Mike Vandeman

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 12:54:02 +0200, "jg" <[email hidden]> wrote:

..I feel sorry for you....
..
..Have you ever been to Africa...?

Yes. Your point?
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Mike,

The whole Southern Africa used to team with wildlife... the Southern part
(Botswana, Namibia, South Africa) used to team with millions of game. The
coastal belt of South Africa used to be one long indigenous forest...
Wildlife you have never seen.... America and where ever else just don't have
the same amount and variety...

Today you see Pine forests along the coast.... very little of the indigenous
forest left.... today... in most areas... the only signs of game are the
paintings found in caves... created by the Koi San, the bushmen of Southern
Africa.... I look at the place where I live and it's hard to believe that
all species, incl. Lions, Elephant once roamed here... The only area in
South Africa presenting it's original form is the Kruger National Park....

These were destroyed.... by humans.... AGES BEFORE MOUNTAINBIKING EVEN
EXISTED!

Now.... you look at a trail.... have you ever seen what vegetation look like
after 200 Buffalo has crossed it? TRASHED! I wish you could experience it...
it is really shocking....

The Knysna Forest (where some of our best MTB Trails are) once had over 500
Elephant... ever seen what soft soil look like after an Elephant has been
there? Ever seen how they push large trees over?

Have you experienced how much better vegetation grow when the soil is lifted
or loosened? Well... I have.... I have seen with my own eyes how lush
vegetation grows next to paths, I have seen massive erosion alongside river
banks --- natural paths.... created by nature....

It's designed to be like that, created for a reason....

Don't ever think of telling me mountainbiking is more damaging to nature,
than nature itself....

Rather come to Africa and do something... they need you HERE.... get a gun
and a mountainbike and become a ranger and help stop the poaching of the
beautiful nature we have...

Maybe one day you will be helpful in a constructive way.

I am a big nature lover.... but no point in blaming the mountainbiking
community....

Jo

(South Africa)

"Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 12:54:02 +0200, "jg" <[email hidden]> wrote:

.I feel sorry for you....
.
.Have you ever been to Africa...?

Yes. Your point?
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 19:43:38 +0200, "jg" <[email hidden]> wrote:

..Mike,
..
..The whole Southern Africa used to team with wildlife... the Southern part
..(Botswana, Namibia, South Africa) used to team with millions of game. The
..coastal belt of South Africa used to be one long indigenous forest...
..Wildlife you have never seen.... America and where ever else just don't have
..the same amount and variety...
..
..Today you see Pine forests along the coast.... very little of the indigenous
..forest left.... today... in most areas... the only signs of game are the
..paintings found in caves... created by the Koi San, the bushmen of Southern
..Africa.... I look at the place where I live and it's hard to believe that
..all species, incl. Lions, Elephant once roamed here... The only area in
..South Africa presenting it's original form is the Kruger National Park....
..
..These were destroyed.... by humans.... AGES BEFORE MOUNTAINBIKING EVEN
..EXISTED!

Irrelevant.

..Now.... you look at a trail.... have you ever seen what vegetation look like
..after 200 Buffalo has crossed it? TRASHED! I wish you could experience it...
..it is really shocking....
..
..The Knysna Forest (where some of our best MTB Trails are) once had over 500
..Elephant... ever seen what soft soil look like after an Elephant has been
..there? Ever seen how they push large trees over?
..
..Have you experienced how much better vegetation grow when the soil is lifted
..or loosened? Well... I have.... I have seen with my own eyes how lush
..vegetation grows next to paths, I have seen massive erosion alongside river
..banks --- natural paths.... created by nature....
..
..It's designed to be like that, created for a reason....
..
..Don't ever think of telling me mountainbiking is more damaging to nature,
..than nature itself....

Nature is, by definition, NOT damaging. It has a right to do what it wants. But
humans don't have the right to destroy nature.

..Rather come to Africa and do something... they need you HERE.... get a gun
..and a mountainbike and become a ranger and help stop the poaching of the
..beautiful nature we have...
..
..Maybe one day you will be helpful in a constructive way.
..
..I am a big nature lover.... but no point in blaming the mountainbiking
..community....

You are a hypocrite. Habitat destruction is bad when others do it, but not when
YOU do it. Allyou are doing is rationalizing doing more damage.

..Jo
..
..(South Africa)
..
..
..
.."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
..news:[email hidden]...
..> On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 12:54:02 +0200, "jg" <[email hidden]> wrote:
..>
..> .I feel sorry for you....
..> .
..> .Have you ever been to Africa...?
..>
..> Yes. Your point?
..> ===
..> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
..> humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
..> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
..>
..> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
..

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Quoted message said:

Nature is, by definition, NOT damaging. It has a right to do what it
wants. But
humans don't have the right to destroy nature.

Humans are part of the chain in nature... where do you come from? Go tell
this to you anchestors who cut down forests and destroyed thousands of
whales, seals, many other animals...

If you knew anything about nature, you would be aware that it IS damaging...
in MANY ways...

LANDSLIDES
THUNDERSTORMS
FLOODS
FIRE .... started by lightning
CRUSHED vegetation, caused by large falling trees in forests.
TSUNAMI's
DROUGHT

Of all the damage caused to nature worldwide, the above cause far more
damage to nature than any human could possibly do...

I am absolutely against the mishandling of natural resources, but get
real.... the amount of damage caused by a mountainbike wheel is smaller than
when 5 Kudu walk on the same trail... Humans have a right to live here
too.... If God wanted it perfect... He would not put humans here... maybe on
the Moon... or Hell...

Quoted message said:

You are a hypocrite. Habitat destruction is bad when others do it, but not
when
YOU do it. Allyou are doing is rationalizing doing more damage.

Habitat destruction is bad... but c'mon... riding a mountainbike does not
destroy habitat... our mountainbike community does more protection than the
hiking community...

I am not... You should read again... Come to Africa and see for yourself
how large herds of game damage the soil, what erosion they cause... now...
but back then there were thousands more - before NON MOUNTAINBIKERS
destroyed it - the results were much bigger...

The little dust we cause are NOTHING in comparison with what nature itself
used to do to itself --- before NON MOUNTAINBIKERS messed it up...

I am involved in more conservation programs than you might think... and I
could send you photos....

You should learn something about nature.... come to the Knysna Forest one
day.... hike the trails... READ the informtion you will find along the
routes... it tells you WHY large trees nee to fall over...why they need to
crush vegetation... WHY storms and running water NEED to cause erosion....

Absolutely no point in you silly argument...

Get involved... do something.... prevent the REAL damage... or in a few
years you WILL have only squirrels left....

Quoted message said:

.Jo
.
.(South Africa)
.
.
.
."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
.news:[email hidden]...
.> On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 12:54:02 +0200, "jg" <[email hidden]>
wrote:
.>
.> .I feel sorry for you....
.> .
.> .Have you ever been to Africa...?
.>
.> Yes. Your point?
.> ===
.> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
.> humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
.> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
.>
.> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
.

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

You will never get it.... Why not ban ALL people from the eart... then YOU
only, will be happy.... get real...

<PLONK>

"Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 08:18:55 +0200, "jg" <[email hidden]> wrote:

.> Nature is, by definition, NOT damaging. It has a right to do what it
.> wants. But
.> humans don't have the right to destroy nature.
.
.Humans are part of the chain in nature.

Right. The most DESTRUCTIVE part. No other species kills so many organisms
unnecessarily.

.. where do you come from? Go tell
.this to you anchestors who cut down forests and destroyed thousands of
.whales, seals, many other animals...
.
.If you knew anything about nature, you would be aware that it IS
damaging...
.in MANY ways...
.
.LANDSLIDES
.THUNDERSTORMS
.FLOODS
.FIRE .... started by lightning
.CRUSHED vegetation, caused by large falling trees in forests.
.TSUNAMI's
.DROUGHT
.
.Of all the damage caused to nature worldwide, the above cause far more
.damage to nature than any human could possibly do...

Irrelevant. Just because someone/something does damage, that doesn't give
you
the right to do so. DUH!

.I am absolutely against the mishandling of natural resources, but get
.real.... the amount of damage caused by a mountainbike wheel is smaller
than
.when 5 Kudu walk on the same trail... Humans have a right to live here
.too.... If God wanted it perfect... He would not put humans here...

Fairy tales won't help you.

maybe on
.the Moon... or Hell...
.
.> You are a hypocrite. Habitat destruction is bad when others do it, but
not
.> when
.> YOU do it. Allyou are doing is rationalizing doing more damage.
.
.Habitat destruction is bad... but c'mon... riding a mountainbike does not
.destroy habitat... our mountainbike community does more protection than
the
.hiking community...

BS. We get habitat protected. Then you DESTROY it!

.I am not... You should read again... Come to Africa and see for yourself
.how large herds of game damage the soil, what erosion they cause...
now...
.but back then there were thousands more - before NON MOUNTAINBIKERS
.destroyed it - the results were much bigger...
.
.The little dust we cause are NOTHING in comparison with what nature
itself
.used to do to itself --- before NON MOUNTAINBIKERS messed it up...
.
.I am involved in more conservation programs than you might think... and I
.could send you photos....
.
.You should learn something about nature.... come to the Knysna Forest one
.day.... hike the trails... READ the informtion you will find along the
.routes... it tells you WHY large trees nee to fall over...why they need
to
.crush vegetation... WHY storms and running water NEED to cause
erosion....
.
.Absolutely no point in you silly argument...
.
.Get involved... do something.... prevent the REAL damage... or in a few
.years you WILL have only squirrels left....

All you are doing is trying to rationalize what is totally injustifiable.
You
are completely transparent.

.> .Jo
.> .
.> .(South Africa)
.> .
.> .
.> .
.> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
.> .news:[email hidden]...
.> .> On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 12:54:02 +0200, "jg" <[email hidden]>
.> wrote:
.> .>
.> .> .I feel sorry for you....
.> .> .
.> .> .Have you ever been to Africa...?
.> .>
.> .> Yes. Your point?
.> .> ===
.> .> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
.> .> humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
.> .> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
.> .>
.> .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
.> .
.>
.> ===
.> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
.> humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
.> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
.>
.> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
.

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

"Gary Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Press Release, Gary Fisher Corporation 2005/04/01

After years of having fun, we have decided to finally come clean. As most

of

Quoted message said:

you have guessed by now, "Michael Vandeman" is a hoax. This virtual

Internet

Quoted message said:

persona is a parody that the Gary Fisher mountain bike company made up to
show just how foolish NIMBYs can be.

At first, we intended Vandeman to be simple joke. Later, Vandeman became

a

Quoted message said:

marketing ploy. Potential bicyclists realized that only an idiot could be
doing all that ranting and raving. Any sport opposed by idiots must be

OK,

Quoted message said:

right?

After years of spouting the same nonsense, we have decided to cease the
Vandeman project. NIMBYism is, by definition, a single argument repeated
over and over. We have grown tired of trying to say the same thing in

1000

Quoted message said:

different ways. Our future advertisting programs will use different
techniques; sometimes more mainstream and sometimes just as provocative.
Stay tuned.

See you on the trails,
Gary Fisher

If it were only true.

Greg

"Gary Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Press Release, Gary Fisher Corporation 2005/04/01

After years of having fun, we have decided to finally come clean. As most
of
you have guessed by now, "Michael Vandeman" is a hoax. This virtual
Internet
persona is a parody that the Gary Fisher mountain bike company made up to
show just how foolish NIMBYs can be.

At first, we intended Vandeman to be simple joke. Later, Vandeman became
a
marketing ploy. Potential bicyclists realized that only an idiot could be
doing all that ranting and raving. Any sport opposed by idiots must be
OK,
right?

After years of spouting the same nonsense, we have decided to cease the
Vandeman project. NIMBYism is, by definition, a single argument repeated
over and over. We have grown tired of trying to say the same thing in
1000
different ways. Our future advertisting programs will use different
techniques; sometimes more mainstream and sometimes just as provocative.
Stay tuned.

See you on the trails,
Gary Fisher

bbbbwwwwwaaaaaaahaahahahahahahah!!

Go Gary!

On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 16:41:59 -0800, "G.T." <[email hidden]> wrote:

..
.."Gary Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
..news:[email hidden]...
..> Press Release, Gary Fisher Corporation 2005/04/01
..>
..> After years of having fun, we have decided to finally come clean. As most
..of
..> you have guessed by now, "Michael Vandeman" is a hoax. This virtual
..Internet
..> persona is a parody that the Gary Fisher mountain bike company made up to
..> show just how foolish NIMBYs can be.
..>
..> At first, we intended Vandeman to be simple joke. Later, Vandeman became
..a
..> marketing ploy. Potential bicyclists realized that only an idiot could be
..> doing all that ranting and raving. Any sport opposed by idiots must be
..OK,
..> right?
..>
..> After years of spouting the same nonsense, we have decided to cease the
..> Vandeman project. NIMBYism is, by definition, a single argument repeated
..> over and over. We have grown tired of trying to say the same thing in
..1000
..> different ways. Our future advertisting programs will use different
..> techniques; sometimes more mainstream and sometimes just as provocative.
..> Stay tuned.
..>
..> See you on the trails,
..> Gary Fisher
..
..If it were only true.

Dreamer. NOTHING mountain bikers say is true. You should know that by now.
Everyone else does.

..Greg
..

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

"Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 16:41:59 -0800, "G.T." <[email hidden]> wrote:

.
."Gary Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
.news:[email hidden]...
.> Press Release, Gary Fisher Corporation 2005/04/01
.>
.> After years of having fun, we have decided to finally come clean. As
most
.of
.> you have guessed by now, "Michael Vandeman" is a hoax. This virtual
.Internet
.> persona is a parody that the Gary Fisher mountain bike company made up
to
.> show just how foolish NIMBYs can be.
.>
.> At first, we intended Vandeman to be simple joke. Later, Vandeman
became
.a
.> marketing ploy. Potential bicyclists realized that only an idiot could
be
.> doing all that ranting and raving. Any sport opposed by idiots must be
.OK,
.> right?
.>
.> After years of spouting the same nonsense, we have decided to cease the
.> Vandeman project. NIMBYism is, by definition, a single argument
repeated
.> over and over. We have grown tired of trying to say the same thing in
.1000
.> different ways. Our future advertisting programs will use different
.> techniques; sometimes more mainstream and sometimes just as
provocative.
.> Stay tuned.
.>
.> See you on the trails,
.> Gary Fisher
.
.If it were only true.

Dreamer. NOTHING mountain bikers say is true. You should know that by now.
Everyone else does.

.Greg
.

Liar. EVERYONE does not know this. Some people may have that opinion, but
that's besides the point. There are plenty of people in the world that
haven't even heard of mountain biking so for them to "know" that mountain
bikers were liars is an impossibility. Liar.