Millar (in French)

"According to l'equipe the Cofidis affair is making another come-back
with the probably prosecution of David Millar. The Scottish rider
admited to having taken EPO while being questionned by police. Empty
bottles were found by police officers at his house. Cofidis immediately
announced their intention to summon the rider to give an explaination"

A rider that is being prosecuted for doping or whom police inquiries are
being made can't start the TDF.

David Off said:

"According to l'equipe the Cofidis affair is making another come-back
with the probably prosecution of David Millar. The Scottish rider
admited to having taken EPO while being questionned by police. Empty
bottles were found by police officers at his house. Cofidis immediately
announced their intention to summon the rider to give an explaination"

A rider that is being prosecuted for doping or whom police inquiries are
being made can't start the TDF.

That seems a much stronger version than is warranted by the original French.
The phrase "David Millar ..... aurait avoué avoir consommé de l'EPO " is a
rather odd "Millar would have admitted using EPO" rather than "Millar admitted
using EPO" I'm not quite sure how we should interpret the conditional perfect
tense used here. Its usually used to indicate what would have happened if
something else had occurred which didn't - e.g. If you had given me £10k, I
would have bought that Litespeed - and here it doesn't say what the conditions
or implied conditions were under which he would have admitted using EPO. The
same applies to the sentence about finding EPO ampoules. It says the police
would have found EPO ampoules in his home.

Curious. Time will tell

Tony

Tony Raven said:

David Off said:

"According to l'equipe the Cofidis affair is making another come-back
with the probably prosecution of David Millar. The Scottish rider
admited to having taken EPO while being questionned by police. Empty
bottles were found by police officers at his house. Cofidis immediately
announced their intention to summon the rider to give an explaination"

A rider that is being prosecuted for doping or whom police inquiries are
being made can't start the TDF.

That seems a much stronger version than is warranted by the original French.
The phrase "David Millar ..... aurait avoué avoir consommé de l'EPO " is a
rather odd "Millar would have admitted using EPO" rather than "Millar admitted
using EPO" I'm not quite sure how we should interpret the conditional perfect
tense used here. Its usually used to indicate what would have happened if
something else had occurred which didn't - e.g. If you had given me £10k, I
would have bought that Litespeed - and here it doesn't say what the conditions
or implied conditions were under which he would have admitted using EPO. The
same applies to the sentence about finding EPO ampoules. It says the police
would have found EPO ampoules in his home.

Curious. Time will tell

My gut feeling is that this is akin to our 'hurt in a collision with a
motor vehicle that allegedly hit him. Eyewitnesses suggested the car may
have mounted the pavement' monstrosities that the UK press comes up with
to avoid anticipating court decisions.

AC

anonymous coward said:

My gut feeling is that this is akin to our 'hurt in a collision with a
motor vehicle that allegedly hit him. Eyewitnesses suggested the car may
have mounted the pavement' monstrosities that the UK press comes up with
to avoid anticipating court decisions.

I did wonder about that.

Tony

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

That seems a much stronger version than is warranted by the original

French.

Quoted message said:

The phrase "David Millar ..... aurait avoué avoir consommé de l'EPO " is a
rather odd "Millar would have admitted using EPO" rather than "Millar

admitted

Quoted message said:

using EPO" I'm not quite sure how we should interpret the conditional

perfect

Quoted message said:

tense used here. Its usually used to indicate what would have happened if
something else had occurred which didn't - e.g. If you had given me £10k,

I

Quoted message said:

would have bought that Litespeed - and here it doesn't say what the

conditions

Quoted message said:

or implied conditions were under which he would have admitted using EPO.

The

Quoted message said:

same applies to the sentence about finding EPO ampoules. It says the

police

Quoted message said:

would have found EPO ampoules in his home.

No, it's not about implied conditions. The second article (which presumably
doesn't originate from L'Equipe), is saying that 'According to L'Equipe...
he has admitted using EPO'. The use of aurait - 'would have' - doesn't mean
'he would have', it refers back to L'Equipe - 'as L'Equipe would have it..'
It's the French way of saying somebody else says, rather than that you are
saying so directly yourself (this I have on good authority from my wife, who
is French).

L'Equipe's article says directly: he acknowledged using EPO while in
custody. Sad.

Rich

Richard Goodman said:

No, it's not about implied conditions. The second article (which presumably
doesn't originate from L'Equipe), is saying that 'According to L'Equipe...
he has admitted using EPO'. The use of aurait - 'would have' - doesn't mean
'he would have', it refers back to L'Equipe - 'as L'Equipe would have it..'
It's the French way of saying somebody else says, rather than that you are
saying so directly yourself (this I have on good authority from my wife, who
is French).

L'Equipe's article says directly: he acknowledged using EPO while in
custody. Sad.

I was reading it on L'Equipe's website where it is quoting the print version
of L'Equipe and the quoted text uses the same construction. So both L'Equipe
on-line and L'Equipe printed are saying "as L'Equipe would have it"? Doesn't
make sense.

«Millar aurait reconnu avoir utilisé de l'Eprex (erythropoïetine) dans
l'exercice de sa profession ce qui le place aujourd'hui réglementairement dans
la même situation qu'un coureur contrôlé positif au regard de l'Union cycliste
internationale», écrit le journal.
http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/20040625_091924Dev.html

Tony

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Richard Goodman said:

No, it's not about implied conditions. The second article (which

presumably

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

doesn't originate from L'Equipe), is saying that 'According to

L'Equipe...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

he has admitted using EPO'. The use of aurait - 'would have' - doesn't

mean

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

'he would have', it refers back to L'Equipe - 'as L'Equipe would have

it..'

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's the French way of saying somebody else says, rather than that you

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

saying so directly yourself (this I have on good authority from my wife,

who

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is French).

L'Equipe's article says directly: he acknowledged using EPO while in
custody. Sad.

I was reading it on L'Equipe's website where it is quoting the print

version

Quoted message said:

of L'Equipe and the quoted text uses the same construction. So both

L'Equipe

Quoted message said:

on-line and L'Equipe printed are saying "as L'Equipe would have it"?

Doesn't

Quoted message said:

make sense.

«Millar aurait reconnu avoir utilisé de l'Eprex (erythropoïetine) dans
l'exercice de sa profession ce qui le place aujourd'hui réglementairement

dans

Quoted message said:

la même situation qu'un coureur contrôlé positif au regard de l'Union

cycliste

Quoted message said:

internationale», écrit le journal.
http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/20040625_091924Dev.html

Tony

Yes, it's a bit strange but it's a typically French journalistic style of
construction that you see all the time. It basically means to suggest 'as
the sources would have it', whether the source is explicit or implicit,
named or unnamed. In the paragraph quoted above, there still has to be a
source of the information, they just don't say who it is.

Rich

Richard Goodman said:

In the paragraph quoted above, there still has to be a
source of the information, they just don't say who it is.

But if it is anything like the UK the second the Paris copper who was
questionning Millar got a chance he called a mate at l'Equippe to break
the news... for a suitable commission of course.

I'm pretty fed-up... right before the start of the tour :-(. Still at
least I won't be eating porridge any time soon.

Richard Goodman said:

Yes, it's a bit strange but it's a typically French journalistic style of
construction that you see all the time. It basically means to suggest 'as
the sources would have it', whether the source is explicit or implicit,
named or unnamed. In the paragraph quoted above, there still has to be a
source of the information, they just don't say who it is.

Well if its anything like British journalistic sources it means we don't know
anything but want to fill the space so we'll make something up and attribute
it to "sources" or "friends of Millar".

Tony

Tony Raven said:

Richard Goodman said:

Yes, it's a bit strange but it's a typically French journalistic style of
construction that you see all the time. It basically means to suggest 'as
the sources would have it', whether the source is explicit or implicit,
named or unnamed. In the paragraph quoted above, there still has to be a
source of the information, they just don't say who it is.

Well if its anything like British journalistic sources it means we don't
know anything but want to fill the space so we'll make something up and
attribute it to "sources" or "friends of Millar".

The BBC site is now saying he was taken in for questioning at the request of
the investigating magistrate after being accused by teammate Gaumont. He has
been banned from the Tour by Cofidis on the grounds that riders under
investigation are automatically suspended. So so far it looks like smoke but
no evidence of a fire as yet.

Tony

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Richard Goodman said:

Yes, it's a bit strange but it's a typically French journalistic style

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

construction that you see all the time. It basically means to suggest

'as

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the sources would have it', whether the source is explicit or implicit,
named or unnamed. In the paragraph quoted above, there still has to be

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

source of the information, they just don't say who it is.

Well if its anything like British journalistic sources it means we don't

know

Quoted message said:

anything but want to fill the space so we'll make something up and

attribute

Quoted message said:

it to "sources" or "friends of Millar".

Yes, that sort of thing. According the BBC, Millar has denied any
involvement, the French press have it that he's confessed. No doubt they
each have their own sources for that! I hope the Beeb is right!
Personally I can't see why someone with so much at stake would confess
unless they knew there was incontrovertible proof against them. Who knows
what else there might be, but the mere presence of syringes in my room
wouldn't be enough to make me confess! But if it's true, knowing as they
all did that an investigation was going on, I would be inclined to think it
incredibly stupid to keep doing it!

Rich

Richard Goodman said:

Yes, that sort of thing. According the BBC, Millar has denied any
involvement, the French press have it that he's confessed. No doubt they
each have their own sources for that! I hope the Beeb is right!

BBC also reporting the rumour that he has confessed (on 5live just now).

Personally I am past caring about pro cycling.

James
--
If I have seen further than others, it is
by treading on the toes of giants.
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/

"James Annan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

BBC also reporting the rumour that he has confessed (on 5live just now).

Oh really? Well, the fact that there's a rumour is true, the question is
whether the rumour is true!

Quoted message said:

Personally I am past caring about pro cycling.

I don't usually care about pro- anything, but occasionally work up an
interest if a Brit seems to be doing particularly well at international
level. So I still feel very disappointed at this news.

Seems we'll have to wait for his lawyer's statement, before anything
'official' comes out, according to his web site.

Rich

Tony Raven said:

anonymous coward said:

My gut feeling is that this is akin to our 'hurt in a collision with a
motor vehicle that allegedly hit him. Eyewitnesses suggested the car may
have mounted the pavement' monstrosities that the UK press comes up with
to avoid anticipating court decisions.

I did wonder about that.

Me also.
<now going OT>
The major problem with our press seems to be that while they love
to trumpet from on high, about the rights of a free press, they also
seem remarkably quiet when it comes to discussing the responsibilities
which come with such freedom.

--
Alex
BMW R1150GS
DIAABTCOD#3 MSWF#4 UKRMFBC#6 Ibw#35 BOB#8
http://www.team-ukrm.co.uk
Windy's "little soldier"

Alex Ferrier said:

Me also.
<now going OT>
The major problem with our press seems to be that while they love
to trumpet from on high, about the rights of a free press, they also
seem remarkably quiet when it comes to discussing the responsibilities
which come with such freedom.

You're new to this press game I can see. They are in the business of making
money out of other peoples' lives. Responsibility or accurate reporting
doesn't come into it, only maximising sales.

Tony

Tony Raven said:

Alex Ferrier said:

Me also.
<now going OT>
The major problem with our press seems to be that while they love
to trumpet from on high, about the rights of a free press, they also
seem remarkably quiet when it comes to discussing the responsibilities
which come with such freedom.

You're new to this press game I can see. They are in the business of

making

Quoted message said:

money out of other peoples' lives. Responsibility or accurate reporting
doesn't come into it, only maximising sales.

I'd just taken that for granted.

--
Alex
BMW R1150GS
DIAABTCOD#3 MSWF#4 UKRMFBC#6 Ibw#35 BOB#8
http://www.team-ukrm.co.uk
Windy's "little soldier"

Richard Goodman said:

Yes, that sort of thing. According the BBC, Millar has denied any
involvement, the French press have it that he's confessed. No doubt they
each have their own sources for that!

I doubt the BBC have any sources as they take almost no interest in
cycling. They are probably repeating Millar's earlier denials or having
trouble understanding their AFP newsfeed.

The French source is part of the police investigation.

"David Off" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I doubt the BBC have any sources as they take almost no interest in
cycling. They are probably repeating Millar's earlier denials or having
trouble understanding their AFP newsfeed.

The French source is part of the police investigation.

I think you are right - they're just making it up based on his earlier
denials. If he was going to come out with a fresh denial it would have been
quite public. Instead nothing's being said except wait for a statement
from his lawyers (per his web site). That won't come at least until after
he's seen the magistrate in Paris next week. It is hard to believe the
'rumour' isn't true.

Rich

Richard Goodman said:

It is hard to believe the 'rumour' isn't true.

You mean like the persistent French rumours about Lance?

Tony