Millar and 4k pursuit

"Peter Allen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Has David Millar ever tried the pursuit? You'd think he'd be pretty good if he could transfer the
power he showed in the TdF prologue to a mechanicals-free track bike.

Track bikes have mechanical failures, the most common being the rear wheel pulling loose at the
start, but also flat tires, etc.

velodrome without his skinsuit or some other thing.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

"Peter Allen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Has David Millar ever tried the pursuit? You'd think he'd be pretty good if he could transfer the
power he showed in the TdF prologue to a mechanicals-free track bike.

At one point he was down to ride the Commonwealth Games Pursuit last year, but withdrew from that
and the RR to ride a TTT in Germany - another reason he is not the most popular "Scot" in Scotland.

According to his website he is scheduled to spend time training with Peter Keen at the end of the
season. He says to assess his chances for the Hour Record, but also perhaps to test for the Pursuit
at next year's Olympics?

Olympic Pursuit could be a smart move for him if he wants to raise his profile and market-ability
in the UK.

Regards! Stephen

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Peter Allen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Has David Millar ever tried the pursuit? You'd think he'd be pretty good if he could transfer
the power he showed in the TdF prologue to a mechanicals-free track bike.

Track bikes have mechanical failures, the most common being the rear wheel pulling loose at the
start, but also flat tires, etc.

Quoted message said:

velodrome without his skinsuit or some other thing.

I meant, if he did not have mechanicals, not that the bikes are

I was going to suggest that he'd probably end up riding 11-54, courtesy of doing the parts order
himself and insisting it be made specially, ignoring the advice, but then with a corner at each end
of the velodrome he doesn't need mechanical help to come off.

Peter

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Track bikes have mechanical failures, the most common being the rear wheel pulling loose at the
start, but also flat tires, etc.

Right, but I'm pretty sure you get a restart in the pursuit if that happens. The most common
"dumbass" fatal failure is pulling out at the start.

Quoted message said:

velodrome without his skinsuit or some other thing.

Wasn't Dave Grylls a famous pursuit basket case who got psychological help but still managed to pull
out at the Olympics? I also have personal knowledge of at least one good pursuitist who did his best
time in the training session the week prior to the big race, apart from pulling out at other track
meets. I conclude that Millar types aren't that unusual in the pursuit.

-ilan

In article <[email hidden]>, Ilan Vardi

Quoted message said:

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Track bikes have mechanical failures, the most common being the rear wheel pulling loose at the
start, but also flat tires, etc.

Right, but I'm pretty sure you get a restart in the pursuit if that happens. The most common
"dumbass" fatal failure is pulling out at the start.

You now get ONE restart.

-WG

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Ilan Vardi

Quoted message said:

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Track bikes have mechanical failures, the most common being the rear

wheel

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pulling loose at the start, but also flat tires, etc.

Right, but I'm pretty sure you get a restart in the pursuit if that

happens.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The most common "dumbass" fatal failure is pulling out at the start.

You now get ONE restart.

That's for a false start or a mechanical *failure* (and I'm not sure, haven't read the rules lately,
what the number of restart limits are). If you pull the rear wheel on the start or pull your foot
out of the pedal, you're SOL.

In article said:

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Ilan Vardi <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...
>
> Track bikes have mechanical failures, the most common being the rear

wheel

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> pulling loose at the start, but also flat tires, etc.

Right, but I'm pretty sure you get a restart in the pursuit if that

happens.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The most common "dumbass" fatal failure is pulling out at the start.

You now get ONE restart.

That's for a false start or a mechanical *failure* (and I'm not sure, haven't read the rules
lately, what the number of restart limits are). If you pull the rear wheel on the start or pull
your foot out of the pedal, you're SOL.

No, the one restart is also awarded for pulling your wheel out or pulling your foot out-at least
according to the USAC rules. I think the rule went into effect this year. At the NorCal track
Districts 3 weeks ago Larry Nolan pulled a wheel and I pulled a foot out in Team Sprint starts and
both of our teams were given a restart.

-WG

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"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message=20

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

=20
That's for a false start or a mechanical *failure* (and I'm not =

sure,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

haven't read the rules lately, what the number of restart limits =

are). If

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

you pull the rear wheel on the start or pull your foot out of the =

pedal,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

you're SOL.

=20
No, the one restart is also awarded for pulling your wheel out or pulling your foot out-at least
according to the USAC rules. I think =

the

Quoted message said:

rule went into effect this year. At the NorCal track Districts 3 weeks ago Larry Nolan pulled a
wheel and I pulled a foot out in Team Sprint starts and both of our teams were given a restart.=20
=20

The USCF rules for starts are unclear and inconsistent (surprised?):

2I. Time Trial

2I1. Standing Start Events.
(b) In a kilometer time trial the competitors shall race two at a = time, with one rider
starting on each side of the track, and the = starting procedure shall be the same as for
individual pursuit.
2I2. Restarts.
(a) In the case of a false start, or unrecognized mishap, the rider = shall restart immediately.
(b) In the case of a recognized mishap the rider shall take a new = start whenever possible
(generally within ten [10] minutes or at the end = of the same session).
(c) A rider is permitted at most, two starts.

2J. Individual Pursuit

2J1. Starts.
(d) Each rider is allowed only two rerides for false starts or = mishaps. Therefore, a rider is
entitled to only three starts.
2J2. Mishaps.
(a) Qualifying round: In the first half-lap, in the event of a mishap, = recognized or otherwise,
the race is stopped and restarted immediately.A rider may only be permitted to have two (2)
starts in = this round.
(b) First round: In the event of a mishap in the first half-lap, the = race shall be stopped and
restarted immediately by both riders. After = the first half-lap the race shall not be
stopped. A rider who is the = victim of a recognized or unrecognized mishap shall be permitted
to ride = again at the end of the quarterfinals or first round either alone or = matched
against another rider in the same situation. Their opponent = shall continue to record a time.
A rider may only be permitted to have = two (2) starts in this round. (c) Final: In the first
half-lap, in the = event of a mishap, recognized or otherwise, the race is stopped and =
restarted immediately. If a mishap recognized or unrecognized, occurs = after the first half
lap but before the last kilometer, the race will be = stopped and restarted with both riders
positioned relative to the last = half-lap lines they crossed; the race leader will be on the
line and the = other rider a distance back of the line equivalent to the gap in = seconds,
given by B =3D (G x L) / (2 x T) where; B =3D Distance back of the half-lap line for the
slower rider; G =3D Gap in seconds between the time of the faster and slower rider at the last
completed half-lap; L =3D Length of one lap of the track; T =3D Time of the slower rider in
completing the last half-lap. If either rider suffers a recognized mishap, in the last
kilometer, = the starter shall stop the race and the times at the preceding half-lap = shall
be used to decide the winner.

2K. Team Pursuit

2K1. Start.
(f) Each team is allowed two rerides only for false starts. Therefore, = a team is entitled to
only three starts.

2K2. Mishaps.
(a) The officials must immediately determine the cause of any stoppage and whether or not a
legitimate mishap has occurred.

2L. Team Sprint

2L1. Mishaps:
(a) Qualifying rounds: In the event of a mishap, the team may restart (once only) at the end of
the qualifying round, whether or not the accident is recognized. In the event that a second
mishap occurs during the second attempt, the team shall be eliminated. Any team which may have
been hindered by a mishap to its opponents may, by decision of the officials, be granted a
restart at the end of the qualifying rounds.
(b) Semi-finals and finals: In the event of a mishap (whether or not recognized), the team
involved shall not be granted a restart.

Only the Team Pursuit rules refer to the legitimacy of a mishap.

Also note that a start is recognized as different than a restart.
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META
http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML
6.00.2800.1170" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"warren" <</FONT><A=20
href=3D""][email hidden]"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>[email hidden]</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2>> wrote in=20
message </FONT></DIV>
<DVI><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> > <BR>> > That's for a = false start or=20 a
mechanical *failure* (and I'm not sure,<BR>> > haven't read the = rules=20 lately, what
the number of restart limits are). If<BR>> > you pull = the=20 rear wheel on the start
or pull your foot out of the pedal,<BR>> > = you're=20 SOL.<BR>> <BR>> No, the
one restart is also awarded for pulling = your wheel=20 out or<BR>> pulling your foot
out-at least according to the USAC = rules. I=20 think the<BR>> rule went into effect this
year. At the NorCal track = Districts=20 3 weeks<BR>> ago Larry Nolan pulled a wheel and I
pulled a foot out = in Team=20 Sprint<BR>> starts and both of our teams were given a
restart. = <BR>>=20 <BR></FONT></DIV>
<DVII><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The USCF rules for starts are unclear = and=20 inconsistent
(surprised?):</FONT></DIV>
<DVIII><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr
style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIX><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>2I. Time = Trial</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DX><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2><BR>2I3. Standing=20 Start
Events.<BR>(b) In a kilometer time trial the competitors shall = race two=20 at a time, with
one rider starting on each side of the track, and the = starting=20 procedure shall be the
same as for individual pursuit.<BR>2I4.=20 Restarts.<BR><EM>(a) In the case of a false
start, or unrecognized = mishap, the=20 rider shall restart immediately.<BR>(b) In the case
of a recognized = mishap the=20 rider shall take a new start whenever possible (generally
within ten =
[10]=20 minutes or at the end of the same session).<BR></EM>(c) A rider is = permitted=20 at most,
two starts.</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT size=3D2><FONT size=3D1><FONT size=3D2><FONT =
size=3D1><FONT=20 face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV
dir=3Dltr><FONT size=3D2><FONT size=3D1><FONT size=3D2><FONT = size=3D1><FONT=20 face=3DArial
size=3D2><STRONG>2J. Individual=20 Pursuit</STRONG></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT
size=3D2><FONT size=3D1><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2>2J11.=20 Starts.</FONT></DIV> <DIV
dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft></FONT><FONT face=3DArial>(d) Each rider = is allowed only=20 two rerides
for false starts or mishaps. Therefore, a rider is = entitled to=20 only three
starts.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV
dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial>2J12. = Mishaps.</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr
align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial>(a) Qualifying round: = <EM>In the=20 first half-lap, in the
event of a mishap, </EM>recognized or = otherwise, the=20 race is stopped and
restarted</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><EM><FONT face=3DArial>immediately.A rider =
may only be=20 permitted to have two (2) starts in this round.</FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr
align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial><EM>(b) First round: In = the event of=20 a mishap in the first
half-lap, the race </EM><EM>shall be stopped and =

restarted immediately by both riders. After the </EM><EM>first = half-lap the=20 race shall not be
stopped. A rider who is the victim of </EM><EM>a = recognized=20 or unrecognized mishap shall be
permitted to ride again </EM><EM>at = the end of=20 the quarterfinals or first round either alone
or matched = </EM><EM>against=20 another rider in the same situation. Their opponent shall =
</EM><EM>continue to=20 record a time. A rider may only be permitted to have two </EM><EM>(2) =
starts=20 in this round.</EM> <EM>(c) Final: In the first half-lap, in the event = of a=20 mishap,
recognized or </EM>otherwise, the race is stopped and = restarted=20 immediately. If a mishap
recognized or unrecognized, occurs after the = first=20 half lap but before the last
<I>kilometer</I>, the race will be = stopped and=20 restarted with both riders positioned relative
to the last half-lap = lines they=20 crossed; the race leader will be on the line and the other
rider a = distance=20 back of the line equivalent to the gap in seconds, given = by</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial>B =3D (G x L) / (2 x T) =

where;</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial>B =3D Distance back of = the
half-lap=20 line for the slower rider;</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT
face=3DArial>G =3D Gap in seconds = between the time=20 of the faster and slower</FONT></DIV> <DIV
dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial>rider at the last = completed=20 half-lap;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial>L =3D Length of one lap = of the=20
track;</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial>T =3D Time of the = slower
rider in=20 completing the last half-lap.</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT
face=3DArial>If either rider suffers = a=20
<I>recognized </I>mishap, in the last kilometer, the starter shall = stop the=20 race and the
times at the preceding half-lap shall be used to decide = the=20 winner.</FONT></DIV> <DIV
dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DHelvetica-Bold size=3D1><FONT = face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DHelvetica-Bold
size=3D1><FONT = face=3DArial=20 size=3D2><STRONG>2K. Team
Pursuit</STRONG></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT
face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DHelvetica-Bold
size=3D1><FONT =

face=3DHelvetica-Bold size=3D1><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2K10.=20
Start.</FONT></DIV></FONT><FONT face=3DHelvetica-Bold size=3D1> <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT
face=3DArial size=3D2>(f) = </FONT></FONT><FONT=20 face=3DHelvetica size=3D1><FONT face=3DArial
size=3D2>Each team is = allowed two rerides=20 only for false starts. Therefore, a</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>team is = entitled to only three=20
starts.</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></FONT><FONT face=3DHelvetica-Bold = size=3D1> <DIV dir=3Dltr
align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2K11. = Mishaps.</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr
align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial><FONT = size=3D2><STRONG>(a)</STRONG>=20
</FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT face=3DHelvetica size=3D1><FONT = face=3DArial size=3D2>The=20
officials must immediately determine the cause of any</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr
align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>stoppage and = whether or not a=20 legitimate mishap has
occurred.</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV><FONT=20 face=3DHelvetica-Bold size=3D1></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE
dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial
size=3D2><STRONG>2L. = Team=20 Sprint</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT
face=3DArial = size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial
size=3D2>2L4. = Mishaps:</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>(a)
Qualifying =

rounds:</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In the event = of a
mishap, the=20 team may restart (once only) at the end</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr
align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>of the = qualifying round,=20 whether or not the accident
is recognized. In</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the event
that = a second mishap=20 occurs during the second attempt, the</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr
align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>team shall be = eliminated. Any=20 team which may have
been hindered</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>by a mishap to
= its opponents=20 may, by decision of the officials, be</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr
align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>granted a = restart at the end=20 of the qualifying
rounds.</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>(b) = Semi-finals
and=20 finals:</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In the event =
of a mishap=20 (whether or not recognized), the team</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr
align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>involved shall = not be granted=20 a
restart.</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial
size=3D2>Only the Team = Pursuit rules=20 refer to the legitimacy of a mishap.</FONT></DIV> <DIV
dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr
align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Also note that a = start is=20 recognized as different
than a=20 restart.</FONT></DIV></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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In article said:

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message=20

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

=20
That's for a false start or a mechanical *failure* (and I'm not =

sure,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

haven't read the rules lately, what the number of restart limits =

are). If

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

you pull the rear wheel on the start or pull your foot out of the =

pedal,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

you're SOL.

=20
No, the one restart is also awarded for pulling your wheel out or pulling your foot out-at least
according to the USAC rules. I think =

the

Quoted message said:

rule went into effect this year. At the NorCal track Districts 3 weeks ago Larry Nolan pulled a
wheel and I pulled a foot out in Team Sprint starts and both of our teams were given a
restart.=20
=20

The USCF rules for starts are unclear and inconsistent (surprised?):

What a mess! My hunch is that 80% of officials on a good day would consider something dumb like
pulling a wheel over or a foot out as an unrecognized mishap, as opposed to a crash which would be a
recognized mishap.

Unfortunately we were also subjected to a silly interpretation of the rule regarding the lead
rider's method of reliquishing the lead in the Team Sprint. Teams would be dq'd if the lead rider
wasn't in the sprinter's lane coming out of turn 4 and he had to stay in the lane until the pull
out/passing zone.

Just part of the fun of track racing. Does anyone ever get dq'd in road events?

-WG

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately we were also subjected to a silly interpretation of the rule regarding the lead
rider's method of reliquishing the lead in the Team Sprint. Teams would be dq'd if the lead rider
wasn't in the sprinter's lane coming out of turn 4 and he had to stay in the lane until the pull
out/passing zone.

Just part of the fun of track racing. Does anyone ever get dq'd in road events?

Ya. Happens all the time in road races, with the yellow line rule.

You'd know that if you were capable of being competitive in a road race by losing some poundage and
putting on some mileage.

In article <[email hidden]>, Kurgan Gringioni

Quoted message said:

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately we were also subjected to a silly interpretation of the rule regarding the lead
rider's method of reliquishing the lead in the Team Sprint. Teams would be dq'd if the lead
rider wasn't in the sprinter's lane coming out of turn 4 and he had to stay in the lane until
the pull out/passing zone.

Just part of the fun of track racing. Does anyone ever get dq'd in road events?

Ya. Happens all the time in road races, with the yellow line rule.

You'd know that if you were capable of being competitive in a road race by losing some poundage
and putting on some mileage.

Hey Dumbass,

How many good road racers do you know of that are 6'5", have a high proportion of fast twitch, and
have a LBM of 182 lbs?

-WG

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What a mess! My hunch is that 80% of officials on a good day would consider something dumb like
pulling a wheel over or a foot out as an unrecognized mishap, as opposed to a crash which would be
a recognized mishap.

Unfortunately we were also subjected to a silly interpretation of the rule regarding the lead
rider's method of reliquishing the lead in the Team Sprint. Teams would be dq'd if the lead rider
wasn't in the sprinter's lane coming out of turn 4 and he had to stay in the lane until the pull
out/passing zone.

Just part of the fun of track racing. Does anyone ever get dq'd in road events?

I got DQ'd once in the Missouri District TT for violating the blue line rule. What's that, you say?
It's the unannounced rule that says you have to stay to the left of a hand-painted blue line during
a blind left turn at a T-intersection where you DON'T have the right-of-way, while the road guard
and police officer stationed there just stand there looking at you blankly playing pocket pool.

Andy Coggan

In article said:

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The USCF rules for starts are unclear and inconsistent (surprised?):

What a mess! My hunch is that 80% of officials on a good day would consider something dumb like
pulling a wheel over or a foot out as an unrecognized mishap, as opposed to a crash which would
be a recognized mishap.

My interpretation of unrecognized would something subtle, like a tubular that is bulging and
about to burst, a broken spoke, or a binder bolt that has broken, causing the handlebars or
seatpin to move. I think recognized would be a blown tire or broken (not derailed) chain, or as
you say, a crash.

As I said before, I think of insufficiently tightened bolts that cause problems like seats
lowering or the rear wheel pulling, even pulling out of the pedal, as not being legitimate
mishaps, i.e. no mechanical failure occurred.

How officials interpret those things is largely based on their track officiating experience. We
all learn quickly who the good and the poor officials are.

I'm pretty sure I've seen that part of the stated intent of allowing restarts is so that we don't
suffer the fate of Shane Kelly's Olympic pullout. I'm pretty sure such a restart has been granted at
UCI events. I think this is good because the fastest guy or team should win the event as long as
they haven't done something to gain advantage or delay the proceedings too much.

-WG

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hey Dumbass,

How many good road racers do you know of that are 6'5", have a high proportion of fast twitch, and
have a LBM of 182 lbs?

Didn't Marty Nothstein just win in NYC?

Andy Coggan

In article <[email hidden]>, Andy Coggan

Quoted message said:

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hey Dumbass,

How many good road racers do you know of that are 6'5", have a high proportion of fast twitch,
and have a LBM of 182 lbs?

Didn't Marty Nothstein just win in NYC?

Exactly. I has taken him 3 years of road-specific training just to win a flat criterium and he's had
virtually no success in road races.

-WG

In article <[email hidden]>, Kurgan Gringioni

Quoted message said:

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Ya. Happens all the time in road races, with the yellow line rule.

You'd know that if you were capable of being competitive in a road race

by

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

losing some poundage and putting on some mileage.

Hey Dumbass,

How many good road racers do you know of that are 6'5", have a high proportion of fast twitch,
and have a LBM of 182 lbs?

Dumbass -

It's the overall package that counts, not just LBM.

What's your fat percentage?

Even for you this is a really ignorant argument you're making. Why is the average size of a
good road racer about 9" shorter than me, 40 lbs. lighter than me (LBM), and 5+% slower than me
in a 200mTT?

Even if my fat % was only 5-10% I'd still be 20-40 lbs heavier than 99% of my competition and I'd
also have to overcome the handicap of having a relatively low proportion of ST fibers. I like going
fast, and racing in corners so I'll continue to focus on the events I'm best-suited for and that I
enjoy most.

-WG

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Andy Coggan

Quoted message said:

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hey Dumbass,

How many good road racers do you know of that are 6'5", have a high proportion of fast twitch,
and have a LBM of 182 lbs?

Didn't Marty Nothstein just win in NYC?

Exactly. I has taken him 3 years of road-specific training just to win a flat criterium and he's
had virtually no success in road races.

How do you know he won't? At least he enters the road races.

BTW, I am fast twitch, was a track sprinter (running) in college.

You've got no excuse. You've been racing for how many years? 15? 20? and you don't even know that
people get DQ'd for yellow line violations because you won't challenge yourself with a road race.

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Dumbass -

It's the overall package that counts, not just LBM.

What's your fat percentage?

Even for you this is a really ignorant argument you're making. Why is the average size of a
good road racer about 9" shorter than me, 40 lbs. lighter than me (LBM), and 5+% slower than me
in a 200mTT?

Goddamm, you're pathetic.

Michael Zanoli, 6'6". Eros Poli, 6'5". Magnus Backstedt 6'5".

If those guys had your negative attitude, they'd be just as bad as you.

In article <[email hidden]>, Kurgan Gringioni

Quoted message said:

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Andy Coggan

Quoted message said:

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
> Hey Dumbass,
>
> How many good road racers do you know of that are 6'5", have a high proportion of fast
> twitch, and have a LBM of 182 lbs?

Didn't Marty Nothstein just win in NYC?

Exactly. I has taken him 3 years of road-specific training just to win a flat criterium and he's
had virtually no success in road races.

How do you know he won't? At least he enters the road races.

BTW, I am fast twitch, was a track sprinter (running) in college.

You've got no excuse. You've been racing for how many years? 15? 20? and you don't even know that
people get DQ'd for yellow line violations because you won't challenge yourself with a road race.

I've done RR's and my comment about DQ's in road events was tongue in cheek because on the track
there are many called infractions amid various interpretations of the rules, which in fact is what
Carl and I were discussing before you tried to make this thread into another one of your diatribes
about fat, but similar infractions go unpunished by the officials at criteriums and rr's.

-WG