions.

AC

anonymous coward said:

My gut feeling is that this is akin to our 'hurt in a
collision with a motor vehicle that allegedly hit him.
Eyewitnesses suggested the car may have mounted the
pavement' monstrosities that the UK press comes up with to
avoid anticipating court decisions.

I did wonder about that.

Tony

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

That seems a much stronger version than is warranted by
the original

French.

Quoted message said:

The phrase "David Millar ..... aurait avoué avoir consommé
de l'EPO " is a rather odd "Millar would have admitted
using EPO" rather than "Millar

admitted

Quoted message said:

using EPO" I'm not quite sure how we should interpret the
conditional

perfect

Quoted message said:

tense used here. Its usually used to indicate what would
have happened if something else had occurred which didn't
- e.g. If you had given me £10k,

I

Quoted message said:

would have bought that Litespeed - and here it doesn't say
what the

conditions

Quoted message said:

or implied conditions were under which he would have
admitted using EPO.

The

Quoted message said:

same applies to the sentence about finding EPO ampoules.
It says the

police

Quoted message said:

would have found EPO ampoules in his home.

No, it's not about implied conditions. The second article
(which presumably doesn't originate from L'Equipe), is
saying that 'According to L'Equipe... he has admitted using
EPO'. The use of aurait - 'would have' - doesn't mean 'he
would have', it refers back to L'Equipe - 'as L'Equipe would
have it..' It's the French way of saying somebody else says,
rather than that you are saying so directly yourself (this I
have on good authority from my wife, who is French).

L'Equipe's article says directly: he acknowledged using EPO
while in custody. Sad.

Rich

Richard Goodman said:

No, it's not about implied conditions. The second article
(which presumably doesn't originate from L'Equipe), is
saying that 'According to L'Equipe... he has admitted
using EPO'. The use of aurait - 'would have' - doesn't
mean 'he would have', it refers back to L'Equipe - 'as
L'Equipe would have it..' It's the French way of saying
somebody else says, rather than that you are saying so
directly yourself (this I have on good authority from my
wife, who is French).

L'Equipe's article says directly: he acknowledged using
EPO while in custody. Sad.

I was reading it on L'Equipe's website where it is quoting
the print version of L'Equipe and the quoted text uses the
same construction. So both L'Equipe on-line and L'Equipe
printed are saying "as L'Equipe would have it"? Doesn't
make sense.

«Millar aurait reconnu avoir utilisé de l'Eprex
(erythropoïetine) dans l'exercice de sa profession ce qui le
place aujourd'hui réglementairement dans la même situation
qu'un coureur contrôlé positif au regard de l'Union cycliste
internationale», écrit le journal.
lequipe.fr20040625 091924Dev.htmlOpen ↗

Tony

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Richard Goodman said:

No, it's not about implied conditions. The second
article (which

presumably

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

doesn't originate from L'Equipe), is saying that
'According to

L'Equipe...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

he has admitted using EPO'. The use of aurait - 'would
have' - doesn't

mean

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

'he would have', it refers back to L'Equipe - 'as
L'Equipe would have

it..'

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's the French way of saying somebody else says, rather
than that you

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

saying so directly yourself (this I have on good
authority from my wife,

who

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is French).

L'Equipe's article says directly: he acknowledged using
EPO while in custody. Sad.

I was reading it on L'Equipe's website where it is quoting
the print

version

Quoted message said:

of L'Equipe and the quoted text uses the same
construction. So both

L'Equipe

Quoted message said:

on-line and L'Equipe printed are saying "as L'Equipe would
have it"?

Doesn't

Quoted message said:

make sense.

«Millar aurait reconnu avoir utilisé de l'Eprex
(erythropoïetine) dans l'exercice de sa profession ce qui
le place aujourd'hui réglementairement

dans

Quoted message said:

la même situation qu'un coureur contrôlé positif au regard
de l'Union

cycliste

Quoted message said:

internationale», écrit le journal.
lequipe.fr20040625 091924Dev.htmlOpen ↗

Tony

Yes, it's a bit strange but it's a typically French
journalistic style of construction that you see all the
time. It basically means to suggest 'as the sources would
have it', whether the source is explicit or implicit,
named or unnamed. In the paragraph quoted above, there
still has to be a source of the information, they just
don't say who it is.

Rich

Richard Goodman said:

In the paragraph quoted above, there still has to be a
source of the information, they just don't say who it is.

But if it is anything like the UK the second the Paris
copper who was questionning Millar got a chance he called a
mate at l'Equippe to break the news... for a suitable
commission of course.

I'm pretty fed-up... right before the start of the tour :-(.
Still at least I won't be eating porridge any time soon.

Richard Goodman said:

Yes, it's a bit strange but it's a typically French
journalistic style of construction that you see all the
time. It basically means to suggest 'as the sources would
have it', whether the source is explicit or implicit,
named or unnamed. In the paragraph quoted above, there
still has to be a source of the information, they just
don't say who it is.

Well if its anything like British journalistic sources it
means we don't know anything but want to fill the space so
we'll make something up and attribute it to "sources" or
"friends of Millar".

Tony

Tony Raven said:

Richard Goodman said:

Yes, it's a bit strange but it's a typically French
journalistic style of construction that you see all the
time. It basically means to suggest 'as the sources would
have it', whether the source is explicit or implicit,
named or unnamed. In the paragraph quoted above, there
still has to be a source of the information, they just
don't say who it is.

Well if its anything like British journalistic sources it
means we don't know anything but want to fill the space so
we'll make something up and attribute it to "sources" or
"friends of Millar".

The BBC site is now saying he was taken in for questioning
at the request of the investigating magistrate after being
accused by teammate Gaumont. He has been banned from the
Tour by Cofidis on the grounds that riders under
investigation are automatically suspended. So so far it
looks like smoke but no evidence of a fire as yet.

Tony

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Richard Goodman said:

Yes, it's a bit strange but it's a typically French
journalistic style

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

construction that you see all the time. It basically
means to suggest

'as

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the sources would have it', whether the source is
explicit or implicit, named or unnamed. In the paragraph
quoted above, there still has to be

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

source of the information, they just don't say who
it is.

Well if its anything like British journalistic sources it
means we don't

know

Quoted message said:

anything but want to fill the space so we'll make
something up and

attribute

Quoted message said:

it to "sources" or "friends of Millar".

Yes, that sort of thing. According the BBC, Millar has
denied any involvement, the French press have it that he's
confessed. No doubt they each have their own sources for
that! I hope the Beeb is right! Personally I can't see why
someone with so much at stake would confess unless they knew
there was incontrovertible proof against them. Who knows
what else there might be, but the mere presence of syringes
in my room wouldn't be enough to make me confess! But if
it's true, knowing as they all did that an investigation was
going on, I would be inclined to think it incredibly stupid
to keep doing it!

Rich

Richard Goodman said:

Yes, that sort of thing. According the BBC, Millar has
denied any involvement, the French press have it that he's
confessed. No doubt they each have their own sources for
that! I hope the Beeb is right!

BBC also reporting the rumour that he has confessed (on
5live just now).

Personally I am past caring about pro cycling.

James
--
If I have seen further than others, it is by treading on the
toes of giants. ne.jphomeOpen ↗

"James Annan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

BBC also reporting the rumour that he has confessed (on
5live just now).

Oh really? Well, the fact that there's a rumour is true, the
question is whether the rumour is true!

Quoted message said:

Personally I am past caring about pro cycling.

I don't usually care about pro- anything, but occasionally
work up an interest if a Brit seems to be doing particularly
well at international level. So I still feel very
disappointed at this news.

Seems we'll have to wait for his lawyer's statement, before
anything 'official' comes out, according to his web site.

Rich

Tony Raven said:

anonymous coward said:

My gut feeling is that this is akin to our 'hurt in a
collision with a motor vehicle that allegedly hit him.
Eyewitnesses suggested the car may have mounted the
pavement' monstrosities that the UK press comes up with
to avoid anticipating court decisions.

I did wonder about that.

Me also. <now going OT> The major problem with our press
seems to be that while they love to trumpet from on high,
about the rights of a free press, they also seem remarkably
quiet when it comes to discussing the responsibilities which
come with such freedom.

--
Alex BMW R1150GS DIAABTCOD#3 MSWF#4 UKRMFBC#6 Ibw#35 BOB#8
team-ukrm.co.ukteam-ukrm.co.ukOpen ↗ Windy's "little soldier"

Alex Ferrier said:

Me also. <now going OT> The major problem with our press
seems to be that while they love to trumpet from on high,
about the rights of a free press, they also seem
remarkably quiet when it comes to discussing the
responsibilities which come with such freedom.

You're new to this press game I can see. They are in the
business of making money out of other peoples' lives.
Responsibility or accurate reporting doesn't come into it,
only maximising sales.

Tony

Tony Raven said:

Alex Ferrier said:

Me also. <now going OT> The major problem with our press
seems to be that while they love to trumpet from on
high, about the rights of a free press, they also seem
remarkably quiet when it comes to discussing the
responsibilities which come with such freedom.

You're new to this press game I can see. They are in the
business of

making

Quoted message said:

money out of other peoples' lives. Responsibility or
accurate reporting doesn't come into it, only
maximising sales.

I'd just taken that for granted.

--
Alex BMW R1150GS DIAABTCOD#3 MSWF#4 UKRMFBC#6 Ibw#35 BOB#8
team-ukrm.co.ukteam-ukrm.co.ukOpen ↗ Windy's "little soldier"

Richard Goodman said:

Yes, that sort of thing. According the BBC, Millar has
denied any involvement, the French press have it that
he's confessed. No doubt they each have their own sources
for that!

I doubt the BBC have any sources as they take almost no
interest in cycling. They are probably repeating
Millar's earlier denials or having trouble understanding
their AFP newsfeed.

The French source is part of the police investigation.

"David Off" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I doubt the BBC have any sources as they take almost no
interest in cycling. They are probably repeating Millar's
earlier denials or having trouble understanding their AFP
newsfeed.

The French source is part of the police investigation.

I think you are right - they're just making it up based on
his earlier denials. If he was going to come out with a
fresh denial it would have been quite public. Instead
nothing's being said except wait for a statement from his
lawyers (per his web site). That won't come at least until
after he's seen the magistrate in Paris next week. It is
hard to believe the 'rumour' isn't true.

Rich

Richard Goodman said:

It is hard to believe the 'rumour' isn't true.

You mean like the persistent French rumours about Lance?

Tony